BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 06:26 AM

Those prepared to carry out the terrorist outrages and the attacks have been around since 1970. They have flocked to any location where they think they can get away with their brand of murder and mayhem under the all encompassing banner of Jihad.

Their fight has got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "Palestine" or with Israel, nothing whatsoever to do with "liberal intervention", the "Arab Spring" had no external influences in Tunisia, just as it the "revolutions" in Egypt, Libya and Syria had no external influences. None had anything to do with Al-Qaeda, Afghanistan or with Iraq.

In Egypt there was the only ever the semblance of an "Arab Spring" type revolution, the Army always was in control just as they have always been in control since Nasser seized power.

The people of Libya watching events in Tunisia to the west and Egypt to the east saw their chance to press for greater freedom, the people of Syria saw the same news broadcasts and sought the same. Alas in their country's their rulers had different ideas, and we all know the results. The UN did empower action in Libya where Russia had no stake, but in Syria, Russia had it's only naval base in the Mediterranean to protect so the Russia veto was threatened against any UN Security Council Resolution affecting Assad and Syria.

IS presence in Iraq was down to the incompetent, corrupt and divisive rule of Nouri al-Malaki that was the only way IS could have swept back into the Sunni areas and provinces of Iraq, nothing to do with "liberal interventionism". In Syria they are merely taking advantage of the situation in a country that has become a failed state.

IS, it's presence and its ambitions are NOT our fault - Not by a long shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 07:26 AM

So are you saying that IS would be in Iraq had we left Saddam in charge? Just wondering. After all, al Qaeda didn't manage it when he was there, did they? Should we be discussing unintended consequences?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 08:32 AM

..I've been telling you that for years..

Indeed you have GeistInsanity, and all in aid if erecting a high wall of bullshit that you can sit on your self-satisfied arse behind & make snarky comments instead of doing anything worthwhile and/or working for positive change.

I suspect you're long out of the seventh grade; time to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 08:41 AM

their brand of murder and mayhem under the all encompassing banner of Jihad.

As opposed to the all-encompassing banners of Manifest Destiny, the "War on Terror", The British Empire, Zionism or a United Ireland?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 10:26 AM

Under his sectarian/secular guise Saddam WAS "IS" in Iraq, representing a minority Sunni Arab demographic holding down by repression the Kurds and the Shia Arab Majority in the country. Depending upon what figures you use and how you view the Iran/Iraq War for the 24 years of his "rule" Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist regime murdered on average somewhere between 154 and 282 Iraqi's every single day. For anyone interested in perspective of this reign of terror, the current civil war and unrest in Syria has killed some 220,000 people in Syria in almost 4 years. After Desert Storm the Shia Arabs in Southern Iraq rebelled and in less than two months Saddam had killed just over 200,000 of them - the DU munitions in and around Basra was fired then from the cannons of his Mil-24 "Hind" Helicopters that he had "conned" coalition forces into letting him fly in order to facilitate "humanitarian" missions.

Al-Qaeda in Iraq during Saddam's time? Well representatives from two Al-Qaeda supported groups Mullah Krekar's Ansar al-Islam, escaped from Afghanistan in 2001 and was set up in business by Saddam to foment trouble within Iraq's Kurdish areas and another "refugee" from Afghanistan, a wounded chap called Abu Musab al-Zarqawi whose sponsor in Iraq while he was receiving hospital treatment was none other that Saddam Hussein's son.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 10:46 AM

All irrelevant. Iraq under Saddam was to all intents and purposes a secular state. And it was a STATE. He was a nasty piece of work but a nasty piece of work in an entirely different way to IS. Your stuff about al Qaeda in Iraq is clutching at straws. One of the big lies that Bush relied on to justify his invasion. Dubya would have loved you to have been writing his scripts for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 11:02 AM

Dubya would have loved you to have been writing his scripts for him.

Perhaps he did have - at least when Lying Sack Cheney didn't have his hand up Dumbya's back.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 12:53 PM

Steve Shaw: "I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to discuss anything sensibly with people..."

We hold this truth to be inevitable!

Greg F. "Indeed you have GeistInsanity, and all in aid if erecting a high wall of bullshit that you can sit on your self-satisfied arse behind & make snarky comments instead of doing anything worthwhile and/or working for positive change.
I suspect you're long out of the seventh grade; time to grow up."

...another 'worthwhile' post, saying absolutely nothing, except another opportunity for Greggie to vent his frustrations for trying to be an ideologue..but with no fuel!

You two should address the issue, as others have, and contribute...it is in the sharing of IDEAS, or input from different sources, that paints a wider picture......

..if the mods weren't so 'politically biased' they might have told you, instead of embarrassing yourselves and their political 'inclinations', as well.

Whether or not it comes out WHO is training them...there is no doubt, who has supplied them!!!...the question is knowingly??....or by sheer ineptitude?

The Clintons have made a pile of money, in unauthorized, covert gun sales to Syria, through Libya.....it doesn't matter if they call themselves 'liberals' conservatives..or even patriots.., or you think they are 'liberals' or not....that is only for public consumption.....or comic relief!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 02:44 PM

I think I can say without fear or favour that I have never read a worthwhile contribution from you in any post you've ever put up here on any topic. I consider you to not be worth talking to, but I've just made this one exception in order to say that. Moving swiftly on...

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Cynical
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 03:11 PM

The Islamic State is much more of a problem for its neighbors than it is for the US. Chiefly for Syria and Iraq, which are under direct attack, but also for Russia and Iran -- Russia because its largest foreign naval base is in Syria (now that Crimea is not foreign), and Iran because it's closely allied with Iraq as the two big Shia countries. And that may not seem like such a bad thing to US leadership, since Russia and Iran are the two main leaders of the assault on the dollar as international reserve currency, now that Saddam and Gaddafi are dead.

There's a history of using the Sunni Arabs of the Fertile Crescent to keep rebels in line. They invaded Iran after the great setback and humiliation when the US-backed Shah was overthrown and the US embassy was occupied. Then they invaded Kuwait when the big US banks were all on the verge of collapse and the Kuwaiti royal family thought they didn't need US protection and moved their deposits to German and Japanese banks. Everyone knows the story of the US ambassador giving them the go-ahead to invade Kuwait, but most people assume that was just a mistake, a part of the Keystone Kops theory of US foreign policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 04:40 PM

1: " He was a nasty piece of work but a nasty piece of work in an entirely different way to IS."

Sorry in what way different? Both Saddam in his day and IS today threaten the stability of the region, both threatened their neighbours, both murdered civilians and engaged in ethnic cleansing, both engaged in the promotion of "state" sponsored terrorist acts in foreign countries - Sorry Steve Shaw there are lots of similarities, Saddam being in charge of a "STATE" as you put it with vast oil wealth just made him that little bit more dangerous

2: "Your stuff about al Qaeda in Iraq is clutching at straws. One of the big lies that Bush relied on to justify his invasion."

Not clutching at straws at all Steve, simple matter of record, Zarqawi of course is dead, killed in Iraq, his surviving followers after having been chased out of Iraq as a result of the "Sunni Awakening" and "The Surge" slipped over the border to hide out in Syria where one of Zarqawi's co-insurgent groups allied to his Al-Qaeda in Iraq was the Mujahideen Shura Council one of whose loyal Lieutenants was Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi current leader of IS.

Ansar al-Islam's leader is currently residing in Norway where he has just recently be forcibly relocated to to a remote part of the country for his own protection for praising those who carried out the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the attacks in Copenhagen. Mullah Krekar fled to Norway seeking political asylum his story and his presence in Iraq prior to the invasion in 2003 is all fairly well documented.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 15 - 08:22 PM

Take a look at wiki on Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda links allegations. Despite the most strident efforts of the most hawkish members of the Bush regime, no operational link between Saddam and al-Qaeda was found and, what's more, the ideological differences between them precluded such a link. Saddam opposed the 9-11 attack. Why is it that you always seem to want to twist history into a sort of rickety Heath Robinson version, "I'll change the facts to get my story to work even if it kills me", sort of thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 12:15 AM

Steve Shaw: "I think I can say without fear or favour that I have never read a worthwhile contribution from you in any post you've ever put up here on any topic."

Well considering that your fragile mind is protected in its eggshell of political ideology, which you don't understand, either, I don't think you are capable of much outside of its grasp....but it's OK....I didn't expect much comprehension from you anyway.

Steve Pshaw: "I consider you to not be worth talking to, but I've just made this one exception in order to say that. Moving swiftly on..."

Promise???


...That being said, let's move on....

Most of everything going on in the Mid-East, is NOT politically, nor religious based....those are the manipulative justifications the bankster/global/capitalist controllers use to disrupt the area for their perceived advantages. The Islamic factions have been warring for centuries..it was a most convenient cover story!

Methinks many of our wannabe 'astute ideologues', cannot differentiate between their idealisms, and financially structured profiteering, using the idealisms, but never really embracing them, yet hiding behind the 'illusion' of 'nationalism'.
If you could grasp that concept, you'd have a better clue, as to what and why recent events have gone the way they have.

Do any of you think that the leaders of ANY of the imperialistic co-optive, ideologues, when it comes time to 'expand', refer to the books from Lenin, Marx, Jefferson, Mao..or any of them ???....
Nope, they whip out their ledgers and figure out where and how to get the financial backing....at that point, it's the 'terms of the lender'.
When banking institutions compete, people die..lots of them. When the dying slows down, enough for 'peace negotiations', those 'negotiations' include the 'interests' of the investors.
Now is THAT too hard to understand???
In this case, it's the Mid-East oil.....or making it more profitable to drill elsewhere....in the biggest reserves in the world...and the U.S. is sitting on them. Make NO mistake, those same investors couldn't give a rat's ass about your perceived notions of nationalism, human rights, borders or how many mush be slaughtered, to meet their goals....they want control of resources and money,(as a tool to the 'power'). The only dupes who buy their sales-pitch, is those who refuse to THINK past what they want you to think...and argue about...as long as the focus isn't THEM!


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 02:06 AM

1: "Saddam opposed the 9-11 attack?????

He was the ONLY national leader and head of state in the world to publicly applaud it FFS - Not even Iran with its now long standing tradition of the Post-Friday call to prayer "Death to America" chants dating back to 1979 were stupid enough to do that.

As Wiki would appear to be your source de jour:

"Almost all Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. The leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included the leaders of Egypt (Hosni Mubarak), the Palestinian Authority (Yasser Arafat), Libya (Muammar Gaddafi), Syria (Bashar al-Assad), Iran (Mohamed Khatami) and Pakistan (Pervez Musharraf). The sole exception was Iraq, when the then-president Saddam Hussein, said of the attacks that "the American cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity".

2: "no operational link between Saddam and al-Qaeda was found"

I do not believe that I have ever said that such an "operational" link ever existed. But that is not what you originally said, which was there was no Al-Qaeda presence in Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion which was incorrect. In Afghanistan prior to the intervention of the US on the side of the Northern Alliance in October 2001, Al-Qaeda fostered and supported both Mullah Krekar's and Abu Mousa Zarqawi's groups and they both fled Afghanistan for Iraq in 2001/2002 where they were given shelter and support.

3: "and, what's more, the ideological differences between them precluded such a link."

Ever heard of the Charles Dudley Warner quote: "Politics makes strange bed-fellows"? Best example of all being Churchill & Stalin.

4: "Why is it that you always seem to want to twist history into a sort of rickety Heath Robinson version, "I'll change the facts to get my story to work even if it kills me", sort of thing?"

Well actually I don't Steve - that sort of thing I leave to you - I normally do not only offer my opinions and statements, I give my reasons for believing them and provide my sources and my references - you when confronted normally retreat behind the excuse of ignorance on the particular subject, best and most recent example of this being the First World War threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 02:17 AM

Thank you, Teribus, you were a lot more tactful than I would have been!!....but then Steve, along with his blind, zealot, 'intellectuals', does not seem to comprehend things that require logic...only propaganda, that preys on his lack of understanding, and manipulates their emotions....and they reason with their faulty ASS-umptions!
You can't teach a pig to sing....you end up wasting your time....and annoying the pig!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 04:29 AM

Tactful my fat botty. Saying something, anything, contrary for the sake of it, more like. You two make good bedfellows, much better than Winston and Joe. There's a guy in Baghdad reckons he's al Qaeda. There's a bloke down the chippy in Bude reckons he's Elvis.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 04:59 AM

The evidence is a bit more compelling than - "There's a guy in Baghdad reckons he's al Qaeda." - but there again when have you ever considered fact?

1: "Ansar al-Islam (Arabic: أنصار الإسلام‎ Anṣār al-Islām; Kurdish: ئەنسارولئیسلام Ensar ul-Îslam; "Helpers of Islam") was an insurgent group active in Iraq and Syria. It was established in Iraqi Kurdistan in 2001 as a Salafist Islamist movement that imposed a strict application of Sharia in villages it controlled around Biyara to the northeast of Halabja, near the Iranian border."

2: "Ansar al-Islam was formed in September 2001 from a merger of Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), led by Abu Abdullah al-Shafi'i, and a splinter group from the Islamic Movement of Kurdistan led by Mullah Krekar. Krekar became the leader of the merged Ansar al-Islam, which opposed an agreement made between IMK and the dominant Kurdish group in the area, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK). The group later made an allegiance to al-Qaeda and allegedly received direct funds from the terror network."

3: "Ansar al-Islam initially comprised approximately 300 men, many of them veterans of the Soviet-Afghan War, and a proportion being neither Kurd nor Arab."

4: "In February 2003, prior to the US 2003 invasion of Iraq, Paramilitary teams from the Special Activities Division (SAD) and the Army's 10th Special Forces Group entered Iraq and cooperated with Patriotic Union of Kurdistan Peshmerga to attack Ansar al-Islam. It resulted in the deaths of a substantial number of militants and the uncovering of a chemical weapons facility at Sargat. Sargat was the only facility of its type discovered in Iraq."

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 05:38 AM

Anything like that in Bude Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 07:35 AM

Plenty of 31-year-old "girls" like Ruzwana Bashir, Keith, with Oxford degrees, presidents of the Oxford Union and Fulbright Scholars from Harvard. Why, with "girls" like that, Keith, who needs women?

Oh, and there's Elvis al-Baghdadi down the chippy...

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 08:10 AM

" and there's Elvis al-Baghdadi down the chippy..." - Steve Shaw

- you when confronted you normally retreat behind the excuse of ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 08:44 AM

You two should address the issue,

Oh, but I am, Geist - the issue at question is your constant stream of BS.

it is in the sharing of IDEAS, or input from different sources

True- its supposed to be! But its not the the posting of nonsense, lies, half-truths, unsubstantiated accusations, idiotic ramblings & etc...

f the mods weren't so 'politically biased'

That's right, Geist - they're all out to getcha, getcha, getcha!! Best check under the bed, too.

If I may quite Steve Shaw:

"I think I can say without fear or favour that I have never read a worthwhile contribution from you in any post you've ever put up here on any topic. I consider you to not be worth talking to, but I've just made this one exception in order to say that. Moving swiftly on... "

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 09:12 AM

"One thing I will say is that it is impossible to say whether 9-11 would still have happened had Bush lost the election."

Lots of things seem to be "impossible to say" for you. Perhaps that is because you don't research your subjects carefully enough before making comment.

The "9/11 Attacks" were first proposed in 1996 - in that scenario there were supposed to have been twelve attacking aircraft all intercontinental flights with destinations in both the eastern and western seaboards of the USA. Osama bin Laden rejected this plan as:

- it would take too long to set up and train for.
- it would be too susceptible to security leaks
- it would be too vulnerable to discovery at the last minute because of changing security regimes and procedures.
- using intercontinental flights arriving at US airports would mean the aircraft would arrive with minimum fuel loads.

Osama bin Laden suggested targeting internal East coast to West coast flights as then with the targets in the eastern states of the USA the aircraft would be carrying almost full fuel load and it would give the US authorities less time to react. So Khaled Sheikh Mohammed was sent away to revise the plan, which he duly did arriving back with his 1998 plan that played out on the 11th September 2001, which Steve old son was never meant to be the date of the attack because Al-Qaeda hit another snag. The attacks were planned to occur in the last years of Bill Clinton's Presidency 1999 or 2000 (Why Clinton? Because he was the President who had caught and imprisoned those responsible for the 1993 WTC attack and the man who had ordered cruise missiles launched at Al-Qaeda camps in Sudan and in Afghanistan and who had attempted to assassinate Osama bin Laden)

The problem Al-Qaeda hit that delayed things had to do with Osama bin Laden's terrorists of choice not being up to the training and tightening visa restrictions for those coming to the USA from the middle-east. Osama bin Laden preferred to use Yemenis for his attacks, unfortunately those selected for flight training for KSM's grand production either weren't good enough pilots, or their english was too poor for them to be credible candidates to sit on a flight deck, so alternatives had to be found - the search found the men required in Germany (US entry Visas were not so difficult to obtain there) Mohammad Atta & Co flew to Afghanistan and passed selection by Osama bin Laden in November 1999 and from that point the clock started to count down - the attack had nothing to do with George W. Bush, the attack had a hell of a lot to do with the failed 1993 WTC attack and the fatwas issued by bin Laden in 1996 and 1998 - so as far as Al-Qaeda was concerned they were most certainly going to happen irrespective of who was President of the United States of America.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 10:00 AM

Steve, she was telling the story of a girl of 10.
Her young self.
That is why I said you should read the girl's story, instead of just ridiculing her for mentioning community leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 10:22 AM

Sure, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 11:17 AM

Sure.
She was describing her experience of abuse as a ten year old girl, and you did seize on her mention of community leaders to indulge in your usual ridicule.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 01:46 PM

Oh for goodness sake. The story went on for years after this young woman had been a ten-year-old girl. You referred to this 31-year-old woman, who's achieved more in her life already than most people you'll ever meet, as a "girl". Just own up for once, give us an "oops, my mistake" and stop wriggling! And, as a matter of fact, I'm in awe of her courage and her achievements. Doesn't stop me wondering who your community leader is, though.

Here's how Keith referred to this 31-year-old woman. Whole post:

Before you ridicule this girl, at least read her story.

Her story of bringing an abuser to justice went on well into her womanhood. Long after she'd stopped being a "girl", Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 03:01 PM

OK so why did you seize on the community leader thing.
She mentioned them.
I never have.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 03:21 PM

Teribus, I thank you, again, for your research into the subject matter being discussed!...BTW, you might want to mention just who it was that TRAINED Bin Laden!!...as well as other, (long list) of the head operatives of several of the groups!..also the leaving of all the equipment...was it deliberate??...or just an inept, 'failed policy'.

Another BTW, how come Hilary is accepting massive financial support from regimes that are repressive to women's rights????...and mega corporations who ship our jobs to China??....Is anyone dumb enough to believe there isn't a quid pro quo involved here??...Just WHO IS she 'representing'?????...and being as she is PRETENDING to be a 'liberal', is this the policies that the liberals support???...or just the 'so-called liberals'????

Gullible, gullible, gullible!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 03:25 PM

Say Goodnight, Geist.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 03:27 PM

Thank you for your 'intelligent' response....NEXT!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 04:48 PM

OK so why did you seize on the community leader thing.
She mentioned them.
I never have.

Oh, for chrissake. You chose to quote the section in which she mentioned it. You didn't have to do that but you did. There was tons of stuff you could have quoted but you chose to quote the bit in which she mentioned community leaders. So I want to know who your community leader is, Keith. Or do you think that we white Christian majority don't need such things? Why did you quote a section that you didn't go along with, then, Keith? Because you DID go along with it, that's why. Dunno about you, but I tend to avoid quoting things I don't go along with. So why do you think that these Muslims need community leaders to speak for them, while we don't, Keith? Unless you think we do, in which case tell me who your community leader is, Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 05:06 PM

Steve Pshaw: "So why do you think that these Muslims need community leaders to speak for them, while we don't, Keith? Unless you think we do, in which case tell me who your community leader is, Keith!"

Hey, Barrack Hussein Obama was/is a community leader....and they aren't listening to him, either....along with most of America......

Wink!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 05:40 PM

Unless you think

Therein lies the problem, Steve - he doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 06:04 PM

Correct, Greg, and, as for guffers with his "wink", he accidentally used the third vowel instead of the first.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 06:11 PM

I chose that bit because it was relevant to refuting Jim's accusations.
I have never, ever, referred to community leaders.
She did and you attacked it.

This is a continuation of the closed thread.
That closure gave you the last word over me, but still you had to start it again on a totally unrelated thread.

You attack me for calling a young woman, describing her childhood abuse, as a girl.
You attack her for referring to "community leaders."
You show no compassion for her, and other kid's, plight at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 06:20 PM

There is no shortage of groups/businesses able to train paramilitary or military troops. The questions that need asking and answering is "Where's the money coming from?" and "Cui bono?"

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 15 - 10:11 PM

EXACTLY!

I wonder if Hilary's 'missing E-mails' will provide answers.........that any of our local 'so-called liberals' would dismiss, and claim that the reason she did it was to expose another 'right wing conspiracy'...and to champion the 'war on women' because they're all her critics are all 'racist homophobics' and bigots!

Frankly that old tired, worn out bullshit is BORING!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 02:40 AM

"you might want to mention just who it was that TRAINED Bin Laden!!...as well as other, (long list) of the head operatives of several of the groups!..also the leaving of all the equipment...was it deliberate??...or just an inept, 'failed policy'."

If the inference here is that it was the US via the CIA or any other agency then that is way off the mark and a complete and utter myth according to the Pakistani Brigadier who was assigned to the outfit Osama bin Laden worked with during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan by Pakistan's ISI.

All disbursement of funds, weapons and training for the various Mujahideen Groups operating in Afghanistan's various Provinces was handled by Pakistan's ISI and the Pakistani Army - that was the cast-iron condition for Pakistan's co-operation laid down from the very start by Pakistan's President Zia ul Haq:

1: "The program relied heavily on the Pakistani President Mohammad Zia ul-Haq, who had a close relationship with Wilson. His Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was an intermediary for funds distribution, passing of weapons, military training and financial support to Afghan resistance groups. Along with funding from similar programs from Britain's MI6 and SAS, Saudi Arabia, and the People's Republic of China, the ISI armed and trained over 100,000 insurgents between 1978 and 1992. They encouraged the volunteers from the Arab states to join the Afghan resistance in its struggle against the Soviet troops based in Afghanistan.

To put that last bit into perspective, some 250,000 Afghan Mujahideen fought against the Soviet occupation, while the number of volunteers from the Arab states numbered ~2,500. Osama bin Laden's role was in logistics and providing a base for those volunteers and he spent his time in Pakistan, his only incursion into Afghanistan being right towards the end for a photo-op.

2: "According to Peter Bergen, writing in Holy War, Inc., no Americans trained or had direct contact with the mujahideen ( Source: Bergen, Peter. Holy War, Inc. New York: Free Press, 2001. Pg. 66). The skittish CIA had fewer than 10 operatives in the region because it "feared it would be blamed, like in Guatemala" (Source: The New Republic, "TRB FROM WASHINGTON, Back to Front" by Peter Beinart, 8 October 2001.). Civilian personnel from the U.S. Department of State and the CIA frequently visited the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area during this time, and the US contributed generously to aiding Afghan refugees."

Funding for the Mujahideen's efforts, training and arms came from three main sources 40% from the USA; 40% from Saudi Arabia; 10% from the United Arab Emirates & 10% from Pakistan & others including the UK and the People's Republic of China - Strange that that being the case the only contributor you ever hear about splashed across the media and contained in all the conspiracy theories is the 40% contribution from the USA, the the major 60% contribution by others is studiously ignored.

3: "there is no evidence that the CIA had direct contact with Osama Bin Laden - US funding was directed to Afghan Mujahedin groups." This is backed up by bin Laden's Pakistani Liaison Officer who stated that bin Laden used his own money, or money that came from verifiable Islamic sources, aid from all other sources was refused.

4: "According to Christopher Andrew and Vasily Mitrokhin, there is "no support" in any "reliable source" for "the claim that the CIA funded bin Laden or any of the other Arab volunteers who came to support the mujahideen." (Source: The Mitrokhin Archive II: The KGB and the World (Penguin, 2006), p579n48.)

5: "Peter Bergen writes that "the real problem is not that the CIA helped bin Laden during the 1980s, but that the Agency simply had no idea of his possible significance until the bin Laden unit was set up within the CIA in January 1996." - (Source: Peter Bergen (20 January 2006). The Osama bin Laden I Know: An Oral History of al Qaeda's Leader. Free Press. ISBN 978-0-7432-9592-5. Retrieved 25 April 2013.) - Backed up of course by the fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden that declared war on the USA and the west in 1996 and again in the 1998 fatwa in which he declared open season on every American man, woman and child irrespective of where they were in the world:

"We -- with Allah's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in Allah and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it."

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 04:41 AM

"Steve Shaw - 10 Mar 15 - 06:20 AM

I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to discuss anything sensibly with people who wilfully misread and misrepresent."

Care to point out anything that I have willfully or otherwise misread or misrepresented in what I have written?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 05:59 AM

No. Life's too short. Just stop doing it and save us both a ton of energy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 07:02 AM

Sure Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 07:24 AM

Steve Shaw - "when confronted you normally retreat".

Don't make comments and pronouncements about the contributions of others unless you are prepared to fully explain and defend your point of view - unfortunately for you but fortunately for the rest of us - you are not in your classroom now, you do not control what is permitted to be said and what is not permitted to be said.

So I will ask you again:

"Care to point out anything that I have willfully or otherwise misread or misrepresented in what I have written?"

An admission that you cannot and that your comment was well wide of the mark will do - but I do not think that you have either the honesty or integrity to do that, and I know that you are simply too damn lazy to do the research - so I shall not be holding my breath for a reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 07:41 AM

Frankly that old tired, worn out bullshit is BORING!

Absolutely, Geist - but then, you still keep posting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 09:05 AM

All I had to do, Teribus, was wait for your next post. Accusing me of trying to control what people here say is a classic misrepresentation of everything I stand for and everybody here, bar you and possibly Keith, knows it. The fact that I refuse to trawl through acres of threads at your behest means, at worst, that I don't feel like getting into one of your tedious and endless quote/unquote games and, at best, I know you're going to keep doing it so all I have to do is wait. As a matter of fact, if you do a little trawling yourself you'll find that I have frequently picked you up for misrepresentation. It's your modus operandi, in fact. It tends not to get me anywhere so if you'll excuse me I'll decline the present invitation.

In addition, your post is replete with unnecessary and gratuitous insults, not for the first time (I'm not bothered). Are you going to deny that as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 10:31 AM

"All I had to do, Teribus, was wait" - Complete and utter B*ll*cks School Teacher.

This is NOT telling somebody to shut up and keep quiet?:

"No. Life's too short. Just stop doing it and save us both a ton of energy."

Just can't be bothered to defend your rather poorly thought out comments

"In addition, your post is replete with unnecessary and gratuitous insults"

Really?? This one is because you rather invited by them by your accusation.

C'mon just tell us why if Al Gore had been in the White House 9/11 would never have happened. Tell us all why and how it was all George W Bush's fault even although it had been in the planning for over four years and at the time of the attacks of the 11th September, 2001 George W. Bush had only been President of the United States for roughly eight months.

Thing is you cannot do that but do not have the honesty to admit it - You really do have some neck calling Keith A, at least when he has been in error Keith A has had the decency, integrity and honour to put his hands up for it.

Give us solid cast-iron evidence that Ansar al-Islam did not set up shop in Iraq in 2001 and that US Special Forces did not find their chemical weapons facility at Sargat when they raided their base there in February 2003. Tell us where Abu Musab al-Zarqawi went for hospital treatment when he escaped from Afghanistan via Iran in 2002, provide us with proof that Zarqawi had no connections to Al-Qaeda whilst in Afghanistan.

So far I have not misread or misrepresented anything - as you have accused me of - simple matter of putting up your evidence of it - if you can't or don't - then it would appear that it does not exist - your "Can't be bothered, too much trouble", doesn't cut it, it is what it is a limp excuse to cover an even limper and groundless statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 10:37 AM

" your "Can't be bothered, too much trouble", doesn't cut it, it is what it is a limp excuse to cover an even limper and groundless statement."

Nothing new there.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 10:48 AM

"All I had to do, Teribus, was wait" - Complete and utter B*ll*cks School Teacher.

This is NOT telling somebody to shut up and keep quiet?:

No. Can't you read plain English?

"No. Life's too short. Just stop doing it and save us both a ton of energy."

Just can't be bothered to defend your rather poorly thought out comments

Your take, not mine. I did explain.

"In addition, your post is replete with unnecessary and gratuitous insults"

Really?? This one is because you rather invited by them by your accusation.

How lame. I smell guilt. Can't you post without insulting? Not impressive and not much of a tactic.

Now show me where I said 9-11 was "all Bush's fault". Or shall we just let that one stand as yet another example of why I don't need to trawl for "evidence" as to how you serially misrepresent?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 11:12 AM

Oops: got two lines the wrong way round there.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 11:24 AM

Teribus, with all due respect, (for real), there are conflicting reports of the funding and training...so I checked it out..and found these . You may wish to review them and compare notes. That being said, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that both sides of this issue have conflicting reports....both sides are 'interesting'.

Regards!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is training ISIS the US Army
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Mar 15 - 11:52 AM

>i>"One thing I will say is that it is impossible to say whether 9-11 would still have happened had Bush lost the election" - Steve Shaw

The 9/11 attacks had SFA to do with the 2000 Presidential election - You in the above statement seem to suggest that the two things were linked somehow and that the deciding factor that you find impossible to make a statement on depended upon who won or lost that election. Operational planning for the 9/11 attacks were two years old before the Presidential Candidates were nominated for election by their respective political parties. After the revised plan was approved it was a racing certainty that the attack would be made - no degree of doubt whatsoever - No misrepresentation there at all.

So OK I've asked once I will ask again why do you suggest different outcomes were a possibility had the result of the election been other than it was?