BS: why marriage works

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 05:26 AM

We don't push past the need to pray and reflect in order to 'settle every disagreement before the sun goes down.'

We are mature enough to know that some of the biggies need time, and we trust each other to hold the matter until it can be discussed fruitfully, with insight. Until that process works itself through, we speak love, and get on with those things in which we partner well both at home and in ministry. Conflict need not preclude harmonious serving of others. We don't fight. We give each other the gift of time to think things over thoroughly.

We also discovered early on that we are never in the black, bitter place of rage or despair at the same time. So when one is short, the other can be the tall one-- and lift up the one struggling, into the Light.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 11:38 AM

In the old, old days, marriage was a matter of inheritance, not love or morality.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 12:30 PM

"Inheritance and morality?"......don't think many young people think about that when getting married for the first time, marriage has always been recognised as the best way of bringing up children.

Providing in most cases a secure environment.

As I have pointed out on many occasions, children and extended family encourage morality. The new "monogamy" of "open marriages" encourages promiscuity and ill health....there is no morality and society is in danger.....Children become an encumbrance.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Many children of parents who "stayed together for the children" wish they hadn't.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 01:40 PM

I ain't "tied the knot" yet, but I am workin' on it. They just gotta legalize Chimp-human marriage, that's all, and we are good to go.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:34 PM

"Monogamy" of "open marriages"? (His"")

No. Please don't explain.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:41 PM

"...inheritance, not love or morality"?

A false dichotomy, surely. Not mutually exclusive in any way. A good marriage has surely always contained elements of both aspects, the practical and the emotional, in differing proportions as every couple is unique and will establish its own priorities.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:44 PM

My parents 'stayed together for the children' and theirs was not a happy marriage, for them, or for the children. I divorced my children's father after four years as the 'sacrament of marriage' had done nothing to stop him having at least two affairs. I raised two children single handed for about ten years, both of whom have become adults to be proud of.

My son never did marry the mother of his child but did not stray outside the relationship. It is probable that his partner may not be able to say the same. That relationship ended when she physically and verbally abused me. He did marry his subsequent partner and I have the best Daughter-in-law possible. My lovely granddaughter is loved and cared for by her father, even though they do not live in the same home.

My daughter is still married to her husband of nearly sixteen years and that has produced my beloved grandson.

I can say that my family has encompassed most of the ways of being together and I can't say that one has the moral advantage over the others. My children are well adjusted adults, their children are bright and well adjusted, in spite of the difference in upbringing. Marriage does not automatically bring about morality and, from my experience, non marriage does not remove either that or good health, either physical or mental.

I don't think that anyone can say that any particular type of relationship will work for everyone. At my fourth attempt I am now in a very good relationship that I think would have worked even if we had not married. Human beings are all different, what works for one won't suit another.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 03:00 PM

Well said Jacqui it is all to easy to make blanket statements forgetting as your post points out that we are not carbon copies but delightfully different individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:08 PM

marriage has always been recognised as the best way of bringing up children.

In Victorian times, when most children were born in wedlock, the incidence of child abuse was far higher than it is now. In fact, you don't need to go that far back to see the same statistics. Abused children from bad parents in bad marriages are probably in a higher percentage than children born to people who stay with each other of of love rather than because of a piece of paper or few words mumbled by a vicar. Rose coloured specs I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:18 PM

There is no excuse for selfishness where children are concerned and I never claimed that ALL marriages work, but as a template for making a decent job of life for you and your children....marriage is definitely the best for most people.

Unfortunately the personal rights agenda seems to be winning, single parent families abound, social services are swamped.

Sort yourselves out .....or else!

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 06:33 PM

I do agree that we are all different and that relationships need Only the mutual love and respect of couPles to succeed. We are, above all, respectful of
One anOther. To us, that is huge.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: meself
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 08:17 PM

["like Dan Strong said in Little Big Man" - "Dan Strong" = Chief Dan George?]

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 02:46 AM

"personal rights agenda"

Even a nice thread about happy things eh? He has to pollute it with his malignant judgemental nonsense. His whole life, judging by what he puts on Mudcat seems to be someone else's fault.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 04:59 AM

There is no doubt that society has changed dramatically during the lifetime of most of the members of this forum and there have been changes for the better AND for the worse. The destruction of extended family has been one of the most negative changes.

Anyone who cannot see that there is an agenda at work, instigated by the socioeconomic system we now employ, is a fool.

The "personal rights agenda" did not come about by accident, and it has developed to the extent that now "personal freedom" trumps even the wellbeing of our own children....with increased prosperity the extended family has almost vanished, in return we want and expect everything which makes the wheels of industry turn.

Conned again?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:18 AM

yeh right. i stand corrected. sometimes i sit down. versatile in that way....

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:21 AM

Would both of you please leave this thread I know neither of you is capable of understanding the concept of nice but this thread is about fun and nice things. I do think the various flowers sound lovely,I must look at them more closely when I have a minute

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:39 AM

Marriage can be very "nice" indeed. Most of the people round here, think it is "nice".

If you don't want comments on marriage, why put the word in the thread title.....I know what was intended by the OP, but most people who have responded seem to think comments on the institution of marriage and how it works were being encouraged?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:52 AM

Apropos of nothing in particular but always brings a smile to my face

Mawiage

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:00 AM

Talking of the opening post, BTW, I think it was about people who do things for each other without being asked. It is not marriage that brings this about but a closeness and instinctive knowledge of what the other wants or needs. I read the point much more as this is one of the things that helps marriages, or any long term relationship, to work rather than it being a state of affairs that can only happen in wedlock. I am sure leeneia did not intend it to be a diatribe against modern values. Far from it.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:09 AM

Pots and kettles!

"Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Megan L - PM
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Many children of parents who "stayed together for the children" wish they hadn't.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:16 AM

Every marriage has "tough times", at these times it's easy to walk away, but personal responsibility towards ones family should take precedent.....in almost every case the problems are overcome and the children are the balm that heals.

Children need to see reality, that their parents are human, but love and security are there for them whenever it is required.
Marriage takes us beyond self interest......that is the major reason why redefinition is dangerous and harmful to society.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:51 AM

Akenaton, you've banged on about children in six posts on this page. It's clear what your agenda is. This is a nice thread that doesn't need a drip-dose of poison. Might I politely invite you to knock it off?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:56 AM

Anyway, Mrs Steve and I have been married for 38 years and we make a good team. I'm not going to ask her whether she agrees... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:59 AM

From a local rag last month: A Northamptonshire couple, celebrating their diamond wedding anniversary, say the key to a lasting relationship is about mastering two words - 'yes dear'.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 07:18 AM

Megan. When you piss off, will you take Akenaton with you?

This thread is about doing nice things for each other. Marriage works nicely. So does cohabiting and even one-night stands if nice things include Gimp masks and a feather.

The children distraction on this thread is just that. You don't have to be married to enjoy bringing up children. You don't need to get biologically capable either. Sadly, there have always been many children needing a place to grow up in a loving family environment. Couples who are married or otherwise who may not for a variety of reasons have children of their own or indeed don't want any can still do nice things for each other. The longer you grow older together the more these nice things become appreciated and hit the right spot.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 08:45 AM

Outsiders setting down rules as to what constitutes or should constitute partnerships/marriages is every bit as nonsensical as the old practices of enforced marriage - it is no business of anybody's other than the couple (or however many) concerned - who gives anybody the right to decide of the details of partnerships - especially not the State or the Church.
It is of little surprise that one of the advocates of outside interference is a practicing homophobe.
"at these times it's easy to walk away"
Sure it is - an abused wife should hang on in there and continue to get battered "for the sake of the family" - that was the advice handed out regularly by the Church up to the point it began to lose its influence - dangerous up to the point of being lethal.
Marriage is what it says on the label "the tie that binds" - if you're into bondage, fine.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:08 AM

Steve, I believe that marriage for most people is primarily about the raising of family....a lot of people, even here don't bother till the first child arrives, then the commitments are made.

No poison no agenda, just facts. Of course there are those who need some verification of commitment to one another, but I have never felt the need of that and I do not believe it works or is beneficial especially if the religious aspect is missing.

Marriage is about the whole family not "self"

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM

Did I miss something......who was advocating outside interference ?. Meself, I think that there is a far more casual attitude towards marriage, that is not good for society, or for kids. I am not talking about battered partners sticking it out, but normal arguments and problems that at one time most people worked through, but more often now lead to a parting of the ways......esp , if someone else more desirable comes along.   But I am not advocating interference, just expressing an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:49 AM

Whether to marry, or whether to have children in a marriage is surely a personal choice-and, IMO, it seems puzzling why it would be the business of anyone else?


Childless marriage-another perspective 

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:13 AM

Steve, I believe that marriage for most people is primarily about the raising of family....a lot of people, even here don't bother till the first child arrives, then the commitments are made.


The first part of that is predicated on your known prejudiced intolerance of gay marriage. The second part is incomprehensible. It's a nice thread, and it's about time you butted out of it unless you have something nice to say.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,Bizibod
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:40 AM

Would you chaps do us a favour and bugger off back to the spoiled and sniping Jeremy Clarkson thread ?

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:44 AM

Many people who marry don't want children. Mrs Musket and I being an example. I have two grand lads, and more recently a daughter in law and a wonderful granddaughter from my first marriage. But my marriage is about us. Not children and having them wouldn't make it any better or worse.

Many people have children who don't bother with marriage. Marriage and children are mutually exclusive for many people.

If you want children you don't need to be married and if you are married you don't need to be biologically capable.

Why is this insistence on children part of this thread? Irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:56 AM

Absolutely. Tolerance means that you think that couples having children or not is entirely their own choice, free from moral hectoring from people with odd notions. Intolerance means imposing your archaic and narrow-minded opinions on people when it's none of your business. I'm sorry, Bizibod, but this person has a long track record of displaying prejudice in this matter. We can tell him like it is or we can let him carry on and ruin the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:57 AM

I came in late night last from fishing and picked up some souvlaki and baklava to surprise my love with from her favorite Greek restaurant. When I got home she had made me risi and bisi from my favorite veggie cookbook, though she had never done it before and even added a mushroom medley which made it very special. We've been together almost 12 years, are not married, have separate finances and residences but spend every night together when we're both in town. Takes all kinds.
She is the most moral person I know and being married would not add or detract from that. What a silly notion.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 11:38 AM

What a lovely post, gillymor. That just about sums up why a relationship works, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:08 PM

Mrs Steve and I have just returned from a walk on the cliffs. We're having a cup of tea. She's ironing and I'm just about to cook some veg (I grew the purple spouting) to go with the boeuf en daube I cooked yesterday. I don't agree with ironing and I would never iron anything if it were left to me. The daube is going to taste very nice though, about half an hour from now. We'll watch Poldark later and she's secretly hoping that Ajdan will take his shirt off. She's secretly hoping I'll leave mine on.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Aidan

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:23 PM

I was married for 20 years, and have now lived common law for a similar number-they seem pretty much the same to me (minus the document) -except for both of us making a wiser choice in the latter relationship.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:36 PM

OK, the spirit of the thread.

Mrs Musket looked on indulgently this lunchtime whilst I had a try out (by appointment) of the Apple Watch at the store at Meadowhall. She pre ordered and bought me one on the opening morning.

She can't understand the attraction but knew it would make me rather happy.

Can't wait to get delivery...

I then drove us to our old local pub as we were near where we used to live and offered to drive as she drank with old friends, then when we got home I made a lasagne from scratch (pasta mangle still has novelty value) and I just put it in the oven a few mins ago.

Later, we will cuddle up with choccies and watch Indian Bloody Summer,as I tell her of course I enjoy watching it. (Just opened a nice 2002 Rioja so mellowing by the minute.)

Some swine cancelled the rest of the Top Gear series so nothing else to bloody watch I suppose.

That's love, as they say.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 02:34 PM

Gotta be up at the crack of doom tomorrow so we're making today a non-boozing day and raising a glass tomorrow. I have a very nice Italian lamb stew in the fridge left over from last night that we can have tomorrow. Yeah, think Rioja with lamb...

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 04:51 PM

what about people who can't have children -like us - married for 44 years.

for a lot of us kids are nowt to do with marriage.

isn't it up to us all to find out what suits us? and respect each others choices. not all marriages are the same.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:42 PM

well, the expected end of the Clarkson thread happened, sometime while I was writing a post !.
tend to agree that it is not having kids that make a marriage, though when or if kids arrive, seems some folks want to put their relationship on a more committed basis.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:50 PM

Strikes me that it would be far better to be fully committed (not necessarily married) before contemplating having children in the first place. Apart from that, what Al says. The world has changed in the last thirty or forty years and the backwoodsmen had better learn to live with it. With apologies to Backwoodsman.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Musket
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 06:06 PM

Bizibod. What a self explanatory moniker.

Let's see now.. You go to the thread about thinking all songs are Irish if they happen to be Scottish, I'll volunteer for the closed Clarkson thread, Al can go to most threads bless him, Steve can go to a cookery thread and someone else can go to hell.

The lasagne was excellent by the way, the wine nice and just about to make Mrs Musket a hot chocolate, take the alleged greyhound round the turbary and settle in bed with the old kindle.

Life is good,except for the American gentleman in the Apple Store today. Reminded me of someone....

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:18 PM

Steve, your joke about shirts really made me laugh.

Today the DH and I went to a special showing of 'Singing in the Rain,' the musical with Gene Kelly, Debbie Reynolds and Donald O'Connor. But they removed the orchestral soundtrack and substituted our symphony orchestra. It was enjoyable, but I did wish my seat was not in the second row - it was all a little too powerful.   

Seeing it on the big screen made me realize how expressive Debbie could be without lapsing into hamminess.

Mostly I went for the DH's sake, because he loves to watch dancing.
----------
The flowers are coming up nicely. There are scores of portulaca seedlings, and four seedlings of the Siberian dianthus, each one glowing like a tiny emerald.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 03:52 AM

Singing in the Rain - one of our favourite movies.

only recently through the magic of the internet discovered the identity of the beautiful little blond dancer in Oklahoma.....

http://www.wawyckoff.com/Lizzie/Intro

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:03 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:50 PM

Strikes me that it would be far better to be fully committed (not necessarily married) before contemplating having children in the first place. Apart from that, what Al says. The world has changed in the last thirty or forty years and the backwoodsmen had better learn to live with it. With apologies to Backwoodsman."

Absolutely no apologies necessary, Steve - I'm in complete agreement with your post.

And 'Backwoodsman' is just a nom-de-plume, not a descriptor. Those on here who know me can attest to the fact that I'm a fairly cosmopolitan kinda guy - hell, I even went to fackin' Landon this past weekend! 😃😃

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 04:28 AM

Indeed - I can attest Backwoodsman is a boulevardier of note, could have stepped out from A Free Man in Paris.

Subject: RE: BS: why marriage works
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 07:46 AM

I'll take that as a condiment, Al! 😀