BS: Headlights on while driving in day

Subject: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST,Jenny
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 09:16 PM

I am in Southern, California and I have noticed over the last few years that many drivers are driving with their headlights on during the day when weather is clear, bright and very sunny! Not close to dusk/evening hours at all.

I'm not referring to days that are overcast, inclement weather when having the headlight on would make sense during the day.

This is something I never used to see but have noticed it for a few years now that drivers have their headlights on all the time. Not all drivers are doing this but many are (all types of cars.) There is no law in the California Motor Vehicle guide that requires drivers to drive with their headlights on during bright sunny days so it is just the driver's choice to do this of course.

So I was wondering why all of a sudden that people are doing this now, (only in recent years.)?

I could see if there were visual problems like overcast, cloudy days, rainy days (like the weather today.)

I don't see how having the headlights on all the time, is of any advantage "to be seen" under weather that is daylight, bright and sunny which is that way mostly all summer long here. 90 to 100 degree weather on many days and not a cloud in the sky but headlights on many cars.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 09:37 PM

Is there a musical answer to this? You are the sunshine of my life? Bright Eyes? Should this not be "below the line"?

Don't know about American cars, but more and more UK cars now have "daytime driving lights" (not headlights) just to make them more visible. and most motorcyclists drive with their lights on all the time, again to make sure they are seen by other drivers.

First encountered "daytime driving lights" in a hire car in Canada in 1992: the rationale given was that you could then see approaching vehicles a long way off on those interminable long straight roads.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST,Jenny
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 09:43 PM

No, not musical. I typed in BS at the front of my sentence on my post so that is would be placed in the non-musical section.

I don't know how you are supposed to have your post put there other then typing BS: in front of your subject (which is what I did)

Did I do it wrong? I didn't mean for it to be in the music related posts. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 09:53 PM

This has been around for at least 20 years. Many cars are set up with their headlights on when the ignition is on.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 10:22 PM

Hi, Jenny -
On the page for starting a new thread, there's a dropdown menu of thread tags that you can select from. But if you do it wrong, don't worry. We moderators will fix it and not mind a bit.

There are many California highways, especially busy two-lane highways that are designated "daylight safety sections," and drivers are required to have their headlights on round-the-clock in those sections. I was told by a police office that headlights are not required in such areas if the care has running lights in front. I have not been able to find that in writing, however. California also has a fairly new law that requires drivers to have their headlights on whenever they have their windshield wipers on.

My understanding is that studies have shown that cars are far more visible with their headlights on, even during daylight hours, so manufacturers have been encouraged to have some sort of daytime running lights.

-Joe Offer-
retired federal investigator
Applegate, Placer County, California

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 10:42 PM

Even in the 1970s my employer (the U.S. Forest Service) insisted that we have our headlights on during any time we were driving. Day or night. I have continued to followed that practice, but in my last 2 vehicles there was a "dayrunner" setting so the lights would be on during the day and come on brighter automatically after dark. What I learned recently is that the dayrunner headlights at night aren't as bright as if you actually turn on the headlights, but they are adequate for most urban driving (where there are streetlights).

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 10:58 PM

I have never seen the real justification for this. I DO follow the clear & obvious rule that lights should be on whenever it's raining & wipers are running... and for 30 minutes before sundown. I use my lights to do something that requires extra light... not to 'make my car more visible'... if it is bright daylight, my care IS visible.

I suspect this is one of those "well.. it 'might' be something good, so let's do it.." ideas. Having lights on in daylight is for funerals and for emergency signaling...etc. If everyone does it, what is left for special circumstances.... turning them off?

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Bugsy
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 11:34 PM

The reason offered here in Australia is that when driving on roads that are tree lined or where there are intermittant structures beside country roads, cars can become less visible in their shadows as they through them. They ran a very good TV road safety commercial in Western Australia bsically showing "Now you see me, Now you don't" the result being that many drivers, including me, now switch our headlights on as a matter of course when we start our cars.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST,Jenny
Date: 15 Sep 15 - 11:38 PM

Thanks, Joe Offer for your input. Oh, I forgot to mention that I am seeing the headlights on during the day on surface streets,(non-highway roads,) in California.
I don't drive freeways but I imagine the headlights are on there too but it is only on surface streets, even small residential streets where I am seeing the headlights on during the day. (the local areas where I drive.) I just didn't see this very often a few years ago, unless they were an emergency vehicle, etc. (as guest Bill D. mentioned in his post) which does make a lot sense. I agree completely with what Bill says and to quote "If everyone does it, what is left for special circumstances ...turning them off?"

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 01:40 AM

Motor cyclists use them to make themselves more visible, and they object to their general use because it defeats their efforts.

Using headlights burns more fuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:14 AM

Driving with headlights on does NOT use more fuel - that's an old-wives tale.

The lights are supplied with power from the battery, not direct by the alternator. The alternator is turning 100% of the time, independent of the electrical load on the vehicle electrical system. A normal regulator in automotive applications doesn't have a clutch of any kind. Increased electrical load doesn't equate to increased friction or force req'd to turn the alternator.

Daytime running-lights were introduced in Sweden in the '70s, IIRC. They are now pretty much universal throughout Europe, and the Jeep I rented in Canada this summer had them.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: BobL
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 03:27 AM

Not strictly true, Backwoodsman - the torque needed to turn the alternator, friction apart, is directly proportional to the load current. Although I'd be surprised if the extra 10 amps makes any noticeable difference to normal fuel consumption.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 03:31 AM

"Driving with headlights on burns more fuel" That reminds me of an entertaining thread I get periodically that claims -apparently seriously - that solar panels are making the sun dimmer. :)

I too drive with headlights on- in Oregon they demonstrated fairly conclusively that human brains register the presence or proximity of a vehicle with lights on more quickly than those without. Also, as Joe O observed, many sections of a number of highways, especially those that have had more than their share of vehicular accidents are required by law to turn on their headlights. I can think of two sections right off the bat: in Oregon a 15 or 20 mile section of the Coast highway and in Alaska, the Old Seward highway out of Anchorage toward Alyeska.

One thing that does bug me though is when a vehicle has their lights on high beam in the daytime. It may make other drivers take particular notice of them but it hurts my eyes and irritates me.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 04:35 AM

I agree with Ebbie. There was research showing visibility to other drivers is better with the lights on, even in the daytime.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 05:41 AM

Agreed with Ebbie - also about failure to dip. And then of course there are idiots who think that fog lights help - they don't because of their angle and placement. Except in conditions of poor visibility all they do is increase glare and impair the ability of other drivers to see the road. And the same goes for rear foglights. Bah!

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Megan L
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 06:23 AM

Just be grateful they turn them on here we have the opposite problem they don't turn them on because it might waste the battery.makes driving home in the grimlins interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 06:45 AM

It is not an old wives' tale but a basic law of physics.
The (incandescent)lamps are at least 50w each, so turning them on requires an extra 100 J of energy per second from somewhere, plus extra because of inefficient conversion.

You will burn more fuel for any given speed.
Anything drained from the battery will be replaced, again by burning more fuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 08:09 AM

Oh buggerbuggerbugger - I'm forced to admit I agree with Bunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 08:20 AM

Don't fight it BWM.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 08:24 AM

Estimates on the internet seem to centre at about 1%

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 08:26 AM

Yep, 0.5 to 1%, from what I've read.
Even as a pensioner, 1% extra cost of my diesel bothers me not one jot. Small price to pay for improved safety.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 08:49 AM

'Daytime running lights', which are much dimmer than regular headlights, have been a standard feature on my last few cars. Here in the desert, where sight distances can be ten miles or more, one becomes very prone to 'highway stare'. Anything that can help someone else notice me is a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: MMario
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 08:59 AM

My last three vehicles have all had an "auto" setting for headlights - which basically means that if the vehicle is running *some* sort of running light is active; most of the time a dimmer headlight. But even a cloud passing overhead can cause them to brighten...

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 09:00 AM

One route out of my village goes through a small wood, in bright sunshine the road ahead looks pitch dark until my eyes adjust. For a, possibly crucial, second running lights on an approaching vehicle make a huge difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 09:47 AM

"My last three vehicles have all had an "auto" setting for headlights - which basically means that if the vehicle is running *some* sort of running light is active; most of the time a dimmer headlight."

My last three VWs have had daytime running lights and auto-headlights/auto-windscreen-wipers. The headlights automatically switch on in reduced light, or when the wipers are active. The running lights are always on, there's no way to switch them off.

All good stuff, AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 10:05 AM

My car turns the lights on when the light level drops, turns them off when it increases. [ Vauxhall ]

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 10:06 AM

Even in perfect visibility its amazing how cars can merge into the background. One problem is they are normally just one colour, that's why emergency vehicles have stripes. Headlights provide the same kind of contrast that makes a car less likely to fade out of vision.

True enough, the light uses energy, and that ultimately comes from fuel, but the extra is minimal. silly not to really - that's why Swedish Volvos are set up to have their lights on all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM

We notice the occasional "bright light of wisdom" on Mudcat, versus the dim ones, -so, it seems reasonable that drivers would notice car with lights on the highway more than those without, in one manner or another. (I suspect this was based on either common sense, or research).

All new vehicles have had daylight lights in Canada for some time. Initially, it represented a challenge for vehicle manufacturers (especially the hide-away lights types). But, it is now worked into vehicle designs. Older vehicles without them were initially excluded, but eventually these vehicles were included in many location - the option is turn low beams on, or to install a relatively-inexpensive device to do it automatically when the vehicle is operating.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 10:45 AM

We notice the occasional "bright light of wisdom" on Mudcat, versus the dim ones, -so, it seems reasonable that drivers would notice car with lights on the highway more than those without, in one manner or another. (I suspect this was based on either common sense, or research).

All new vehicles have had daylight lights in Canada for some time. Initially, it represented a challenge for vehicle manufacturers (especially the hide-away lights types). But, it is now worked into vehicle designs. Older vehicles without them were initially excluded, but eventually these vehicles were included in many location - the option is turn low beams on, or to install a relatively-inexpensive device to do it automatically when the vehicle is operating.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 10:46 AM

Oops, obe post for each headlight:(

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 11:46 AM

To clarify my position: My car is too old to have modern 'automatic dimming running lights', but I certainly would turn on some sort of headlights, parking lights... even flashing emergency lights... if conditions warrant (like seriously cloudy days, driving thru heavily wooded areas, valleys...etc.)
   I just seldom see the need in an urban area in bright daylight.

Those auto-dimming headlights 'may' be useful, but I actually never heard of them before this thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 12:12 PM

that's why Swedish Volvos are set up to have their lights on all the time. It being compulsory in Sweden (and Norway) to have them on while driving may have something to do with it as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 12:26 PM

Wasn't always the case with their export models. I ran a 1974 Volvo, about 12 years old when I got it, for nearly 20 years. My first automatic. It was orange, known to all my friends as 'the baked bean'. Best car I ever had; but alas eventually had to give it up as my service-guy couldn't find the spare parts any more. But [the point at which I started] it didn't have permanently-on lights.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 12:35 PM

One disadvantage to having the running light is that folks sometimes forget that their tail lights are not functioning when just the running lights are on and since the road is lit up in front of the car by the running lights, they sometimes drive at night without realising that their tail lights are not on.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 12:51 PM

Headlights switched in daylight hours used to drive my old man absolutely nuts.

Just another "thou shalt" from the pesky Safety Police.
Cottonwool bumpers next.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 12:57 PM

Better "Thou Shalts" and cotton wool bumpers than corpses. IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 01:40 PM

I have noticed, that sometimes there have been times when I have not noticed another vehicle. A combination of loss of concentration and the colour...or lack thereof.... having the effect of blending in with the road. Lights in such cases would have been helpful, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 01:58 PM

Which leads to the bigger questions, why the hell do they install a big fookin sign that reads bump next to the bump so ya blow a Tire. How about fixing the big fookin bump instead.

Dan who just had it happen

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:03 PM

If I turn the light switch to "auto" on my Ford Focus the lights come on by themselves at dusk. Annoyingly, they also come on uselessly in low sun, and they won't come on at all in thick fog. So much for the wonders of technology!

I can't be alone in recalling that, when we were young, we considered that anyone driving a Volvo estate was automatically a tosser. The running lights were merely there to help us identify such people in plenty of time. Now what was that that crusty old joke....

What's the difference between a hedgehog and a Volvo estate?

With a hedgehog the pricks are on the outside...

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:04 PM

And a bump is a woo that was a little bump. A car eating ledge is a ledge. How about big ass ledge ahead sign in a place you see it before you hit it.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:06 PM

Steve, I heard that as, "What's the difference between a porcupine and a school bus?"

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: meself
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:09 PM

I find that with age - I know I don't look it, but I AM getting up there, folks - my vision has weakened such that sometimes a darker-coloured car will not stand out the way you would expect - I mean, it's there plain as day, but not distinct from everything else that's there plain as day. If you know what I mean. Anyway, lights help.

On a tangentially-related topic .... I've recently decided to become a complete snob whenever I get behind the wheel. I now think of myself as a member of a small elite of intelligent, sensible, eminently-civilized personages - and almost every other motorist as a moron who was raised by wild dogs; thus, I expect nothing but the worst from them, and remind myself that they really can't help it, given who and what they are. And now and then I'm pleasantly surprised by their uncharacteristic gentility, rather than being frequently annoyed by their aggressive idiocy ....

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:13 PM

I'm like that as well, and I don't even drive a Volvo estate. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:39 PM

I recall an old joke indicating that Charles De gulle had a convertible that had a special feature. If he had the top down, and it started to rain, De gulle just had to push a button and the rain would stop.


Adaptive headlights 

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:40 PM

My amish friends little amish hat turned into a Mexican sombrero while he was wearing it.. Bump yea bump

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:41 PM

Did anyone here have a car with adaptive headlights, as in my link above?
If so, did they work well, or were they just a toy?

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 02:44 PM

WAnd another useless invention 

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 03:30 PM

It may be one of those things where if it works you don't notice it.

Nothing fancy on my Skoda, but I made a short trip earlier and remembered that the speedo has a built in hint to turn the lights on. It is back lit only when the lights are on - so if it's dark enough inside to be hard to read it it is dark enough outside to be hard to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 04:09 PM

" adaptive headlights"? And what happens if the little motor driving them fails with them all the way left?

I ask because my car does have the outside rearview mirrors which are controlled with a little switch by the driver's hand.... and one of those has almost totally quit! It depends on some combination of small motor and electrical contacts. At least it has quit in a reasonably useful position.

Subject: RE: BS: Headlights on while driving in day
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Sep 15 - 10:51 PM

I feel safer when my headlights are on, and I can see other cars better when their headlights are on.

Examples: I'm on a sunny street, looking into the sun. At a stop sign, I can hardly see a dark car coming at me because it's in the dark shade of dense trees. If that other car had its lights on, I would see it sooner.

I want to pass on a 2-lane highway. I can see a car at a distance, but it is coming towards me or going away? If I could see its headlights, I would know.

Several years ago, an old man near Wichita got on the wrong side of the highway and ultimately caused the deaths of 5 people. If the cars coming at him had had their headlights on, it might have helped him understand immediately what was wrong and what to do.

Too many cars are a nice, tasteful medium gray, the color of a road. Others are white - the color of snow and fog. Lights help.