BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Jan 16 - 11:56 AM

If all arms sales to Islamic State were stopped, their invasions would be stopped more easily. But there's profit in selling guns and explosives and tanks and planes and cruelty.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 16 - 11:52 AM

Those who hold to the belief that ISIS is a product of the West`s intervention in the Middle East might find this article of interest: The New York Times: How Saddam Hussein Gave Us ISIS

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 01:36 PM

Looks like Keith A of Herford is logic chopping again in order to make sky fairy adulation look intelligent. Members of the human race know what Dave the Gnome meant by men in frocks. Trying to take it out of context is desperate to say the least.

Teribus. So your Muslim mate and his take on life is that of all Muslims? That's like saying all Christians have pete from starry place's views and outlook. I find it rather disturbing how people can understand that the term Christian can mean anything from gullible nonsense believer to saying you are one because they told you do at school and you haven't thought about it since, yet try to label Muslims as a single thought process.

The breathtaking ignorance displayed on here is equalled only by the exhibited bigotry of the less intelligent to begin with. Akenaton saying that marriage is the key until he realised what he said, or Keith A of Hertford twisting what people say. Teribus having spoken to a Muslim apparently.

Still, without them, there'd be nothing worth debating because their little gems are all I ever look for. Reason and lucidity can be sooo boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 11:09 AM

Exactly, Keith. The first was too complicated and I realised it addressed two different points. So I clarified it. The two statements are unrelated.

Statement 1. Decent people look after each other, regardless of what religion they are.

Statement 2. Religion is a con trick etc.

I am more than happy to admit when I make a mistake and it was a mistake to try and conflate the two ideas when I should have known that you would try to twist it in some way.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:57 AM

Dave,
spotted your cut and paste of two separate quotes

No. You said that you had rephrased your statement, but instead you made an entirely different one!

First statement,
" Religion matters not one iota to a normal decent human being as they are all con tricks to separate people from their money and keep men in frocks in power."

"Rephrased" statement,
"The religion of others does not matter one iota to decent human beings when they care for each other. "

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:07 AM

Fashion - Something so awful they have to change it 4 times a year :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:05 AM

Bushy beard, big hammer, work boots. DRESS??
Not a good look......bad fashion move! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:04 AM

It could be, ake. Probably like your strange fixation with anal sex...

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:02 AM

BTW - Well done for pointing out exactly what I meant by playing games. I know anyone with any sense will have spotted your cut and paste of two separate quotes to come up with yet another meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 10:01 AM

Methinks he protests too much......could he be a tiny bit phobic? :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:54 AM

Nothing wrong with men in frocks. Everything wrong with men in frocks who tell other people that they need to kill others of a different faith and give up what is good in this life for rewards in the next. To make it clear to even the most idiotic, men in frocks refers to religious leaders of most cults.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:54 AM

Also, what is wrong with men wearing frocks?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 08:50 AM

So are you now saying this, or did you not intend to post the last bit?

"The religion of others does not matter one iota to decent human beings when they care for each other being as they are all con tricks to separate people from their money and keep men in frocks in power."

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 07:23 AM

Are you saying that those who follow the strict teachings of the Muslim faith are therefore NOT normal decent human beings Gnome?

Nope. That is you misinterpreting as usual but just to make it quite clear I will rephrase it. The religion of others does not matter one iota to decent human beings when they care for each other. I am sure that you and tweedledumber will still manage to twist it but as anyone with any sense will know what I mean, it does not matter what games you play.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 07:17 AM

My Muslim colleague who had the occasional half could declare that Guinness did not contain alcohol with the same look in his eye as devout a Christian explaining the Trinity.

The twinkle came when he took a sip.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:58 AM

Not even allowed to pray for his wine to be turned into water when he sees the blue flashing light in the rear view mirror?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:53 AM

"Religion matters not one iota to a normal decent human being"

Are you saying that those who follow the strict teachings of the Muslim faith are therefore NOT normal decent human beings Gnome?

As explained to me by a Muslim - it is not forbidden for a Muslim to drink alcohol - he is forbidden to pray if he has consumed alcohol.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:40 AM

The right to ridicule

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:37 AM

The right to practice Christianity without being ridiculed?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:34 AM

I do get rather 'aerated' over the abuse of human rights. Whether the human beings are Christian, Muslim, Male, Female, Black, White or even the occasional village idiot. Religion matters not one iota to a normal decent human being as they are all con tricks to separate people from their money and keep men in frocks in power.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:18 AM

Simply a matter of mathematics guest.....birth rates.

Also Christianity is being attacked on all sides by "liberals", who see it as an impediment to their wrecking agenda.

Strangely they do seem to get rather aerated over any perceived abuse of Muslin "rights"

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:05 AM

"They used to say Corbyn was a man of principle..."

Care to tell us who precisely are these "they" who used to say it but no longer do?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:56 AM

"as I said earlier Muslims will at some point comprise the religious majority in the UK."

So you think the more modern religion will prevail then?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:52 AM

Well I think bonzo is quite correct, children are unaffected by political or racial issues.....but children grow into adults and as I said earlier Muslims will at some point comprise the religious majority in the UK.
Some would say that we should have a completely secular society...that is simply impractical given the strength of the Muslim faith and complete secularism would add nothing to our society which is already on a downward moral spiral.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:50 AM

can Muslims dring alcohol-free beer? That may depend on how strictly observant they are.

I have had Muslim colleagues who took their faith and community seriously but would have a half of beer when we went to the pub.

(ask your Catholic friends about condoms)

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:21 AM

Serious question: can Muslims dring alcohol-free beer? I am not sure what is alcohol-free beer, I know that Kaliber is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:20 AM

Akenaton, there are many people who go into a pub and only get a soft drink. Another such group are called Drivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 04:41 AM

I often see a veritable rainbow of children from an infants' school some 500 yards from where I work, walking hand in hand along the pavement having a whale of a time - of course they are integrated, it's their parents who probably are not!!!

However, quite why they need 12-15 adults for 25 children is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 04:33 AM

"how common inter marriage was, for that is the only way proper integration can be achieved ......and it must be achieved or society will not survive."

That's complete nonsense. All over the world different communities live alongside one another, geographically or socially, with a little or a lot of blurring and the edges when personal relationships come into play.

Look at group of schoolkids from the cities out in the country for a school trip, DOE or whatever. Or just comming out of the school gates on a normally day. Faces of all colours in mixed grouped chatting together as they go along. Or many workplaces.

You are making stuff up.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 04:20 AM

They used to say Corbyn was a man of principle, seems he relinquishes these by the day lol.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 04:14 AM

I was of course referring to racial integration.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 03:57 AM

Quote from above

"how common inter marriage was, for that is the only way proper integration can be achieved ......and it must be achieved or society will not survive."

It's very common. in fact society survival statistics by your logic were given a boost when marriage between people of the same sex was thankfully recognised in law.

Integration can only be achieved where equality is promoted. Luckily, here in The UK, that is the case. It may be a shock to you and your blinkers but most people don't put their superstition above their love. It is just as possible to be a boutique Muslim as it is a boutique Christian. Or non practicing, culturally, heritage, labelled by others.

Identifying real people by their arbitrary label went out of fashion in the real world years years ago. It's just the preserve of newspapers, UKIP and terrorists now. It is demonstrated every day in every walk of life that you can keep your ingrained superstition and still get on in life.

It never ceases to amaze me how when people from other cultures are shunned, it is they who are then accused of not integrating.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 07:18 PM

There are also many Catholic/Protestant marriages in this area.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 07:05 PM

Thank you guest 5:34 pm.....very informative.
I was more interested in how common inter marriage was, for that is the only way proper integration can be achieved ......and it must be achieved or society will not survive.

Going to the pub together after does not comprise integration....it just makes the Muslims feel discriminated against , as they have buy beer and only get coke!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:25 PM

It doesn't matter what any holy book says about anything, what matters is how the believers put into practice what is written therein. I think even you could figure that out.

Oh, and by the way, can one not be critical of any religion, which is nothing but a collection of ideas, or is your opprobrium reserved only for those who are critical of Islam?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:58 PM

Perhaps you could also quote the white that the bible spouts as well, Guest. Or does that not fit in with an anti-Islam agenda?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:34 PM

"It goes without saying that the marriage of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim man is one of the main taboo issues in debates on Islam.

According to a broad consensus religiously sterile, a Muslim woman is formally forbidden to marry a non-Muslim man regardless of his religion, while a Muslim man is allowed to get married to a non Muslim woman, mainly a Christian or a Jew, considered by the Islamic schools as "People of the Book"


What does the Qur'an say about the interfaith marriage?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:26 PM

Perhaps you should travel down to Glasgow? Marriages between people of all faiths and none. Even the odd Catholic and Protestant.

Nothing to see here.

Like Dave the Gnome, I live in a real world where everybody works, lives and plays together. Today I was on a sponsored walk for a local health charity. From my team at work, out of six of us, four disappear for a short while for Friday prayers. After the walk, we all went to a local pub. That'll be four cokes and two pints.

Sick puppy

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:26 PM

As to your shite about Christian/Muslim marriages. Try this. for starters.

Googling something is not really rocket science although, as it happens, I am friends to two couples of inter-faith relationships. One of the couple being gay.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:20 PM

can any of our English members throw any light on the integration or non integration among Muslims in England.

Followed by

The request was made mainly regarding mixed religion relationships or marriage.

Pretty much sums up the type of debating you indulge in. Lies? Maybe not. Dishonest? Abso-fucking-lutely.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 04:47 PM

I don't have "an agenda" regarding race. Any problems will be in the future after I am gone.
The request was made mainly regarding mixed religion relationships or marriage.    I seldom happens here, in fact I have never seen or heard of a Christian Muslim marriage.

BTW I never tell lies and certainly not on a debating forum.....what would be the point?

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 03:04 PM

can any of our English members throw any light on the integration or non integration among Muslims in England.

I work in Bradford where nearly a quarter of the population are Muslim. There is no issue with integration either at work or in the city. My Muslim friends are as English as anyone else in the country, including me and my half Polish family. There are a number of Muslin idiots. In fact, probably about a quarter of the idiots in Bradford are Muslims. Funny thing that...

Your 'friend', ake, although I doubt you actualy have any, is probably feeling isolated due to the lack of care in the community in general. It has nothing to do with her being in the 'Pakistani quarter'. You are twisting things to your own agenda. Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:41 PM

"the issue is not about the bombing of ISIS, I think everyone is in favour of that."

No one gives a feck (qv) about ISIS getting bombed. ISIS are perhaps 300000 out of 50 million. It's the other 49700000 getting bombed that upsets people.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 01:15 PM

Just as a matter of interest, can any of our English members throw any light on the integration or non integration among Muslims in England.
I have a friend who lives in the Pakistani sector of Glasgow whom I visit regularly....she says that they are on the whole civil but very self orientated, there is almost no communication between her and her neighbours, she is an old lady of over eighty living on her own.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 01:02 PM

Well I really don't know what the answer is. I'm sure that we and the other powers do have specialist military out there on the ground as path finders gaining intelligence. What I do know is that the daeshos need to be biffed by all means possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:56 PM

Bonzo, you make some good points in 5:39 pm , but the issue is not about the bombing of ISIS, I think everyone is in favour of that.
Its whether the bombing will be effective or not without Assad's ground troops being involved.

We seem to be unwilling to commit ourselves to the destruction of ISIS, the US have been bombing for over a year with no apparent success, simply because they have no follow up on the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:48 PM

Tough as it is to type this, Bozo has a point.

Although there is nothing wrong in criticising decisions they make. They are encouraged to compare their manifesto rhetoric with present thinking of their constituents.

"These communities are set to expand.."   Which communities fool? Those in Glasgow that you know nothing about? Leicester? Bradford? They are our communities if they expand. That they don't agree with your take on life is mere bonus.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:42 PM

The meaning of representative democracy is you elect a representative, then he/she and Diane Abbott use their judgement to represent their constituency but are under no obligation to think or do as you want on any issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:21 PM

Critisism is fine, but what is going on now is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Corbyn, Labour and ISIS
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 08:59 AM

Interesting thesis, Bonzo. So you don't thiink anyone should strongly criticise Obama, or Bush, or Blair, or Brown or your politician of choice depending on your persuasion?

Politics does not start and end at the elections.