BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 08:06 AM

Mike - you are the one who has expressed support for Thatcher, described a desire for equal opportunity for all as "envy", has defended what is happening as the best on offer and has dismissed argument as 'leftie' without bothering to respond to it.
You even ounted a mini-campaign to find out my politics.
Entitles you to life membership of 'your lot' as far as I'm concerned.
I too have not voted for decades and am hardly likely to now and hold no brief for any particular political philosophy.
I think I recognise what's right and wrong in society today, but that's more to do with my humanist upbringing (with a small "H"), than it has with my politics.
Doesn't stop you from referring to ma as a "leftie" - though I don't condider it "rude"
Drivving licences as far removed from electronic strips containing detailed information from political leanings to which hand you use to wipe your bum - if you don't know this, perhaps it's time you did - Brave New World, and all that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 07:25 AM

Don't know quite what you mean by my 'lot', Jim. I haven't got a 'lot'; haven't been a member of a political party since I ceased to be on the committee of the Cambridge City Labour Party in about 1969. Our house was a local Labour Committee Rooms at the 64 election which brought dear old Harold to power! When my acquaintance thru his wife's theatre company that I used to review regularly, Clement Freud, was MP for where I live now in what used to be called the Isle of Ely, I obviously would vote Lib to keep him on as an excellent constituency man. &c &c.

So less from you about any putative 'lot' that you appear to imagine I belong to, if you wouldn't too much mind. I regard is as rude. Even lefties can mind their manners, I should hope!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 07:15 AM

Very unwise not to, tho. A police officer can ask to see your driver's licence at any time, & does not need to state a reason; I have even had a bored one at 4 in the morning pull me up to do so, "Just as a routine check, sir," as the poor young man was obviously lonely and wanted someone to talk to. And if you should need assistance for any reason -- I once had the misfortune to pass out at a bus-stop for no cause that has ever been explained, and it has never happened again in the 40+ years since -- it helps if you can be identified for hospital admission, looking up in phone book & calling your wife, &c.

Still if you are so secretive you think your precious incognito must be preserved at all times, then I hope it keeps fine 4U!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 07:05 AM

"What else would I think about WHAT, Jim? "
About the idea that our governments might be prepared to demand we carry identity cards and misuse their access to the information they carry -
You aren't really as obtuse as you are being here, are you?
Politicians are not to be trusted with this information, neither are the forces of "law and order" - recent past events have shown that over and over again.
To date, Thatcher is the nearest we have ever come to a fascist prime minister - based on her own words and actions - did you ever see the photographs of crossed British and Chilean flags at her 'free Pinochet and stop Britain being turned into a police state' rally?
She had the support of big business and the 'great and good' politicians than, just as her counterparts have now.
Way back when I was working for bosses, rather than being self employed, I would have dismissed out-of-hand the idea that we would return to zero-contracts, where I could be laid off without notice - common practice now.
We fought for a living wage - we got a minimum wage - less than is required to keep a family on - and that's constantly under threat.
According to your lot, we're not trusted to have a say in our working life - our Trades Unions have either been bought off or have been neutralised - centuries of struggle to get a voice down the pan.
Community housing privatised = growing homelessness, and not jut among the less well off.   
Divide between rich and poor (I think you described this as "envy "Britain's divided decade: the rich are 64% richer than before the recession, while the poor are 57% poorer" (From the Independent, the resulkt of this on the general well being of Britain is "Growing gap between rich and poor in Britain over two decades means the economy is 9% smaller that it could be" (that from the 'Leftie' Daily Mail).
Your lot are not to be trusted with our identity cards, your police aren't to be trusted not to misuse them, your politicians aren'tt to be trusted with guarding our rights, your banks are not to be trusted with minding our money, hospitals are failing the lesser well off.... a fine mess you've got us all in Stanley.
Stick your armbands, your identity cards and your politicians - and as for your fascist prime ministers.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 06:29 AM

That's exactly the point I was trying to make yesterday.

There is a big difference between being forced at all times to carry an ID card with tons of data on its strip and carrying a simple means of identifying yourself in circumstances where you may be asked to confirm who you are. I can use the bus for free - as long as I show my bus pass (which has my fizzog beaming from it). When I go to the Eden Project, if I don't want to pay the entry fee I have to show my annual Locals' Pass. If I want a third off my rail fare I have to show my Senior Railcard. It should not be beyond the wit of the powers that be to devise a cheap, simple and discreet way for asylum seekers to show that they are entitled, without stigmatising them into the bargain. Yes a compulsory ID card is an affront to civil liberties. The non-removable wristband is much more akin to that than anything Backwoodsman suggested.

Incidentally, there is no law that obliges you to carry a driving licence or any other form of identification. Long may that remain so.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 06:14 AM

Michael, I would think that the ID Card you once had carried limited information that could be read by anyone. Name, address, national insurance number etc.

I would have though today all information would be encrypted to be read on a scanner this could easily be used to carry information of, for example, previous convictions, politic persuasion, sexual preference, the colour of your bog roll, if your cousins a drag queen etc etc without you or I being able to ascertain what was collated there.

A different kettle of fish entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 05:54 AM

What else would I think about WHAT, Jim? You've lost me. Our trains ran pretty efficiently after privatisation without her [or Benito's] put-in, at that. If you resent producing an identity document coz the copper who asked might just have been the one who clobbered poor Blair Peach 37 years ago, you are one poor mixed up old pusskat, I'm afraid. & if he asked your name for any reason, would you just make one up? Or refuse to produce your driving licence if involved in any sort of traffic incident? You are getting carried away on one of your rhetorical wottiff·worst-case-scenario flights, you know! They're quite entertaining, so don't stop!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!😎
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 05:38 AM

🙈🙊🙉

😫🔫

💩

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 05:14 AM

"WHY 'would' I? Don't follow your reasoning at all."
Thatcher supporter - what else would you think Mike - after all, she made the trains run on time, didn't she?
"No big deal to one of my generation"
That's why those who followed Michael Howard dropped it like ma warm turd
I wouldn't trust the people who battered down striking miners, laid Blair Peach's head open on the corner of a wall, or let the killers of Stephen Lawrence go free (and be found "institutionally racist" by their own enquiry).... demand my identity card at a whim
Mrs T was happy to use our Boys in Blue as her private strike -breakers, and was poised to move in the army, (and shortly afterwards describe a mass-murdering dictator as 'her kind of democrat' - that's the reality of my generation, my middle-adulthood, in fact.
The armbands have been compared to the Yellow Stars pretty widely - even by the rightest of the right-wing press - ok with those here, it would seem.
"Its a pity we don't have smileys "
Easier to smile than actually to respond with actual argument.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 04:46 AM

"You would say that, wouldn't you, coming from where you do politically Mike - after all - it couldn't happen here - and nobody would dare to try foisting identification papers on all of us, would they!!!"
.,,.

WHY 'would' I? Don't follow your reasoning at all.

ID papers? -- so what if? No big deal to one of my generation. We all carried them around with us during WWii & nobody died of it so far as I recall. I've told on here before of the visit of the King & Queen to my N London school to inspect the damage when it got bombed in the Blitz in 1940 (I got months off school -- ill wind, innit eh!?). First thing Their Majesties did on arrival was formally to produce their National Registration Identity Cards for the inspection of the Mayor of Hendon who was ic the proceedings. I've still got my NRIC somewhere. Just a harmless light cardboard souvenir of my early life. It hasn't ever yet burst into flames and burned the house down.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 04:30 AM

Paranoia is grist for the media mill.
The result is the chaff you get in Mudcat --- BS = BULLSHIT


Just a thought
Its a pity we don't have smileys / grumpys which could be mandatory in the completion of a post in place of the submit message box

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 04:25 AM

"im..."armbands" were wristbands, the difference has already been explained."
And responded to - and ignored by you, it seems - but one more time - doesn't take half a brain for a rambling racist thug on the look-out for someone to find a wristband, if he is so intent, but it takes more than that to work out that fact, apparently.
"he "red plaques" were door numbers" which identified that asylum seekers were living there.
"The "red doors" were company policy, just as the doors of our council houses were at painted green"
Which again, identified asylum seekers - the policy was abandoned as being detrimental to their welfare and abandoned by all - but you, it seems.
"I am amazed that you can continue this nonsense."
And I'm amazed you continue this viciousness long after the rest of the world has accepted the detrimental nature of these practices and moved on - no - I lie - I'm not in the least bit amazed!
"I have never supported racist attacks by anyone."
You have empathised with the people who have made those attacks.
We have all been victims of right-wing Government policy at one time or another - most of us don't blame immigrants or dole scroungers who don't want to work for it.
We certainly don't defend the bastards who brought the country to what it has become because of continuing right-wing policies.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 04:24 AM

Jim, I did not attribute Steve's quote to you. I gave his name and he claimed it was out of context.

There were enough quotes of you suggesting government was deliberately persecuting these people, as a "pilot scheme" to persecute "all immigrants."

I was not making a comparison between wealthy vacationers and asylum seekers, just pointing out how common such use was.

The thread title compares these wrist bands to the persecution of Jews by Nazi Germany.

(And if you know of a UK hotel offering "all inclusive" please give details.)

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 04:22 AM

Jim, I did not attribute Steve's quote to you. I gave his name and he claimed it was out of context.

There were enough quotes of you suggesting government was deliberately persecuting these people, as a "pilot scheme" to persecute "all immigrants."

I was not making a comparison between wealthy vacationers and asylum seekers, just pointing out how common such use was.

The thread title compares these wrist bands to the persecution of Jews by Nazi Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 04:09 AM

"I haven't claimed anything, apart from my personal circumstances."
Sorry Steve (SPB) - I was responding to a different Steve, who wrote:
"I will thank you for not using quotes of mine out of context."
Keith appeared to be thrashing around for examples to justify his crassness, so he attributed something that Steve Shaw said to me.
I intended to compliment you for your concise summing up (got engrossed in my own erudition) - my thoughts exactly.
I've always been a great believer in Angela Davis's, "If they come for you in the morning, they'll come for me in the night".
In this case, if they can force identification on asylum seekers, why not all immigrants, and then, who knows which of us will be subject to producing identification papers, or stop-and-search....
If it can be a daily occurrence for the lads in Brixton, why not for the rest of us?
"But OTOH they 'may have been' planted by Martians in flying saucers visiting in the stilly watches of the night.."
You would say that, wouldn't you, coming from where you do politically Mike - after all - it couldn't happen here - and nobody would dare to try foisting identification papers on all of us, would they!!!
THINKING THE UNWORKABLE
Some people never learn from the past, do they - that's why it keeps coming back to bite us in the bum?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 03:44 AM

MGM... :0)   nice one!!

Jim..."armbands" were wristbands, the difference has already been explained.
The "red plaques" were door numbers, why do you continue to call them "plaques"......does it sound more in keeping with your CT?
The "red doors" were company policy, just as the doors of our council houses were at painted green......of course the Rangers supporters thought that was a conspiracy too!! :0)

I am amazed that you can continue this nonsense.

BTW ""Explaining away the attacks by putting them down to Government policy.
A reference to Ake's support for racist attacks by disaffected Brits"

Could you please explain this slur, I have never supported racist attacks by anyone.   Being against unregulated immigration is not a racist attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 12:43 AM

"I suggested that these "unrelated" incidents - armbands, plaques on walls, red doors, may have been a pilot scheme to identify asylum seekers and where they were living - no more than that."[itals added]

.,.,,.

Yay -- 'may have been' indeed. But OTOH they 'may have been' planted by Martians in flying saucers visiting in the stilly watches of the night...

Just coz you're paranoid, as they say, don't mean the buggers ain't out to getcha!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 11:32 PM

Media affected baboon grunting get your banana, try Jesus instead

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 08:15 PM

Blimey, I'm confused. Am I not the Steve referred to by Jim then? <>boggle

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 08:09 PM

Jim,   your long response to my point is confusing. I haven't claimed anything, apart from my personal circumstances.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 08:05 PM

"Can someone make sense of the last post please."
Steve pointed out what I just did
Don't attribute what he said to me.
I know it's hard, but try to keep up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 08:00 PM

"No. There are not Jim. "
Yes there ***** are 4* hotels offering 5* All Inclusive holiday" Bed and Breakfast Spa, local trips... Hadrian's Wall, Anne Hathaway's Cottage, Tower/St.Pauls/West End Theatre tickets, Tower of London...... all extra to a night's stopover.
The Hotel we stopped in in Bayswater a few years ago offered trips as far as Stratford on Avon and a swimming pool in the basement.
Weekly holidays taking in Queens or Wimbledonor The Six Nations or the Football Final, or Lords.....   
Are you totally insane - please try not to be more stupid than we already recognise you to be.
"No. The reference was to "All hotels offering 5* All Inclusive" "
As I asked, where - Ulan Bator?
We were talking about Cardiff - you were comparing British hotels.
"There may be to this than meets the eye - the Government has been aware of this for four years."
The authorities were warned about the dangers of pinpointing asylum seekers four years ago
No reference to "persecution"
"Explaining away the attacks by putting them down to Government policy.
A reference to Ake's support for racist attacks by disaffected Brits
No reference to "persecution"
"Yeah - sure it is - we have imagined that Cameron has just described alylum seekers as a "swarm" (insects, maybe) "
Which is exactly what he did
No reference to "persecution
I'm not answerable to anything Steve claims – you accused me – dipstick!
I suggested that these "unrelated" incidents - armbands, plaques on walls, red doors, may have been a pilot scheme to identify asylum seekers and where they were living - no more than that.
Immigration, particularly the numbers of asylum seekers in need of assistance, has become a political issue, and the latter have become perfect election fodder.
Come a dodgy by-election, or another crisis brought on by bankers giving themselves over-generous bonuses, or more MPs claiming expenses for yet more duck-palaces.... what better than our Tess May standing up and saying - "we're going to do something about all those cadgers-cum-security-threats"?
Our democratic press has been laying the anti-immigration ground for the most of my life, May has already announced her intention to clamp down on asylum rights.... knowing where asylum seekers are would guarantee a policy of sending them home a smooth passage - no persecution needed - just send them back where they came from as soon as possible - an election winner if ever there was one.
Ukip hasn't even had to go to the bother of developing a national policy - "hate the foreigners, especially that lot in Brussels" will do very nicely thank you.
Governments who describe themselves as 'democratic' don't 'persecute' - they don't have to - they have the power of the State to keep them warm.
Do not accuse me of suggesting something I have not suggested - you stupidly desperate little turdule.
I repeat what I wrote:
"It is not beyond the realms of possibility that these have been pilot schemes for future identification of all asylum seekers, and, if them, why not all immigrants?"
No persecution - just identifying and tagging to make things easier should it become necessary.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 07:23 PM

Couldn't agree more.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 07:01 PM

WTF is the connection between wristbands that prove entitlement to champagne and caviar treatment in 5 star hotels and armbands that require asylum seekers to identify themselves as such to be entitled to the means of survival.

I suppose the next step would be people who have just been made redundant (as I was two years ago) to identify themselves as skivers in order to sign on (as I did for 5 months - 3 of them not to get benefits but to get my NI stamp paid ).

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 05:27 PM

I'm an atheist, thank God.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 05:16 PM

I got one so frustrated with my answers to his questions that whilst scrunching his watchtower he calle me "a ffffff optimist"
BTW he didnt say the "f" word but he really wanted to
I always say "its the thought that counts"

Drunk to police constable " you're an eejit"
Const to drunk "I can book you for calling me an eejit"
Drunk to Const "can you book me for thinking?"
Const "no"
Drunk "then I think you're an eejit"

The old one are the best & thank Christ you're not of them Christians

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 04:16 PM

There's no such thing as a free lunch. And don't worry about Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm a rabid atheist (ask Joe Offer), but our local Jehovah's Witness is a lovely old boy who walks round my garden with me and who I give big bags of apples to. He knows he hasn't got a chance with me, but I always take the Watchtower, promising that I'll read it, which I always do. I'm just as nice to the Christians around here, but, unlike my JW friend, they're all bitter and defensive. What can you do?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 04:02 PM

Where can I get a free meal if I wear a Mudcat teeshirt?

Will it stop Jehovas Witnesses calling if I have a red door?

Just wondered

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:54 PM

The last post by Keith A of Hertford.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:53 PM

Can someone make sense of the last post please.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:51 PM

I will thank you for not using quotes of mine out of context.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:44 PM

Or aren't there "hotels offering 5* "All Inclusive" in Britain?

No. There are not Jim.

The reference was to "All hotels"

No. The reference was to "All hotels offering 5* All Inclusive"

Where have I ever claimed that "this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers!"

In all these quotes Jim!!

"There may be to this than meets the eye - the Government has been aware of this for four years."

"explaining away the attacks by putting them down to Government policy - Britain has a shameful record of racism - Moseley, N.F., BNP, and now Ukip - all major players in British politics
Now they are targeting asylum seekers and you are supporting them."

"It is extreme paranoia to imagine a government conspiracy in any of this."
Yeah - sure it is - we have imagined that Cameron has just described alylum seekers as a "swarm" (insects, maybe)
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that these have been pilot schemes for future identification of all asylum seekers, and, if them, why not all immigrants?

(Steve)
"I think we are being softened up to hate immigrants by a nasty, racist Tory government..... The fact that we can even be having a discussion about marking out asylum seekers as separate by painting their doors a certain colour or making them wear wristbands is testament to the fact that the cynical softening up is working on the more bigoted and feeble-minded among us. These things are not debatable in my opinion. "

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:02 PM

"Comprehension of the written English language has never been a strong point of Jim Carroll's"
And common sense doesn't seem to be yours
If you are talking about how asylum seekers are being treated on the streets of cardiff, you don't expect their lot to be compared to 5* Star hotels anywhere
Elsewhere he has written:
Keith A of Hertford - PM   Date: 29 Jan 16 - 10:23 AM
"All hotels offering 5* "All Inclusive" use wrist bands.". - "all" hotels where - Ulan Bator, maybe?
Or aren't there "hotels offering 5* "All Inclusive" in Britain?
The reference was to "All hotels"
If you can't be intelligent, why not try to cover up your ignorance by being nice?
Little wonder you wish to remain anonymous - why do all of you sound like Bearded Bruce - he's ashamed of his identity too..... now that I think on it....!
"Jim's claim that this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers"
I claim no such thing - I do not discount the possibility, politicians being what they are.
Far too many coincidences to be ignored - armbands, plaques, red front doors, Tories leaping up to defend the practice - and to top it all - you and Ake - two of our most enthusiastic establishment arse-lickers.
There have ben numerous calls for enquiries on both the armbands and the front doors - yet you and your little Klan of Brothers still support the practices.
Where have I ever claimed that "this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers!"
I said it might have been a pilot scheme to tag them in some way - that is nott persecution - it is identifying them apart from the rest of the population - tagging them, in fact.
Stop making things up - honesty is not a word that springs to mind when describing you as it is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 02:46 PM

Non-dorms? I wasn't referring to the bedroom tax. Let's say non-doms.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 02:45 PM

Well I wouldn't want you agreeing with me. As for cheaper, well if we can afford HS2, Trident, bankers' bonuses and massive tax perks for big corporations and non-dorms, we can well afford a solution for asylum seekers that doesn't demean them.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:46 PM

My "Yes of course" was agreeing with Bwm before Steve's post.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:44 PM

Yes of course.
Wrist bands would be much simpler, cheaper, and quicker to replace if lost, but if that makes them vulnerable then obviously something else is required.

There is certainly nothing to judtify Jim's claim that this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers!

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:39 PM

Absolute nonsense. I've been on many mini-cruises, always bought a few bottles of El Coto Rioja ashore and no-one has ever checked my bag or anyone else's. Look up the different cruise companies' booze policies on Cruise Critic, why don't you. Mind you, my making you red-faced isn't going to help your demeanour, so I suppose we'll get even more of your frustrated ill-temper. Excuse me, time for the mantecura...

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:29 PM

So, are we all agreed that a 'Bus-Pass-style' photo-card, which could be kept out of view until required to be shown, would be an acceptable means for those immigrants/refugees/asylum-seekers who are eligible for certain necessary 'benefits' (like food to keep them and their children alive!) to assure the providers of those 'benefits' of their eligibility?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:15 PM

"Different cruise companies have different policies."

IMO ISPS Code 2003 happens to be mandatory Shaw and requires searches on any baggage taken ashore and then brought back onboard. But as you have never taken such cruises you'd best ask your mate or better still do a bit of research as part of YOUR education.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:48 PM

Nope, nothing to do with that. Different cruise companies have different policies. Look it up before you post your nonsense. Regard your research as part of your education. And the post I commented on was pure sniping with no substantive content. My comment made no reference to Jim or to anyone else. You are just bitter and twisted about something or other, you poor soul. Just off to put my risotto on. See you later.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:39 PM

Steve Shaw - 07 Feb 16 - 12:21 PM

Not at all Shaw merely stating an observation on the obvious, but here we have the rules for Goose and Gander again - no baying pack climbing all over Carroll's back pulling him up on his false inaccurate made up quotes.

Or do you really actually think that "all hotels" is the same as " all inclusive hotels" - Personally I read quite a difference in comparing the two. It was you who once banged on about the importance of education wasn't it Shaw?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:27 PM

"I understand from a mate of mine who's much given to going on cruises that certain cruise companies insist on frisking your bags every time you re-board the ship in case you're trying to smuggle onboard the cheap booze that you bought onshore, presumably to force you to buy the grossly-overpriced stuff they sell onboard."

So it would have nothing whatsoever to do with International Maritime Organisation ISPS Code 2003 requirements then.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:21 PM

Tiresome, mealy-mouthed, empty sniping, Guest-coward. Just grow up, will you.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:18 PM

I'll not pay hundreds, or thousands, of pounds to go to a holiday venue where they fasten non-removable wristbands on people. I understand from a mate of mine who's much given to going on cruises that certain cruise companies insist on frisking your bags every time you re-board the ship in case you're trying to smuggle onboard the cheap booze that you bought onshore, presumably to force you to buy the grossly-overpriced stuff they sell onboard. When I pay out good money to go on holiday, I'm paying to go on a free-and-easy holiday, not a bloody boot camp run by little Hitlers, thank you very much. Asylum seekers are usually doing the very last thing they want to be doing, often people who have lost everything. We must treat them with kindness, not make them look and feel like criminals. Which is exactly how I would feel if I had to flash my wristband to get my all-inclusive dinner or if I were being frisked for booze that I've bought perfectly legally. Cheeky bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:17 PM

Comprehension of the written English language has never been a strong point of Jim Carroll's. He only sees and reads what he wants to see and read and he never lets actual fact get in the way of whatever myth he happens to be peddling.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:09 PM

He started of by saying "all hotels" then reduced it to 5*star ones

His first post in this thread is 29 Jan 16 - 06:17AM. He says

"Wristbands are a very common way of identifying which people are entitled to which perks.
You wear them in 5* all inclusive hotels!"

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 11:56 AM

"So, if your nemesis hasn't specifically mentioned wristbands being used in UK hotels,"
He started of by saying "all hotels" then reduced it to 5*star ones
In my opinion, it's totally ludicrous to compare 5* customers to asylum seekers - but that's Keith!!
To compare what happens in Middlesborough and Cardiff to luxury Hotels in Israel is just malicious stupidity.
His classic, paints a picture of *5 customers huddled together in a starving bunch because they's lost their armbands - a sort of bizarre remake of Bunuel's 'Exterminating Angel'.
"Wristbands are a very common way of identifying which people are entitled to which perks.
You wear them in 5* all inclusive hotels!
It would not help anyone if all the food disappeared before those actually entitled to it arrived."
This is an exercise in tagging asylum seekers - the way it was done was found to be degrading and dangerous so it was abandoned (after nationwide protests).
Keith and Ake continue to defend it - this has nothing do do with how 5* hotels operate, neither did Keith's starting a new thread on 'all-inclusive-holidays - it has everything to do with how we treat asylum seekers.
Ake let the cat out of the bag with his gesture of understanding for those who target asylum seekers and all immigrants - none of which he has ever offered to their victims.
Those who wish to defend this practice need to do so on the basis of what is happening on the streets Britain - not on what happens in 5* hotels on the other side of the planet - little sign of it here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 11:05 AM

I haven't experienced enforced armbands either, Jim. But I have experienced wristbands that All-Inclusive guests are issued with - not in the UK hotels I've stayed in, but definitely in Greek/Corfian/Cypriot/Cretan hotels. In all honesty, I can't swear that wearing those is compulsory, but they are very definitely issued for ease of identification of A-I guests in the restaurants, bars and other hotel facilities.

So, if your nemesis hasn't specifically mentioned wristbands being used in UK hotels, why do you keep prattling on interminably about them in UK hotels - presumably it's a manifestation of your OCD where he's concerned? (To be fair, I think he's also OCD where you're concerned, so you're both as bad as one another AFAIC).

BUT....I completely agree with you in respect of the humiliation and abuse of immigrants/asylum-seekers, and I'm convinced that a simple card similar to a driving licence or buss-pass is a suitable solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 09:38 AM

"had claimed specifically that UK hotels use wrist-bands in order to differentiate between classes of customer,"
He hasn't, as far as I know - in fact he hasn't given a reason for his comparing the situation of Asylum Seekers with that of 5* hotel customers (nor has anybody)
He began by referring to it as "common practice" in British Hotels then retreated to "Sharm" (el Sheik, presumably) and Shark Bay (haven't bothered to look that one up).
Quite honestly, I have no interest what hotels do - I've travelled fairly widely in Britain, Ireland, Europe, North Africa, and a couple of times, into Asia (though not far in) -
At no time have I experienced enforced armbands not even in the half- dozen ex-Communist countries I visited - though I am willing to bow to the experience of those who have.
My point throughout is that none of this has the slightest to do with asylum seekers being laid open to humiliation, abuse and even violence.
The practice has been, rightly discontinued - Britain's reputation regarding how we behave towards foreigners is, in my opinion, bad enough, without these people adding to it.
Jim Carroll