BS: Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 09 Mar 16 - 05:28 PM

Precisely so Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 09 Mar 16 - 06:48 PM

The linked article is essentially correct, but it obscures a couple of important points.

The first is that no Republican, President or otherwise, can change the superedelegate system, because it's peculiar to the Democratic party. In place since the '80s, its purpose is frankly to preserve the influence of party leaders - the superdelegates. These include all current Democrats in Congress, plus local leaders.

The superdelegates aren't *assigned* to vote for anyone. They can vote for whomever they like. If Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Sanders "has" a certain number of superdelegates, that only means that they've already expressed a preference for one candidate or the other. They can change their preferences for any reason - though they usually don't. Recall too that there are many fewer superdelegates than "pledged delegates," whose votes must reflect voter preferences

But the larger point is that there's no requirement in the Constitution for primary elections. These began in the 19th century but didn't take on present-day proportions till after WWII.

Some states assign pledged delegates in proportion to the popular vote. Others are winner-take-all, depending on the rules of the state party apparatus.

In other words, Democrats and Republicans can run their primaries however their party leaders want - or conduct none at all. Before the days of primary elections, all candidates were chosen by party bosses - without much regard (or poll-based knowledge of) whom the voters would prefer. Primaries evolved to reform this system.

The primary system cannot (I believe) be abolished or restructured by any Presidential or Congressional action without violating the First Amendment, which protects political parties from government interference. I suppose superdelegates and the like might be abolished by Constitutional amendment, but no party in Congress would sacrifice its autonomy by approving such an amendment, which would tend to undermine the First anyway.

If the Democrats decide the superdelegate system should go, they alone can make it happen.

The general election, of course, has to be conducted according to federal law: one standard for any and all parties. This includes the electoral college, but that's another, even more complicated, story.

One might consider the whole nominating process "corrupt." Or one might see it as the product of 200 years of unavoidable, pragmatic compromises.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 16 - 07:40 PM

The only person who can BEAT Donald R Trump is...Mike Tyson.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Mar 16 - 07:59 PM

Well, I dunno about that - what about Hulk Hogan?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 01:59 AM

Der Spiegel has a long and rather chilling piece about Donald Trump, and America's likely future if he's elected president.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 03:20 AM

Is that supposed to be a joke?    If so it works on several levels.

Thanks for the information Lighter, you are a shining example of how debate should be conducted.....I'm away to think carefully on what you have written.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 03:27 AM

America's future was decided when China became the largest economy and American based multinationals invested there and in Europe.

I'd say the trade links with Mexico may be the nearest thing you have to a solution but isn't there some talk of a bloody Great Wall? Trump's construction interests will bid to build it, or would if he were in a position to stalk the world stage.

It's one thing to say people want alternatives to the same old same old but the anger at the establishment is that it allows the likes of Trump to flourish in the first place. A bit self defeating if you ask me.

Yes, simple folk who have to take their socks off to count to twenty may be impressed but that's an indictment of a failing education system and dumbed down society. Don't worry, looking at a post a few up, we appear to have failed the odd school kid ourselves many years ago.

All The USA has to do here is hope that the rich / poor divide hasn't been followed in a similar divide in intelligence. Either way, his product promotion for his global empire during political rallies will be used in marketing courses for years to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 03:50 AM

"he will have good strong genes."
His grandfather was a brothel-keeper in the Yukon - will this add or subtract to the gene-pool?
Genetically strong leadership - Spooky statement Ake - the world has been here before within my lifetime - look where it got us
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 06:28 AM

Its mourning in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 08:06 AM

Trump to Anderson Cooper last night:

Trump: Islam hates us....There's a tremendous hatred there, there's a tremendous hatred, and we have to get to the bottom of it. There is an unbelievable hatred of *us*.

Cooper: In Islam itself?

Trump: You're gonna have to figure that out, OK? You'll get another Pulitzer, right? But you're gonna have to figure that out.

Cooper: But the question is, is there a war between the West and *radical* Islam or is there war between the West and Islam itself?

Trump: Well, it's radical, but it's very hard to define. It's very hard to separate, because you don't know who is who.


In other words, the Man Who Would Be Prez is clueless.

Which is the kindest interpretation. YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 08:31 AM

someone like Trump with no need to rely on "establishment" money

No, he's relying on the billions he inherited (a lot of which he's pissed away as a lousy businessman) without which he'd be selling used cars in Hoboken.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 09:50 AM

Here's an article from Politifacts regarding the source of Trump's wealth.
For the record, I think Trump is a clown and would be an embarrassment as U.S. Prez but would not be as damaging to our society as any one of the 3 conservative ideologues who are running against him on the GOP side.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 06:05 PM

10 March 2016

The toxic environment that's become a trademark of Donald Trump's raucous campaign turned violent again on Wednesday when a protester at the Republican frontrunner's rally in Fayetteville, N.C., was sucker-punched by one of Trump's supporters.

"No one should be subjected to such a cowardly, unprovoked act as that committed by McGraw," Cumberland County Sheriff Earl "Moose" Butler said in a statement Thursday afternoon. "Regardless of political affiliation, speech, race, national origin, color, gender, bad reputation, prior acts or political demonstration, no other citizen has the right to assault another person or to act in such a way as this defendant did. I hope that the courts will handle this matter with the appropriate severity for McGraw's severe and gross violation of this victim's rights."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 06:52 PM

A preview of Trump's America?

Interestingly the cops escorting Rakeem just ignored the assault and kept on walking. McGraw wasn't arrested until a video of it went viral on social media.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 07:52 PM

Welcome to Trump's Brownshirt America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,#
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 08:18 PM

Rakeem Jones deserves a standing ovation for not responding to the punch. Imagine if he had? Trump's supporters are basically 'hunt in a pack, shoot in the back' kinda folks. Sick minds, sick souls and quite cowardly as exemplified by John McGraw.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Mar 16 - 11:34 PM

Man charged w/ punching protester at Trump rally: ""Yes, he deserved it. The next time we see him, we might have to kill him."

4:05 PM - 10 Mar 2016 · North New Hyde Park, NY, United States

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 01:49 AM

There always has been a difference between Dixiecrats and Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 03:20 AM

Hoosier Mama: "46,000 Pa. Democrats Become Republicans Due To Trump"

"According to Penn Live, some experts attribute the mass exodus to Donald Trump."


Think they may be fleeing Hillary...the way the Republicans are 'fleeing' the 'establishment'???

ya' think they just might be one in the same??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 03:40 AM

Hoosier Mama: "46,000 Pa. Democrats Become Republicans Due To Trump"

This is one of those things I have never got my head around about American politics. While it is obvious in this headline, I remember hearing it when Obama was running for the first time: Democrats willing to change to support republicans based on one personality, and presumably vice versa if it arose.

Republicans and Democrats always talk about the gulf between them, whether it is taxation, health provisions or whatever. Yet they appear quite comfortable ignoring all that because they like or dislike one person whose actual power is very limited because of the whole set-up.

I just don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 09:52 AM

One reason for the "switch" (and I don't guarantee this is the case in Pennsylvania) is that it's so easy to "switch parties" and then switch back again. All you do to "register" is check a box at the polling place to indicate which primary you want to vote in. In some states, anyone can vote in any primary without even checking the box.

In the general election, you vote for whomever you want.

Many Democrats are registering as Republicans simply to vote in the Republican primaries for the candidate (now often Trump) they think would be the easiest to beat.

A Democratic friend of mine voted (as a Republican) for Kasich because there is no way that any Democrat will carry this "red" state in November, he predicted (correctly) that Hillary would win the Democratic primary, and he wanted to cast a "protest vote" for the sanest Republican running.

There's no telling how many Democrats voting for Trump in primaries will support him in the general election.

(Republicans are undoubtedly voting for Sanders on the same principle: they think he'd be easier to beat.)

Trump on Sanders: "He's a Socialist - which is really a Communist, when you think about it."

Get the picture?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:11 AM

Lighter wrote: "A Democratic friend of mine voted (as a Republican) for Kasich because there is no way that any Democrat will carry this "red" state in November, he predicted (correctly) that Hillary would win the Democratic primary, and he wanted to cast a "protest vote" for the sanest Republican running."

What state are you referring to?

There is speculation that HRC lost in Michigan even though she had a big lead in the polls because of "party jumping" by Democrats who want to get Trump as Clinton's opponent in November.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:20 AM

"Trump on Sanders: "He's a Socialist - which is really a Communist, when you think about it." Well to be honest Lighter, Mr Trump has it about right there.

To be a practicing Socialist living under a Capitalist administration is well nigh impossible.
Of course many people do claim to be Socialist, I do so myself, but in truth we are all forced to practice Capitalist economics to survive.
If we want to change society radically we must first change the system and to change the system we must attack the "established order", which in the US is big corporations represented by The Republican and Democrat parties.
There is no left and right in US politics as far as I can see just a gigantic "Magic Shadow Show"......Good Cop/ Bad Cop.

It looks as if the American people are beginning to wake up to that fact, maybe this is the start of something, like proper democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:24 AM

Mr Trump had been leading for some considerable time in Michigan as far as I am aware?
Apparently "blue collar workers" vote for Mr Trump as they do not trust Mrs Clinton.......very wise!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:29 AM

Trump and HRC were running in different contests in case you were unaware.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:40 AM

Apologies Gilly, getting my primaries mixed up. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 11:30 AM

"It looks as if the American people are beginning to wake up to that fact, maybe this is the start of something, like proper democracy."

Looks to me like something dangerously close to fascism! It also looks like a symptom of the decline of the US, the West and the 'Free World'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 12:09 PM

Well to be honest Lighter, Mr Trump has it about right there.

Well, to be honest, Ake, once again- YET again?- you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Apparently "blue collar workers" vote for Mr Trump as they do not trust Mrs Clinton.......very wise!

The "blue collar workers" in the U.S. have a long standing and supremely idiotic propensity to vote against their own interests every time - if you considetr that "wise", you've even less of an idea what you're talking about than I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 12:40 PM

> What state are you referring to?

A well-known Southern state.

The only way Mr. Trump is likely "shake up the system" in the radical way that Ake seems to hope for would be to initiate a proto-fascist regime running roughshod over the Constitution.

If so, he would be impeached by Congress and - one hopes - convicted and removed from office.

Just last night he endorsed Peking's military slaughter of unarmed protesters in Tienanmen Square as the action of a "strong" government (which he advocates) against "rioters." He routinely encourages (or doesn't discourage) followers to beat up protesters at his rallies. One of his paid spokesmen said, with a straight face, that the (admittedly tiny) number of violent supporters may well be "plants" set in the crowd by "the liberals."

One of those supposed "plants" now faces assault charges. This morning, Trump himself asserted that the protester had struck first (he hadn't) and that the punch to the face was "very, very appropriate." He has also promised "to pay the legal fees" of anyone who attacks a demonstrator. Trump has repeatedly revealed a gut-level liking for violence carried out at his behest. Not the best characteristic for someone who wants to be in charge of the armed forces and who promises to make other countries "behave."   

And has everyone now seen Trump leading the crowd in a "solemn" oath, with right arms raised, to vote for him no matter what? The "optics" speak for themselves.

Either he was wittingly imitating Hitler, which would make him truly dangerous, or he was doing so unwittingly, which would make him a fool. I've never heard of a serious candidate for American office pushing a public oath of personal allegiance onto his constituents.

He's repeated the charade even after amazed criticism by pundits of both parties and many networks.

And BTW, the epithet "Communist" in the U.S. carries (or carried) connotations only slightly more favorable than "child molester." To call Sanders a "Communist" is not to clarify but to rule out of court.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 12:46 PM

November 8, 2016 will see another set of very important elections in the US. There are 34 Senate seats and 435 House of Representatives seats up for grabs. Presidents can't do much with those two facets of the legislature being obstructive and deceitful. Good time to vote as many Republicans out as you possibly can and reclaim your government.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 12:54 PM

Guest #: "Good time to vote as many Republicans out as you possibly can and reclaim your government."

A Trump candidacy could be very helpful in this regard and it's one of the main reasons he's got Republicans peeing their pants.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 01:05 PM

Good observation, gillymor, and an important one.

"There's letters seal'd: and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd,
They bear the mandate; they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petar'; and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon: O, 'tis most sweet,
When in one line two crafts directly meet."

Old Bill said it half a millennium ago and things ain't changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 06:03 PM

Hope you've got the tight pants on when you're quotin' that stuff #?
:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 07:08 PM

Greg, brownshirts came to mind for me as well. The difference is uniform and baton.

I saw a follow up interview with the codger that threw punches'
He in fact goes on to saw that in the future the protesters will face death. He used the word kill. I have not seen the follow up interview since.

The codger is only now in police custody.

Trump did set it up.

I suppose everyone understands that beyond suggestion is hypnosis and tat takes place in a complete waking state.

It's up to Trump how far he wants the violence to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 07:12 PM

Whenever politicians from other countries express concern over candidates, it tends to backfire. Yet you just can't help thinking that the USA has a reputation, (which funnily enough it seems proud of) of exhibiting leadership. Despite China being a larger economy in terms of every future trajectory, it's Obama who other leaders wish to be photographed with at summits.

Trump would jeopardise this as to be frank, his comments are worthy of invoking Godwin. If the Republicans want him as a puppet whose strings they can pull, many Germans said similar in the '30s when they were fed up with the same old system. Over here, our own racist nutter Nigel Farage gets press (but luckily not votes.)

The system is broken. It needs a repairman though, not a man with a huge hammer. He brings out the base in some people, as posts here show. The western world has fought for years on end to destroy attitudes such as his from obtaining power. We should be proud of our liberal democracy ideals that promote equality, raise safety nets and embrace difference. Yet Trump is popular it seems and over here our government is quietly dismantling the infrastructure we set up to look after the vulnerable in society, remove the word "minority" as we all have equal rights in principle, widen the gap and frankly, they want us to be more American. I love America. I have a right of residency through business assets, yet I see no good reason to wish to live there. If Trump proves to be popular, perhaps regular visits aren't such a good idea either?

Still, they have their fans, even confused ones who claim otherwise...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 08:43 PM

I have just watched the postponed Trump rally in Chicago for 2 hours.
At first protestors had blocked one street with numbers around 5 thousand. There was no reported vetting of the crowd entering the arena.

Disruptions with words and middle fingers ensued. No one was injured as people tried to obey the missing Trump by trying to smash someone in the face. These incidents were stopped by both sides.

THERE WAS NO RIOT

People were as happily entertained as they were disgusted.
Mostly they were smiling with handfuls of angry dudes.


The words by Trump "I want to hit him in the face." were not exceeded,

As I said before the introduction of increased violence is up to the Trump.

The dissipation of the crowd was help along by police lines.



More Trump prompts to anger

"In the old days protesters were taken away by stretchers.
If you do rough up protesters I'll cover the legal fees."




THIS IS A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN AT WORK with violence at the center.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 08:54 PM

On the positive side the many hundreds of i phone cameras trained on potential brawls limited violence along with fairly gentle police. No one was hurt or bloodied.

On the sad side the brawls were mostly drawn along racial lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 10:06 PM

The coming election is about totalitarianism and whether Americans will accept that as their form of self-governance. They won't. It will however display the totalitarians among you. There is always a bright side to things.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Mar 16 - 11:35 PM

"THIS IS A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN AT WORK with violence at the center."


...while 'Move On. org.' has claimed responsibility....so says the latest reports.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 12:06 AM

For the last decade Republicans have been pitting people against each other. It's the leftist, it's the gays, it the welfare etc. Now the ground is fertile for a racist like trump and the monster is off the lease. Now they try to stop him.. They have themselves to blame and when they lose by the biggest margin ever seen, they will be rocked on their heels and blame someone else for losing

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 12:26 AM

Here's how the rest of the world views Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 12:33 AM

I was reviewing tweets on Cnn, amazing how trump supporters were blaming Obama for the protest in Chicago.. I mean when does the blame stop and they look at themselves.. Amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 01:19 AM

Social media allows people to see only what they want to see. Trump supporters only see other Trump supporters, so a critical mass of support arises. Perhaps if there is a chink in the reporting, if they look outside the "blame Obama for everything" mentality, they'll see the world waiting for them to come to their senses and see that it was all a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 02:34 AM

Hey Acme....."Social media allows people to see only what they want to see"......You're ON social media!!!.....so the energy you put into a system tends to change that system....so you might want to check yourself out..before you spout!


...jeez, it even rhymes....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 04:18 AM

Well I've had a look at TV footage, and it all seems like an organised attempt to disrupt a perfectly legal political rally.

If people disagree on policies of other candidates they are free to say so, to hold rallies of their own and put the alternative case.
To stop political meetings being held because one does not like the views of the organisers, is something completely different.

If the shoe was on the other foot and large groups of hooligans were disrupting Mrs Clintons meetings.....this place would be seething.

We are SUPPOSED to be living in Democracies?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 04:31 AM

Akenaton: "Well I've had a look at TV footage, and it all seems like an organised attempt to disrupt a perfectly legal political rally."

It was reported, (again) that 'Move On' .org. had PAID certain people to disrupt it.
(Makes you wonder...they did it for MONEY???...gosh, What sincere depth of commitment!!!!

Akenaton: "If the shoe was on the other foot and large groups of hooligans were disrupting Mrs Clintons meetings.....this place would be seething."

Probably not....everybody seems to 'forget' that a Bernie Sanders' rally was disrupted, as well..last August.....Hmmm...Now what do Sanders and Trump have in common??
(I'll let them THINK about that one for a while...)

Akenaton: "We are SUPPOSED to be living in Democracies?"

But corporate officials are not elected...they're appointed....or they own or part own the corporation....!!.....and own the party bosses as part of the deal...

'Now what do Sanders and Trump have in common??'

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 04:49 AM

You begin to see how Trump's pet idiots reason their stupidity....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 05:39 AM

Yes, I see your point about political disruption Sanity.

I don't agree with Mr Trumps political stance, but He has performed a service in illustrating the corruption behind the US political establishment.
On the disruption issue, It is extremely dangerous and extremely easy to implement.....a microcosm is contained in these pages.

What is required is that people put aside their political differences and eradicate the hugely greater danger of intimidation and the silencing of free speech.

Sanity, though you may think that we differ greatly on political matters, I believe that we see things in much the same way. I also believe that you are a decent person with good insight on what motivates(or de-motivates) the electorate of your country.....Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 08:31 AM

"If the shoe was on the other foot and large groups of hooligans were disrupting Mrs Clintons meetings.....this place would be seething."

The shoe would be not on the other foot because Mrs. Clinton is not a hate monger.

What mystifies me is why Trump would hold a rally in such a racially diverse city as Chicago given all the race-baiting he's done and the violence he's encouraged against protesters at his rallys.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 08:46 AM

Why is Trump so popular? Because a substantial, and ever increasing, proportion of the Republican Party is willing to believe - or rather EMBRACE - any amount of preposterous bullshit that comes along while denying objective reality. The U.S. is turning into a nation of complete idiots:


MINEOLA, Tex., 12 March 2016— On Super Tuesday, Dale Clark voted for a local Republican who claimed on social media that President Obama had worked as a gay prostitute in his youth, that the United States should ban Islam, that the Democratic Party had John F. Kennedy killed and that the United Nations had hatched a plot to depopulate the world.

Mr. Clark, 75, was unaware that the candidate he had supported — Mary Lou Bruner, 68, a former kindergarten teacher running for a seat on the State Board of Education — held such views. But as he sat with his wife eating lunch in this East Texas city, Mr. Clark was ready to give Ms. Bruner the benefit of the doubt.

"I would not discount her on the basis of having those beliefs," said Mr. Clark, a retired pilot. "It convinces me, though, that she's quite conservative, and if I were going to err either way, I would want to err toward the side of the conservative."

Complete Article Here