BS: Demise of the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:02 AM

I'd rather have a Red in my Bed... Cor.. those Welsh socialist women.....

My mum warned me about them.... now I'm married to one.... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:22 AM

The SWP regarded entryism as a disastrous strategy and had nothing but contempt for Trotskyist fractions (like Militant and the IMG) who tried it. Les is seriously misinformed.

On the other hand, the SWP was prepared to take part in united front groupings, of which the anti-racist movements of the 1980s were the most successful. Labour Party members with no Trotskyist affiliation have to take a lot of the credit for what they achieved. But that doesn't happen any more, and it's Labour that failed. If they had been prepared to give the UKIP racists the same sort of kicking the National Front got, we wouldn't now have over a million European citizens living in the UK facing deportation. The sheer gutlessness of Labour's response to the racists' campaign beggars belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 12:32 PM

Who said anything about deportation? The migrants who arrived here under "free movement" are here quite legally and will not be deported.

More scaremongering!!

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Brian May
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 01:00 PM

"Who said anything about deportation? The migrants who arrived here under "free movement" are here quite legally and will not be deported.

More scaremongering!!"

Correct.

There isn't half a lot of absolute bollocks being spoken by people of all opinions flavoured by either political hue!

I truly believe as yet, nobody knows what's going to happen next. When a leader finally emerges from the morass, we may get somewhere.

We await the results of the two party's feeding frenzy (generally known as leadership contests).

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 01:32 PM

They won't be here legally any more once the UK is not bound by EU conventions.

More to the point, the people who voted for the UKIP racists wanted them out, and won't be satisfied until the freight wagons start rolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 04:05 PM

Corbyn seems to have found himself a band!!!
Screaming Lord Corbyn & The Savages!

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 04:10 PM

The Benns have been very good at dividing the labour party, however i think Tony was sincere whereas his son is a career politician.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:44 PM

So should he stay or should he go? As a non Labour supporter I don't have to make a choice. What do you lot think?

I never thought I'd say this but I'm beginning to feel quite sorry for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:52 PM

Oh, I wouldn't feel sorry for him as I'm sure his friends in Hamas and Hezbollah will find something to accommodate him.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 08:53 PM

Troll. Doubtless I'll get a PM telling me that you're harmless really and that the mods mildly disagree with you but that your voice must be heard. You're disgusting and you blight this forum constantly with your racist bile. And you're a confirmed forum cheat to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 08:53 PM

Troll. Doubtless I'll get a PM telling me that you're harmless really and that the mods mildly disagree with you but that your voice must be heard. You're disgusting and you blight this forum constantly with your racist bile. And you're a forum cheat to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:17 PM

London bus syndrome.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:18 PM

Jeremy Corbyn speaking as patron of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign 2009: "It will be my pleasure and honor to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I've also invited our friends from Hamas to come and speak as well"

Of course, in addition to their antisemitism, both groups, as Professor Alan Johnson has noted, oppose "everything the labour movement has ever stood for: trade union rights, freedom of speech and organisation, women's equality, gay and lesbian rights, anti-racism, the enlightenment, and reason".

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:35 PM

Do you absolutely HAVE to post that puke, Boo? Can't you just give it a rest for once?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 09:39 PM

Well, you certainly don't stand up for the labour movement (you have been crowing over the problems of the Labour Party), anti-racism (the precise opposite in fact), enlightenment (you don't know the meaning of the word) or reason (you're a blind bigot). And you certainly don't stand up for honest dealing with people, as you've shown repeatedly on this forum with your secret second identity.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:58 PM

.. I suppose bobad's random spurts of bile do serve one useful purpose...

..at the very least he reminds me why I should strive to not grow old and bitter wallowing in hate & resentment...


cheers bob.... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:51 AM

Looking from a "liberal" stance, Bobad has a point, I suppose that is why none of you challenge his actual statements.

I am not a "liberal", but a Socialist so can see both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:57 AM

Labour needs to learn the recent lessons of The Irish Labour Party who voluntarily eclipsed itself out of existence by throwing its support behind right-wing parties.
The British Labour Party has been under attack from the Antisemitic
, extreme right-wing Israeli dirty-tricks campaign and those Antisemites (led by Bobad and his ilk), all all present and correct of this thread - no problem in choosing sides here - you only have to look at the old usuals.
Labour many need stronger leadership (always a suspicions phrase when you look back at Hitler, Pinochet and his friend Thatcher and such 'strong leaders' of the past, but above all, it needs principle and compassion based on the old values.
The mob of careerist jackals at present scrabbling for leadership is the last thing Britain or Labour needs.
I stopped voting altogether when Blair's sun rose - he reduced Britain's politics to the Tweedledum-Tweedledee level in one fell swoop
Had I still been in Britain I might have reversed that decision with the advent of Corbyn - a new broom with real values and compassion long lacking in British politics.
Without and alternative Britain is heading for racist-based isolationism and a same-as-ever social policy of continuing to make the less-well-off pay.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:16 AM

Whatever impression you have of Bobad as a person, why can you not just answer his points?
Abuse is cheap and means nothing.
Do you challenge those quotes he gave from Corbyn and Johnson?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 04:42 AM

I wonder if Bobad understands the term "a figure of speech" in relation to calling someone "our friends"

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 06:08 AM

"I am not a "liberal", but a Socialist so can see both sides."

I'm sorry Ake, but you're arguments show are not a socialist. A Socialist would never, ever support Farage as you have on these threads. He is polar opposite of a socialist: regressive, xenophobic, devoid of tolerance, compassion and bereft of intellectual integrity but full of guile and deceit.


No socialist would ever, ever offer support for that odious, lying old soak.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 06:27 AM

Kindly spell out what "points" you wish me to address, Keith. Until you do, and quite possibly after you do, by defending him you tar yourself with the same racist, bigoted brush as he is. Your suspect-Islamophobe credentials are, after all, well known to us here. As for getting old, etc., pfr, well he sounds to me like a petulant thirteen-year-old who's copycatting out the same brainless racism as his racist school chums. And let's never forget, in spite of the indulgent and forgiving nature of our mods, that this person only stopped cheating us with his secret dual identities when he was forced to by the rule change. That is not a claim from me, that is confirmed. Come on, Keith, tell us why we should respect a single word he says. You want to put yourself in bed with liars and cheats, so let me turn it round on you and challenge YOU to tell us what opinions he has that you agree with. Until then, kindly stop asking us to "address his points." You may as well ask me to list Saddam's good attributes.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 07:04 AM

Damn, I'm sure that I'm a socialist anymore. I haven't drifted to the right like so many old white people have, but I'm not sure that any of the political ideologies extant provide any answers to the problems our society faces.

I'd love a genuine anti-establishment candidate and party to exist, but there isn't one. Corbyn is the closest we have but he's a thinker, not a leader. We need someone to challenge the culture of the Little Englanders, xenophobia and 'me first' attitude that is nurtured by unaccountable media moguls, global corporations and their political shills and the elite and establishment of a now totally dead empire.

I just don't know. I think perhaps a local, community-based approach is the way forward, encompassing the local economy, the social and heritage sectors and redefining our indentities at a local, even parochial level so we can find our place in the wider world whilst preserving our core values of equality, tolerance, compassion and the joy of a country that enjoys it's own diversity and welcoming to all who want to live here.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:37 AM

"Whatever impression you have of Bobad as a person, why can you not just answer his points?"
Whatever impression you have of Bobad as a person, why can you not just answer his points?"
Because he is an antisemitic racist troll - I try not to respond to trolls of any persuasion (present company accepted, of course).
You asked exactly the same question about his epic scanning of half a dozen pages lifted directly from the Islamophobic/racist Muslim Watch filth
You and he have made yourself an active part of the Israeli propaganda attack on British democracy - patriots - who'd have them!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:41 AM

Do you think Fidel Castro built his society on tolerance and compassion.......Or the People of Vietnam?

When fighting the system you have to fight it tooth and claw......remember Mr Blair's tolerant society.....It brought us war and rabid privatisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:49 AM

why can you not just answer his points?

Well, Professor, because it would be just about as productive as debating with a Holocaust denier, and would legitimize his bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:04 AM

Ake - these are socialist societies in name only, not practice, and very few socialists in this country would want a dictatorship or authoritarian regime in charge of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 09:10 AM

Stalin wasn't that bad a bloke really...
Just what the Labour party needs..
a strong charismatic leader and winner.... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:03 AM

a strong charismatic leader and winner....

Like The Trumpshit!

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:40 AM

Oops, Herr Corbyn puts his foot into it again, makes equivalence between Israel and ISIS.

From the Independant:

"Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those various self-styled Islamic states or organisations".


Sam Stopp, a Labour councillor in Wembley, said Mr Corbyn had compared Israel to Isis, writing on Twitter: "For that alone, he should resign. I am red with fury."

Ruth Smeeth, the Labour MP for Stoke-on-Trent North and Kidsgrove, who is Jewish, reportedly left the event in tears after a member of the Momentum group "accused her of colluding with the Daily Telegraph".

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:44 AM

From the Times of Israel:

Israel's Labor leader Herzog slams Jeremy Corbyn's 'betrayal of Labour values, hatred of Israel'; Lapid urges Labor to sever ties with UK counterpart, so long as 'anti-Semitism'-spouting Corbyn is in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:48 AM

Going well, all this.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:53 AM

2Do you think Fidel Castro built his society on tolerance and compassion."
Not tolerance certainly - too near the U.S. to take that chance (87 attempts to assassinate Castro).
Compassion is a different matter altogether
Prior to the Revolution, Cuba was a place where American tourists went to see stage performances of Cuban women being fucked by donkeys, it was referred to as "America's open sewer".
Despite decades of Trade embargo, attempted invasions, and the constant threat from the world's most powerful nation, the Castro regime has improved the lot of the Cuban people, has and education system the envy of the Third World (fancy educating slaves!!!) and a health service also regarded as among the best among nations in a similar situation and with Cuba's history.
The people of Vietnam are probably still traumatised by having burning jellified petrol and cancer-causing chemicals poured on them for nearly half a century by the "tolerant and compassionate" Yanks.
I don't suppose for one moment you'll even bother acknowledging any of this, so much is your concern for "tolerance and compassion!!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:53 AM

makes equivalence between Israel and ISIS.

Only in your mind, Boo - your English comprehension skills need work.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:00 AM

Steve,
Your suspect-Islamophobe credentials are, after all, well known to us here

No they are not. I have never so much as criticised Islam or any other religion. That is just another smear.

Come on, Keith, tell us why we should respect a single word he says.

You don't.
Just answer his points if you can, and hold the abuse when you can't.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:06 AM

"Just answer his points if you can, and hold the abuse when you can't."
As usual Keith, you have been answered over and over again - the fact that you have been given the answers that don't suit you is your problemIt is you who refuses to respond to what is put up - as usual.
You and Bobad are a pair of racist Antisemites who have chosen to Attack a democratically elected leadership riding Israel's propaganda bike and have made up some of your own propaganda on the way - says it all really!!.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:10 AM

Corbyn's statement was reasonable and conciliatory. Of course, there are plenty of empty-headed opportunist hawks around him who will jump on his every word. There was no equivalence between ISIS and Israel in that comment whatsoever. For that, you'd be saying that Israel is like ISIS. Which was neither said nor implied. If you disagree, explain it in your own words, not by some unlinked reference to a a gutter newspaper in Israel.

I note that Shami Chakrabarti's report did not find Labour to be awash with racism, as Keith and Bobad hoped it would. Wonder what she'd find in the Tory party or the Church of England. Or Keith's favourite, UKIP. The mind boggles.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 11:26 AM

Spot on, Jim. They both abuse this forum's inclusive nature, which I don't object to as it happens, by spouting this intolerance. Keith, you dress up your rampant Islamophobia by pretending that you're "just putting Israel's side of the story." You defend and ally yourself with a man who calls decent people Jew-haters and who accuses Hamas of killing the Gaza civilians slaughtered by the IDF. He has just referred to Jeremy Corbyn as a Nazi. Anything to say about that, Keith? You defend well-catalogued massacres of Palestinian refugees even though their main facilitator Sharon was widely condemned and was forced to step down from his post of defence minister. Silence and denial in the face of clear injustices meted out to Palestinians and the company you keep here so uncritically makes you Islamophobic. Then there was the shameful Rochdale episode here... By your fruits do we know you.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 12:21 PM

I would give you Israel's side of those stories again, but this thread is not about Israel.
Do start one or reopen one of the dozens we already have.

Steve, you again accuse me of "rampant Islamophobia" when, unlike you and Jim, I have never offered even the mildest criticism of Islam or any other religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 01:34 PM

Islamophobia, like antisemitism, applies to people, not organised religion. You have never expressed an ounce of sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians and, along with the cheat otherwise known as bobad, have always squarely blamed them for their predicament, blind to the fact that the vast majority of them are completely innocent people. You deny every atrocity perpetrated on them by the Israeli regime, including massacres of refugees that are generally recognised as such. You think it's fine for Israel to steal their land. That's Islamophobia. I have expressed my sympathy so many times on this forum for all the people of Israel and wished them prosperity and security. I've condemned both Hamas and Israel for attacking each other. I have never heard the converse from you, always denying that Israel has done anything wrong, even when they shell areas where they know there will be children. You have a one-track mind that we have all seen here over and over again ad nauseam. I'm sorry that mentioning Israel in this thread makes you feel uncomfortable. What you don't realise is that that shows how threadbare and bigoted your thinking is. You recently started a thread linking the Labour Party with anti-Israel comments and smeared the party with antisemitism slurs. You can't complain when people bring up Israel in a thread in which it may be relevant to do so. Tell your cheating friend to stop calling a perfectly decent man a Nazi because he mentioned Israel. Otherwise your credibility is even more shot then it already is.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 01:40 PM

I note that Shami Chakrabarti's report did not find Labour to be awash with racism,

The Independent 2 hours ago,
"The MP (Ruth Smeeth)called for Mr Corbyn to resign after the incident, saying he failed to intervene.

"Until today I had made no public comment about Jeremy's ability to lead our party, but the fact that he failed to intervene is final proof for me that he is unfit to lead, and that a Labour Party under his stewardship cannot be a safe space for British Jews," Ms Smeeth added."
BBC 3 hours ago,
"The Labour Party is not overrun by anti-Semitism or other forms of racism but there is an "occasionally toxic atmosphere", an inquiry has found.
Shami Chakrabarti, the chairwoman of Labour's inquiry into anti-Semitism, said there was "too much clear evidence... of ignorant attitudes".

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 01:43 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36672022

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-ruth-smeeth-jewish-mp-accused-of-colluding-with-media-a7111061.html

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:22 PM

And the Tory Party, UKIP and the Church of England? Or is there no toxic atmosphere because they all agree? Do tell us.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:55 PM

Not quite sure the point of your link Keith unless it's a way of admitting you were wrong about there being a great deal of Antisemitism in the Labour Party and suggesting that "many" Labour members and "The NEC were worried that there aws - though I think we've seen the last of your apologising for anything after your appalling slurs on Jo Cox.
There never was a worrying amount of Atisemitism in the labour Party and what there was is down to the Israeli propaganda machine using the Jewish People as a whole as an excuse for their crimes.
I think Corbyn is wrong in attempting to silence those who use Nazi comparisons for what is happening in modern Israel - if Holocaust survivors, ex Mossad chiefs and Jews throughout the world can make such a comparison, so can the rest of us.
Israel has made the ter4m "Antisemitism" totally meaningless - in doing so, they have painted targets on all Jews and cleared a path for real Antisemites.
Ruth Smeeth
is the director of The Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) which is a UK-based organisation which acts to promote awareness of Israel and the Middle East in the United Kingdom. BICOM publishes materials on the history, economy, culture and politics of Israel, Middle East peace plans, terrorism in the Middle-East, UK-Israel relations and foreign policy.
She is a pro Isreali activist - proof that the Labour Party is riddled with such people rather than with Antisemites.
This whole thing has been an exercise in pro-Israeli propaganda from day one.
"but this thread is not about Israel."
Not to you maybe Keith, but you are a pro-Israeli activist - what else would you do?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:56 PM

NYTimes- The British Left's Jewish Problem

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:18 PM

Quite so, Jim. Keith never mentions the extremely strong and healthy Labour Friends Of Israel (good luck to 'em - no objection from me, as long as they carry on aligning themselves with the Israeli Labor Party and not, unlike the party Keith supports, Bibi and his stinking henchmen) who have a damn sight more MPs in tow than have ever had to be suspended for cod-antisemitism. So hypocritical, Keith. Ever looked round at your fellow Sunday worshippers and wondered how many of 'em harbour antisemitic or otherwise racist views? Would you like to suggest an honest enquiry, as Labour has just had? Nah, thought not. Thick carpet, handy broom.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:22 PM

Israeli propaganda campaign

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:37 PM

I note that Shami Chakrabarti's report did not find Labour to be awash with racism,

I note that Shami Chakrabarti is a member of the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:47 PM

Unlike you, Shami is far and away one of the most respected and fair-minded citizens of this country and you, being the cheating little scumbag you are, are completely unworthy to even mention her name, let alone try to smear her as you've just done. Tell us, what party are you a member of, cheat?

Subject: RE: BS: Demise of the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:54 PM

I am definitely not a member of a party that allies itself with anti-semitic, genocidal, terrorist groups.