BS: Our Apology

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Andrez
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 07:43 AM

Right on Stu!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 01:04 PM

My feeling now is I cannot do anything about the direction of the country or the election. I can prevent the bastard from visiting my home via tv. When he shows up, tv off. Not in home he doesn't visit in any form

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 04:49 PM

Dan, you're just pissed that you won't get you're boots up on that desk in the oval office....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 06:19 PM

You really do think this is all just the equivelant of a football match, don't you Ake? Just like BeardedBS does.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 08:08 PM

Listen Greg, I don't want to offend you and as I've said many times I admire your consistency, but you deserve all you got in the election.

You had a real reformer who although "selling out" his supporters when the battle was lost, could have beaten Mr Trump, but the "liberal intelligencia" could not stomach real change, in fact they don't want change at all, they just want a nice bit of posturing while the country and the world go down the fucking pan.
"liberals" are the problem, they are the impediment to the construction of a fair, equitable society.....they simply get in the fucking way. They are not stupid, they do not lack education, they have no excuses. They like things just as they are, with a few smokescreens like "homosexual marriage" thrown in.
They denigrate institutions which benefit society like the Church and the Family, while promoting drug use and promiscuity.

They are the wrecking crew for an economic system in terminal decline and Western "developed" countries will not begin a revival campaign until they are sidelined and made to understand that everything cannot be given as a right, many important things must be worked for and sacrifices made to achieve. The political world is changing fast and the "liberals" are already becoming the dinosaurs
They are the reason the Republicans are going into government and not the Democrats. Save your abuse for those who chose Mrs Clinton over Mr Sanders, for those who voted for "more of the same", not because Clinton was the lesser of two evils but because they had not the guts or the foresight.

Finally you like to throw around words like racist, homophobe, bigot, idiot, xenophobe at anyone who does not share "liberal" ideology, how patronising, do you think that is a sensible way to conduct debate? to change people' minds? or is it more likely to promote a siege mentality? I believe it deserves one of your favourite words "Fascism". Fascism of the over educated and socially inadequate.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 08:15 PM

Ake some truth to that Lol

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 08:38 PM

I'm sincerely sorry for your disappointment Dan.

I used to go for the little brown trout who inhabit the wee burn behind my house...lovely and sweet in oatmeal......now I go to the fishmonger for a pound of North Sea Haddock containing all the contaminants a man could wish for......sad days! I can be just as depressed as you ....keep well.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 08:40 PM

My agnosticism is kicking in big time. He {She} gave us Donald J. Trump and took away Leonard Cohen? To quote Dick Cavett when he was asked to comment on the demise of a colleague, "Why is it never Cheney?"

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 09:29 PM

Ake, do keep ranting on if it pleases you, but as many folks besides me have told you, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

And taking your last screed aside, how does any of that make Trump any less a piece of absolute shit?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 04:07 AM

To those struggling with the term "liberal" I would recommend reading the following article that explains neolibralism. It is a bit hard going but worth the effort.

Neolibralism

If you do not get to the end take away this paragraph at least.

It may seem strange that a doctrine promising choice and freedom should have been promoted with the slogan "there is no alternative". But, as Hayek remarked on a visit to Pinochet's Chile – one of the first nations in which the programme was comprehensively applied – "my personal preference leans toward a liberal dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism". The freedom that neoliberalism offers, which sounds so beguiling when expressed in general terms, turns out to mean freedom for the pike, not for the minnows.

Once we understand the issues we can begin to address them and using the correct terms without conflating the ideas of liberalism and nelibralism is a good start.

Enjoy

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 04:25 AM

My agnosticism is kicking in big time. He {She} gave us Donald J. Trump and took away Leonard Cohen? To quote Dick Cavett when he was asked to comment on the demise of a colleague, "Why is it never Cheney?"

Well in the "In Memoriam" column of our local paper I quite often read in the entries that "God only takes the best." Well I think that's slightly inaccurate. He does take the whole lot, but he leaves the worst for as long as possible, as they are the last thing he wants cluttering up the place. By that tenet, unfortunately for us, Trump is probably destined to live to about 124.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 06:12 AM

Sorry but I must add to my last post as I have not made it clear to those who cannot or will not read and comprehend the article.

Friedrich Hayek was one of the founders of modern neolibralsism. The quote I gave was meant to be an example of where he was coming from and, believe me, preferring Picochet's Chile to a liberal democracy is not a good thing by anyone's measure.

Hope this helps.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Hrothgar
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:00 AM

"Apologize for their existence but not for the entire American people who participate in the American experiment of Democracy."

Donuel, I hate to break the bad news, but it appears that about 46% of eligible voters did not participate in the American experiment of Democracy this time around.

We have compulsory voting here, and thank God for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:08 AM

Once we understand the issues we can begin to address them
AH! 'Kelvin's Caution' is "to measure is to know"
Lord Kelvin ( Sir William Thomson )

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:14 AM

While the Americans think an apology is needed for half the nation exercising their right to vote , they might like to apologise for the rioters who violently oppose the result of that right to vote.   It remains to be seen how trump will do , but I'm sure he will upset most on here . However, he is already showing that he is not intransigent following a positive meeting with Obama , and is sounding conciliatory with Hillary . Of course whatever he does now will be criticised by one extreme or the other, but I reckon the haters on here are willing him to fail!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:21 AM

Thank you Mr Red - Good collection of wise words there. Immediately below the one you quote is "If you can not measure it, you can not improve it." :-)

I wonder if the Obama haters on here who were willing for the prior incumbent to fail now like the boot being on the other foot. I suspect not as it does seem to be human nature to not accept what is good for the goose is also good for the gander!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:26 AM

"an apology is needed for half the nation exercising their right to vote ,
Been here before Pete - maybe you weren't listening
The Nazis voted into office
If decent people had taken to the streets to protest at the time, there would have been a lot more Jews around today.
Perhaps we all should learn from history?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:34 AM

Perhaps its worth repeating this here - does no harm anyway

"would be as nothing compared to the numbers who voted to make Mr Trump president"
Do you know how many Germans voted Hitler into power Ake - would you have howled as loudly if good Germans had taken to the streets to protest that "democratic"victory - a rhetorical question - I know the answer to that one) ?
This "democratic" victory will have repercussions world wide - not only do I hope this display of opposition continues and spreads in the U.S., but I hope it takes on over here - in fact, I hope it becomes a worldwide movement.
America has elected a racist, antisemitic, homophobic, misogynistic, hate-spreading thug as president - none of this description is disputed - we watched him proving it throughout the election campaign.
A man who has suggested at least six times that nuclear weapons are the answer to many of today's problems now has his finger on the nuclear trigger.
Democracy my arse - the safety and well being of the people are far more important than the sham democracy that enables a man like Trump - a man with no track record or obvious ability - to buy his way into office.
Our governments will appease this man, no matter whether he restricts his actions to his election promises or adds to them tenfold - he is now CiC of the world's most powerful state.
This persistent swing to the extreme right has to be stopped or the Holocaust will look like a minor traffic accident in comparison to what might happen.
Trump, May, Netanyahu, Putin..... and possibly LePen - not a world I hoped to have left to those who follow me.
I hope to see them out on the streets in their millions before these monsters infect the world with their diseased minds.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 10:24 AM

Here come the Trumpite cockroaches- and you ain't seen nuthin yet!

***

Schools report racist incidents in wake of Trump election

Errin Haines Whack and Jay Reeves, Associated Press
Saturday, November 12, 2016

In the wake of Donald Trump's election, reports of racist incidents are emerging from the nation's schools and universities, including students who chanted "white power" and called black classmates "cotton pickers."

Reporting by The Associated Press and local media outlets has identified more than 20 such encounters beginning on Election Day, many involving people too young to cast a ballot.

On Wednesday, minority students at a high school in Gurnee, Illinois, organized a meeting and protest after a "whites only" message was found scrawled on a bathroom door. The same day in Michigan, students at Royal Oak Middle school were filmed chanting "build a wall" in the cafeteria.

At Trump's alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, black freshmen were added to a group chat in which one post read "daily lynching," and one participant was called a "dumb slave." The Penn president said the chat appeared to be based in Oklahoma and that university police were trying to locate the exact source.

Also in Pennsylvania, two students at the York County School of Technology held a Donald Trump sign in a hallway as someone shouted "white power," an incident captured on video and widely shared on Facebook.

The morning after the election, leaflets from the Ku Klux Klan showed up in a neighborhood in Birmingham, Alabama. At Central Texas University in San Marcos, police were investigating who posted fliers Thursday around campus urging the formation of "tar and feather vigilante squads" and threatening to "arrest and torture" campus diversity advocates.

In Durham, North Carolina, two walls were spray-painted with the statement "Black lives don't matter and neither does your vote."

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 10:55 AM

My apologies to the 10 year olds who walk into lunch rooms that are chanting "Build the Wall...", so angrily it make skin less than lily white crawl.

My apologies to every border town that will lose their entire economy when a wall stops their blood flow of goods and dollars.

My apologies to the young women raped by a legitimized entitlement of male trumpists.

My apologies to all those who were duped despite the fact they should have known better.

My apologies to the morally challenged starved into submission who supported Trump.

Trump is a setback for decades, enough to lose hope of steering climate effects for the better, I am sorry Earth.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 05:42 PM

Any of that happened Donuel? Or does all of that have the same stamp of Donuel truth as your blatant lies about Senator John McCain?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 04:16 AM

"Any of that happened Donuel? "
Give Trump Time - has only just won.
Trumpitania wasn't built in a day.
That is a fair summing up of the possible consequences of electing such a man.
Your support for an openly-declared racist, misogynist, antisemitic, blundering thud doesn't surprise me in the least - par for your particular course
Isn't it interesting that none of these people actually get around to denying what trump is and what he stands for?
All their birthdays seem to have come at the same time on this one.
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 04:54 AM

Schools report racist incidents in wake of Trump election

Post Brexit we got these. The key to it is not to let it pass - make a stand.

There was in Britain a Safety Pin Campaign. Those wearing one were signifying they dislike the trend, and more importantly were a person a victim could goto in the event.

I have a rather large one in red but I have to hang it from a regular sized one to not distress my 64 red T-Shirts. (Some carry precious memories)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:12 AM

Trump has announced that building a wall to keep Mexicans out was "just talk" and that he has no intention of scrapping Obamacare - a double whammy really.
He's exposed himself as a liar and has hung his supporters out to dry by allowing themselves to expose themselves as what kind of people they are.
Never mind - he might have thrown them a bone - Sarah Palin is tipped as Minister of the Interior
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:22 AM

Jim ....Obamacare will be scrapped, but there are bits of the bill which will of course be retained in new legislation.....I don't think that could possibly be avoided. I see no contradictions, the controversial sections are where costs of obtaining healthcare for some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:33 AM

Why shouldn't they riot,Pete. The candidate they voted for got the most votes but still didn't win the election. This ridiculous electoral college system has yielded yet another dangerous incompetent, as it did 16 years ago, making a mockery of the one man, one vote concept. I hope they stay pissed off so Herr Trump remains aware that he has anything but a mandate for the next 4 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:38 AM

Sarah Palin, the lass who put alas in Alaska!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 06:04 AM

"Obamacare will be scrapped"
He was on the hot-line to you this morning, was he?
"but there are bits of the bill which will of course be retained in new legislation"
Of course - why waste all that money on the undeserving poor?
"I don't think that could possibly be avoided"
You would say that - you being you.
"I see no contradictions"
He said he was building a wall - he lied
He promised to scrap Obamacare - he lied
No contradictions - just lies.
"some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."
Breed like rabbits, the poor, don't they?
You're a caricature Ake - a caricature!!!
Makes the cereal and toast go down a treat on a rainy Sunday morning
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 06:22 AM

John Cleese has spoken
or was it him?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 07:36 AM

Jim, is it failing eyesight or do you continually misquote people on purpose?    I hope it is the former.

I don't think you are really that devious, just ideologically challenged.

" I see no contradictions, the controversial sections are where costs of obtaining healthcare for some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."   a completely different meaning than the one you tried to impugn.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 08:35 AM

"Jim, is it failing eyesight or do you continually misquote people on purpose?   "
You are coming down with a nasty dose of the Teribus's - please don't talk down to me - neither you nor he are tall enough to talk down to anybody - it doesn't work for him, and he's infinitely better at putting up smokescreens and straw man
You said ""Obamacare will be scrapped" - it won't, according to Trump.
What will almost certainly happen is that the money spent on the most needy will be cut to pay for the better off needy - an old right trick to keep working people on their side - and divided.
However, I didn't draw my conclusion from that, but your previous displayed contempt for any form of "dependence state" (your words) because it will inevitably be misused and exploited by the users (your accusations).
Perhaps if you cleaned up your act, people wouldn't keep pointing out what an extremely unpleasant right-wing individual you are.   
One again - stop talking down to me - or anybody - you simply aren't good enough to strut your superiority in front of any here.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 08:47 AM

You hope that Jim has failing eyesight now, do you? Well it's a good job for you that our dreams don't come true, for who knows what bits of you would be rolling all over the floor by now?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 09:49 AM

Sorry, don't understand the last two posts, but suppose they must be some sort of juvenile threat?
Jim has(deliberately?) misquoted me in two recent threads, I do not think that is permissible on this forum.

I am prepared to accept an apology .....if he has the balls for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 09:54 AM

Just one worrisome problem, how does Jim know how tall or short I am?
Perhaps he has been communicating with my pet stalker (Musket) who used to follow me about my village attempting to spread shit around?

I am of average height for a man of my age.....but strong as a bear....Beware!!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:14 AM

Just because Musket isn't here keeping and eye on you doesn't mean you get to spread shit around at will.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:22 AM

H.L. Mencken got it right:

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:33 AM

"Just one worrisome problem, how does Jim know how tall or short I am?"
Mantally Ake, mentally!!
Just had a nasty round of fisticuffs with Muskett - would be difficult to squeeze a credit card between the personalities of the pair of you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:41 AM

Clarence Darrow also nailed it with this bit of satire:

When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become President. Now I'm beginning to believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:51 AM

No shit Acme!

Jim, lest there be any misunderstanding, I don't wish failing eyesight on you, I am not that sort of person, but at our age failing eyesight is a fact of life.....I suffer the problem myself and understand mistakes can be made, but the quotes were definitely not mine as I think you will see if you take the time to re-read.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 11:08 AM

off message response

Is it the missile that was fired from the jet Mc Cain was seated in while parked on the deck of the carrier that resulted in a conflagration that's got you holding a grudge or the over 35 votes he cast to deny additional benefits to veterans that has you eternally upset. There are so many other instances that cast him in an honorable light to remember. Nobody is perfect.


the first scenario has happened to millions of kids whose skin crawls to the vociferous hate chants, the rest have a future pov.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 11:19 AM

In case there is a misunderstanding Ake - I don't care one way or the other - I'm far more concerned about your very disturbing politics
I would hate to thing that an independent Scotland could end up with a Donald MacTrump in the shape of yourself.
"but the quotes were definitely not mine"
If you mean the "leftie" one - I know that and have apologised
Can't think of another you might be talking about.
Clarence Darrow - one of my heroes until he defended Leopold and Loeb.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 11:34 AM

Apology accepted Jim, thanks.....water under the bridge...eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 01:01 PM

"Apology accepted Jim, thanks.....water under the bridge...eh?"
Yes thank you -and no
What took you so long?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 01:27 PM

Sorry to see that Jim, here is the quote which you amended to make look racist.
" I see no contradictions, the controversial sections are where costs of obtaining healthcare for some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 03:11 PM

"Sorry to see that Jim, here is the quote which you amended to make look racist."
You've got me there twice Ake
"Racist"
I really didn't know that the poor were a "race" - I always thought they were a section of a social class - you live and learn!!
I wonder if that wasn't a Freudian slip on your part - yo know - all blacks, or Asians, or West Indians are.....?
Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
"Amended"
I amended nothing - nor did I attempt to distort what you said..
I paraphrased what you have said in the past (I've already said this - remember "dependency state") and took it too what a logical conclusion with people who hold your views - sort of middle/class cum Tory ones about the poor having too many children.
You don't appear to realise you are a stereotype of the worst aspects of an unequal society - very easy to caricature, which is what I did and all I intended to do.
None of your attitude will ever be "water under the bridge" for me" - your attitude to immigrants, particularly those in dire trouble, has made sure of that.
One of the last jobs I did in London was to make safe the wiring for an Asian customer.
He had had petrol poured though his letterbox and set fire to - his five year old daughter had been burned around the face and lost part of her hair.
While I wouldn't suggest for one moment that you would do such a thing, acts such as this are instigated by people like you who instigate hate with your bigotry and intolerance, so you can excuse me if I prefer to keep a distance between us.
I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that Donald Trump has declared that he will deport between two and three million immigrants
Don't you wish our Govenment had the bottle to do the same??
Jim Carroll

.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 04:38 PM

I'm sorry Jim, but you are simply wrong, here is how you distorted what I said.....

"some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."
Breed like rabbits, the poor, don't they?


Again, here is my post.....
" I see no contradictions, the controversial sections are where costs of obtaining healthcare for some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."........you are a proven weasel Jim,
and an ungracious one at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:28 PM

" Donuel - 13 Nov 16 - 11:08 AM

off message response

Is it the missile that was fired from the jet Mc Cain was seated in while parked on the deck of the carrier that resulted in a conflagration that's got you holding a grudge"

No grudge Donuel, I just do not like people who spread deliberate lies as you have done. John McCain flew a Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, ground attack aircraft and he was sitting in his aircraft when a rocket from wing station of a parked McDonnell Douglas F-4B Phantom II fired and hit the external fuel tank of a Skyhawk parked beside McCain's aircraft. The rocket did not explode but it's motor caused the escaping fuel to ignite which caused the conflagration that resulted in the deaths of 134 sailors. Lt-Cdr John McCain had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:47 PM

And yet, more Trumpist cockroaches. Sieg Heil Trump!!

------

While all sides of the political spectrum have reported problems, Andrew Anglin, a vocal Trump supporter and a leader of the alt-right movement, called explicitly for intimidation of "brown people" on his neo-Nazi website, The Daily Stormer.

"I am of course against any violence against these people," he wrote. "However, I do think you should yell at them. We want them to feel that everything around them is against them. And we want them to be afraid."

The Southern Poverty Law Center created a web page on Thursday to funnel the reports, and received more than 200 within 24 hours. They also started an online petition, which had more than 35,000 signatures as of Friday, asking Mr. Trump to condemn the behavior.

Which the Trumpshit has not done.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 06:01 PM

Q I'm sure if Hillary had won under the same system you would not be harping on about one Man one vote . As it happens, I agree that's how it ought to be , and perhaps the system should be changed, but not retrospectively because you don't like the outcome . And then go round rioting . And nazi parallels are distasteful and grossly exaggerated and are the result of different opinions .

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 06:56 PM

"I am of course against any violence against these people," he wrote. "However, I do think you should yell at them. We want them to feel that everything around them is against them. And we want them to be afraid."

Definitely "grossly exaggerated and the result of a different opinion"