Folklore: Automatic Gestures

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: ripov
Date: 04 Dec 16 - 01:36 PM

I think you'll find 'tutting' originally meant spitting, as in the pub name 'Tut and Shive', ie 'spit and sawdust' It still is used by some as a gesture of disapproval (or maybe warding off evil) when they see a person of another race, although it is becoming 'normalised' as they say, by the behaviour of sportspersons.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 04 Dec 16 - 01:51 PM

Interesting about the Irish. One post is about the oppression of the Irish, another about widespread witchcraft. Is there a correlation?

IOW, did the witchcraft preceed the opression, or is the witchcraft the result of opression?

And, about the Irish and words; lots of Irish clergy in the US, so many in fact one guy was bragging that not all that long ago all the archbishops in the United States were Irish. The other guy hesitatingly said; uh, well...yeah, then changed the subject.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: GUEST,Senoufou
Date: 04 Dec 16 - 02:12 PM

Hahahaha Steve! Do you always check who's calling before saying that, or do you say it anyway? Our number is the same but for one digit as a nearby hotel, and expecting a call from my sister, I once said my jokey thing without looking at the caller display. The person at the other end replied, "Er...hello Miss..er.. Knob. I'd like to order a table for four please..." It was several seconds before I could stop giggling long enough to explain they had the wrong number.

Donuel, I find tonal languages so interesting. I speak a little Cantonese, and the word for 'bread' sounds like 'meeeem bau'. The second sound has the note going right up. My husband speaks Malinke, and it has two tones, high and low. 'My house' is 'ngya bo' and the 'bo' drops right down in tone.

(Apologies for this disgraceful thread drift.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 16 - 02:38 PM

Oh yes, you have to check! Only the select few victims are in on the joke. Our number is just one digit different from the local cinema. Could have sold dozens of tickets over the years!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 04:39 AM

If you think of the English in Ireland in the 16th and 17th centuries, it's useful to reference ISIS. As Protestant fundamentalists, they broke up church art, tortured and burned non-Protestant clergy, stole church land and gave it to prominent fundamentalists. Their aim was to steal - redistribute - the good land to Protestants, and to wipe out the Papists, either directly as in Walter Ralegh and his stepbrother and friends' murders in Munster, or by deporting them to poor land on which it was impossible to live. And they were deeply superstitious, in much the same way as Isis fighters today; when Rory Óg O'More succeeded in escaping every ambush they set for him, they became convinced that he was a 'sorcerer'.
These were the same people who went off to what they named Jamestown in America - I saw a piece, in the National Geographic online, I think it was, recently that was all excited but baffled about strange goods found in the grave of one of the settlers - to anyone reading it with a little knowledge it was obvious that the marks were 'apotropaic' marks and the goods secret Mass goods, but the archaeologists hadn't copped to this. Obviously a secret English Catholic had smuggled himself in among these fundamentalist settlers, as the safest place to hide!
But we're creeping off topic a little here, interesting though it is. What about the pointing-to-heaven gesture made by Islamic fundamentalists all over the world now - is this a new gesture, or just newly publicised?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: GUEST,Senoufou
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 06:03 AM

Thompson, my husband (a Muslim) says he's never in his life seen or used that pointing upwards gesture. He says it's a Jihadi ISIS thing, and only That Lot use it!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 10:45 AM

Interesting. Signals like this come and go - the clenched-fist-bowed-head salute given at the Olympics some years ago to signify oppression of black Americans; the hidden-hand gesture common in portraits of 19th-century Fenians; Hitler et al's 'Roman' salute; the hand-on-heart gesture American children use when reciting the 'Plege of Allegiance'…

Then there are the gestures used to avert bad luck or call in good luck - crossed fingers; salt-over-left-shoulder; tapping a knife on another if they cross to avert a quarrel; touching or knocking on wood; the 'Live Long and Prosper' gesture from Star Trek.

Humans really have quite a rich non-verbal language when you think about it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: meself
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 12:39 PM

Hmmm ... pulling out your knife or knives to prevent a disagreement from escalating seems a little iffy ... !

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: GUEST,Senoufou
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 02:40 PM

I've often wondered why singers cover one ear with their hand. Is it to help with pitch?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 03:30 PM

To hear yourself as well as to hear any accompaniment (with the other ear). Your arm transmits some of your own sound to your ear. It works equally well with the harmonica. It looks like an affectation but it's very useful technique, certainly not "finger in the ear."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 03:41 PM

So you stick your harmonica in your ear Steve?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 03:55 PM

Marje, as is the custom, I always curtsey to my extremely elderly in-laws. And one should avoid eye-contact, looking firmly at the ground when speaking with them. I love doing it, as they're absolute sweeties and deserve much respect and deference.

Some tribes shield their mouths a bit when speaking to 'taboo' family members (mothers-in-law for example) or even address a convenient tree as a go-between!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 04:08 PM

I've been told to stick it in various other places...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 05:57 PM

meself, if knives cross, it's a sign (in Irish superstition) of an impending quarrel, and therefore you pick up one knife and tap the blade on the other's to stop the row.

Senoufou, you may be interested in this: black children normally roll their eyes up to signify respect; this caused or causes some anger among white teachers, who see it as 'giving cheek' when the kids are showing the respect they would show to their beloved grandmother.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: GUEST,Senoufou
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 06:20 PM

Steve, I'm dying laughing at you!

My Irish mother was always seeing doom and gloom in various 'signs' around the house. She used to fling salt behind her to get the better of The Devil. Knives and scissors were always signs of something or other. And an itchy palm was getting money or spending it, depending on which hand.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 09:14 PM

Nooo! The left palm itching is money, the right is you're going to meet someone! And if a knife falls on the floor, a man will visit, a fork a woman, a spoon a child! Nothing comes to mind for scissors, though.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Dec 16 - 11:27 PM

"I've often wondered why singers cover one ear with their hand. Is it to help with pitch?"
What Steve Shaw says - one of the oldest singing technique in the world
CLEAR EXPLANATION HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 04:42 AM

Cheers for that, Jim. I didn't actually realise that putting a finger IN the ear was a technique! I've used the cupping a lot, my only ever critic being Mrs Steve, who accuses me of suffering from a folkie affectation! She's no musician...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 05:53 AM

Ah, all is explained. Thank you.
Regarding scissors, it had something to do with giving a coin of some sort if you gave scissors as a gift, as they might 'cut' the friendship.
My father used to roll his eyes to heaven at these capers, but he never actually said anything.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Automatic Gestures
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 02:59 PM

I'd see that hand-to-chest gesture as expressing "Be still, my beating heart!"