BS: reign of terror

Subject: Hail Caesar
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:12 PM

Sinsull started a thread with the title:
Let All the Poisons that Lurk in the Mud [Hatch Out]
but that thread has been closed some time ago.

So this thread cannot have Sinsull's thread title,
but it is in the same spirit.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:39 PM

we all bleed the same red blood
we have made other countries rich while our own wealth has dissipated over the horizon
From this day forward it is only going to be America first
We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries
We will bring back our dreams, borders and wealth
2 rules, make and buy American.
We will make new alliances
This American carnage stops right now
We will get our people off welfare
I will never ever let you down
We will shine for everyone to follow
We will eradicate completely Islamic Terrorism from the face of the Earth
At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America
and through or loyalty to our country we will rediscover our loyalty to each other
When you open your heart to patriotism there is no room for prejudice

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:43 PM

did he really.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:46 PM

select but actual inaugural quotes

nothing about values of democracy, liberty, freedom, or pluralism

It was stark and dark.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:51 PM

I do approve of his pledge for better infrastructure.

The trains will probably run on time.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:56 PM

Il Douche?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:59 PM

precisely but more immature.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:16 PM

At this point there is no evidence of a reign of terror, only a pledge of ultra nationalism. - USA Uber Alles (above everything)

Sounds like Bannon banter

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:33 PM

A transcript of Trump's first speech as president follows.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Chief Justice Roberts, President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, fellow Americans and people of the world, thank you.

We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country and restore its promise for all of our people.

Together, we will determine the course of America and the world for many, many years to come. We will face challenges. We will confront hardships. But we will get the job done.

Every four years we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power.

And we are grateful to President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition.

They have been magnificent.

Thank you.

Today's ceremony, however, has a very special meaning because today we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, D.C., and giving it back to you, the people.

For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have bore the cost. Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth. Politicians prospered but the jobs left and the factories closed.

The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs. And while they celebrated in our nation's capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.

That all changes starting right here and right now, because this moment is your moment.

It belongs to you.

It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America.

This is your day.

This is your celebration.

And this, the United States of America, is your country.

What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people.

January 20th, 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.

The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. Everyone is listening to you now. You came by the tens of millions to become part of a historic movement, the likes of which the world has never seen before.

At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction that a nation exists to serve its citizens. Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families and good jobs for themselves.

These are just and reasonable demands of righteous people and a righteous public.

But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exists.

Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities, rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation.

An education system flush with cash but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge.

And the crime and the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

We are one nation, and their pain is our pain.

Their dreams are our dreams, and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home and one glorious destiny.

The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans.

For many decades we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military.

We've defended other nations' borders while refusing to defend our own. And we've spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.

We've made other countries rich while the wealth, strength and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon.

One by one, the factories shuttered and left our shores with not even a thought about the millions and millions of American workers that were left behind.

The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world. But that is the past, and now we are looking only to the future.

We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital and in every hall of power. From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land.

From this day forward, it's going to be only America first, America first. Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs will be made to benefit American workers and American families. We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our product, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs.

Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength. I will fight for you with every breath in my body, and I will never ever let you down.

America will start winning again, winning like never before.

We will bring back our jobs.

We will bring back our borders.

We will bring back our wealth, and we will bring back our dreams.

We will build new roads and highways and bridges and airports and tunnels and railways all across our wonderful nation.

We will get our people off of welfare and back to work, rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor.

We will follow two simple rules: Buy American and hire American.

We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world, but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first.

We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example.

We will shine for everyone to follow.

We will re-enforce old alliances and form new ones and unite the civilized world against radical Islamic terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the earth.

At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country we will rediscover our loyalty to each other.

When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.

The Bible tells us how good and pleasant it is when God's people live together in unity. We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity. When America is united, America is totally unstoppable. There should be no fear. We are protected and we will always be protected. We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement. And most importantly, we will be protected by God.

Finally, we must think big and dream even bigger. In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving. We will no longer accept politicians who are all talk and no action, constantly complaining but never doing anything about it.

The time for empty talk is over. Now arrives the hour of action.

Do not allow anyone to tell you that it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America. We will not fail. Our country will thrive and prosper again.

We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the earth from the miseries of disease, and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow.

A new national pride will stir ourselves, lift our sights and heal our divisions. It's time to remember that old wisdom our soldiers will never forget, that whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots.

We all enjoy the same glorious freedoms and we all salute the same great American flag.

And whether a child is born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the windswept plains of Nebraska, they look up at the same night sky, they fill their heart with the same dreams and they are infused with the breath of life by the same almighty creator.

So to all Americans in every city near and far, small and large, from mountain to mountain, from ocean to ocean, hear these words: You will never be ignored again. Your voice, your hopes and your dreams will define our American destiny. And your courage and goodness and love will forever guide us along the way.

Together we will make America strong again, we will make America wealthy again, we will make America proud again, we will make America safe again.

And, yes, together we will make America great again.

Thank you.

God bless you.

And God bless America."

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:34 PM

Do you really think he's going to make the trains run on time? So far, I've seen no indication that he and his disorganized rabble are capable of such efficiency. They seem utterly unprepared to take over what they've taken on. Just look at how they're bumbling the "let's get rid of Obamacare" business - they've only had eight years to get ready ....

I admit that in my heart I want to see this nasty person crash and burn, but in my head, I do hope he manages to bumble through without doing too much damage. I try not to think of the nuclear codes ....

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:36 PM

And they say he wrote that ALL BY HIMSELF!! What a clever boy!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:55 PM

Melania wrote her speech all by herself that by coincidence sounded like Michelle. If we are going to revise histoy we better start now.

I wish Schumer D and Blount R had not spoken so much about the American civil war this day.


real time...

Lots of flash bang grenades and pepper spray on 12th and Elm in DC, I heard at least 20 launches. There are only about 1,000 protesters.
Hard core protesters are dressed in all black and covered faces.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:06 PM

These are not the only people thinking of the War Between the States, by whatever name you call it, at a time like this.

Remember "Bleeding Kansas."

Roughly twenty years ago, I was driving cross-country. Being a ways south and west, in order to get to the turnpike that goes through Ohio and Pennsylvania, I had to go north as well as east, through Oklahoma and Missouri. Oklahoma had no surprises.

The only thing that happened during my drive through Missouri, is that my hackles went up and stayed up all along Interstate 44, until I took that bridge across the Mississippi River and put Missouri behind me. Oh, and I smelled something like smoke the whole time. In actual fact the place was calm and quiet, there was no obvious reason for me to be on edge.

Then years later, Ferguson, Missouri, goes up like a tinderbox.
This conflagration has been a long time coming. One hundred and fifty years ago, Kansas bled; today, Missouri burns. It will take a while, and probably a lot more trouble, before these fires are put out.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:47 PM

I got a chill hearing one of the sycophants read to Chump an excerpt from a speech of Lincoln's to Congress - all about the massive changes and challenges coming, and the extraordinary measures they would require - i.e., the stretching and bending of the Constitution. The implication of the whole thing seemed to be that destroying Obamacare and deporting immigrants - whoops! sorry, I mean "illegals" - are as noble and necessary as abolishing slavery, and justify whatever has to be done to accomplish them. And that the nation is essentially in the same state of peril that it was in 1860 .....

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:48 PM

Although I have hopes that Reign of Error may be a more accurate term for what's ahead ....

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:01 PM

When a new US president gives a speech, you'd expect that allies would be reassured and enemies afraid. With this one it's the reverse.

Garry Kasparov

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:21 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought American unemployment was already dropping like a stone in the last few years?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:25 PM

What the fuck is this garbage? Have you no cartoons to watch?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 05:53 PM

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought American unemployment was already dropping like a stone in the last few years?"

Hey - don't be a stick in the mud! We don't need no stinkin' facts!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 06:02 PM

smile time

For decades Don's Johns has supplied Mall events with portable rest rooms. This time they were ordered to cover up the word Don's with tape

Don's a little late for his parade, 2 hours late.

Blooper Announcements over loud speaker" If you have lost a child and you really want them back go to any law enforcement stand.

Ladies and gentlemen The Marine Corpse Band

Fearless leader saluted the New York Military Academy which was just purchased by a Chinese firm.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 06:19 PM

Cartoons? Well, this comedy of terrors is close enough to a cartoon ...

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 06:45 PM

From CNN

The 49-year-old driver, David Wilcox, told CNN affiliate WGN-TV that a car scraped the side of his vehicle as he was about to make a left turn at a busy intersection.
"I heard a lady yell something about 'that guy is one of those Trump supporters,' " Wilcox told the station. "I turned and said to her, 'That has nothing to do with this.'"
The situation then apparently escalated as bystanders yelled anti-Trump taunts at Wilcox. The video shows Wilcox being knocked to the pavement, repeatedly being punched and kicked as a handful of people gather around him.



Any comments from a responsible Liberal viewpoint? I guess being accused of being a Trump voter is enough reason to beat someone.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 06:55 PM

If this happened in the way it is recounted, then those anti-Trumpers behaved very badly. How's that?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 07:24 PM

Sounds about right. FACTS vs conjecture as to what someone MIGHT do in the future.





After being sworn in as the 45th President of the United States, Trump issued a call to arms and declared war on the ruling class.

"For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have bore the cost," Trump said. "Washington flourished, but the people did not share in its wealth."

"The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country. Their victories have not been your victories. Their triumphs have not been your triumphs," Trump noted. "And while they celebrated in our nation's capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land."

"That all changes starting right here and right now, because this moment is your moment."

At just over 15 minutes, Trump's address was short and to the point and free of the flowery prose that suggests a speechwriter far too eager to be remembered by history.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 08:05 PM

BB, you point that out as if the first stone was thrown by liberal bystanders, when Trump has been winding up people for months with his misbehavior and offensive remarks. And his supporters openly molest women and minorities with impunity, as it was modeled for them by Der Trump.

And as offensive as the man Trump is, I'm sure it is difficult for the opposition (not just liberal voters - a good many conservatives as well), to not act out their ire today. I hope none of the injury or property damage continues, it's not what Hillary supporters are about. At all.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Elmore
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 12:51 AM

A memorable day. The schmuck in chief was inaugurated which we, sore losers that we are, refused to witness on t.v. Later, and coincidentally I presume, my wife had a fainting spell. She seemed to recover, but an hour later, had what looked to my untrained eye to be a stroke. Called the ambulance, and spent several hours in hospital while she went through a battery of tests . The hospital folk said nothing about a stroke. Although she is in pain, her condition has improved. She has been kept in hospital for the night, while I'm at home drinking Scotch with Patron chasers. I tell you this because my dog and cat don't give a damn and because the hospital staff here in the North Georgia mountains, Trump fans all, are competent, loving people.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 01:16 AM

A piece on the US unemployment rate up to November from the Washington Post.

Quote: The U.S. economy added 178,000 jobs in November, while the unemployment rate fell to 4.6 percent, a level not seen since August 2007, according to government data released Friday morning. The first employment report since voters went to the polls last month shows an economy in strong shape as President-elect Donald Trump prepares to take office.

"It looks like firms are pretty bullish about what they're going to see in 2017 and are continuing their strong hiring of the past few years," said Steve Rick, chief economist at insurance company CUNA Mutual Group. "This is a good tailwind for the new administration."

and a quote later in the article:

"It is hard to imagine a more stark contrast between the economy that we are passing off to our successor and the economy we inherited," said Christopher Lu, the deputy secretary of the Labor Department.

American multinationals have certainly lifted the economies of China and India in the last three decades by manufacturing there;
Global poverty has fallen to a level inconceivable even 50 years ago.

Trump's stated plan to bring employment back to the haunted rust belts of America is a good one; I wonder if it will happen. Will the same multinationals that employ Chinese youth sleeping in multi-storey dormitories with suicide nets succeed in manufacturing in the United States and making profits; will the companies that employ Pakistani families like those who died in the garment factory fires of 2015 be welcomed to Baltimore's sorrowful streets?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 02:39 AM

Trump's "plan"?? He has a plan?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 04:58 AM

I found the statement he has signed a proclamation for a day of patriotism disturbing. A one off celebration may be one thing, but people setting themselves up as judges of whether others are being patriotic enough opens no end of dangers.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 05:22 AM

Notice that Don said that they bleed the same red blood of "patriots". This infers if you're not signing up to the idea of patriotism, and especially Don's version of patriotism, they you're an enemy of your country. That is disturbing rhetoric indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 02:40 PM

Let me be crystal clear about this

No One is demonstrating against Trump supporters outside his inner circle.

No one is gunning for bikers for Trump and their wall of meat.

There is no civil war planned by the left.

There is no hate campaign against TRUNP FANS who favor hate.


We rise against the strategists for Trump, for war, for private double dealing to enrich themselves with Trump approval.

We rise against Trump himself as a bully, liar and manipulator of hate and low information racists.


Elmore

To assume doctors and nurses from Georgia are all Trump fans, is presumptuous.

More importantly today, may your wife fully recover and feel well.



Stu you see as I do. I often ask myself how others can not see yet seem intelligent in other ways.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 02:52 PM

Anybody marching anywhere today?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 03:01 PM

Mrrzy, I'm in the Boston area but not marching. Just listening to the soundbites on the car radio. God bless the commuter rail operators. I guess the poor guys had those commuter trains on their usual Saturday/weekend schedule, that's to say fewer trains during the day. And there were so many riders converging on Boston from the 'burbs, using the commuter trains, that the train cars filled up to capacity.

The radio announcer described how the commuter rail people hurried to summon additional trains to pick up the riders left behind on the platforms as the regularly scheduled trains, their cars filled to capacity and maybe a little extra, rolled past the stations without stopping.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 04:06 PM

And here's the funny thing about life in a Boston exurb.

No, by the way, my town is not on a commuter line. People who live in my town have to drive their cars a fair distance and park, then board the commuter train. Unless they just drive the car. Anyway.

You know in whose company I have to watch my big mouth? the citizens who are voting in their very first presidential election, that's who. By which I mean, the YOUNGSTERS. Too young to have voted when the Bush dynasty was in the Oval office. These youngsters are going around with baseball caps that say MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN and spouting bile about Hillary.

Where do I encounter these youngsters, you ask? I'll tell you where: on the job, working their shifts. These aren't the wasters. These are the ones earning a minimum wage at the cash register.
Stops me in my tracks.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 04:40 PM

Whoa
Nelly
Madonna
!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 07:10 PM

Boston is the most intensely racist city in the north from my 5 year experience.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 07:42 PM

I lived there 6 years, hey, I'll be back for my umdiddy-fifth reunion this May...

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jan 17 - 11:52 AM

A couple of Canadian women I know went down to Washington to march.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Jan 17 - 01:49 PM

This is the perfect comment on Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: meself
Date: 22 Jan 17 - 02:31 PM

Kelly Anne Conway has come up with a new term for lies: "alternative facts" ... !! It would be hilarious if it weren't so scary.

So when Trump and Spicer say, for example, that the crowds at Trump's inauguration were the biggest in the whole history of crowds, they are not lying - they are presenting "alternative facts" ..... Un-freakin-believable.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 01:29 AM

So far all the violence and threats to resort to violence seem to have come from the side or purported liberalism, equality, tolerance and understanding. My, my just think what they would have done, how much further they would have gone, had it been their candidate that had succeeded?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 04:28 AM

"So far all the violence and threats to resort to violence seem to have come from the side or purported liberalism, equality, tolerance and understanding."
Funny - I could have sworn I heard the man himself say it was fine to walk up to any woman you fancied and sexually assault her
Maybe not terror or violence to some people, just boys being boys
Takes all sorts, I suppose!!
I would suggest that anybody who has taken to the streets is just reacting to that level of bestiality, especially as most of the demonstrations have been organised by women.
The "family values" contingent is awfully silent on that one!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 05:57 AM

On violence, US-style. Source: Centre for Research on Globalisation: "US has killed more than 20 million people in 37 'victim nations' since WWII."

This study reveals that U.S. military forces were directly responsible for about 10 to 15 million deaths during the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the two Iraq Wars. The Korean War also includes Chinese deaths while the Vietnam War also includes fatalities in Cambodia and Laos.

The American public probably is not aware of these numbers and knows even less about the proxy wars for which the United States is also responsible. In the latter wars there were between nine and 14 million deaths in Afghanistan, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo, East Timor, Guatemala, Indonesia, Pakistan and Sudan.

But the victims are not just from big nations or one part of the world. The remaining deaths were in smaller ones which constitute over half the total number of nations. Virtually all parts of the world have been the target of U.S. intervention.

The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.

To the families and friends of these victims it makes little difference whether the causes were U.S. military action, proxy military forces, the provision of U.S. military supplies or advisors, or other ways, such as economic pressures applied by our nation. They had to make decisions about other things such as finding lost loved ones, whether to become refugees, and how to survive.

And the pain and anger is spread even further. Some authorities estimate that there are as many as 10 wounded for each person who dies in wars. Their visible, continued suffering is a continuing reminder to their fellow countrymen.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 11:45 AM

Yes, Steve, let's all "Hop on Pop".

Your ridiculous rant conflating casualties/ victims/ with highly suspect concepts puts paid to the notion that "alternative facts" are originated by the Trump crew. They are a natural extension of the kind of nonsense you have posted (actually re-posted). You and Kellyanne Conway are an expression of the same notion: Pile on the factoids with any sort of logic you can twist to suit:
For a sample of the tortured logic, the "Center for Research on Globalization" includes the killings of the Khmer Rouge in that gargantuan figure.

I don't see you as exceptional. I see the Trump Effect as a sort of grand magnetic pull of grand nonsense from all sides to spawn an internet-wide shouting match that will become a Battle Royale which takes advantage of the diminishing attention span of the ruled from those who have 'seized' power.

It is an example of the attempt to swamp thought with information.

You are more a part of the problem than a part of the solution.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 12:25 PM

Not my rant, mate. Just a copy 'n' paste! I left you to do the ranting once you'd read it. 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 12:42 PM

Elmore, that is scary about your better half.
I sincerely hope her recovery is all that you and she would desire. How frightening.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 01:42 PM

Donuel


"No One is demonstrating against Trump supporters outside his inner circle."

That is not what is seen on the video of the various marches, nor from the comments of those interviewed.




"No one is gunning for bikers for Trump and their wall of meat."

No, they are attacking innocent store owners and burning limos. Pity the poor driver who is just trying to make a living.





"There is no civil war planned by the left."

You have provided no evidence to indicate this- it looks like a revolution to me. Perhaps this was what those of us who did not vote for Obama should have done??? Would you have given us the approval you have these marchers?



"There is no hate campaign against TRUNP FANS who favor hate."

No, only against ALL of those even suspected of voting for Trump. Too bad the Liberals were not able to run a candidate that passed the "smell" test.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 02:01 PM

"You have provided no evidence to indicate this"
There isn't a iil war so isn't it up to those who make the suggesion to prove there is one planned?
It can be shown that Trump has targeted sections of the U.S. population - he is a racist and he is a misogynist - non whites and women make up the majority of the US population.
Antisemitic John Bannon has been appointed as part of Trump's team, so he can be said to targeting Jews.
He has claimed that there are two million CRIMINAL ALIENS.
Police are investigating a wave of alleged hate crimes against Muslims, Hispanic Americans, black people, ethnic minorities and the LGBT community in the wake of the US election.
In all, that sounds very much to me like instigation of hate and distrust against a massive majority of the American population - sounds like the road to Civil War to me.
In contrast - until such time this scumbag and his team make protesting illegal, those on the streets are within their legal rights to protest against any or all of the above and anything else that they feel is deserving of attention - we'll see what he and his team come up with.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 02:31 PM

They have every right to protest- and when they cross the line into illegal acts, they should be arrested and charged.
THIS APPLIES TO ALL SIDES- If you apply it to those supposed Trump supporters, you have to apply it to the Liberals and anarchists as well. The rule of law does not make exceptions ( Umless you are a Hillary supporter.)

" like instigation of hate and distrust against a massive majority of the American population " LIKE THOSE who voted for Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 02:49 PM

Jim, you writted:

It can be shown that Trump has targeted sections of the U.S. population - he is a racist and he is a misogynist - non whites and women make up the majority of the US population.
Antisemitic John Bannon has been appointed as part of Trump's team, so he can be said to targeting Jews.

Pot? Kettle?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 02:50 PM

As Trump said ( so of course you all disagree):


In a later tweet he commented on the efforts. "Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy," he wrote. "Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."

But since you state Trump is wrong in all things, and should not be given the chance that Obama was ( wrong color skin, I guess), this must not be true.

What a bunch of political bigots!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 02:53 PM

Steve Shaw, you writted:
Not my rant, mate. Just a copy 'n' paste! I left you to do the ranting once you'd read it.

so you're saying you hopped, and I popped? ;-)

BTW if you read my post thoroughly you'll see that I noted your contribution was a "re-post". Just a re-post of somebody ELSE's nonsense.


Welcome to Trumpnation!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 03:01 PM

As for "revolution", this is from UPI:

"According to a Sisters March website, more than 5 million people around the world took to the street on all seven continents in 637 cities around the world.

The idea for the protests began as a Facebook post by a Hawaii grandmother the day after Hillary Clinton's loss in November's election. They called for a "revolution" against the new administration and the Republican-led Congress they fear will roll back reproductive, civil and human rights."

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 03:05 PM

"
They have every right to protest- and when they cross the line into illegal acts, they should be arrested and charged. "
And when they have, they will - I doubt if asny will be charged with sedition for provoking civil war.
Only a supporter of extremism describes protesting as civil war, so where exactly are these insurgents?
"" like instigation of hate and distrust against a massive majority of the American population " LIKE THOSE who voted for Trump?"
If Trump's policies are as I described them, those who support them are guilty of supporting attacks on the majority of the population of America - what's your point in repeating what I have just said?
"Pot? Kettle?"
I've said this to your running mates - I will make a large donation to any named charity if you can show that I have ever at any time attacked or criticised the Jewish people as a whole - I expect the same response from you as I have received from them - silence!
The only antisemites on this forum are those who associate the crimes of Israel with the Jewish people as a whole - you are looking in the wrong direction pal - try a mirror
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 04:45 PM

...as in James Herriott's Yorkshire Veterinary stories, once again, the resident "mass of dogs was hurtling round and round the lawn..." with the occasional cat making periodic claims to territory.

Before Siegfried and Tristan's resident dog pack wheels around the surgery into view again,
let me remark on the commuter style First Lady.
This is the sort of thing that regular ordinary constituent/citizens mutter about. What kind of First Lady is not a full-time First Lady, installed on Pennsylvania Avenue, with or without children? I don't participate in local coffee klatches hereabouts, but I can just picture the ladies, and the occasional husband, contrasting the First Missus of the moment with Ladies of the past administrations.
I seem to recall -- for me this is hard to recall -- that Jackie Kennedy had very recently suffered a difficult pregnancy and the loss of the baby, but was expected to buckle down and be part of the regime, and she did that, when her husband's term began.

Maintaining the family home outside of the White House while the President is in the White House...what First Lady has done that before? Seriously, am I missing something?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 04:58 PM

You called my post a rant, which it wasn't. The only rant came in your response. The post was a response to the claim that only the protesters were being violent. In view of US foreign policy since WWII l found that rather laughable. You may not like the source or the statistics. That's fine. So tell us what's wrong with them. Responding like you did in a somewhat petulant, defensive and childish manner as you did seems to suggest that you're in denial of the depredations of the US in other people's countries down the decades. Really?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 05:56 PM

JC:
I've said this to your running mates - I will make a large donation to any named charity if you can show that I have ever at any time attacked or criticised the Jewish people as a whole - I expect the same response from you as I have received from them - silence!
The only antisemites on this forum are those who associate the crimes of Israel with the Jewish people as a whole - you are looking in the wrong direction pal - try a mirror
Jim Carroll
Methinks thou dost protest too much. It's one of your favorite subjects, how bad they are and how much you don't don't like them.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 05:56 PM

Signs seen at the Women's March on Saturday from the Washington Post.

From the article:

-I Wish My Uterus Shot Bullets So the Government Wouldn't Regulate It

-This P—- Grabs Back

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 06:00 PM

Steve Shaw:

You basically re-tweeted a charge of multiple genocides accused against my country. Done up as a 'report'. The height of fake news. I already responded the kind of logic your citation used. It's up to you to justify that unlikely source.
Go hop on another pop.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 07:14 PM

Rubbish. First, it wasn't a tweet. I've never done a tweet in my life, in fact I don't know what one is. Second, there is no accusation, either in the article or in my head, of genocide. To be honest, if you want to have sane discussions with people here, you seriously need to ditch your defensiveness, stick your stars'n'stripes in the bin, grab a dictionary and try a little harder to be objective. Otherwise, just move on.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 08:06 PM

"Methinks thou dost protest too much"
Methinks you sling your accusations from distance and anonymity and refuse to substantiate them - cowardly and dishonest - two for the proce of one
My offer stands - refuse to take it you and you are a lying antisemite who, despite the clause which specifies that one of the definitions is associating the Jewish people with the actions of Israel, does so whenever Israel is criticises - an antisemite by definition
It's about time this forum got rid of hate-mailers like you - you lower the tone.
Still waiting for one of you people to show how protesting against a misogynistic, racist thug with Russian Mafia connections is seditious and tantamount to "a reign of terror" and attempting to start a civil war, but can't manage to hold my breath much longer.
In Trump's Brave New America maybe, but not yet!!
Still waiting to hear from Ake how being homosexual is threatening family values but encouraging men to "grab women by the pussy" is good, wholesome upholding support of teh family - but don't thinnk we'll ever sort out that particular enigma
What a viciously pathetic crowd you are - not to mention dangerous
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 08:14 PM

"You basically re-tweeted a charge of multiple genocides accused against my country"
UNTRIED WAR CRIMES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 08:56 PM

Jim Carroll: Wind him up and watch him go!


In another thread headlining your favorite topic you got contentious in very much the same words that I drew out of you by merely suggesting 'Pot? Kettle?' Then you posted some extremely nasty song lyrics which were meant to be racist, apparently to tick off some people you were baiting in that thread. Relax, it's not illegal (at least not in the United States, we have a whole amendment about it). But it is suggestive.

You remind me of Rush Limbaugh and his 'thing' about black people. It's like catnip to him, he couldn't keep away from broadcasting songs about Barack Obama being 'magic'.

It's a subject you come round to at the drop of a hat and with no self criticality whatever. Pretty demonstrative IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 09:05 PM

Oh, BTW Jim Carroll:

A big thank you for completing Steve Shaw's point. Earlier in this thread he posted without linking to the site what was basically an accusation that the United States had killed millions of people over the years in many wars. It was a large number of millions akin to the kind of death rate the Soviets in Russia and the Chinese Communists under Mao imposed on their own people via starvation and 're-education'. When I noticed that part of the deaths attributed to the United States were actually done by the Khmer Rouge on their own people (and I consider that genocide), Steve acted all innocent 'who me? I didn't mean that!' But in fact you Jim have provided a link to the same source as what Steve was quoting and in a different article they no-doubt-about-it accuse the U.S. of multiple genocides.

Game. Set. Match. Thanks for the help, Jim!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 09:23 PM

What a load of old bollocks. Of course I linked to it - I don't know how to do those blue jobbies here but I gave you more than enough to find the source in a trice, which you clearly did. You seem unable, quite likely out of your very defensive denialist patriotism, to focus on what we are saying here. What China or Russia did, terrible as it was, has absolutely nothing to do with this. Tell us what's wrong with either the sentiment, or the statistics, or both, of the points in the link, and you'll have to do a damn sight better than constantly rattling on about the Khmer Rouge when it comes to accounting for all the multifarious sins of your country over seventy years, won't you? That's the second time I've asked you to do that. You're out of your depth, aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 17 - 09:25 PM

Hey, Jim - "Game. Set. Match." Who does that remind you of? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 03:06 AM

El hijo de puta presidente de los estados unidos ya empezo a quitarles los derechos a las mujeres. El boludo, pelotudo concha de su madre!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 03:35 AM

Robo
You are no different from any other genocide apologists -
"He hit me harder sir" harks back to the schoolyard fights and makes not one iota of difference and is a pathetic excuse.
Genocide is genocide, whoever carries it out.
We watched nightly on our screens, reports of your B52s having dropped burning petrol on Vienamese peasants, or dropping carcinogenic chemicals on their fields in order to starve them into submission - you were even killing off your own pilots with the filth you sent them to drop.
This was a LIFE CHANGING PHOTOGRAPH of my younger days.
You want to admit your lot were just as bad as Stalin - fine - we have agreement, but don't hide behind others to lessen your war crimes.
And still you refuse to qualify your accusations of my "anti-semitism"
Fine by me - a reminder if the pieces of work we are dealing with and a confirmation of the type of people who put Trump where he is
Jim Carroll.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 03:38 AM

"Hey, Jim - "Game. Set. Match." Who does that remind you of? 😂"
Tim Henman and Andy Murray, unfortunately
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 05:15 AM

OK, Jim. I lose...

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 08:03 AM

Yeh you DO lose Steve and Jim. To be more accurate you lose Mudcat its membership. Millions of people voted for Trump - they can't all be morons and losers.

'What a viciously pathetic crowd you are - not to mention dangerous'

You're so damn sure you're right you say stuff like this.

And such rudeness alienates a hell of a lot people

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 08:10 AM

Mr. Red
We live in an age of safe zone censorship, Realist news and the myth of agenda free news living side by side. Spin used to be a pivot, but now spins at centrifuge speeds faster than the speed of sound.

Just a thought but it seems to me everything has an agenda associated with money. Exactly what is agenda free? Even trashy romance novels have an agenda. ( tap that) In jest even porn has an agenda.

I don't think an intelligent agenda free newspaper exists either BUT if it did it wouldn't be very good. If it existed I think it would NOT   taste very good. It would probably taste like a gluten free, sugar free, fat free, flavor free cookie.

Trump should own a newspaper and a TV network. We could call it distraction News network. DNN

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 08:58 AM

" Millions of people voted for Trump - they can't all be morons and losers."
Do I really need to repeat the example of the Nazi majority in Germany?
You judge a politician by what he is and intends to do, not by how many supporters he has.
How do you feel about your wife or daughters (if you have any) being regarded as "pussy fodder"?
If I lived in the U.S. I would feel extremely disturbed by it - over here, I'm just outraged - and I'm staggered when I hear he has supporters for his obscene attitude to women over here.
How about a national leader with links to the Russian Mafia and who has been accused of employing a killer in one of his companies - happy about that?
"And such rudeness alienates a hell of a lot people"
And support for this walking penis alienates the decent ones
Why don't you people ever address what Trump says and what he stands for - do you really support it?
If you do, I'm over the moon to have alienated you.
I've just been told that our loval priest has sung Trump's praises from the pulpit because he is anti "Pro-choice" for women
Apparently he has no problem with a world leader who regards women as available meat
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 09:11 AM

Chill out, Al. You've been getting more and more vitriolic and rude yourself recently. No-one here has said that everyone who voted Trump is a moron and loser. And I was gratuitously attacked by robomatic for putting up a link and he has yet to explain what was so horribly wrong with it that I deserved to be furiously shatupon. My point was that it's a bit rich criticising people for violence as they demonstrated against a very unjust election result that put an ignorant thug into the Oval Office. They were throwing stones and breaking windows. Give Trump a week or two and he'll be championing the gun lobby, threatening God knows who this time with nukes and shooting at Mexicans. Violence, often in other people's countries, is the sine qua non of US administrations. Is it OK if I say that it's very naughty to throw stones and break a few windows if I ignore all the rest?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 11:29 AM

Jim Carroll you still can't help 'telling' on yourself:
"Admitting that my lot is no different than Stalin?" - Only worlds!
Your link to a life changing photograph. I know that photograph without even clicking that link.
I very much described all along my feelings for your racial antipathy. I don't believe I used the word once in this thread but your awareness gives you away.

I am in fact more anti-Trump than you lot (Jim, Steve) because you both share Trump's tactic of re-framing reality to sow confusion and disinformation. I attempt to retain some sanity and proportionality while you both join the shouting contest, which simply affirms lung-power and who via retirement, joblessness, or adhesion to their key-pad can keep returning to the same thread before it dwindles out of sheer shapelessness.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 11:46 AM

"I very much described all along my feelings for your racial antipathy"
Only someone with an agenda would describe my feelings as "racial"
I do not blame the American people, I blame the establishment who waged a fourteen year long war on a third world country.
American students were shot down by the National Guard for protesting the war.
You are defending U.S. establishment atrocities as you defend those of the Israeli regime - we can't condemn them without being labeled racist - a cowardly defence for an atrocity.
I take your opposition to Trump with sceptisism, especially as you accuse us of "sowing disinformation - how have we done that?
Sanity my arse - it sounds like appeasement to me - pretty much the "ignore him and maybe he'll go away" approach adopted by Britain prior to WW2.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 11:46 AM

Your attempt appears to be failing.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 12:10 PM

Tag-teamed by Jim Carroll and Steve Shaw!

Poh-TAY-toh Poh-TAH-toh

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 12:17 PM

"Tag-teamed by Jim Carroll and Steve Shaw!"
Don't you mean "kicked up the arse by.....?
I think you'll find we cross-posted anyway - get somebody to read what Steve responded to for you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 12:20 PM

Yes, my response was directed at robomatic. I usually check for cross-posting straight away but I was busy cooking my pan of chilli, as per recipe in chilli thread.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 12:31 PM

Again the tag-team. Way cool!

The principle here is that telling folks how hypocritical they are is generally useless, along the principle that incompetent people don't know they are incompetent and think they're doing just fine. Just ask Trump what a good job HE'S doing and he'll tell you.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 01:11 PM

"Again the tag-team. Way cool!
Again we have no answer from you on either your claims or accusations
Evasion and diversion beats making an eejit of yourself, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 01:19 PM

Tag-team now, is it? Now what justification do you have for implying that Jim and I are in league in any way, shape or form? Jim, when's the last time you and I exchanged private messages? Buggered if I can remember. I think you might have warned me once about a troll in about 2009... What you see with me and Jim out here in public is what you get and all you get. Just because you're neurotic, mate, it doesn't mean we give a shit about being out to get you. Sheesh!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 01:22 PM

Tag-Team the Third. Beginning to sound like a Tom Clancy opus.

The incompentence thing is called The Dunning-Kruger effect. They had to give it a name. Like Trump. Like Idiocracy.

Here in America it's three and out. Ta Ta me buckos!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 01:37 PM

I don't like Trump. Creepy, to me at least.

But i don't think rudeness and abuse ever won an argument. Do either of you think calling someone 'viciously pathetic' is going to win anyone's heart and mind and make them think. I prefer Janis Ian's reasoned statement on facebook.
Janis Ian
January 21 at 2:27am ·
In the past 48 hours I have been told to "get over it" and "suck it up" by more than 100 people on my own page.
Here is my response. I will continue to post as many political comments and memes as I like. I will also continue to post as many free downloads, funny photos, and interesting quotes as I like. Why? Because this is my page.
This is also my country. My grandparents did not watch their families slaughtered by Cossacks and gutted by so-called Russian "patriots", then WALK across Russia and Ukraine, endure unimaginable hardships, and finally arrive at the Statue of Liberty - and then learn a new language, a new way of life, a new way of government - so I could give up the right to dissent.
That is why my family came here. That is why my grandfather bagged groceries and my grandmother ran a boarding house and my other grandmother took in mending. That is why my father went into the service and then to college on the G.I. bill, why my mother took night courses, why everyone and everything in my family was geared toward thinking and questioning and moving forward. So that I, a second-generation American, could, through merit and hard work, become "the American dream".
So here is my answer to those of you who would normalize what is happening around us right now.

Dear James (and Elizabeth, and Harold, and all the rest) -
Thank you for posting. I appreciate your suggesting that I now "let it go" and "suck it up" because "like it or not, he's our president." (Or in the case of all the Australians and New Zealanders chiming in for some reason, "he's your president now.")
All right! Which part would you like me to let go of? Shall I drop the "grab pussy" part? or maybe the "gay people need conversion therapy" part, since Pence said it, not Trump?
How about the Muslim registry, so wonderfully reminiscent of that bright yellow star my forebears had to sew on their coats? Or maybe I should heed Trump's statement "It's cold in New York - we need global warming".
Wait. I can suck it up and try to forget the part where he dodged the draft, then said of John McCain "I like people who weren't captured" Wouldn't that be patriotic?
And as a Jersey girl, I could just "suck up" and "let go" of the part where he said "thousands and thousands of people" in Jersey City were cheering as the World Trade Center buildings fell.
Wait, I know! Let's forget freedom of the press, his veiled threats to allow White House briefing access only to periodicals that agree with him. Suck on that, you liberal swine. Maybe I can also let go of the part where he threatens newspapers with changes in the libel laws, so he can sue them - and I can suck up to the National Enquirer, owned and run by Trump's dear friends.
Wait! My grandparents were always terrified they'd have to prove they had a right to be in America, so even though it was always illegal to require it, they carried their "papers" with them everywhere. Yeah, if there'd been a Jew Registry, they could already have been counted.
How about I about I let go of him saying "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that Barack Obama's birth certificate is a fraud"? Or when he said Mexico would pay for "the wall", except now we have to front the money?
Or my personal favorite, the part where he promises and promises to release his tax returns if he's elected....
C'mon, James. Which part should I let go of first?
No no no!!! I take it all back! I want to let go of this part, because somehow, I can't un-hear it. I can't un-see it. And I sure as hell can't "suck up to it":
"I did try and fuck her. She was married. I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look. I've gotta use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything… Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." Donald J. Trump
Nice. Go after married women. Cheat on your first two wives (at least). Kiss someone who doesn't invite it and consider yourself a "magnet". How presidential.
Yes, folks. I'll "suck it up" and "let it go". When hell freezes over.
You don't like it? Get off my page.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 01:48 PM

brava, bravissima

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 02:42 PM

"Tag-Team the Third. Beginning to sound like a Tom Clancy opus."
All we got at this end is the sound of running feet
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 02:42 PM

Yebbut they won't have got off her page. That's the trouble. She's only talking to me and you, k.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 02:43 PM

We keep doing this, Jim. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 05:21 PM

Big Al my grandparents faced the similar horrors as yours. Herded west and slaughtered by the Russians only to then be exterminated by the Nazi death squads. My dads parents came to America after more than half of the family were already murdered. They settled in Boston and their kids had to face neighborhood squabbles with the Irish. Being adopted I was a tow head with blue eyes and my wife is Irish. The violence done to our predecessors was not due to religion or looks, it was done by Tyrants and dictator's policy and new laws to take property.

Trump doesn't like criticism, no tyrant does. It is up to the Republicans to enforce the Constitution where Donald has already broken the Emollients clause.

You are right about the meme out there that says let it go, get over it and Ignore that press conference and Ignore that Women's March.
Ignore the super ego maniac behind the curtain. Ignore the defeat of any thing that helps the poor middle class and expands the treasure of billionaires.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Elmore
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 05:42 PM

Attn:Keberoxu Thanks for your concern. My wife is home and doing quite well.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 06:11 PM

And thank you, Elmore, for a touch of humanity in between the
"fighting like cats and dogs" discussion
which has pattered on little feet over to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Janie
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 07:07 PM

Mrzzy, I participated in the Raleigh, NC march.

I'm glad I did. While it was a diverse crowd, it was a predominantly white crowd. Most of the diversity was with respect to age.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 07:16 PM

The Trump team looks like he is outfitting a pirate ship.
Can't wait for the new missile parades in DC
Russians feel very at home here.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 17 - 07:32 PM

ORWELIAN OXY SOMA AND BOOZE USERS - are Trump states

With a few exceptions like Wisconsin Minnesota and Texas the most users of Oxy are i States that went for Trump.

If you watched the night of 100 stars, scratch that, the night of 7 stars at the Inauguration party you saw Toby Keith with his greatest hits like;
Get My Drink On, Get Drunk and Be Somebody, Nights I Cant Remember, Red Solo Cup, Walk It Off, Rum is the Reason, Cold Beer Country, I like Girls That Drink Beer and many more.
I know Trump doesn't drink but the songs are for his base.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 09:22 AM

As for terror,

Many complain about Trump's comments on a Gold Star family. What do you say about physical attacks on them by anti-Trump protestors?





Amy Looney, who lost her husband Navy SEAL Lt. Brendan Looney in 2010, and Ryan Manion, whose brother Marine First Lt. Travis Manion died in 2007, said they were attacked as they tried to enter the American Legion's tribute to Medal of Honor recipients at the Veterans Inaugural Ball.

"Unfortunately, as we got there we found ourselves separated from the rest of the group walking to the galas that night and were caught in between the entrance to the event and about 75 protesters that got very angry with us and really converged on us," Manion said on "Fox & Friends."

That's when events quickly escalated.

"We were pushed by a man in a mask hiding his face," Manion wrote in The Philadelphia Inquirer. "Our clothes were drawn on with permanent marker by other 'protesters.' And we were called the most vile names I have ever heard as we entered and exited the venue."

Manion said that she and Looney – who operate the Travis Manion Foundation – did not attend the ball for political reasons and that the pair support President Donald Trump just as they "supported the previous administration and just like we will support every future administration that the American people elect."

Looney and Manion were initially late to the ball because they couldn't get through "an angry mob in the street that was burning trash cans and smashing windows," Manion wrote on Facebook. When they eventually got near the entrance a group of around 75 people tried separating them from the ball. It was as the two women walked through the crowd that people began pushing them and yelling insults.

"We understand more than most how fortunate we are to live in a country where we can demonstrate and share our different beliefs," Manion wrote. "But my question for those who chose to take this route Friday is this: Are you truly accomplishing anything by inciting hate?"

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:02 AM

More distortion - what about the threat to large sections of the American population by Trump's declared policies?
He has announced that today will be "security day", that a Berlin-type wall will be built between the U>S> and Mexico and that "alien" criminals will be deported.
He has also stated that numbers of visitors from Muslim countries will be severely restricted.
He is proceeding on a racist basis, as he stated he would.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:05 AM

I suppose its beyond hope that you will ever respond to the threat his savagely misogynistic attitude poses to American women, especially as you have described protesting against such a threat as 'Incitement to Civil War'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:35 AM

You mean the attitude as demonstrated by Bill Clinton, that the LIBERALS in this country thought was just fine? It's OK to rape poor people, according to the Clintons- Just look at how HRC defended her husband's actions- NOT WORDS, but actions.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:36 AM

100- and the terror is by Liberals.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:42 AM

No - I mean the open incitement to assault women
Is this the behavior expected of a world leader?
Describing protesting such threats as incitement to civil war indicates you are happy with women being used and regarded in such a manner - as extreme terrorism as it gets
Why aren't you people prepared to even discuss the fact that this is was America has for a president and would rather suppress opposition to scum like this?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 11:29 AM

We tried surpressing scum like Bill Clinton, but the Liberals let him off as "Liberal Boys will be boys." HRC made sure that the women were treated like dirt.


So, you think we should have DIFFERENT RULES for each political wing???


That appears to be the point you are making.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 11:40 AM

No, the same rules for all. The rules involve the word "consensual".

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 11:51 AM

So - there we have it
You make it clear that you have no regard for A
American women as you appear to share Trump's view - that's what your silence conveys
The fat that Trum has appointed an antisemite into his team doesn't seem to bother you - not worthy of comment
Puts the Jewish people in their place ans far as you are concerned
His current moves against Muslim visitors make him an extreme Islamophobe - we already know where you stand on that one'
His targeting "alien" criminals makes him a racist.
His present dismantle of any form movement against climate change makes him a planetary vandal
I seem to remember you were one of those who ranted about the Berlin Wall yet are happy to see one erected in the U.S. - why wouldn't you be considering that fat that the Isreali regime havce constructed similar.
Clinton was guilty of having consentual sex - he did not promote sexual assault which could easily lead to rape, which seems to be what you are defending
Anybody who describes demonstrating against such things as 'providing Civil War' is a fascist by definition as far as I am concerned,
You've always left me with that impression; thanks for the confirmation.
Jim Carroll





I

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 12:23 PM

Clinton was guilty of having consentual sex

As long as rape is consentual ( which you as a Liberal must think it is, since it was OK when Bill did it)

You have confirmed your anti-Semitic credentials too many time to even list.


So it is wrong to deport a criminal who is not a legal citizen?


Next time I go to Mexico, let me see how far I go without a visa and passport - Hell, I can't even go to Canada anymore without them!


But you support having them optional for US visitors?????????


ONE LAW FOR ALL.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 03:14 PM

"As long as rape is consentual"
Clinton was never convicted or even charged with rape
It seems that we must add "guilty without conviction" to the CBs of Trump supporters
Had he been he would never have been considered for presidency
Trump was elected in full knowledge of his advocation sexually assaulting women
I repeat, anybody who describes demonstrating against such a perve as a form of self-defence is tantamount to "Civil War", is a fascist, plain and simple.
You antisemitically avoid the fact that Trump has appointed an antsemite into a responsible position - puts all your accusation of "Jew Hater" into context.
Member of France's leading anti-semitic dynasty, Marine LePen, has described Trump's victory as "opening the door to victory for her party".
It's probably pure coincidence that she was recently photographed visiting Trump Tower
Political loyalties are alwys a bit of an embarrassment whern you have to choose, aren't they?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 07:33 PM

D israction
O f
N ews
A ll
L ivelong
D ay

That's
Really
Undermining
Meaningful
Press

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 08:27 PM

These people make me sick
For some years now I and others who share my views, have put up with cowardly abuse from B.B., who has greeted any criticism we have made of Israel with streams of vile abuse, including accusations of "Jew haters"
I spent my twenties working and socialising with Jewish people in Manchester - some of them Holocaust survivors and descendent's of the earlier European pogroms; great people who, despite their ordeal, remained dedicated to humanity and respect for freedom and human life.
I broke up with the girl I was going to marry because I got into an argument with her mother, who was a child in the Camps, when she described the regime that was running Israel then (in the sixties) as "a bunch of fascists" - in my naivety, I was appalled.
My fiancé's mother, when I asked her about her experiences, said, "never again, not to anybody".
That period of my life was by far the most formative as far as my politics were concerned.
Now what do we have?
America elects an extremist right wing president whose attitude to "aliens" and Muslims is identical to those who sent six million Jews to their deaths.
Trump appoints an extreme antisemite onto his staff - not worthy of comment from our "champion of the Jewish People".
Trump's victory gives one of the leading antisemites in France hope of winning the election there and possibly assisting European antisimites back into power again there.
Again, silence from Bruce - not worth even an acknowledgement.
People like Bruce have forgotten that it was extremists like Trump who filled the graves of Auschwitz and Birkenau and have thrown their lot in with them - to them, politics has become more important than humanity.
I trust we'll hear no more of your "JEW HATER " Bruce!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 09:18 PM

I trust we'll hear no more of your "JEW HATER " Bruce!!

This from someone who refuses to accept what the majority of the civilized world including Ireland and the UK, the UK police force and the political party he supports define as anti-Semitism and instead feels entitled to define it for himself so as to absolve himself from what most everyone recognizes as being anti-Semitic. You couldn't make this up folks.....smh.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 09:35 PM

Perhaps you'd like to tell us what bits of the world you regard as "uncivilised" before we go any further. A sensible response is not expected but I'm always open to surprises. Shall I help? Perhaps an uncivilised world is one inhabited by people who dishonestly pretend to be two different people in order to cheat an internet forum and to be able to call people vile names, "Jew hater" for example. You must have come across people like that in your world, bobad. Actually, it's quite amazing that people like that have the shame to turn up at all. Rather like bad pennies, if you know what I mean. Which you do, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 10:27 PM

"people who dishonestly pretend to be two different people in order to cheat an internet forum and to be able to call people vile names" - sometimes the paranoia is just downright entertaining. Not sure what "two different people" you're talking about, but it's not bobad, and it's not beardedbruce. Maybe you've been doing it and think everybody else must be as well? Oh well.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 02:19 AM

What on earth is "consensual rape"? Coercion into having intercourse during rape is not consent. Rape is by definition when consent has not been given or when the people involved are unable to give legal consent (eg under age).

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 02:35 AM

I realise the term is used informally in sone circumstances, by the way. I was referring to its legal meaning. And in Clinton's case your claim seems to be his behaviour was illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 03:09 AM

WOW Steve Shaw - Jeri - 25 Jan 17 - 10:27 PM - That one certainly had to have struck home and killed off at least one of your boring baseless accusations and pet hobby-horses.

Well done Jeri!!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 04:04 AM

Jim. Who exactly shares your views. On at least three occasions recently you have called for the assassination of the President.
I am amazed the moderators allow you to continue to post. I most certainly do not share your views. They would seem to be an incitement to terrorism. What sort of person does that make you?

Date: 21 Jan 17 - 07:06 AM

Where are the Stauffenbergs of this world when you neeed them
Jim Carroll

21 Jan 17 - 07:36 PM
I have no brief for violence normally, but I seriously hope somebody has the balls to stop him one way or the other.
Jim Carroll

Date: 22 Jan 17 - 05:24 AM
There is little doubt - to me at least that, if he lives up to his promise, it would be a safer place without Trump
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 04:09 AM

"You couldn't make this up folks.....smh."
Been here before Bobad - until you can explain Israel's anti-semitic use of the accusation of antisemitism to ward of any criticism of their genocidal behaviour towards the Palestinians, no 'definition' which extends beyond attacks on the Jewish People is valid
I have never attacked the Jewish People antisemitically in my life and you pair have never shown that I have.
The final example given in the definition of antisemitism that you refer states quite clearly that it is antisemitic to hold Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel yet, whenever Israeli actions are condemned, you and yours describe them as attacks on the Jewish People - you do exactly what the definition describes as "antisemitic" - so does Israel
Israel, in the words of its Justice Minister, has described any criticism of Israeli policy as antisemitism and it condemns Jews who criticise their policy as "self-hating Jews".
I have no intention of debating Israel here with you - the only reason I raised the question of Antisemitism here was because I believe Trump's appointment of an extreme antisemite and his possible consorting with antisemites like LePen and his victory gaining the support of extremist right wing groups in Europe and giving them the possibility of winning forthcoming elections, puts the Jewish People at risk as much as it does the rest of us.
Trump's Presidency indicates a rise of right-wing extremism in the Western World - the same extremism that set the jackboots marching in Germany and plunged the world into war.
He is an extremist right wing thug and he is drawing on extremists for his support, including the Klan - and people such as Bruce, and I presume you.
Right wing extremism exterminated many million people in the twentieth century, including six million Jews - the targeting of entire cultures, races and religions by the extremist right, opens the possibility that it is happening all over again.
What Bill Clinton and Donald Trump did or didn't do with their dicks measures small (inference intended) next to that fact - how Donald Trump regards women, "aliens", Mexicans, Muslims....... most certainly doesn't.
Trump's election in America was based on racism and Xenophiobia, an was Brexit in Britain
Take your filthy accusations and either prove them or stick them.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 04:29 AM

"On at least three occasions recently you have called for the assassination of the President."
On one occasion only I made a joke about it - I explained that was what it was.
The other two had nothing to do with killing Trump - I do believe the world would be a safer place without the likes of Trum - as I support of the man, I don't expect you to agree.
I am basically a pacifist and believe assassinating leaders such as Trump is both wrong and pointless - politicians such as he need to be stopped politically and I believe the decent people of America and the rest of the world are perfectly capable of doing that democratically.
Millions of people have already taken to the streets exercising their democratic rights - a tiny handful have resorted to violence, which is, I believe, both stupid and self-defeating - it is lowering themselves to the level of the potentially violent individual they are demonstrating against.
Feel free to make political capital out of my joke if you have nothing else to offer.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 05:39 AM

Well, Billi 'n' Jeri, do you remember the dark times before the no-Guests rule came in? Well there was an anonymous Guest in those times, one of many, of course (shall we call them "thread parasites," Jeri?). But this one frequently told us that his anonymity served to encourage the rest of us to address the argument, not attack the poster. At the same time, from behind his protective wall, he called people here Jew-haters, among other things, which, as we all know, is a fine way of not attacking the poster! Well here's the rub, cackling-Teribus-who-is-a-stranger-to-the-truth and Jeri-the-sour-mod-who-wades-in-without-bothering-to-check-facts: at that time there was also bobad. But here's the thing: bobad was also that Guest! Yes he was! But he pretended he wasn't! He was a Guest only when he wanted to go into insulting bigot mode! Joe Offer investigated and confirmed it, posts from both coming from the same Internet address.   So no unsubstantiated allegations, etc., from me, and no paranoia either, just a reminder of the man's hypocrisy in case anyone feels like taking him seriously. And one more thing, Jeri. Of all the people who post here there has been no-one, NO-ONE, more consistent and open than I've been about posting under their real name only and with a single identity only. Your disgraceful slur has demonstrated once again that you are not the right kind of person to be a moderator. Go and hang your head in shame and show us that you can take it as well as dole it out.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 05:41 AM

Headlines in this morning's Times
May (Theresa, not Imelda) has said that "together, Britain and America can lead the world" so she has unilaterally decided to push Britain to the extreme right
I'm sure she democratically sought agreement from her cabinet first (NOT)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 06:16 AM

Il Douche?

according to those that study these things, the only train yer man made run on time was the one taking him to the seat of government ahead of his rivals. One train!

Such is history made of myths. Today it gets made before the fact, we calls them post truths - post as in Farcebook, Twatter and all the other channels open to manipulation. We used to call it propaganda - what happened to our language? Let us use the proper words.

Give the people a conduit, and what do we get? Cute cats, and a cacophony of cancerous kak! There is yer terror!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 09:13 AM

Steve with all due respect you do have the practice and ability to come up with some of the most vicious putdowns, snubs and name calling I have seen. Sometimes I hope you didn't hone those skills in the classroom. I am glad Donald Trump does not go as far as you when it comes to defaming scandalous accusations. The point is, the formulaic sting at the end of your posts is practically automatic, albeit true on occasion, they add no clarity. As a Monty Python character who always insults at the end of all positive comment, its hilarious. But folks probably don't hear it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 09:41 AM

Stevie, I never would have thought no identity was a separate identity. In any case, it's over. You consistently get into arguments with people because of who they are, not because of what they say, which is a damned good reason for someone to want to be nobody in particular. A bit stalker-ish.

For the most part, I ignore the BS threads, except the personal bile tends to spread into interesting, non-political threads. Still, I think there are few people who even try to discuss things in BS these days, and they're mostly into hate, ridicule, demonization, and all that other good shit.

Out

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 11:46 AM

Fact is, Jeri, you got this one badly wrong when you waded in with your size twelves. And if you really think that I come here to attack people because of who they are then you don't read my posts properly. I don't expect people to agree with me all, some or any of the time but my more serious posts are generally characterised by closely-argued points and are longer than most other people's posts. And the irony is that you yourself have a little lineup of people who you automatically attack whenever you're around to post, usually with a scathing remark and no attempt at debate. You called perfectly decent people thread parasites yesterday, and that was just yesterday. And now you are defending bobad for hiding behind a wall to call people like me and Jim Jew haters. Go on, read your own post again and try not to get indigestion. And kindly don't cover up your failings by insinuating that I'm a stalker. That is just vile. I only open threads that are on topics I may be interested in, ever. You have my full posting record on that score but I suppose it's just easier to make scurrilous accusations.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 11:59 AM

A bit stalker-ish.

I would say more than "a bit" but there you have one good reason for a poster to post anonymously if that option is available.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 11:59 AM

It isn't supposed to be a sting, Donuel. I had good teachers who showed us how to round off paragraphs either to link nicely to the next one or to close with a catch instead of a fizzle. I suppose I make my paragraphs a bit too long. But I see one or two others here who post in tabloidese, with short, snappy sentences instead of paragraphs and, to boot, double-spacing between. That's a debating ploy I don't fall for as it represents style hiding lack of substance, and, with some people who I won't name for now, it's an affectation. As for the other alleged attributes of my posts you refer to, well I suppose you don't wade through enough threads to see who the real name-callers are. I like to be direct as I find it saves time. If you catch me out stating untruths, do let me know. Thank you for the attention. And was that a sting?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 12:06 PM

Well, bobad, you've called both me and Jim Jew haters a number of times yet neither of us has ever seen the need to hide behind anonymity. Oh yes, you can sniff us out quickly enough in any thread where you think you can get that one in, can't you?   But you're no stalker. And neither am I. Me, I just react. More damage done, see, Jeri? Well done!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 12:32 PM

Jeri and I have had a few rows, but she is one of the better moderators.....no favourites and she is spot on this time Steve, you are personally in attack mode or dismiss mode at all times and have rarely any intention of addressing the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 12:36 PM

She must be so happy to have YOU onside! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:07 PM

Well, bobad, you've called both me and Jim Jew haters a number of times....

Aww, poor little bully boys. How about Islamophobe, homophobe, bigot, racist, xenophobe, Nazi, fascist, storm trooper etc. Recognize those, snowflake?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:10 PM

I think Jeri and I disagree about a lot of things, but she does her job pretty well. A moderator should not let their political views influence the way he/she moderates the forum. Jeri moderates in that fashion, if she thinks you ...or I are being disingenuous she will let us know in short measure, her own political views are kept out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:42 PM

Ake; go explore your feminine side
Steve sometimes a game is so embedded we don't know we are playing.

As a hypnotist I had occasion to be a diplomat between the ego and the subconscious. Keeping the ego apart from the subconscious could serve the purpose of overlooking conflict. Getting them together could also serve a purpose.

Waa Waa Waa , oops there goes my irrelevancy alarm.

I have a tendency to wander, but you stay on point. After a while letting it go is good. Not everyone has the technical and intellectual prowess to delve into certain subjects. Let it go.

We probably all know more than we need to know but I like learning more while I can. Like my Mom the cynic said, live and learn, die and forget it all.

I have the view that any thing written here is as temporary as a footprint in the wet sand except for the hurt if I step on something alive and sharp and we both get hurt.

Trump drives a tank in that sand and won't get hurt unless he goes bare foot.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 01:49 PM

Trump goes barefoot in the weee hours of the morn.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 08:47 PM

"Aww, poor little bully boys. How about Islamophobe, homophobe, bigot, racist, xenophobe, Nazi, fascist, storm trooper etc. Recognize those, snowflake?"

Well, petal, no I don't on the whole. Are you really saying I've called you all those things? If you are, then why not give me some quotes of mine, maybe one for each word, to demonstrate. Context, as ever, is everything. Nouns, not adjectives, please. Shall I not bother holding my breath, you delicate, got-at little fellow? Now don't go tripping yourself up by giving me examples of what I allegedly called you when you were pretending to be Guest-not-bobad! What a giveaway that would be! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 03:33 AM

Posted this to the wrong thread in my haste last night - here goes again.
"You consistently get into arguments with people because of who they are, not because of what they say"
Bit unfair, I thought - a constant jibe here is "leftie", or "your team" - or lumping together people like "the usual gang" - rather than responding to points made.
We are all prone to personally insulting - it often happens in subjects that we take seriously, but makybe it's time we all put a btake on it.
Mind you, that's a bit difficult when one of the main culprits obsequiously praised the moderator for doing her job while leaving the impression that it's everybody else who is the problem and nuffin' to do with him.
Bizarrely, the same individual uses "liberalism" as an insult - no idea where to go from there!!
The worst behaved individual on this forum is incapable of posting without personally insulting and talking down to people - equally bizarrely, our "illiberal" and obsequious friend regards his behaviour as beyond reproach - amazing what you can get away with if you say the right things to the right people (right being the operative word)
Insulting and cowardly Trolls like Bobad seem to be beyond all reason and will be what they are while they are allowed to get away with it.
We all need to get a grip if this section is to survive - and that can only happen if we "see ourselves as others see us" - not a bad time of year to quote that!
See what I mean about our serial abuser (Mr T's posting landed before I posted my message, conveniently underlining my point)
As I said - we all need to get a grip - and some of us need to come to terms with our ignorant arrogance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:37 AM

Well Mr Shaw you obviously cannot tolerate any form of criticism. You would seem the first to squeal like a stuck pig when people reciprocate to your taunting. I wonder if you applied your manner of posting to your teaching career. If you did you were a disgrace to the profession. You deliberately enter some threads to insult and provoke argument and make no attempt to hide it.
   I can take your insulting comments telling me to have another drink, or your dismissive "nighty night" and even your constant attempts to query my odd postings and correct my spelling and punctuation, or most recently to argue semantics. Some people used to collect green shield stamps, you appear to be trying to record the maximum number of postings on mudcat, with the second objective of irritating the maximum number of posters. I wonder how many you have driven away from mudcat with your constant posturing.You really are quite sad.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror: take a small action
From: peregrina
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:43 AM

Instead of arguing here, please,
be the resistance.
Instead of talking insults, which is fun, but doesn't bring about change, please, speak up,
BE HEARD!

Phone your Senators and Congressional rep and tell them which Trump policies and nominees you'd like them to oppose. Just 3 Phone calls, just 4 minutes. This works--they have to count calls

If you are not in the US, or are not a US citizen, you can phone a Trump hotel and say that as long as the White House phone line is off and Trump has not divested, his businesses are an extension of the Oval Office. From the Teen Vogue article about this:

'So, to solve the problem, White House Inc. — created by Revolution Messaging, the same company that worked on Bernie Sanders' digital presidential campaign — connects you to Trump in a different way: by calling his businesses, the same ones the president isn't divesting from, despite the fact that it may be illegal and unconstitutional for him to hold on to them."

--the website they created is here: https://whitehouseinc.org

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:54 AM

Why specify any individual when many people area ti it - shows a little partisanship
Whatever indiscretions Steve mey have committed there are far, far worse behaved than he
Forming factions is only going to increase the problem in including on this thread
Address the problem, not the individual
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 05:12 AM

By the way Iaians
My first impression of you here was your referring to me as gullible and naíve - a little arrogant for a newbie - far from "good manners", as I understand them
Glass houses, stone-throwing and all that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 05:38 AM

Take no notice, Jim. He's a lightweight. A rude one at that.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 06:16 AM

The GAG order of the EPA scientists and removal of web pages has been lifted. The outrage and demonstrations have had an effect.
This was an invasion that went to far to soon.

The State Dept hasn't fared as well. Career statesmen have been fired.
They got rid of most of the people who had nurtured back channels for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 06:49 AM

And what about the disgusting gag order that cuts US funding to international NGOs if they offer advice to women about abortion or provide abortion services? One organisation that is going to refuse to be compromised in this way will lose $100 million in funding even though none of the US money it receives is spent on abortion. Trump is going to be responsible for an upsurge in dangerous, illegal abortions in developing countries. Still, it's only women so why would he care? And anyway, America first, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 08:38 AM

It seems that people all over the Western world have at long last realised that we cannot afford "liberalism".

Even had it been a good idea, which it certainly was not, the social cost would have been too great
As I have said many times, if you want to live in a "free" capitalist society you need the utmost efficiency in running the economy, you all apparently want such "freedom", which is perhaps understandable as you are all members of a very privileged sector of society......but you baulk at the efficiency portion, which in effect means waving farewell to all the fondly held myths attached the "liberal" ideology.

Time for hard choices children, is it to be a new system, or a long lie in the bed you have been pissing in for the last couple of decades?.......The backlash is now well underway, do not say that you were not warned.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 09:40 AM

Perhaps you could post that again, this time explaining what the hell you're on about.

On second thoughts, don't bother.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 10:28 AM

I'm sure even you can work it out Steve.....so I won't(bother)

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 10:30 AM

If you are really into riddles, may I respectfully guide you to Don's posts?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 10:47 AM

1st let me translate Ake; (if he had the facility)
**************************************************


Media shut up, progressives shut up, all you wind mill tilters shut up.
May all the dead statues of liberty and organizations built to tear down great empires, kingdoms and soulless corporations - SHUT UP.


Now is the time for white nationalists to shout out so all will hear - Everyone is to shut up, obey, be loyal and listen once and for all to the HEROES OF HATRED AND THE RIGHT OF THE MIGHTY OF THE RIGHT.
Finally every little common man will have a hand destroying the bad and building on the ashes of the past that was only designed to tear us down. Wasting money on illegal aliens, Jews, Blacks, Rag Heads will be dealt with and will be wiped from the face of the Earth.
Women will be put in their place. The place for democrats will be a criminalized zone gerrymandered from the filth infested cities of squalor. Democrats have somehow worked side by side for ISIS and through Sharia law has chained and defiled America.

The shining white city on the hill will be ours again!

We will strangle the federal work force with our bare hands and drown the survivors in a bathtub until never again grow large enough to bully the states, be they confederate or private or wholly independent from government. Instead the one great voice of our great leader will be heard, so shut up and listen.


Do you understand Ake now Steve?



These are the dark days I warned against and the seeds of civil war are rapidly being planted for next year's crop of divisive weed.
A weed that divides life giving food until it is choked out.
Distraction fertilizer and provokicide is being used to confuse the immune system.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 10:56 AM

I must remind everyone that this phase is still part of the blowback from what wall street did to us and the world.
They stole 25 years worth of our lunch money and people are still hungry.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 11:06 AM

and then there is the Alternative view.
Sorry if it is a little more restrained in tone and slightly less personal than Don's original.....A

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 11:25 AM

I forgot the evil of education. Achenation, you are the White Taliban.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 11:40 AM

Ake, I will ask rather than make an assumption; do you, personally, agree, at least for the most part, with the "alternative view" expressed in the article you linked?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 11:49 AM

I am passionate but not personal. Vehement but not violent, Ake is not my fool. He is a foil.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 12:14 PM

More accurately, an unsolicited foil.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 12:32 PM

I don't know Donuel personally. I don't understand some of what he types but I understand a lot of it, enough to surmise that he is a very decent human being. Not stupid either.

I don't know akenaton personally either. He clearly doesn't understand a good deal of what he types. It could be that he is capriciously misrepresenting himself here. But if he isn't, I've read enough from him to surmise that he has an extremely ugly streak in his personality which manifests itself in unthinking expressions of intolerance for several sections of humanity. He also has a super-inflated notion of the value of his opinions which is one hundred percent unjustified.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 01:47 PM

Yes Steve we are divided by a common language but united by educational enlightenment.

You will hate this Steve but there is a Bible verse at the heart of this issue. I paraphrase; Beware who you encounter as your sworn enemy for you will each become like the other.
I think this is self explanatory. As for its relevance explanation would help. but its lunchtime.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 02:01 PM

I probably use bible verses in my posts more than anyone else, Donuel. A wise word is a wise word even if it it was only a pretend person who said it. As for enemies, I prefer to retain just a scrap of my sanity by not harbouring them online (making them is a whole nother thang but I can't let that be my problem). How can I make someone my enemy if I don't know them? Recognising defects in people does not equate to making enemies of them. I could be my own worst enemy and give you a long list of my defects. Three times as long were I to ask Mrs Steve to give it. Others here would helpfully chime in. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 02:16 PM

In that case I would like to do something I haven't done in a long time.
I would like to compose and assemble an important post. Something you might want to trace in stone instead of wet sand. Something that will impel you to think. Something anathema to a story teller which is telling you things you already know and feel. Something like a truth you don't want to know but are starving for.

This will take half an hour but is worth the wait. I used to gleen Bill D posts that forced philosophical thought. I will demand it.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 03:32 PM

We were both born in the bloodiest century in Human history. Whether you take the road less traveled or the common path they both cut through the same forest. Left you go through scientific and technologic advancement that would virtually make us like Gods or the other path that promises the protection and enlightenment by God. Before choosing you might ask what is the true path. What is truth, what is my life? Does a life have a how? Does a life have a why? Against a backdrop of industrial revolution we faced alienation, dislocation, population on a mass scale and murder on a mass scale.
We eventually discover the constraints of truth whether metaphor or paradigm. In many cases an actual truth never existed. Look down from a great height and see the nexus of the great Human saga where we dared to trade the organizing bliss of good and evil, right and wrong determined by a creator for other opiates; Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, Psychology, Technology, any learnable system to replace myths that began to evaporate. The 20th Century my home but also into which each of you was born. For many a time for hope, liberation, possibility, for others abandonment and despair. A most human century in which we begin really that nature was right. We are beautifully, finally, achingly
,,,alone.

In this void, this cobbled philosophy at its worse becomes self reflecting, linguistic, semantic, relativism having rendered any discussion of right and wrong, left and right, good and evil to be the quaint concerns of another age. At its most provocative it asks other questions, those of finding our authentic selves and meaning seems to have died. Nothing less in short as why do we live at all. What makes us who we are and what in us is broken. They ask what now. And we are still asking it. What will fortify us is another century. Do we abandon the search for specific truths? Is truth and facts so elusive it is just silly to some?
The ethical, moral good principles that by definition can never be proved when so much now can be proved. Or is all this finally and forever pointless. Are we done? I s all that is real a reality show?
We can destroy cities all over the globe, alter the gas mixture of the atmosphere, dispassionately vaporize each other, create life were tere was none. All the while we are intoxicated with the possibilities ,te queston remains , how do we seek purpose and where do we hope to find it if we are so busy deciding there need not be any purpose, just as afraid.. We wander eyes closed to the powerful glare of the sun.
While, science, medicine, physics face the charge of Godlessness with less to guide us now than ever.
Seemingly omnipotent, but more human than ever and more afraid with more to be afraid about.

These quandaries do not end in this unread post on an obscure digital website. They begin in a human imagination. Perhaps yours. Those who question carry the light. The light is what we have taught each other through out our lives and even here in this tide pool of ideas.
Its been a wonderful 15 years. Lets not be strangers to everything we learned from one another.
May your best years be to come and so for us all.
Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: peregrina
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:04 PM

Write to Steve Bannon
at 1600 Massachusetts Avenue
Washington DC

and tell him about the importance of free speech. There is a movement afoot
to get people from all over to write to him about the 1st Amendment.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:09 PM

Donuel, thank you.
My own opinion differs in this: what I observe in the human history of civilization, the little with which I am acquainted, is acceleration. The bloodshed of conquering empires is a constant of human civilization, I fear; and what has changed over time, is that society goes through these cycles of expansion, acquisition, consolidation, and the eventual undoing, at a faster pace. Is the British empire really so different, in its human impact, from the cycle of civilization in today's India, which reached its imperial peak in a much earlier epoch? I wonder if India, by whatever name it was called thousands of years ago, was not as bloodthirsty, ruthless, and acquisitive as a conquering empire, as the later empires to the West; it's just that India did all that rather more slowly, and by the time the English fought their way to the imperial summit, it was all happening a lot faster.
I don't mean to minimize or belittle the horrors of the 1900's with wars both hot and cold, especially not the loss of life, or the displacement of the survivors. It's just that when I look at the 1900's, I see layers and layers of conflicting social cycles intersecting each other. Things that in earlier history would have taken centuries to play out, burned themselves out in mere decades.

Funny, but in my own mis-education or ignorance, I recall that "choose your enemy carefully for you will grow to be like him" to be a paraphrase of Latin, from Rome's pre-Christian empire.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 04:34 PM

I was fortunate to know the personal temptation of greed. My reaction some would say was extreme. But it was what Trump should do. Divest.
Obama was right, Donald is not ideological. Still Bannon can gin Trump up.

Donald is a bad joke in delivery and in deed.
Bad jokes are popular in America.

Yes Keb it was the bloodiest, perhaps you are right

About Bannon.
Do it but understand he is all about assembling the Trump enemies list in Which Donald loves to wallow. But when we are all Sparticus it is they who are the enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 05:15 PM

As a dyslexic I am self educated keb.
What might be unique is that I pursued a knowledge spectrum wider than visible light. The invisible esoteric has its own wavelength to me.

Ancient India is as fascinating, mysterious, more elaborate but is as profound as Egypt. Beyond the opaque clouds of time they seem to be a good candidate for the most advanced first civilization. To me the Sumerians were the fascists and India were the hippies with technology.
Look at their buildings. :>)

end of thread drift

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 07:17 PM

Thank God the robots are coming

-Gort

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 07:50 PM

Let's hope they're coming to get you.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 08:32 PM

The only aliens I suspect have made their way to the US are viri hitchhiking on comets.

From my perspective robo dislikes esoteric themes and ideas but he is right about everything else. I bet he would agree that trade with Mexico is in jeopardy not because American jobs went to Mexico but that robot technology has replaced those jobs forever. Furthermore he would agree the Wall is a boondoggle.

Mexico is not the problem automation is. It has very little to do with trade. trump just that wrong idea in his head that jobs are being stolen and thinks it will sell to Joe Hickey in Indiana.

I have a trade deficit with Safeway grocery store because I give them money and they give me groceries. We are both better off for it. Its not inherently a bad thing.

The problems are NOT solved by starting a trade war with Mexico.
Education, Infrastructure and training will do much more to expand an employment force. Yep even immigration.

Robomatic, are we on the same page here?
Your screen name is apropos now more than ever.

- mini Gort -

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 05:30 AM

Sorry Don, I've been busy. I think you misunderstand the meaning of the Spectator link.   It was not as you suppose a rant against education, which is extremely important in any society, but pointed out that today's "liberals" are promoting an outdated , unaffordable and mythical ideology, fed to them by a generation of "teachers" brought up in the sixties where the whole strata of social and political life was being attacked...just because it was there.
Some of the demolition was good and some very bad, but one thing is certain these "teachers" have become dangerous "dinosaurs", lacking common sense or any idea about the workings of the real world.
The demonization of President Trump and his unfortunate truths are an excellent example.

If you want real change in your society dump "liberalism", become a socialist and work with conservatives to bring it about. Change can never be achieved without unity.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 07:04 AM

"...become a socialist and work with conservatives to bring it about."

WTF?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 07:45 AM

Just read the link in it's entirety Stu, all will be revealed.

Gilly, I don't agree with every point made in the link, socialism can work given the right conditions, but they will take generations to evolve.....at least the author points out the contradictions and dangers of "liberalism" when social and political change is sought.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 09:04 AM

I have read the article, it's a sad piece of right-wing propaganda designed to further accentuate divisions. The idea that everyone who disagrees with the alt-right is part some imagined elite is utterly ridiculous. I'm not; a lower-middle class lad from a solid working-class family who went to a shitty comprehensive on the outskirts of Brum. I was in the bottom class at my school, like everyone in my class I was written off for not being academic, my career aspirations dismissed as the school advisor tried to dump me and my friends into factories in Brum, but over the years have strived to get the education I was denied by a system that only recognised student grades as indicators of ability or potential. I've worked my tits off to get to the level of doing a PhD; and I've been dumped off this because of the idiocy and selfishness of others and the consequences of their actions (which has included the sacking my supervisor). On discussing this on the phone, the first thing the Dean said to me was "how did you get in?" when she saw my lack of qualifications. Because I fucking worked up from the bottom.

Bartholomew is a City of London ex-banker who has never been down at the bottom of the pile, ignored and considered hopeless by so many. His vitriolic attack on education is typical of the privilege of his economic class; he seems a little more than a low-grade hack without any degree of insight or even understanding of what he's talking about. Never had to struggle up the ladder, never had to fight the prejudice of those seen as 'cleverer' or this whose parents had more money. His article is little more than a boorish rant by someone lacking the emotional intelligence to even comprehend how asinine they sound; spoken out loud it would sound like Alf Garnet when pissed out of his gourd. Bartholomew's inarticulate little phlegm-ball of nastiness is a symptom of the times we live in.

This lumping together by the right that everyone who disagrees with them or thinks that human beings have potential beyond their most primal instincts betrays their own shallow wit and lack of critical thinking. Here's why artists, scientists, musicians, dancers, writers, painters, poets, doctors and any number of other professions tend towards what they call 'liberalism': they think. they consider, research, ruminate, reflect and weigh the options. They are naturally more engaged with other people, see beyond the obvious and immediate and are curious and questioning, healthily skeptical and willing to do the research, to put the effort in to FIND OUT FOR THEMSELVES. This leads them to be naturally more empathetic, tolerant and open to ideas, certainly not conservative/Conservative in outlook or opinion.

The alt-right elite cons the gullible and a certain breed working-class inverted snobs in the same way it always has. It is so vitriolic in its criticism precisely because deep down it knows in it's own black heart it's wrong and for society to function we need tolerance and understanding, equality and fairness. However, out there are still millions of working class people who remember the rise of other right-wing authoritarians, who remember why we fought them and why we must not allow their return. Who remember the origins of trades unionism and Tolpuddle Martyrs, the Chartists, the Diggers and Levellers, the Putney Debates and the Suffragettes. See? We're in good company.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 09:29 AM

Thanks for posting that link Ake, some of the thumbnail sketches contained therein described a couple of the "usual suspects" on this forum perfectly.

To those wittering on about how bloodthirsty the 20th century was and their attribution of this bloodlust to the big bad "West" particularly the UK and USA illustrates the deficiencies outlined in Akenaton's linked article from "The Spectator".

Look up the term "democide" (The slaughter of a nations population by the leaders of that nation), look at the list of the top ten "democide Leaders". Those top ten - going back to Genghis Khan - were responsible for the deaths of over 189 million people - the top four democides were all post-Second World War communist leaders who were responsible for roughly 121 million of those 189 million deaths. Communism was a total failure, socially, economically and politically, the "experiment" resulted in the needless and unnecessary deaths of millions. What prevented that disaster from being much, much worse in magnitude and scale was the fact that the attempt at bringing the benefits of communism to world was countered and resisted by "the big bad West", particularly by the USA and the UK. During the 20th Century the UK and the USA successfully saw off the threat to freedom posed by the Kaiser's military autocracy, by Nazi Germany and the Axis powers, by Communism. Since the early 1970s democracy has been under attack by radical fundamental Islam and guess who it will be that will take on and defeat that threat? The "big, bad, West" - particularly the USA and the UK, THEIR efforts up to date have given and guaranteed you all the freedoms we currently enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 10:00 AM

Stu - 28 Jan 17 - 09:04 AM

"I have read the article"

You may well have read it Stu - you certainly did not understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 10:18 AM

Understood it perfectly thank ye Tezza. It's a poorly conceived argument, replete with dishonesty and misrepresentation and a vehicle for the author's own prejudices.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 10:26 AM

"It's a poorly conceived argument, replete with dishonesty and misrepresentation and a vehicle for the author's own prejudices." - Stu

Nowhere near as much as your own "chip-on-each-shoulder" cliched rant of yours Stu.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 10:36 AM

Well let's hope that your cherished collapse of the EU never comes about. If that happens, most of the conditions that bred those murderous warmongers of the early and mid-20th century will return to Europe. I expect that hasn't really occurred to you.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 10:47 AM

"Nowhere near as much as your own "chip-on-each-shoulder" cliched rant of yours Stu."

I don't claim to be any sort of great writer, commentator or to have any great political insight. In fact, I'm as full of shit as anyone. However, so is J. Bartholomew, and like many people knows a meanie when they see one.

Do you care to address any of the comments on the subject, or are you just going to sit there and sling shit like some crotchety old, over-privileged, white, right-wing kipper?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:00 AM

"The demonization of President Trump and his unfortunate truths are an excellent example."

President Trump doesn't need anyone to demonise him. Would you care to comment on the unfortunate truths of his that lead him to consider women to be pervert-fodder, that building walls is the way to make friends, that keeping refugees and Muslims out of his country is humanitarian and inclusive and the way to end terrorism, that withdrawing aid for ideological reasons from relief agencies in third-world countries is morally correct, that torture works, that returning millions of Americans to relying on mercy for their healthcare is a progressive measure, that Putin is a great guy to cosy up to and that Israel should be encouraged to carry on settlement-building? These are his policies, among others, that presumably have been arrived at as he realised his unfortunate truths. Take them one at a time and justify them, please. I need you to persuade me why I shouldn't go ahead and demonise this fine upstanding paragon.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:08 AM

I can assure you that Bartholemew is far fuller of shit than you, Stu. You wrote a good response to that silly article with far more patience than I could have mustered. You won't get a riposte from the usual demurrers here that will contain substance other than the aforementioned brown stuff.

Am I older than you? I did two teaching practices in crappy comps on the outskirts of Brum. Knocked whatever fanciful notions I might have been harbouring about the romance of the classroom out of my head, I can tell you.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:09 AM

"...that LED him," by the way, just in case Iains is about!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:21 AM

Demonstrators punishable by death

A pending law saying states may use any and all force against any demonstrator who blocks traffic.
It may now be legal to run people over with cars etc.

(this is not a presidential order)

This floated law is a reaction to protests in North Dakota and Indiana.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:32 AM

I left in 1982. My class was the discarded misfits; people who struggled to learn and could barely write, undiagnosed dyslexics being treated as idiots, a few louts, a couple of lazy sods, those who were often bullied and mocked for being gay or fat or whatever. I grew up with most of these folk and they way they were treated was appalling, they never had a chance to even understand their potential.

I decided to get educated and it's been a battle. Those old prejudices are still in place and after my PhD went tits up (through no fault of my own) the university abandoned me as soon as it could. I have had several offers to start again, and I'm considering these.

So people dissing education and suggesting that a good education has somehow brainwashed people into not being good, unquestioning, subservient capitalist labour but has instilled in them some mythical sense of self-righteousness irks me.

It doesn't seem to occur old Bart, Trump, Farage, Bannon, Pence, May, BoJo etc etc that it's possible all these people might have reached their own conclusions about the likes of the aforementioned and all happen to agree with each other. So used are the likes of the alt-right corporate flunkies to being told what top think they don't even question whether the premise of the propaganda they so ready swallow whole is even correct. When this happens to enough people, you end up with Brexit and Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:35 AM

We had government by spiv here in the late 80s when Maggie liberated the banks and yuppies to do what the hell they wanted, unseen. Now you're getting government by one very bad man's prejudices. It's all progress, though all in the wrong direction.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:53 AM

Stu
Is 'inverted snob' a common term or your own?

You did not say if you were an undiagnosed dyslexic. You sure don't write like it.

The likelihood of dyslexia is as high as 1 in 10.
My research shows a higher incidence of more fractal chaos activity in dyslexic brains, which is a good thing for intelligence and analysis.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:58 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Well let's hope that your cherished collapse of the EU never comes about. If that happens, most of the conditions that bred those murderous warmongers of the early and mid-20th century will return to Europe. I expect that hasn't really occurred to you.

The dreadful wars of the 20th Century were an extrapolation of Empire. Empire is no longer a viable concept and therefor those kinds of wars are no longer a threat. There are other types of threat but I suspect that they will come from outside Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 12:48 PM

Trump signs order to ban refugees from 7 countries.

Those same 7 countries have never had their citizens attack the US at any time.

Who attacked us?
Saudi Arabia did, Afghanistan did, Egypt did, United Arab Emirates did and some others, but none of them are on the list.

It goes beyond refugee status of course. The ban was immediate and people are being turned around at the airport.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 01:32 PM

In what way was WWII an "extrapolation of empire?"

The EU and its predecessors came about largely as a reaction to wars in Europe. On the whole, the peace has been kept. You can only be in the EU if you are a democracy and sign up to conventions on human rights. Democracies do not go to war with each other on the whole. Oh yes, Teribus claims that it's actually been NATO who's kept the peace. Whether he's right or wrong (he's wrong, as with everything else), Trump isn't up for NATO, is he? Better pray the EU survives. With us still in it, preferably. Both the Islamists and Putin are flexing their muscles, and a nice bit of US protectionism might make China become not very nice.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 01:53 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: In what way was WWII an "extrapolation of empire?"

Don't you do history? WW II was an extrapolation of empire because WW 1 was, at least in part, a war of empires and WW 11 was Hitler's attempt at re-adjusting the result of WW 1.

It occurred to me after my previous post that perhaps the EU itself can be looked at as a kind of Empire. The possibilities for irony expand.

Whether it's the EU or NATO who's kept the peace ask yourself who's paid for it. The big yellow seems to think it's America via NATO.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 02:33 PM

Bill Maher

"Liberals must examine all the reasons why we keep losing elections. Democrats have gone from the party that protects people to the party that protects feelings."

Bill's epic rant on political correctness: The Sorrow and the Petty

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 03:55 PM

Bobad..... They have nothing else, no answers to any political problems. Eight years of ineffective government and absolutely nothing to show for it but a huge rustbelt.

Maher says that liberals must concentrate on political issues, but that is impossible, they are not about politics, they are about social upheaval and the advancement of myths.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 03:55 PM

Bit of a stretch with your empire stuff there, Stanron. As for who pays, etc., who cares? You and Teribus want the EU gone. Trump wants NATO gone. Suppose all you madmen get your desires. Plenty of room for empire-building then, eh, plenty of scope for wars. Can't help you if you can't see it. It's called "learning from history."

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 04:03 PM

I asked you some awkward questions at 11am, akenaton. It's been noted that you haven't answered. Shall I repeat them for you? Or would you rather avoid unfortunate truths? Here's an unfortunate truth for you: I won't be letting go of this. As you sow, so shall you reap (sorry, Donuel!).

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 04:19 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Suppose all you madmen get your desires

I assume your accusing me of madness is based on your assumption that I want the EU "gone". I can't speak for Teribus but I don't want the EU "gone". I want the UK to be "gone" from the EU. What happens to the EU after that is up to the EU members.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 04:23 PM

I have no need to answer any of your questions Steve, the US electorate have already done that.   If it is of any solace to you, I am not much interested in Mr Trump, the important thing as far as I am concerned is the annihilation of the "liberal" establishment and their grovelling media....which are the biggest impediment to the construction of a realistic and sustainable society.

The myth peddlers are getting their comeuppance, and that is extremely satisfying.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 04:30 PM

BTW Steve don't waste your time stalking me, as I rarely waste mine in reading any of your new world diatribes.....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 05:11 PM

I'm with Stanron, I want the UK out of the EU, that is what I and another 17.4 million people voted for. What happens to the EU thereafter is entirely up to them - clear enough for you Shaw. I ask so that in future you refrain from attributing to me things I have not said.

I think it was the predictions of the "remoaners" that the economy of the UK would crash and that we would suffer all sorts of dire consequences for having the temerity to reject that corrupt and inefficient organisation known as the EU that you so revere. Now as things have turned out, we find ourselves not at the back of any queue, our economy is outperforming every other economy in the G7, and predictions are that unless they implement long overdue reforms it will be the Eurozone that will be in trouble. Germany has already acknowledged that they cannot make good the shortfall caused by the UK leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 07:52 PM

You have made it perfectly clear that you hate the EU. Why would I think that you don't want to see it collapse? What you say about our membership applies equally to all the other 27 countries, after all. Gravy train? Undemocratic? If you think that all that means we should leave, then it logically applies to all the other nations too. So, again logically, you want the EU to collapse. Cut the bullshit and admit that it's what you would love to see. The truth is that that you know deep down that long-term peace and security in Europe needs the EU to keep going. But as a little Englander you want the EU to manage that without us. Double standard or what?

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 08:03 PM

Steve you are truly weird.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 08:12 PM

Reign of terror and new Orders of Fascism should be paramount

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 08:33 PM

Excellent debating point, Stanron! Not! 😂Try answering the question, why don't you. If you think we'd be better off outside the EU, then you clearly think that so would everyone else, no? Bar Germany maybe? So the logical conclusion is that you want to see the EU collapse. If by some twisted logic you have any other explanation, do apprise us!

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 08:51 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: If you think we'd be better off outside the EU, then you clearly think that so would everyone else, no?

No. I am a member of the UK electorate. I am not informed regarding conditions in other EU countries and do not presume to tell them what they should or shouldn't do. You appear to consider that you know everything. I am proud to be more humble and confess that I do not.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 08:59 PM

I didn't accuse you of being a hallowed member of our electorate, though I will definitely agree that you seem ill-informed. And I do indeed know everything. Of course I do. Except for about 99.9999999999999999348% of stuff, about which I know nothing.
Post sensibly is my advice.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 17 - 11:21 PM

I don/t give a shit who accused who of what ego bruise.

It is our damned American children who Trump will send off for his
ego wars.

Demonstrations at Dulles over Muslim ban. Many Muslims detained at airport.
The governor came and spoke at the airport over his disgust with trump.

Court declares a stay for many detainees.

Trump brags.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 Jan 17 - 08:28 AM

Trump's Muslim ban will have exactly the opposite effect of its stated goal of "Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by Foreign Nationals". That is if one defines "nation" as a group of citizens, not just as a plot of land. Expect a severe backlash aimed at the thousands of American workers and visitors overseas, particularly those in predominately Muslim countries. Trump has just painted targets on the backs of all of them.

ISIS should send him a "Thank You" note for the huge bump in recruitment they're about to experience.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 17 - 08:59 AM

That is what I sound like with a migraine.

The right wing message is to tell the people to shut up and take it, that the media is the enemy and marches and demonstration are all funded by Hillary and George Soros. They say there is always someone behind any opposition. It is one guy's fault not most of the people.

Even the left does this by saying it is all Trumps fault when in reality it is white Nationalist advisors like Bannon and his son in law who are really at the helm of incessant Presidential orders with no Congressional input so far.

Ignoring won't help anyone but the administration.
Instead we have to join and do a small part someplace somehow.
Eventually a division will open up on the right and we must embrace that division and welcome some of that right into our ranks.

Will this include welcoming anti abortion forces? Yes. At least some of them. The next Supreme court judge is bound to break the tie.
Will the left take this well? no.

It will take time for Senate and House seats to change over.
The irony of Obama being bound so tightly to the Constitution while Trump is successful by ignoring the Constitution is something I was too naïve about. I think we all were.

If war breaks open then you will always need to present papers and there will be no guaranteed rights or freedoms.

and that is the rest of my version of Bull Shit.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 17 - 10:46 AM

HEY UK Are you ready for some serious inflation? Prepare yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jan 17 - 11:45 AM

Bee-dubya:
I agree with you that Trump's recent orders will have negative effects. I think this is only the beginning. I'm concerned that we are going into an era of negative-plus, sort of like when the Republicans put out the "Contract With America" which the Dems called the "Contract ON America". The effects are not merely deleterious, but likely to sow disorganization.
some music

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jan 17 - 09:45 PM

Surprise, surprise.......a former Russian spy chief, Oleg Erovinkin, who was allegedly the source of much of the information Christopher Steele harvested on Trump in Russia is mysteriously found dead in the back of his car.......the FSB (formerly KGB) is investigating, lol. Christopher Steele remains in hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 17 - 03:48 AM

"BBC News this morning has reported that the petition has been rejected by the Tory government"
I knew nothing of this petition - I assume this is a different petition I received this morning (message dated yesterday)

"Ian Saville 20 hrs ·
There is a petition asking that Trump not be invited for a state visit, which I have signed. However, I have also put up a petition saying he should not be invited for any sort of visit:
I've made a petition – will you sign it?
Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/…/spons…/yPupbe6AYDPTwro9b8Tq
My petition:
Donald Trump should be banned from visiting the United Kingdom.
Given Donald Trump's executive order barring citizens from 7 Muslim countries from entering the United States, his views on climate change, his attitude to women, his encouragement of violence and the authoritarian tone of his statements, it is not in the interests of the UK to allow him to visit.
It is clear that Donald Trump is an authoritarian President, whose views pose a grave danger to UK citizens and to the whole world. Allowing him to visit our country as though he were a normal leader will add to his authority and strengthen his power. He must not be treated as normal. He has already demonstrated that the rhetoric he spouted during his election campaign was not just bluster, and he is prepared to put extreme anti-humanitarian policies into practice. We must not give him credence.
Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/…/spons…/yPupbe6AYDPTwro9b8Tq
I attempted to sign it only to find that it has been blocked pending investigation
What the **** is happening?
This is totally unprecedented.
This is appalling - an open case of an attempt to block protest on behalf of an extremist right wing foreign leader.
"It would be wise Not to antagonise President Donal John in this manner."
And we have our own home-grown little crop of right wing Mudcat quislings ready to sell out our democracy on behalf of this monster.
One of Trump's first actions on being elected was to demand that Farage, the fascist residue of British politics, be appointed Ambassador
This piece of work jas his supporters here as well - 'bout time we dug out our "be careful of who you talk to - wall have ears" notices.
Getting our front doors kicked in by jackboots seems the logical next step.
And still our home-grown Trumpeters refuse to address either Trump's extremist nature and the effect it is beginning to have on all of us.
'Bout time they crawled out of their woodwork and justified themselves.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 17 - 10:39 PM

bobad another FSB Russian spy was imprisoned 2 weeks ago .


TRUMP FIRES ATTORNEY GENERAL Sally Yate would not enforce Muslim ban

the new yes man will be Dana Boetner (Bentner)

Sounds like Nixon all over again

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 04:54 AM

Disobey a direct order in any organisation and you tend to get fired.
You can always try your luck in court if you have an issue with it, unless in the military where the word fire just may mean that literally.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 05:33 AM

Regarding this "reign of terror" and the seeming cascade of Presidential Memoranda and Executive Orders. Is the man doing anything that he said he wouldn't do during his election campaign? Is he doing what he said he would do?

If the answer to the first question is NO, and the answer to the second is YES, then there can be no complaint as he is giving the American electorate exactly what it said on the box.

As for the Attorney General, I am with Iains on that. Under the system of Government in the USA any political appointee who gets into a pissing contest with the President is going to end up on the losing side of the argument.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 05:59 AM

"For you stevie how about "Your Supreme Arrogance"?
and for you Jimmy "The Lord High Ranter"."
Wheren't you the one whingeing about people being rude to you
It seems Trump has dragged you out of your closet too
You have offered vacuous rudeness rather that actual ideas - you'll have to join the list to become a member of that sect - they have their stars already - all you are doing is borrowing their phraseology - not even original in your abuse
Give is a break Iains - this I a debating forum not an abuse column
And now we have Teribus "not supporting Trump"
Why don't you people have the balls to admit where you stand?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 06:27 AM

Interesting that I should be accused of "dropping by." An idle quick count shows that this is approximately my 40th post in this thread. It's a bit like accusing Theresa May of "dropping by" Number Ten! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: gillymor
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 08:52 AM

In 1933 a lot of Germans adopted a wait and see attitude toward Herr Hitler and by the time they "saw" it was too late.

Subject: RE: BS: reign of terror
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jan 17 - 09:18 AM

"if the woman disagreed with the policy she should have resigned"

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation and the issues it raise. Sally Yates is responsible for ensuring adherence to the law and the constitution; it's her job to tell the incumbent President whether what they are doing follows the letter of the law. In this case, she did the only thing she could. She swears an oath to the constitution, not the president.

Nice to see you're supporting the breakdown of law and order.