BS: uk politics

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 03:15 AM

By the way
"he British Government has sold neither weapons OR ammunition to Syria - FACT."
Britain sold the materials for Assad to create his aresnal of chemical weapons, which he used on his own people - FACT
William Hague, described once as "the best Prime Minister Britian never had" stated publicly that the chemicals sold to Syria were quite likely to have been used in the manufacture of Weapons - FACT
The Government implicated the British people in the gassing of the Syrian people FACT
No amount of manipulation and quibbling about small arms sales (which rate small next to the sale of chemicals, riot control equipment, armoured cars and tear gas that was also sold and used against the Syrian people) changes one iota of Britain's blood trade on arms - FACT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 03:27 AM

I know nothing of the situation involving the "sniper rifles" Jim, I have never commented on it and I don't think it even pertains to this thread.

I wish you would stop digging up the subject whenever you get out of your depth.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 03:34 AM

Teribus, British companies have sold arms to Syria and, much more reprehensibly in my view, to Saudi Arabia. Now you seem to somehow absolve Britain of blame with your phrase "...Britain, as in the British Government..." Its not the British Government which is Britain in this context. This is the whole military-industrial complex. One branch does not act with the complicity of the other, particularly in the case of Saudi Arabia where government ministers and officials have been busy glad handing despots so that British companies can make arms sales. Just because the government doesn't make the weapons with its own bare hands, doesn't absolve it of responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 03:42 AM

"quite likely to have been used" does not mean WERE USED - the latter is YOUR completely unsubstantiated interpretation of what William Hague said.

Subsequent BIS investigation matched the quantities of "dual purpose" chemicals exported to Syria to the products produced by the declared "End User" Companies and found that the quantities sent corresponded to the volume of product produced. That being the case what was, what could have been, DIVERTED?

So Jom who was it that posted this:

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 05:39 AM

"So you intend to continue to ignore the horrors of Homs brought about by sniper rifles sold by Britain - specifically for use on the civilian population"

Someone else?

A mistake? Then where is your admission and your apology for posting such a lie? Or did you fall back on the "socialists" excuse - "It's always somebody else's fault?

The UK - "last year reckoned to be the second largest arms dealer in the world" - What comic did you get that out of Jom - another lie another gross misrepresentation. Here is the actual 2016 "League Table" when it comes to the Arms Trade by Nation according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute:

1 - United States - $47,169,000,000

2 - Russia - $33,186,000,000 [Note to Jom: NOT the UK]

3 - China - $9,132,000,000

4 - France - $8,564,000,000

5 - Germany - $7,946,000,000

6 - United Kingdom - $6,586,000,000

7 - Spain - $3,958,000,000

8 - Italy - $3,823,000,000

9 - Ukraine - $3,677,000,000

10 - Israel - $3,233,000,000

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 03:48 AM

"British companies have sold arms to Syria"

Now that statement is quite clear and definite David Carter(UK) - So please provide details of what British Companies have sold what arms to Syria.

Now this may, or may not, sound rather old fashioned to you, but if you cannot do that, then you have no right to broadcast something you know to be a lie, you have no right to deliberately misrepresent things.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 04:08 AM

I think a dose of reality is required, all major nations are involved in the "arms trade"......we don't like it, but the fact is that war is "profitable" and most nations are run on a "for profit" principle.
To change that will take generations, political unity and evolution of the human mind.

At present we must work with what we have if we wish to finance our public services.....sometimes people just can't afford perfect principles.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 04:20 AM

There is no current political debate in UK on the issue of arms sales.
When there is it would be appropriate to discuss it here.
Until then it belongs in a different thread.
It is just an attempt to derail this thread.

Jim,
"We do trade with governments that are not democratic and have bad human rights records",

Of course we do. Countries that do not choose democracy are still entitled to defend themselves.
Of all nations, UK is the most restrictive on who it sells arms to.

You choose to live in Ireland. Ireland requires armaments and goes to arms dealers for them. It is a legitimate trade.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 05:02 AM

Of all nations, UK is the most restrictive on who it sells arms to." please provide stats to back this up

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 05:15 AM

Sandman, see the arms trade thread.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 05:28 AM

Nah then, Bill, why didn't YOU toddle off and ask Joe, Pete, etc., about my views on religion? While you're at it, explain to your mate Keith why you tried to derail his thread by gratuitously bringing religion into it. Utterly inexplicable. Silly bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 05:45 AM

Nice try Shaw but no coconut.

Religion came into the thread due to YOU wittering on about beheadings in Saudi Arabia introduced by YOU. I merely cited an offence for which YOU could be beheaded in Saudi Arabia.

No need to ask Joe or Pete anything Shaw - I just go to the horse's mouth - i.e. your own posting history - that you cannot quibble about.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 05:54 AM

The first time #Croydon has ever failed a social services inspection - only with @CroydonLabour in charge: croydonconservatives.com/news_search_re…

Disgraceful failure by Croydon Labour Council!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 06:24 AM

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 06:24 AM

I didn't mention religion at all in relation to the beheadings count. You brought it up first at 10.38 am yesterday, quite gratuitously. I think you'd better look to your own not-so-latent Islamophobia in order to explain why you were so anxious to throw that into the ring. There was something else, too, utterly irrelevant, some mention of trade union activism, as I recall. You're losing it, pal. Why not go and sing a song instead? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 07:06 AM

we beheaded Sir Thomas More on a point of religious doctrine.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 07:11 AM

Oi, Al, what's with this "we?" You'll be telling me next you believe in original sin! 😉

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 07:16 AM

"Of all nations, UK is the most restrictive on who it sells arms to."
"Vince Cable, the business secretary, has admitted as much. "We do trade with governments that are not democratic and have bad human rights records", he told a crossparty group of senior MPs. "We do business with repressive governments and there's no denying that"."
These weapons are not specifically for defence and are widely being used to suppress legitimate protest - as in the case of the armoured cars tear gas, and riot control
THis is a sick defence of a sick trade
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 07:41 AM

BRITISH SUPPLIED ("DEFENSIVE") CLUSTER BOMBS !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Stu
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 08:02 AM

Ad infinitum.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 08:48 AM

BRITISH SUPPLIED ("DEFENSIVE") CLUSTER BOMBS !!!

BRITISH SUPPLIED CLUSTER BOMBS IN 1980'S - CLUSTER BOMBS OUTLAWED IN 2010!!!

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 08:57 AM

Saudi also supplies 10% of our oil and as Norway depletes this figure may well increase.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 09:03 AM

Blackmail!

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 09:13 AM

Cluster munitions are only "outlawed" by countries who have signed the 2010 convention. A few choice non-signatories are Saudi Arabia (who have used them in Yemen), tbe US, Israel and Turkey. Plenty more.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 09:14 AM

CLUSTER BOMBS OUTLAWED IN 2010!!!
Saudi Arabia has finally admitted that it used UK-manufactured cluster bombs against Houthi rebels in Yemen, increasing pressure on the British government which has repeatedly refused to curb arms sales to Riyadh." 2016
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 09:21 AM

THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME ???
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 09:38 AM

Here is an example Teribus. That is to Syrian rebels in that instance.

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 09:38 AM

"THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME ???"

In the real world it is called progress-for good or ill.

Are you recommending we revert to bows and arrows?

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 10:20 AM

"In the real world it is called progress-for good or ill."
Laser weaponry
I would say it was a sign of modern savagery
One of the aspects of this filth being examined it the possibility of blinding the enemy
Are you advocating this as a moral way fr human beings to remain?
Give me bows and arrows any day
I brought it up because, should it be fully developed there is no reason for it not to be part of the arms trade
That would be a thing for the Saudis to pass on to their terrorist friends to use in their struggle

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 10:21 AM

MISSED A BIT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: uk politics
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 10:45 AM

But David Carter it is all part of the great game and nothing is as simple as it seems


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