BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 09:21 AM

Dave,
Fuck off Keith

You stated, " The subsequent mismanagement of the whole affair by our government is an absolute disgrace."

It is perfectly reasonable to ask to what you refer Dave.
Why be so nasty?

Please give an example of the mismanagement you refer to.
What would you have done differently?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 09:40 AM

Please give an example of the mismanagement you refer to

Seeing as you are being so polite.

Please fuck off Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 09:49 AM

Oh well, this thread was working well until the usual suspects started displaying their usual antagonisms, too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 09:51 AM

I do not understand why you are refusing to join in civil discussion or why you think dirty words and playground name calling is acceptable in a serious thread.

I hope some action is taken.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:00 AM

Bobad. the thread was working very well until 20 Mar 18 at 08:36 AM. We can draw our own conclusions.

Keith. I happily joined in the very civil discussion until you started with your usual bollocks. I have told you many times in the past that I think you are a fucking idiot. Many people on here, including some moderators, think you are a fucking idiot. You are the most dishonest and devious person I have ever had the misfortune to meet. Why would I want to get into a civil debate with a twat such as you?

Now, fuck off.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:01 AM

Your problem, Keith, is that all your contributions below the line these days are agenda-laden pure poison. You're getting exactly what you deserve, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:06 AM

Dave stated, " The subsequent mismanagement of the whole affair by our government is an absolute disgrace."

It is perfectly reasonable to ask to what he referred.
There is absolutely to justification for the vile language and abuse in reply to a reasonable and civil question.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:08 AM

You don't do reasonable civil questions, Keith. You attempt to lay traps for the unwary. Unfortunately for you everyone else understands this now.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:24 AM

I apologise to all, apart from Keith who deserves it, for having to put up with my language above. I shall desist forthwith and restrict myself to non offensive responses. I still have the same views about Keith and his narcissistic personality disorder but you should not all have to put up with my frustration at his devious and malicious ways.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:33 AM

I started this thread....

So I say swearing is big and clever and cool, and most welcome here...

But boring old gits need to think twice about being so persistently relentlessly repetitive and boring...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:36 AM

Jim
agaibh bum 'S e mach air an uinneig

""No" more than "noony", I'd dat" I thought was a typo and was ingnoring it

Touche

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 10:48 AM

Thanks PFR :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 11:45 AM

""No" more than "noony","
Can't remember exact translation (haven't used it since teenage days and it was a phonetic stab anyway), but it roughly meant ' if you can't pay the entrance fee, you can't come in"
I have no Irish/Scots so you'll have to explain
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 12:08 PM

I think Keith's query was reasonable and has yet to be answered. What has been botched about the UK response to the extremely nasty attack on legal residents and the suspicious deaths of many others? (And the ominous statements from the Russians).

DTG obvious has it in for this poster but can only repetitively swear. At least try to be clever.

As for the other Putin fans: Crimea River!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 12:16 PM

DTG obvious has it in for this poster but can only repetitively swear.

Not true Robomatic, I can do far worse than that :-) Besides I have now apologised for all the swearing even though it was justified.


At least try to be clever.

There is no point. It goes straight over the head of some but, just for you, I will comment further on PFRs statement that is is big and clever to swear. What do you call a stupid Gnome? Nothing. It's not big and it's not clever...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 12:42 PM

My dad told me that one thing he learned from post war national service as ground crew in the RAF,
was that the public school educated officer class
were outstandingly inventive and hilariously entertaining with their masterful command of obscene vocabulary...

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 01:10 PM

Dave,
Keith. You attempt to lay traps for the unwary.

Huh?
I just asked what mismanagement you referred to.
All you had to do was tell us.
How is that a trap?
You are being weird.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 01:15 PM

And you are being Keith. I have no intention of entering into any discourse with you. There lies the route to insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 01:16 PM

"mismanagement"...???

well.. errrmmm.. letting Boris loose to open his gob, for one thing.....


Now he is certainly a master of being easily convinced and certain on extremely problematic and complcated issues...

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 01:41 PM

No need to explain, PFR, everyone understands what we are on about bar one. And he is just fishing for a fight. Feel free to continue if you want to don the gloves but remember that it will just be peeing in the wind.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 01:48 PM

Nah.. I was just being a smart arse for my own amusement..

Kieth should know by now I don't engage in his games,
unless i choose to for a laugh...


Which is a shame really, because he may once have been a bright interesting bloke to talk with...?????

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 02:14 PM

Lads - lads
Don't et this clown run another thread into the ground
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 02:15 PM

He was! A long time ago though. Not sure what happened to change that.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 03:00 PM

Something more is happening to Dave the Gnome to be responding in such an anti community manner lately. He is not always this incendiary. It would be best if he were given some slack until things hopefully resolve.
All the best Dave.



Punkrocker' There are some black and white questions that forever turn some shade of grey.
These murder attempts are a dark Russian grey.

As to actors who cyber attack Democracy there are a whole host of respondsible parties like Face book, Russian Trolls, UK Cambridge Analytica, The Mercers, Bannon and Putin.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 03:06 PM

Thanks Donuel. I know what it was and it is resolved. Your concern is appreciated.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 03:16 PM

Perhaps it is just an unresolved Brexit debate with Keith.
He's not a registered Nazi is he?

Russia controls (with capability and intent) in at least 21 States regarding US elections. The cyber war is worse than you think.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 03:23 PM

He's not a registered Nazi is he?

You are, as ever, the most perceptive of 'catters :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 05:09 PM

"The fact that you have no answer indicates that you don't believe your atrocious holocaust-denying bullshit any more than anybody else does and are just riding it for attention"
I see the resident clown has come out to close yet another thread with his stupidity.

The discussion was entirely civil until he popped out of his bog, muttering his usual mishmash of gibberish and insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: mayomick
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 06:38 PM

Putin dismissed the whole affair as "absurd" when asked about it at his post- election press conference today. The first thing that came to mind he said was that ,had a military grade nerve agent been used, both the Skirpals would have died instantaneously.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 07:05 PM

Putin dismissed the whole affair as "absurd"

Lololol.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 07:10 PM

I've had it out with various 'catters in these venues but with the increase in sunlight radiating into my brain I've realized that there are some big problems out there that dwarf any minor irritation any of you blighters can produce, and some profound joys and wonders that any of you fine people can and do appreciate along with moi-meme. So I hope to be entertained by the clever of any extraction and to shed more light than heat, but of course the devil over me left shoulder might encourage me to say something especially nasty now and then and I hope that the thread closers out there will look upon such mutterings as spiceful and not close-another-damn-threadful.

Right now I've taken a pill and I love you all, semi-carnally.

Now back to the subject, which is extremely interesting. Let's go with that Putin comment: "If it had been one of our nerve agents, no one would've survived."
Apparently the British have a good idea of the nerve agent and there are three casualties, all alive, but all unwell, two particularly so. I haven’t heard any details and I don’t know if this is because I haven’t read the right news feeds or because those with the facts are keeping them close, which I’m sure is what I’d do. And if I were the Russians I’d be very interested either way. Either I’ve tried to kill someone and failed, or someone has tried to kill someone and put the frame on me. Worthy of a detective novel, and sure to be one soon.
This is reminiscent, somewhat, of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, where it’s hard to believe that someone doesn’t know what happened, but it’s clearly very important to secure the means of knowing what happened.
So, clearly the UK feels justified in putting the arm on the Soviets, excuse me, the Russians. And clearly they hope they have enough of the public trust to be able to abstain from spilling the beans on all they know, which clearly the Russians would love to have in any case.
We’re living in an age of more exposure and less trust, and the two are definitely related. It’s a case of the ease of clinging to faith in darkness, and the more light that’s shed lessens the causeless fear, raises the fear with cause, and lowers respect for all the great institutions which could flourish in darkness.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 07:20 PM

Robomatic .... do you mean " a big boy done it and ran away?"

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 07:44 PM

The Prime Minister Mrs May said: "Either this was a direct action by the Russian state against our country, or the Russian government lost control of its potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others."(BBC)

Well what was it?
In my view if you are going to blame a country for losing something it is very different to accusing them of using an agent to deliberately "incapacitate" people.

So if your car is stolen and is driven into pedestrians it is your fault.
Some very dodgy logic and equally dodgy conclusions!
It all seems very pyrhonesque if it was not so serious. It is obviously not just Boris that is a buffoon.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:14 PM

On top of that we're expected to accept the assertion that stuff that has been around for over thirty years has never been anywhere except in Russia and couldn't have been made anywhere except in Russia. Even worse, we're expected to believe that you can track the stuff's precise origins from its breakdown products. There's a very murky agenda afoot here. Now I note that the government has bottled it on imposing any further sanctions. We're apparently waiting for our allies. Really convincing stuff, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 04:34 AM

Naught to do with a tamed brexit of course! Defence and the EU. one for all and all for one blah blah blah!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 05:28 AM

"I see the resident clown has come out to close yet another thread with his stupidity.
The discussion was entirely civil until he popped out of his bog, muttering his usual mishmash of gibberish and insanity."
You statement sums up what you are about
Like policemen and number 22 buses, There's never a forum fairy around when you want one, is there ?
Grow up
I have asked a civil question civilly, and receive only personal abuse
And still no reply as to why the civilised world is wrong and you are right
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 05:29 AM

Mayo,
The first thing that came to mind he said was that ,had a military grade nerve agent been used, both the Skirpals would have died instantaneously.

No.
"While the chemical would take effect “almost instantaneously” if inhaled, Mr. Kaszeta said, it would work much more slowly, perhaps over a matter of hours, if absorbed through the skin. The agent is activated when it comes in contact with water and would be absorbed through the pores, slowed down by subcutaneous fat, Mr. Kaszeta said.
At first the effect would be felt locally, around the point of exposure.
Once the chemical entered the bloodstream, it would cause the victim’s muscles to go into spasms, pupils to shrink to pinpoints, and breathing to become very labored, said Alastair Hay, an emeritus professor of toxicology at the University of Leeds. At this point, the victim’s life could be saved only by the administration of atropine, which counteracts the agent and allows the body to metabolize it."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/world/europe/uk-russia-spy-poisoning.html
Atropine is readily available in AandE units.

Steve,
On top of that we're expected to accept the assertion that stuff that has been around for over thirty years has never been anywhere except in Russia and couldn't have been made anywhere except in Russia

These things are developed and held in great secrecy.
If they have lost control of it they should say how and who to.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 06:03 AM

I refuse to pick up your dummy jimmie. Go away before you shut down yet another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 06:47 AM

An interesting read:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48966.htm

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 06:53 AM

Yep. Just another source, but a bloody interesting one nonetheless. As I said, the drip-feed of evidence to the public has dried up. In two weeks, all we've had is the formulaic diplomat-swap. I predict that this story will not run and not run.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 07:06 AM

I predict that it will.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 07:18 AM

"Donald Trump and Jean-Claude Juncker have broken ranks with western disapproval for Vladimir Putin, issuing their congratulations to the Russian leader for his electoral success even as diplomats were flown out of the UK in retribution for the Salisbury nerve agent attack."

Non believers perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 07:38 AM

"I refuse to pick up your dummy jimmie. Go away before you shut down yet another thread."
I don't know if your behaviour is down to a medical condition or simple a result of bad upbringing, but either way, you really need to learn to control it
What you are doing is cyber-bullying from the safety of anonymity and distance
If you continue to behave as you do I will formally request that you are removed -
I have not insulted anybody and it is your behaviour and attempts to silence opinions that you can't deal with that will close this thread - another scalp on your belt.
Please stop it now before somebody else has to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 08:07 AM

Now now girls handbags at dawn havnt closed threads YET

An interesting piece from Mary Beard TV historian
I'm not looking for aspersions to be cast but I am looking for some folks to take a good look in the mirror and see if they can identify themselves and make a public confession
Ps I'm not holding my breath

Have a read at Psychology of internet trolls

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 08:41 AM

Interesting piece, Kenny, and yes I have displayed some of these traits in so much as I have purposely tried to be as obnoxious as possible on this and other threads. I have since apologised and promised to moderate my language. What I found most interesting was that Ms Beard says In a comprehensive examination of their psychological profile, trolls were found to be more Machiavellian (impulsive and charming manipulators. I do find that while I can live with straight forward abuse, and dish it out, it is the incideous machinations of these trolls that I believe to be far more harmful.

I can see why others may class my behaviour as trollish at times in that it can be seen as anti-social. I will try to moderate that myself. In my defense I can honestly say that I only resort to abuse when nothing else has worked and I am frustrated by others! My bad I suppose. At least I am open and above board about it rather than devious and scheming :-)

Now, speaking of devious poisons, back to novichoks...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 08:54 AM

Thank you DtG for an interesting reply.
Personally, being a Libra and always looking for a balance and smiling in the face of adversity, I tend to go to the side of self depreciating humor , it doesn't always work but its more fun,
Ps the spelling error is deliberate

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 09:01 AM

No probs, Kenny. Yes, I do rely on a little self deprecation on occasions. I tried it in this post but I suspect it was missed amongst all the shouting :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 09:54 AM

I don't like the dismissive term 'troll' - and am suspicious of folks who do overuse it.

I just feel more comfy in the belief that we are all varying degrees of 'arsehole' or 'wanker'..
some far more than others..
and any of us more or less of an arsehole or wanker at any time
depending on mood, provocations, and any other of the various behavoural modifiers...

Special mention, though, reserved for 'arseholes' who are also 'wankers'... wow..!!!

Respect.. that is an extra enormous achievement....

Now back to if the Russians dunnit or not....

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 10:01 AM

btw... 'arseholes' who are also 'wankers'

ie.. what a warsole...

On impulse I just googled "warsole" and it doesn't seem to exist...????

So I claim warsole as originated in and for the exclusive use of mudcat... if you lad's like the sound of it....???

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 18 - 10:07 AM

spoke too soon... I mis spelled my own word and googled with a missing 'e'...

But 'warsehole ' only shows up once from 2010, and with an unclear useage..

So yeah why not.. I still claim WARSEHOLE for mudcatters...