BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 02:53 PM

I'm absolutely pro Russian people...

I just happen to think their and our political & military leaders, intelligence agencies, and media are absolute deranged arseholes...

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 03:32 PM

I think Putin and his gofors are great practitioners of the "Who are you going to believe: Me or your lyin' eyes?" school of controversy.

Viz their continuing use of the un-uniformed Russian soldiers currently maintaining the Ukrainian 'civil war'.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop from the Netherlands on account of their planeload of dead citizens shot down over Ukraine in the Malaysian Airlines incident.

One thing they can get out of the current poisoning fracas is learning how far along their opponents are at teasing out the technology for detecting and perhaps counter-acting their chemical weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 04:00 PM

"I'm absolutely pro Russian people..."
Me too - I always have been
Great company - even though they could always drink me under the table
Another sign of a deteriorating system is when its supporters invent terms like "fake news" to explain what's happening
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 04:01 PM

"It would be ungrateful of Donald Trump not to send a kind word to Putin, who invested far more time and effort on Trump’s election than he has on his own."

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 04:08 PM

You know, I think this is the only thread I have seen where everyone seems to agree about something. Shame Keith is away. I'm sure he would disagree:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 04:38 PM

I think it's very important to not let anti-Russia sentiment cloud the thinking on this.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 04:53 PM

it is a possibilty that it could be MI5, who benefits... the uk government they then have a convenient bogeyman to divert people attention from other matters. of course i cannot prove it but neither is there any proof it was russia

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:22 PM

Oh good Christ here come the conspiracy theories.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:28 PM

The chief conspiracy theory is that Russia dunnit and well they're reds so what evidence do you need! Thing is, that one came first, which makes every other evidence-innocent notion that follows it a "conspiracy theory." Meself, I fink it woz God wot dunnit...

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:33 PM

I haven't detected any anti-Russian sentiment here but I have detected virtue signalling.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:37 PM

Speak English.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:43 PM

Steve, I'm guessing you're unfamiliar with Google. See if you can click here

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:23 PM

I'm very familiar with the fact that he's your bosom buddy, Jeri. Shall we just leave it there, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:23 PM

You got a 1 stuck in your link which muddies the waters Jeri so to make it simple:

Urban Dictionary: Virtue Signalling

To take a conspicuous but essentially useless action ostensibly to support a good cause but actually to show off how much more moral you are than everybody else.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:31 PM

Well if that's the definition of that uber-clever little phrase, I'm afraid it means that you don't understand the thrust of this thread. Well, actually, you've revealed that in spades already: "I hate Russia so whatever anyone says about Russia that's bad must be true." Thing is, bobad, some of us are trying to have a grown-up discussion free of anti-Russian prejudice. I invite you to join us.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:46 PM

Yet more virtue signalling from Shaw. He is an adult, you see, and any one who disagrees with him is prejudiced and thus morally inferior.

For the morally superior amongst us, my father was born in Russia as were both my wife's parents.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:53 PM

Er, big deal. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:55 PM

I find it surprising that the BBC should photoshop Corbyn. Could they have been lent on? He is the only major politician to have queried the accepted mantra of "blame Putin for everything, even the weather". I detest Corbyn, but I find it very instructive the way he is
being "marginalised" both by the majority party, many of his own party and the mainstream media. Seems parliament is inhabited by many not so useful idiots.
Brexit is a far more important topic yet is being pushed totally off the agenda by supposed Vlad the lad, who seems to have inherited the worst character traits of both Rasputin and Vlad the impaler, if everything said about the man is to be believed.
I wonder if the PM and Boris are merely puppets? and if so, who is pulling the strings? It seems to me that one false flag event in the wrong place could make the assassination of the Grand Duke seem merely a lover's tiff in comparison to a modern war in europe. Modern wars now put civilians in the front line. A nice war is one way of guaranteeing limits to growth of population. Do you consider yourself a useless eater? Pretty sure them people upstairs do. Is the reset button about to be pushed?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 07:27 PM

Jezza is the leading doubting voice in the country. He's stuck to his guns despite the attacks on him from all sides. I don't know why you detest him. I understand fully anyone who dislikes his politics, for sure. There's plenty about him that worries me to the core, and I won't be joining Momentum any time soon. But why would you detest a man who has no ego, is diffident in the extreme and who is unspun and as straight as a die? So do you feel threatened by him, and, if so, why?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 10:22 PM

"The nerve agent that poisoned the Russian spy Sergei Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow, intelligence agencies now believe.

Senior sources have told the Telegraph they are convinced the Novichok nerve agent was hidden in the luggage of Yulia Skripal, the double agent’s 33-year-old daughter.

They are working on the theory that the toxin was impregnated in an item of clothing or cosmetics or else in a gift that was opened in his house in Salisbury, meaning Miss Skripal was deliberately targeted to get at her father."

The Telegraph

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 10:32 PM

That legless yarn is four days old. A little while ago you were ridiculing somebody else here for their conspiracy theories. So your Torygraph conspiracy theories are good but those of others are crap. Nice work.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 06:04 AM

"Senior sources have told the Telegraph they are convinced"

Well I am not!
I do not believe in father christmas, or the tooth fairy either.

"Senior sources" = A feeble attempt to convince the masses that the source has credibility. Of such devices is made the onward march of propaganda.
We are now importing foreign experts to confirm the source of the poison-no doubt it comes in a sack with a visiting card enclosed.
Another pathetic attempt, publicised in the daily wail, to add momentum to the current fairy tale.
Meanwhile Vlad the lad is re-elected with a huge majority, naval forces gather in the Med, and brexit draws ever nearer.

Is real news being buried by this poisoning distraction?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 06:19 AM

Is real news being buried by this poisoning distraction?

Maybe the removal of free school meals from thousands of disadvantaged children and buying the DUP vote on that by saying it will not apply in Northern Ireland.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Stanron
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 06:53 AM

All the talk on the TV this morning is about childhood obesity. Maybe the removal of free school meals is evidence of our government's concern over child health.

Steve you debunk theories you dislike. What do you think actually happened in Salisbury. Do you think that no one was poisoned? That it was not done by Putin? That it was not done by anyone from Russia? Did our government do it to discredit Russia or bury bad news? You seem quite sure about what it was not. What do you think it was?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 07:02 AM

Maybe the removal of free school meals is evidence of our government's concern over child health.

Aah, of course. That must be it. Looking forward to the next phase of the Tory child care package now. Sending kids up chimneys and to the mills to ensure they get plenty of exercise.

Are you spectacularly good at irony Stanron or are you really stupid enough to believe what you just said?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 07:24 AM

Very convenient that a doctor and nurse just happened by when the poisoning occurred.
Very convenient that Porton Down is about 8 miles from Salisbury.
Very convenient that Porton Down is probably the only place in the UK where the poison could be analysed so quickly and definitively.
matey boy Skripal once worked there also.
If Russia wanted to send a message, the word would soon get out that certain persons no longer breathed. The very public and unique nature of both the poisoning of the polonium kid and Sergei Skripal and his daughter simply would not be necessary. Also leaving a trail a mile wide does not seem over clever-deliberately careless in fact.
Everyone shouts it was russia than done it, yet no one yet states that they have proof, merely a lot of shouting designed to look like proof if only subjected to cursory examination.
I guarantee we will hear of those nasty russians and syrians using chemical warfare in the very near future. Especially now public opinion has been massaged in the right direction.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 08:18 AM

I guarantee we will hear of those nasty russians and syrians using chemical warfare in the very near future.

I guess documented proof of the use of both sarin and chlorine gas against Syrian civilians is a false flag to apologists like you.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 08:34 AM

That was completely unjustified, Stanron. I don't know any more than you do what happened in Salisbury and every post I make on this topic expresses uncertainties and doubts and the need for real rather than circumstantial evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 08:45 AM

"documented proof of the use of both sarin and chlorine gas against Syrian civilians is a false flag to apologists like you."

The same sort of "documented proof" proving the Russians are poisoning spies.

Meanwhile back at the ranch the sales of the military industrial carry on expanding.

Gotta have an enemy to justify/ all these sales!

I cannot offer proof to justify my way of thinking, but then proof to offer a counter view is also unavailable.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 09:31 AM

In need of light relief in these troubling times...???

Atomic Blonde (2017)

"An undercover MI6 agent is sent to Berlin during the Cold War to investigate the murder of a fellow agent
and recover a missing list of double agents."

A cracking good old style grimy spy yarn packed with action, intrigue, paranoia, and nudey ladies..
all to a thumping Berlin 1980s soundtrack beat...

I watched it last night - well worth a few quid - and hardly more far fetched than present reality....

"They found a Russian bullet in his skull - it must have been the Russians...!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 09:41 AM

False News
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-chemicalweapons/chemical-weapons-watchdog-found-sarin-used-in-march-syria-attack-sources-idUSKBN1C91XJ
MORE
MORE
MORE
CHEMICALS USED 16 TIMES
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-warcrimes/syrian-government-forces-used-chemical-weapons-more-than-two-dozen-times-u-n-idUSKCN1BH18W

"Infamy, infamy - they've all got it in for me"
How long ar holocaust deniers going to ignore these reports?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 09:50 AM

"How long ar holocaust deniers going to ignore these reports?"
TWERP!!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 10:43 AM

Back to your abusive behaviour Iains - it didn't take long
These are researched and pretty well verified occurrences - if you have any evidernce to teh contrary apart from your Kenneth Williamsish protestations of an international plot, please provide
Otherwise - you are denying the mass murder by illegal means of civilians - there's enough of them to be deserve the description of 'holocaust'
Your use of Trumpist 'Fake News' has worn somewhat thin
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 11:53 AM

If you want to act the fool do not be so surprised when you get treated as one. Simples! As they say. There is no fool like an old fool.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 12:38 PM

"There is no fool like an old fool."
Bacck in uit comfort zone and safe from the adults then
There is something particularly inhuman about denying the mass murder of civilians by putting it down to 'fake news'
One of the problems today's mass-murderers is that everything they do is public
Are you seriously suggesting that eye-witness reports by MÉDECINS SANS FRONTIÈRES , HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH and AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL are all part of a massive smear campaign against Russia and her allies?
Any moron can defend atrocities by just denying them - at least David Irving made an effeort to gover up tens of millions of deaths - you don't even bother.
Please don't disappoint me by responding to this with anything other than vacuous abuse - the betting shop closes in an hour!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 02:40 PM

luckily I wrote a song about this very subject a short while ago.


https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/im-a-homicidal-maniac-working-for-the-kgb

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 03:46 PM

Good song Al.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 04:17 PM

Ill second that Al its soulmate B o H M is appreciated anytime ive been allowed to sing it

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 05:49 PM

Putin sure as shootin has been in power
longer than Stalin.
Vladimir is glad he's here hopin
he'll beat big bad Joe,
By touchin his opponents and
leave em nerve dead or crawlin.
Yup he's a megalomaniacal whatever
and we'd be glad to see him go.

kudos Al.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 06:46 PM

Interview with Irwin Cotler of the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights who was himself a victim of Putin's "hospitality": Culture of Impunity.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 07:26 PM

To be fair America kind of hypno-hacked themsleves with a UK Cambridge Analytica company back by US Mercer money and Bannon policy, all directed in manipulating 50 million Face book subscribers who were targeted and secretly hacked.

Russia was not the sole cause of Bexit and Trump. So were consevative corporate billionaires. This modern James Bond plot is invisible to many because they can't see the forest because there are trees in the way.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cambridge-analytica-channel-4-expose-facebook-users-monday-night/

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 08:03 PM

I'm going to try to remember the term "virtue signalling" although I'm confident that if it is used in too blatent a context it will call for a reverse blast of some kind of 'blame labelling'. It all falls under the term I'm hearing a lot: "code switching" which means to me the familiarity and use of modern cultural argots.

Meanwhile, I yield to none in my love of Russian culture, but Russians have their ways. I worked with a Russian for a couple of years and found for him the poem that got Osip Mandelstam sent to the Gulag.

The Stalin Epigram

Our lives no longer feel ground under them.
At ten paces you can’t hear our words.

But whenever there’s a snatch of talk
it turns to the Kremlin mountaineer,

the ten thick worms his fingers,
his words like measures of weight,

the huge laughing cockroaches on his top lip,
the glitter of his boot-rims.

Ringed with a scum of chicken-necked bosses
he toys with the tributes of half-men.

One whistles, another meows, a third snivels.
He pokes out his finger and he alone goes boom.

He forges decrees in a line like horseshoes,
One for the groin, one the forehead, temple, eye.

He rolls the executions on his tongue like berries.
He wishes he could hug them like big friends from home.

My co-worker read it over and sead: "If I am Stalin, for sure I send him to Gulag".

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 07:34 AM

Why does this not surprise me in the slightest

The government just tried (and failed) to discredit inconvenient new evidence in the Russian spy case

I have no idea whether Russia was involved. I suspect, purely going on Putin's record as a megalomaniac, that if he did not actually approve it, he was happy that it built up his image just before the election. The subsequent mismanagement of the whole affair by our government is an absolute disgrace.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 07:55 AM

hey nonny no


https://www.globalresearch.ca/boris-johnson-issues-completely-new-story-on-russian-novichoks/5632684

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:27 AM

Global research = Russian Billionaire
"No" more than "noony", I'd dat
It's about the fifth time I've asked you why the world has fallen fior all this "fake news"
The fact that you have no answer indicates that you don't believe your atrocious holocaust-denying bullshit any more than anybody else does and are just riding it for attention
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:36 AM

The subsequent mismanagement of the whole affair by our government is an absolute disgrace.

Please give an example of the mismanagement you refer to.
It has been referred to the OPCW who have taken samples for independent testing.
131 people possibly exposed to the poison are being monitored.
Salisbury is being decontaminated by the best experts we have.
What would you have done differently?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:38 AM

Fuck off Keith. Keep your shit on one thread instead of trying to contaminate all of them.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:43 AM

I've watched enough spy movies to posit this spin on the story...

Father and daughter used their old network of contacts to steal and smuggle some of the nerve stuff in for Porton Down...
Then unfortunately.. big oops... accidental spillage while waiting in a pub to hand the parcel over....???????????

MI6 - "Oh dear.. what do we do, we've been caught with our trousers down..
I know lets blame Russia and hope no one asks too many awkward questions...????"

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:45 AM

"Oh! What A Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice To Deceive"

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:27 AM

Global research = Russian Billionaire
"No" more than "noony", I'd dat
It's about the fifth time I've asked you why the world has fallen fior all this "fake news"
The fact that you have no answer indicates that you don't believe your atrocious holocaust-denying bullshit any more than anybody else does and are just riding it for attention
Jim Carroll

Cant wait to see Iains reply to this latest piece of gibberish

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it - who did ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 18 - 08:54 AM

""No" more than "noony", I'd dat"
Liverpool back-slang !!
Jim Carroll