BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:33 AM

I also find it strange that those who cherry pick from the report without actually having read it assume that others have done the same. It is the only reason I can thing of why the following passages are never quoted

27.No party is immune to ‘bad apples’, and it would be naïve to assume that tackling antisemitism in the Labour Party would eliminate it from political discourse altogether. Antisemitism is a problem of such gravity that no party can afford to be complacent. It is an issue that should transcend party loyalties and inter-party conflict. (Paragraph 128)

28.Other political parties must not assume that antisemitic political discourse is an issue affecting the Labour Party alone. The Liberal Democrats in particular should pay heed to the need to act swiftly and decisively to deal with antisemitism within their ranks. We were disappointed by the manner in which their Leader, Tim Farron, referred to disciplinary processes rather than explicitly condemning antisemitic remarks made by members of his Party, and we were surprised to learn that Cllr David Ward remains an elected representative of the Liberal Democrats, despite his repeated antisemitic comments. All of the main political parties should examine whether the reforms recommended in this report could be applied to their own processes for training and disciplining their members and activists. Political leaders should also make themselves responsible for taking swift investigatory or disciplinary action when a party member is identified by Twitter as being a perpetrator of abuse. (Paragraph 129)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:27 AM

The argument about the extent of antisemitism in the Labour party can run on and on. Those that wish to deny it is a problem should study the local election results. A Tory drubbing was anticipated by all. It did not happen! To say the ongoing dispute over antisemitism in the Labour
party did not impact voting patterns is strictly rose tinted lefty gymnastics away from reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:20 AM

Dave,
I wonder who it was that was saying there is no antisemitism in any other party but Labour?

That was me and I was right.
It is not a problem in any other mainstream party apart from Labour according to your own quote!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:17 AM

As you quoted Dave, "However, the fact that incidents of antisemitism—particularly online—have made their way into a major political party is a new and deplorable phenomenon, and one which has not recently affected the mainstream right wing of British politics."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:17 AM

I wonder who it was that was saying there is no antisemitism in any other party but Labour?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:16 AM

BTW. Just to put things in perspective this is a summary of the actual gains and losses

Labour +79
Conservative -24
Lib Dem +75
Green +8
UKIP -123
Other -5

It is difficult to tell the actual shift because of the massive loss for UKIP. Assuming the Torys (AKA BlueKIP) picked up most of those then the Tory loss becomes even more significant. Regardless of that, no matter how you spin it, Labour gained 79 seats while the Tories lost 24.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:15 AM

Something that many on here fail to acknowledge.

Because it is too obvious to need acknowledging!

Of course anti-Semitism is rampant on the far-right.
It always was.
But, here we have it in one of the mainstream parties. Labour.
That is shocking.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:55 AM

Kevin, in answer to your point check out the recent Parliamentary review that was undertaken by a cross party group. It was very thorough and, in my opinion, unbiased. In its terms of reference you will find the following -

This report focuses to some extent on the Labour Party, because it has been the main source of recent allegations of antisemitism associated with political parties. It should be emphasised that the majority of antisemitic abuse and crime has historically been, and continues to be, committed by individuals associated with (or motivated by) far-right wing parties and political activity. Although there is little reliable or representative data on contemporary sources of antisemitism, CST figures suggest that around three-quarters of all politically-motivated antisemitic incidents come from far-right sources.23 However, the fact that incidents of antisemitism—particularly online—have made their way into a major political party is a new and deplorable phenomenon, and one which has not recently affected the mainstream right wing of British politics. It is particularly shocking that it should affect a party whose founding principles are based on equality.

Something that many on here fail to acknowledge.

Read the report for yourself though and draw your own conclusions.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 18 - 04:37 AM

What is less clear is whether there is actually any significant antisemitism there, or whether what the problem is that there has been a successful effort by enemies of the Labour Party (including a minority who oppose the move away from New Labour towards democratic socialism), together with the media, to present Labour in that light

Corbyn and Gwynne have said that it is not just a smear campaign by Corbyn's opponents, and Corbyn does not want people caliming that because it is harming the party.
Guardian,
"Following trade union boss Len McCluskey’s claim that some Labour MPs were “polluting” the leader’s efforts to tackle the problem, Mr Gwynne was asked whether anti-Semitism was being used to attack Mr Corbyn.
He replied: “No, and Jeremy has made that very clear that the notion that these are smears against the Labour Party he does not accept that.”
Mr Gwynne added: “It is perfectly acceptable for Labour MPs to call out anti-Semitism in our party and in our movement and it is incumbent on our party and on our movement to act and root it out.”
He said people needed to “acknowledge that there is an issue of anti-Semitism on the left of British politics”.
“It’s not just something that affects the right of British politics – there is an element in the left.
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/national/16191987.Labour_have_not_done_enough_in_tackling_anti_Semitism__Andrew_Gwynne_say

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 08:17 PM

I think you've hit the nail on the head Mac - that is my reading of the situation anyway
To prove there is genuine antisemitism in the Labour Party one has to ask the question, why has a party that was founded largely by emigre Jews fleeing the European pogroms, that took to the streets to oppose Mosley, that led the fight in Spain to oppose the rise of fascism whose whole stance has been anti racist and anti-sectarian - the only parliamentary party in Westminster that can be described as fully multi-racial... suddenly, over the last three to four years taken to hating Jews ?
I think the history of this lies in the history of these attacks
Up to Corbyn's leadership there was not a whiff of an accusation of Jew hating.
Along come Corbyn and the first reaction was a sudden flurry os activity from the old, right wing 'New Labour crowd (brought into being by W.D.F. war-criminal, Tony Blair)
A load of young people moved in to consolidate Corby's leadership - there is no history of antisemitism among Britain's young people, especially the left.
Corbyn announced his support for the Palestinian, several meetings of 'Labour's Friends of Israel' were arranged by the Israeli Government which included TOM WATSON, RUTH SMEETH and voila - labour has shot to the top of the Antisemitism polls
THIS SEEMS TO BE AS NEAR A CONFESSION explaining what's going on
Add to all this the fact that it is now virtually impossible to distinguish the difference between genuine antisemitism and criticism of Israeli terrorism, it is pretty clear to me where these accusations have originated
If not, why has an anti-racist Party, with its roots firmly embedded in the Jewish cause, backed by young people with no record whatever in antisemitism suddenly got a problem   
Maaaaaybe Israel sees an advantage in INVOLVING ITSELF IN BRITISH POLITICS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:43 PM

It is evident that the Labour Party does indeed have "a problem with antisemitism". What is less clear is whether there is actually any significant antisemitism there, or whether what the problem is that there has been a successful effort by enemies of the Labour Party (including a minority who oppose the move away from New Labour towards democratic socialism), together with the media, to present Labour in that light.

I've looked for actual evidence in press coverage, and I haven't been able to see it. The trouble is that denying it's existence is interpreted as the kind of protesting-too-much that serves to confirm a charge - so instead the strategy of "accepting it and dealing with it" has been adopted.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:27 PM

Same piece,
"Today shadow chancellor John McDonnell acknowledged that it had been a problem.
On BBC1's Andrew Marr Show, Mr McDonnell said he would be meeting Barnet councillors this week, adding: "Anti-Semitism certainly had its effect, there's no doubt about it, in Barnet itself.
"I'm hoping that the measures we have put in place now, the Chakrabarti Report implemented in full, Jennie Formby the new general secretary - Jeremy Corbyn said to Jennie 'your first priority is tackling this issue'." "

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 18 - 04:26 PM

Not just Jews, and not enemies of Labour.
The Mirror today,
"Top Labour figures have admitted the anti-Semitism row hurt the party's chances in the local elections.
The party was widely tipped to take Barnet which has the highest proportion of Jewish residents of any borough in Britain but defeated councillors and activists blamed .

Barry Rawlings, Head of Barnet's Labour group, said the party lost because "so many of our neighbours believe we tolerate anti-Semitism".
He told the Guardian: "What happened instead was an election day phenomenon that I never want to experience again. Jewish residents voted in protest against Labour."
ur."
'Labour lost Barnet because Jews that had previously voted for them could no longer do so'
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-labour-figures-admit-anti-12491525

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:10 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:08 PM

Before you make capital of it - sorry about the typos
Just spilled coffee over my new ****** keyboard
G'night folks - The Woman in White eckons
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 18 - 03:06 PM

Paaage not found byut it makes not a bit of difference
The tems "Antisemitism" and "criticism of Israel" are now indistinguishable these accusations are meaningless
The fact that yioor quote ia an accusation made by Chukka Umna
whose visit to Israel coincides perfectly with when these accusations first began rather makes my point, doncha think!!
Umunna is associated with the Labour Friends of Israel; along with Liam Byrne, he made an official visit to Israel in October 2012 as part of the LFI’s UK-Israel Economic Dialogue group.[23][24]
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:51 PM

Almost two-thirds of the British public believe Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party has a problem with racism or religious prejudice, a new poll has revealed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-racism-anti-semitism-religion-jewish-ukip-israel-pales

“The failure of the Labour Party to deal consistently and effectively with antisemitic incidents in recent years risks lending force to allegations that elements of the Labour movement are institutionally antisemitic.” That was one of the principal findings of the House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee in the 2015-2017 parliament."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:34 PM

keith -there are right wing jews and left wing jews and they are bound to disagree. whatever this is a political issue and nothing to do with racism - having a different religion does not mean you are a different race.

in the west of scotland there is a problem with sectarianism - no-one calls this racism. again, it's politics

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:33 PM

So far as I can see almost all the identified instances of anti-semitism have been anonymous posts on the internet - where thee is no way of knowing whether they accurately reflect the views of antisemitic Labour supporters, or fakes by people wishing to beef up accusations of antisemitism.

I think it important to resist labelling as antisemitic strong criticism of many aspects of Israeli policies towards Palestinians and their sympathisers. A distinction gets made between criticism of Israel's behaviour and its legitimacy as a state.

However insofar as critics of Israel may support the right of Palestinians to return to the territory of Israel from which their families were forced to flee in 1948, this would mean a direct challenge to Israel as a confessional Jewish State. Whether this is a realistic option or not, I cannot see is as truly constituting an antisemitic viewpoint. It is consistent with the Balfour Declaration's call for Palestine to be a Jewish Homeland shared with the existing population.

Nor is support for BDS, or an acceptance of the Palestian term "Naqba" in relation to the events of 1948 antisemitic. While the use of Zionist in this context may be inadvisable, I cannot see that in itself as antisemitic.

The fact that there are considerable efforts to present those things as antisemitic has very much muddied the waters.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 18 - 02:15 PM

Pete, the accusations come from within Labour.
I posted this from BBC earlier,
"Adam Langleben, one of the Labour councillors who lost their seat in Barnet, said allegations of anti-Semitism was the key reason for the party's losses in London.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I spent countless hours knocking on countless doors speaking to Jewish voters who are Labour voters or were Labour voters - people who genuinely believe in the same values as the Labour Party, who agreed with our local manifesto for Barnet.
"But they could not vote for a Labour Party that they see as hostile or dangerous to the Jewish community.
"And the Labour Party is seen by far too many people in the Jewish community as being racist right now." "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44001786

how do you feel about your fellow british citizens being detained, bullied and deported and treated abominally for years - aren't you ashamed?

Yes, it was shameful, but can not say that any one party was to blame or that any party intended it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 May 18 - 01:49 PM

again.....there is a long tradition of jewish socialism from karl marx onwards. there are, of course, many right wing jews too. the differences are currently between these groups and many other tory types who like to use this as a stick to beat labour with. whatever, it is a political difference and nothing to do with racism. i've been in the left all my adult life and never heard any anti-jewish shit. there is almost blanket condemnation of the israeli government and support for the palestinian people - but these are entirely valid political opinions.
i feel stupid for rising to the bait again to defend the left when this tactic is so transparently used to deflect attention from the crimes and inadequacies of the current government. if you are minded to support them how do you feel about your fellow british citizens being detained, bullied and deported and treated abominally for years - aren't you ashamed?
and labour weren't beat in the recent polls-we made some gains but not as many as we had hoped. to expect them to have done better would be to accept that they should have done so as theresa may etc are so completely useless. and demonstrably racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 18 - 01:17 PM

recent events have made it quite clear that the tory party is institutionally racist and has been for a long time.

I do not accept that, but you can not deny that racism in the Labour Party caused Jewish voters to abandon them. It cost them Barnet.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 18 - 12:34 PM

"just unpleasant, narrow minded and vindictive" must be a bit like labour party supporters that either cannot manage or do not care to have their party deal with it's inherent racism.. This is the probable reason the party took a beating in the recent polls.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:36 AM

recent events have made it quite clear that the tory party is institutionally racist and has been for a long time. i thought they had been forced to go more right wing and divisive to ensure the support of the extremists in ukip but they probably didn't need any help to get there. it's weird and very depressing that so many people in our countries can't see these people for what they are. or maybe they do understand and are quite happy to vote for incompetent wreckers and more cruelty to groups they do not approve of or even pretend to help. maybe not 'stupid or easily led' - just unpleasant, narrow minded and vindictive

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:10 AM

He attended at times. He was a representative of UK and even if he failed to attend, he was preventing the place being taken by an EU sycophant. As such he was serving a purpose. But when he did attend he was routinely reviled, so I quite understand his choosing his times to attend.
As to what he 'earned', the EU was paying all the EMP irrespective. I don't believe he was just doing it to play the system, but even if he was then that could be blamed on the laxity of the EU's own rules. At least he knew there was a chance of the payments being audited, admittedly the chance was 'slim to none'.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:06 AM

Depends, Nigel. As someone with an Irish mother I have the opportunity to remain or leave EU citizenship. I know you will say that is not renouncing it, but it is logically equivalent in that the decision to have or not have citizenship is entirely mine.

All the forms and paperwork is on my desk. I just need a suitable person to witness and authenticate signatures..

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 18 - 10:04 AM

You really believe he has earned anything as an MEP, Nigel? Have you seen his attendance record?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 May 18 - 09:57 AM

I wouldn't call Farage a nutter. He is calculating and divisive. He chooses his language carefully so that he find accord with the worst prejudices in society, while making it difficult to prove that anything he says is directly racist.
So you accept that his comments cannot be shown to be racist, but then go on to comment on the 'bile' he spouts?

What I do know is that he will be riding the gravy train long after we(as individuals) get bugger-all benefit from being European Citizen.
He has been campaigning to get us out of the EU, and so bring to an end his tenure as an EMP. So ending his income (apart from pension already earned) hardly the actions of someone who wishes to continue on the gravy train which is the EU.

. . .being European Citizen, Something I will never renounce.
I don't know what your current nationality is, but you may not get the option/opportunity to retain/renounce European Citizenship, so it would not be a matter of 'renouncing' it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 10:35 AM

I wouldn't call Farage a nutter. He is calculating and divisive. He chooses his language carefully so that he find accord with the worst prejudices in society, while making it difficult to prove that anything he says is directly racist. That makes/made him far more dangerous than out and out open racists like Griffin, Webster, Robinson and their ilk. It may even be debatable whether he believes in any of the bile he spouts. What I do know is that he will be riding the gravy train long after we(as individuals) get bugger-all benefit from being European Citizen. Something I will never renounce.

Oh, and Bongo, shouldn't you be more concerned that people who live in new housing builds may have to live next or close to undesirables like you?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 09:16 AM

Upshot - Since my post I have been invited as a guest to the Mayor Making ceremony and dinner. Need to dress up 'posh' though (suit and tie.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:49 AM

"So that was a long day and night for me!"
But a worthwhile one from the sound of it
Should have sent out 'wish you were here' cards and we might have joined you in a celebratory pint
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 18 - 08:42 AM

I was a counting agent for the first time on Thursday night, so I was on my feet for most of the time 3:30 Thursday AM to about 4:30 Friday AM so that was a long night, and still not had a drink to celebrate an increase of seats from 53 to 57 out of 69 seats, including 3 from Tory strongholds for the first time. So that was a long day and night for me!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 08:55 PM

That could well be true, Jim. I hope you are, in both cases.

I suppose that makes me a Little Englander. Actually that'd be getting back to the original use of that term, round the end of the 19th century, when Little Englanders was the term used by and about people opposed to the extension of the British Empire, especially in the context of the Boer War. I'd like to see it reclaimed for people who favour the winding up of the United Kingdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 07:35 PM

I think you might be right Mac, but there is every reason to believe that, should Scotland vote again the result would be very different
Brexit has had a radical effect on Six-County politics and brought a United Ireland within a hair's breadth
"It's an ill wind...." as they say
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:59 PM

Ironically I suspect a deciding factor for many may have been that they thought sticking with England was a way of escaping the risk an independent Scotland might not be able to join the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 May 18 - 06:25 PM

i can't really understand why Scotland didn't leave the UK. i think a lot of socialists would have moved there.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 03:06 PM

I'd hate to thing of the effort Keith puts into fascist nutters he does support if this is the amount of work he's prepared to put into fascist nutters he doesn't
The mind boggles
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:54 PM

I think it's a mistake to use "fascist" loosely. Having far right beliefs, and hostility to immigration doesn’t really equate to fascist ideology, it's essentially mainstream Toryism.

And Farage is far too crafty and manipulative a politician for "nutter" to really fit. If he'd been a nutter he'd have been a lot less dangerous than he has been. It very much fitted into his game plan to be seen as a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:50 PM

I'm pretty sure the 1930s German equivalent of the BBC gave a certain chap with a funny moustache airtime. I suppose he must have been a good bloke then...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 01:20 PM

You want me to be fair to a fascist nutter

By no means Jim.
I just want to be told how you know he is one so I can join in the abuse.
What did he do, and why do respectable organisations like the BBC give him airtime?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 12:32 PM

" but if you are going to criticise them make it rational, not just name calling. "
You want me to be fair to a fascist nutter
Your request has been noted and will be dealt with fully when the occasion arises
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:45 AM

Scotland could have left.
They were asked and said no thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:37 AM

[Corbyn]
Its the same with this anti semitism stuff. The point is that within living memory he has cosied up to people who declared their opposition to the existence of Israel.

I oppose the existence of Israel and I haven't noticed that UKIP catamite cosying up to me.

I also oppose the existence of the UK. So do a great majority of all the people elected ti any level of public office in Scotland. Which doesn't make us anti-English, it just makes us anti- the thieving, lying, selfish, bigoted, vicious cunts the English keep electing and foisting on us as gauleiters.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:01 AM

Before you make accusations, I do not support or defend UKIP, but if you are going to criticise them make it rational, not just name calling.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:01 AM

Sorry Keith
Just wanted to remind myself how much of a "not supporter" of Ukip you were
Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 11:00 AM

Yes Jim. That poster was a news photo of large numbers of young men crossing an EU border to illustrate the EU migrant crisis.
That was a key issue in their manifesto.

How was it racist or fascist?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 10:47 AM

DID SOMEONE ASK A QUESTION?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 18 - 10:44 AM

The joke is that was written a year before the swivel eyed loons won the EU election.
Until then every party refused to promise a referendum, but as a result of SEL's success they all suddenly did!

How does that make Farage a racist nutter though Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:56 AM

How to spot a swivel-eyed loon

For a laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone planning a long UK night tonight?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 18 - 09:54 AM

Nice to see Farage's fascist nuttiness was reflected in the vote for what remains of his party, which appears to have gone the way if its counterparts, the NF and the BNP
Never mind - as with number 11 buses - there'll be another one along in a minute
Jim Carroll