BS: Now it’s white tail deer

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 10:52 AM

Much as I hate, loathe, and detest guns, I'm with 'dude here. He hunts for food. The animals he hunts live natural lives. He doesn't take trophies. He respects his prey. He shares it with others.

I regard that as considerably more humane and civilised than the way the rest of us accept meat from animals 'grown' in inhumane conditions, denied a natural life, fed on crap, pumped full of medication, and finally taken to a slaughterhouse to wait terrified in pens, within the sound and smell of the death of their mates.

And 'dude is right - we don't 'get' his culture. Why would we, when our culture is so different?

You're dead right about the trophy and 'sport' hunters, but I think 'dude should be cut some slack.

And yes, I'm a carnivore.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:21 AM

I eat a juicy ribeye steak. Even if the beast I'm partially consuming has been reared to the highest welfare standards, it's been torn away from its mother too early, a cruelty to them both, and has never known the natural life of an instinctive herd animal. It has been confined to an area convenient for the farmer, fenced in. It's quite likely that it's been pumped with antibiotics once or twice and been fed at least in part on artificial feed of a type that it would never eat in the wild, to make it grow faster. It's also likely that the land it's been reared on (no doubt "improved" by the addition of artificial nitrogen) could have produced far more food had it been put down to crops. At the end of its life it has been shuttled for miles in a dark lorry, quite likely along with a lot of other terrified animals, to a slaughterhouse in which it will smell the blood and hear the cries of other doomed beasts before its demise.   

Dan eats a venison steak from his moose. That beast roamed wild and free, eating natural food, enjoying life in its herd, in hills and forests and mountains that can't be used, thank goodness, for any other food production. It has never been confined or treated unnaturally in any way. One minute it's living its gloriously-free life, grazing on wild grasses in tbe sunshine, the next minute it's in heaven. I think that Dan has the ethical upper hand, way above mine.

The ethics of hunting are very simple. You don't take animals that are breeding or rearing young. I'm certain there are rules about all that. You kill them skilfully and instantly. You take only what YOU need. You don't kill animals that are endangered. You never kill just for fun. The only things you ever shoot that you won't eat should be clay pigeons. I've never held a gun of any kind in my hands in my life. But go, Dan, and keep on telling us.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: olddude
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:30 AM

Thank you my brothers, you understand. On the white tail front my Amish friends asked me to get one this year. His wife had a new baby boy last week, they named him Daniel. I love being out there and if i can feed them great if i can’t then i was still trying. At no time in my life have i enjoyed taking an animal. I have enjoyed very much the meat but respect for the animal is very important. You can never take a trophy. My dad would never allow horns on the barn. Many people do but it’s not the way of my family

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:37 AM

Well spoken Steve. Put far more eloquently than I could!

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 11:48 AM

Joe, don't forget the verse that lists among the singer's possessions:

Got me a wife, my wife pleased me...

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 12:39 PM

I wasn't trying to improve on you, John. In spite of the timings we actually cross-posted! I'm a bit slow, you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 12:57 PM

SAYS IT ALL
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 01:38 PM

So reintroduce predators. A few wild cougar in the DC suburbs or wolves in Britain, problem solved. Even a few coyotes can help with rabbit overpopulation. Bear were also native to all of the US and Europe. AND all of these predators are edible (as is humanity)! Wild boar are spreading across the US and I'm certain we'd be able to send some back to Europe.

What? No takers?

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 01:41 PM

What "wilderness adventures" are you referring to Olddude. I cannot recall one, not single one.

What I do recall is your seeming enjoyment of killing animals.

Not once to my knowledge have you told us about trekking through woods or out across the plains etc.

I do recall you telling us you had more meat than you could cope with yourself and you giving it to other people (some of whom already had a freezer full)

I do not have a problem per, se with you shooting animals, we all have to eat and I am a meat eater, I do have a problem with you boasting about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:30 PM

"So reintroduce predators"
Why when you can hunt them to death for pleasure
Beasts bombing the shit out of countries you don't agree with, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: olddude
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:30 PM

Rag guess you haven’t read then or just selective. I suggest you ignore my threads since they upset you. Funny i didn’t know you were forced to read hunting threads and post unwelcome comments to the op. Must be a cultural thing to jump into threads you have no knowledge of to insult others..gets your rocks off?

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: olddude
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:37 PM

And as he enjoys his kidney pie or lamb. With indignant superiority . Like I said at least I do the work for the meat and not let a slaughterhouse

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:40 PM

You carry on boasting olddude.

It must feel really good to have a high powered rifle in your hand a be able to kill an animal at several hundred feet without any danger to yourself.

As I said I am a meat eater, I don't have a problem with you killing animals for food but you seem to be going beyond that.

I shall leave this thread now. Trust you will sleep easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: olddude
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:43 PM

Yup and you are a hippocrite. A cow has no chance against a sludge hammer in a pen. Think hunting is easy, oh yes fogot you never did it. Go to the bush once and see. Oh you go to a butcher shop forgot

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: olddude
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:45 PM

Joe delete this fucking thread i done talking with assholes. Beat up on religion and politics but I don’t need it or mudcat. Hunting and outdoor friends you have my mail

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: olddude
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:46 PM

Put it in terms you will get rags stay the fuck off my threads

Subject: RE: BS: Now it's white tail deer
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 02:59 PM

Britholes gotta hijack/troll stuff they don't understand.

Howsabout the debate ends here.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 03:09 PM

OK Olddude,

I will now tell you I used to work in a butchers shop, I have seen what goes on in a abbattoir, I have shot rabbits and necked chicken, gutted grouse, hares, pheasant, quail, lambs, goats and all manner of other animals. I worked as a chef for eleven years.

I just don't "get my rocks off" by killing things.

Your problem not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 04:06 PM

And I don't think Dan will mind me mentioning that he is grieving at the moment (see the goodbye to my big dog thread) so his responses may be clouded by emotion.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 05:09 PM

Where does the white tail come in?

They make ox tail soup.

Can't be much meat on a deers trotter.

Its funny how in some countries, cows are sacred and in others pig are unclean.

And in our country (the UK) we so rarely see wild deer that e get transported by their loveliness, and forget they are a flight animal and running from the hunter is their natural state - and really is an integral of what makes them so sleek and beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 07:14 PM

Raggytash, you've made your point. Now move along.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 07:28 PM

I love my airguns.

I was never allowed one as a kid - now I'm making up for it. I love BSA break barrels. But I don't kill things - I just shoot at cans. I don't think I'd like to kill anything.

I quite like life, what's left of it - it hasn't always been nice.

If hunting does it for you - why not. If you're breaking any rules , some bastard is always there with the verse and chapter.

Old Dude - just accept it. Some people don't like the idea of hunting. Whatever you do in life someone won't like it. Some people hate my version of folk music. Gives me pleasure though - even if it causes distress to the more fastidious. So fuck 'em.

Its only at your funeral the room is full of assholes saying how wonderful you were. Enjoy your pleasures, and give not a wee turd.

Subject: RE: BS: Now it’s white tail deer
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 08:24 PM

My Last Deer Hunt
by Rapparee, Age 7

After a night spent in friend Niles' new machine shop, we awakened around 5 a.m. and put the coffee on the wood stove and set breakfast cooking. Nile showed up about 5:45 and brother Ted about 6. It was a nice, autumn day in Illinois: cool enough for frost on the cornstalks and promising to be clear and sunny. We ate breakfast, did our morning duties, all the while discussing the best sites for "setting up" for deer. I guess it was long about 10 a.m. when one of the kids (20+) stuck his head in and said, "Joe's shot a deer." My brother Tony replied, "Well, you know what to do with it." Ralph shot a deer about an hour later, same routine. After field dressing the deer would be taken home, butchered, wrapped, and frozen -- the entrails were left for the coyotes and other scavengers. Two deer, that was all that day. We must have drunk two or three gallons of coffee, though. Some of Niles' calves got loose right after lunch, so we chased them back into the pasture and repaired the electric fence. The shotguns were unloaded, checked by someone else, cased, and stowed away to await cleaning. The muzzleloaders were emptied, checked, and stowed. The six kids and the four old fogies agreed it had been a good hunt -- meat for the freezer, some for the food bank, and off we went to brag and lie about it.

As time has gone on, that hunt seems to have produced at least 20 deer, all of them bucks with antlers that rivaled an old-growth forest. It was conducted in a blizzard with the wind at 70+ miles per hour. Each shot, instead of being at no more than the 25 yards or so you'd expect with that sort of weaponry done at a mile or more. Oh, yes -- some 1500 head of cattle got loose and we rebuilt three miles of barbed wire fence. I'm not saying that hunters spread the truth sometimes, but....

Subject: Pennsyltucky PY Sacred, Primal System/Food Chain
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 18 - 10:02 PM

Dont get 'hunting'? It's about so much more than hunting.

When we had a house fire one December, twice we awoke to find freshly field-dressed deer left anonymously by our back door. Not butchered-- they trusted us to know how. We did butcher one, and itwas plenty. The other we dropped off to another pastor on our road who was temporarily without a church, and with a houseful of hungry kids. Each deer had been dropped with one clean kill shot. Culling them strengthened the herd.

We learned quickly how to contribute to the local giving system. Excess Txgiving turkeys thst accumulated at church (more than needy families on 'the list' needed) were mysteriously left in neighbors' kitchen sinks. My full pantry was raided more than once, for teenagers feeding younger siblings in families in various crises. Delivering those boxes was... there are no words.... the least we could do... and EXACTLY as much help as they could accept. A precise place for each, in a sacred, primal system.

One elderly parishioner who'd hunted since boyhood gave his priest, annually, a package of homemade sausage. Another gave us fish, from that final time he was able to fish. I sang him to sleep in the ICU during his final illness, and his wife to her columbarium niche a few years later.

For years, our farmer landlord Bruce followed the County custom of planting the 2 roadside rows of field corn in their families' choice variety of sweet corn,. The custom is that this bounty is freely available to anyone who stops to pick an evening's boil. My son grew up to milk his cows and-- one bitterly cold winter evening-- overruled his worried ma who urgently wanted him to stay home. "NO! You're SICK!" I screamed. "MOM." he quietly replied. "Bruce is a lot sicker than I am, and I'm going to GO!" That teenager became a grown man that night. In our turn, Bruce's teens came to do odd jobs for us (and learn how to hold a job).

Once you're adopted into this system, only an asshole doesn't see the raw, human beauty of it. Only a privileged idiot doesn't realize it's all about the food chain and cycle of life-- of which humans are a very small, humble, and dependent part.

Dan, you know that life. God Bless you in that life!

~S~