BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants

Subject: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 06:56 AM

Vape, and breed generations of morons.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142422.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 09:03 AM

Very interesting Jack - I wasn't aware that epigenetic effects are caused by nicotine.

I've often wondered why there are so very many ADHD children nowadays. It would seem that a mother smoking can affect her baby's mental development, but this new research demonstrating that sperm can be affected (and down the generations into the bargain!) is astonishing.

I wonder if any other drugs (cocaine, amphetamines, heroin, ecstasy etc) produce similar impairment of offspring?

I'm so glad I have never smoked and neither did my parents.
And I hate passing people puffing away at the door of shops and supermarkets. Even 'vaping' stinks, especially if one doesn't smoke. My sense of smell is very acute!

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 09:16 AM

Funnily enough I always loved the smell of pipe tobacco. Something to do with my Grandad I think. I find a lot of the vaping products smell a lot like some pipe tobaccos. But I am glad i do not smoke any more and have never vaped. If I was ever tempted it would be by a vape kit in the shape of a Sherlock Holmes pipe :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 10:16 AM

In our last village we had an absolutely lovely couple next door. The wife smoked like a chimney but we were great friends and often went out together shopping and to the gym etc. She came round for coffee and after she'd left, our house stank. The sofa stank. I could smell her everywhere. Round hers, the air was fetid with cigarette smoke.

But strangely, she suddenly stopped smoking. I mean, just stopped. She didn't use patches (I don't think they existed then) and for years afterwards she never touched tobacco, much to my relief.

She was the most houseproud, clean woman I've ever known. She constantly cleaned and polished her bungalow to a very high standard.
One day, she asked me to be truthful and tell her if her house had smelt of cigarettes when she used to smoke. I smiled and said, "Not half!"
She admitted that her sense of smell had now returned, and she'd had to send every item of clothing she owned to the dry cleaners to get rid of the stench. And wash all her curtains. And shampoo her carpets.
The place was then lovely and fresh, and I could breathe in her company.

She died some years ago. I hope God has let her wash His curtains and polish heaven. She'd do an excellent job, and enjoy it too!

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 11:43 AM

My brother recently brought a portable sewing table and the cabinetted Singer sewing machine from my mother's home. It has been in storage for over 20 years and when we unloaded it from his pickup I could smell the stale smoke patina on the table and case. It's out in the garage and I'll take out a cleaning solution and go over every square inch of the table and case. I'll have to carefully clean the machine, but until that smoke stench is removed it's not going into the house (or into a vehicle - it was brought here for delivery to my daughter). Mom lit a cigarette first thing in the morning and kept one going all day long until she went to bed. Each of us escaped the house as soon as we could and I never spent the night there once I'd moved out. Not until she moved after a health crisis and finally being forced to quit cold turkey did I take my children to spend time and stay at her new house during visits to the region.

My father didn't smoke and was in the house with second-hand smoke for 19 years; it doesn't seem to have affected the intelligence of any of the children. That said, I see the line Exposure of mothers to nicotine and other components of cigarette smoke is recognized as a significant risk factor for behavioral disorders, - there is a behavior/mental health disorder in a sib that might serve to validate that statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 12:35 PM

My father smoked, starting in his teens & all through adulthood. Soldiers on active service during WW2, were routinely given free cigarettes. I can remember my father showing me a tin of army issue 'fags'. As a newborn, I slept in a cot in my parent's bedroom. My father always smoked a cigarette before turning out the light. According to my mother, she saw him on many occasions, rocking me in his arms with a cigarette poking out of the corner of his mouth. Her main concern was that the ever-extending ash might fall on me.
         Thank you, Jack, for posting the link. The epigenetic effect could hold many answers to some of my life-long health problems.
                                                Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 02:19 PM

My father smoked a pipe, but not very much. My mother smoked about one cigarette a week.

Working in a second-hand bookshop I get to see some horrors. We had a house clearance not long ago of books that had belonged to a very well known writer of really sweet books for young children. The processing room stank like an ashtray the whole time we had them on the premises. There were whole shelves of books with spines tanned brown, books with cigarette burns on inside pages, and boobytrap books that looked fine from the outside but hit you in the face with tobacco pong the moment you opened them. Hardly any of the clearance was saleable.

That said, I'd rather deal with tobacco pong than vape fumes any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 02:31 PM

When I was about 15, my 18 year old hippy godsister was found dead from an overdose..

For whatever reason best known to her local politician/businessman father,
I was tasked to sell her LP collection to my school mates.

The discs were manky and scratched,
and the LP sleeves stained and pock marked with small burns from obvious joint rolling...

Can't remember what they stank like.. probaly insense and patchouli...

I think I kept a Hawkwind LP...

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 03:23 PM

That's very sad pfr. At fifteen, you probably found that hard to deal with.
I often buy secondhand books from Amazon. I don't mind if they're a bit dog-eared or tatty, but I hate it if they smell of cigarette smoke.

I've helped with charity jumble sales many times over the years, and a friend gave me a tip. She used to store donated items with a bar of strongly-scented soap in the box. It did seem to overpower the smell a little.

It's strange how much I dislike smoke now. It wasn't always so.
When I was about four or five I was taken up to North Shields (Northumberland) to visit my grandparents. Grandpa smoked about eighty a day (roll-up Woodbines) and frequently took me to his 'local' where dozens of men wearing the traditional cloth caps smoked themselves silly in the bar, downing Newcastle Brown ale.

I was sat on the counter and asked to sing 'Blaydon Races', which I was very happy to do, much to the delight of all those Geordie men, who roared out the chorus. (I did my best to sing in a 'Geordie' and not a 'West London' accent My father had taught me the song.)

The air was a thick fog of tobacco smoke, but I must admit I loved it.
The combined smell of smoke, beer and wet dogs was captivating to a tiny little girl.
It's a shame I no longer like it!

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 04:11 PM

My brother has just been told that his heart is 45% necrotic, whatever that may mean exactly. I hate cigarettes.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 04:51 PM

It would seem that a mother smoking can affect her baby's mental development, - long been known. And alcohol. I was told of a poor lady who was described as having the Pixie effect, her mother drank a lot right through the pregnancy.
Near starvation conditions causes smaller children born, and the effect carries through to the grandchildren etc decreasing exponentially with the generations. Epigenetics in action.
Evolution has given homo sapiens the mechanisms to cope somewhat with bleak conditions. (other mammals are available)

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 11:44 AM

The number of single generation 'mutations' caused by encoded inherited epigenetic effects are unknown. There could be millions of triggers and responses.

Imagine all the positive 'mutations' in a developing life improving not just survivability but amazing intelligence and powers.
Then imagine the opposite. Most of us are Mr.In Betweens.

Yes I know I am misusing the word mutations.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 12:04 PM

We may be seeing a similar effect in non-human populations. Neo-nicotinoid insecticides seem to be having a far worse effect on non-target organisms than anyone expected. Perhaps some of this is epigenetic. For a eusocial creature like the honeybee, messing up the queen's genes could affect millions of descendants within a year or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 02:49 PM

hi

My parents both smoked heavily as did most of the adults in our neighbourhood. We just got on with things and never thought about the effect of smoking.

I have never smoked - not even one.

Some years ago I was found to have cancer of the throat. The doctors at that time just did not believe me and said it was caused by smoking. Some doctors said that it could have been caused by secondary smoking.
At that time I had been playing in several groups and for many years in smoky pubs and clubs. So we believed this to be the cause.

Now it seems that my parents affected ( or should that be infected me? )
I have had other brushes with Cancer and have survived them all.

Today Is my birthday and my best present was a phone call from my GP to tell me that I was no longer a risk for Diabetes 2 and that my bloods are perfect. Ironically I received a phone call from the " Healthier Group "offering me a place on their next course.!!! My GP said I need not attend as I have found myself a life-style that works for me. I will be monitored by my Health centre quarterly.

It made my birthday even better and as I type this I have my Bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape by my side which will go down very nicely.

Cheers MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Oct 18 - 05:33 PM

Well they seem to have passed on some good luck genes too. Congratulations.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 07:16 AM

hi Jack

Thanks for the kind comment. Yes I do consider myself lucky. Let's hope I can pass some good luck to my children. Mind you they are all fit and well and doing well in life.

As an I am now well int my Eighties I think I am qualified to say that the most precious thing in life is Good Health.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 11:01 AM

Back in the late 1980s to mid 1990s
one of my mates was a guitarist in a London pub rock covers band...

He suddenly developed and died from throat cancer in his early 30s.

As far as we all knew he wasn't a smoker,
and was regularly the butt of jokes by his debauched chain smoking band mates,
because he lead such an unusually clean cut healthy lifestyle...

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Oct 18 - 12:00 PM

Persistent reflux can cause cancer of the oesophagus. The acid burns the cells (Barrett's Oesophagus) which can lead to malignancy.

I would imagine your mate pfr had endured passive smoking and had a high risk of cancer genetically. Very, very sad to lose his life in his early thirties.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 07:19 AM

We didn't know about secondhand smoking when we were young…

I would guess that the pandemic of ADHD comes not from smoking but from kids not playing outdoors, cycling to school, climbing trees, etc - all that extra energy just rioting around their little bodies and minds.

The one thing that worries me about the push to legalise cannabis is that it may get a lot more people smoking dope - and I have no doubt whatsoever that dope smoke is just as dangerous as tobacco smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 12:11 PM

My sister-in-law taught mental health in a nursing school. She says that marijuana breaks chromosomes, and the government just doesn't want to face it. The studies which show it have been done in Europe and are little publicized.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 12:29 PM

That particular scare story is decades old, unsubstantiated and not much more than urban legend.

Marijuana smoke does contain mutagenic/carcinogenic substances - but you don't need to smoke as much to get an effect as with tobacco, so the risk is less. But the study I linked to is not about carcinogenic tars, it's about nicotine. That particular risk is not shared with marijuana, and it's just as severe for vaping, gum or patches.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Oct 18 - 12:49 PM

My opinion is legalise cannabis for adults, but only in a form that can be eaten, or as a drink...

That'd be a finacial boon for the industries involved.. and the tax man...

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: CupOfTea
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 09:55 AM

The "gift" from my nicotine addicted elders (dad+2 other adults) was a succeptibility to bronchitis at first. I had it for a year, untreated, because they assumed my horrid coughing was me "just being dramatic because she doesn't like our smoking." Permanent bronchial damage, which has likely led to the increasingly severe asthma I'm dealing with now.

One does wonder if the tendency toward addiction shown by smokers is enough, itself, to cause heritable problems. I don't smoke, don't drink much, but addicted to food for sure.

Joanne, still coughing in Cleveland

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 10:51 AM

My parents both smoked. I've never had pneumonia or bronchitis. I smoked a little for a few years, until I got myself addicted in college. I had to work at it, though. The times I tried to quit later in life, I found it remarkably easy, but it was also remarkably easy to slip back into it. I quit over 13 years ago, and don't even miss it.

I do believe there are people who are genetically more prone to addiction than others. I think I just lucked out.

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: CupOfTea
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 10:30 PM

Lovely that you lucked out, Jeri! Makes singing a much more reliable skill without all the coughing. An addictive personality sure seems to be a heritable trait. (Would have been nice if I'd inherited the red hair and slim build instead)
Hope you keep yer luck good with no smoke.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: BS: Nicotine junkie dads & their descendants
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 04:08 AM

From my conversations with prisoners in various HMP establishments, one prepares a joint by using a Rizla cigarette paper, putting ordinary tobacco along its length, then 'skinning up', which involves scraping a lump of cannabis resin onto the tobacco. One then rolls up the cigarette, twists the end and it's ready to smoke.

Thus, there's nicotine from the tobacco in with the cannabis, and the smoke has the same effect on the lungs as ordinary cigarettes.

I'm not sure though how one uses a 'bong'. Does one put ordinary tobacco in with the 'skunk' or is it a different system?

I hasten to add that I deplore drug-taking and have seen the terrible effects of addiction, illegal activities such as burglary and theft, and of course incarceration in gaol. Drugs in HM prisons are absolutely rife.