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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Iains 06 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 19 - 04:27 AM
Backwoodsman 05 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 05 Mar 19 - 02:24 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Mar 19 - 01:56 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM
David Carter (UK) 05 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Mar 19 - 11:09 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM
Raggytash 05 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM
Raggytash 05 Mar 19 - 08:03 AM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Mar 19 - 01:30 PM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Mar 19 - 01:25 PM
Donuel 04 Mar 19 - 12:56 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM
DMcG 04 Mar 19 - 09:57 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 19 - 05:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Mar 19 - 03:10 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 19 - 02:32 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 19 - 08:23 PM
Stanron 03 Mar 19 - 08:08 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 19 - 07:56 PM
Stanron 03 Mar 19 - 07:34 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 19 - 07:00 PM
Stanron 03 Mar 19 - 06:11 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 05:46 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 05:23 PM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 03:52 PM
Backwoodsman 03 Mar 19 - 03:39 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 10:06 AM
SPB-Cooperator 03 Mar 19 - 09:46 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM
Raggytash 03 Mar 19 - 09:02 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 09:01 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 08:33 AM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 08:12 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 07:29 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM
DMcG 03 Mar 19 - 04:08 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 04:03 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 03:15 AM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 01:19 AM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 01:17 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 19 - 08:33 PM
bobad 02 Mar 19 - 06:54 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM

The FDA allows up to 4% of a can of cherries to have maggots, 5% if they are brined or Maraschino. Up to one maggot or five fly eggs per 250ml of canned fruit juice is also allowed under American food regulations.
Tomato juice is good, you can have up to five fly eggs and one maggot per 100g of tomato juice. Fifteen fly eggs and one maggot per 100g is allowed for tomato paste and other pizza sauces. Mushrooms are really sexy, mushrooms you can have twenty maggots of any size per 100g of drained mushrooms or per 15g of dried mushrooms. That's twenty maggots of any size.
It means thatAmericans at the moment are on average are likely to ingest between one and two pounds of flies, maggots and mites each year without knowing it.

"Now the FDA say that's safe and they're probably right and the future of protein consumption is probably going to involve more and more insects

The eggs, larvae, pupae, and adults of certain insects have been eaten by humans from prehistoric times to the present day. Around 3,000 ethnic groups practice entomophagy. Human insect-eating is common to cultures in most parts of the world, including Central and South America, Africa, Asia, Australia, and New Zealand. Eighty percent of the world's nations eat insects of 1,000 to 2,000 species. In some societies entomophagy is uncommon or taboo. Today, insect eating is uncommon in North America and Europe, but insects remain a popular food elsewhere, and some companies are trying to introduce insects as food into Western diets. FAO has registered some 1,900 edible insect species and estimates that there were, in 2005, some two billion insect consumers worldwide. They suggest eating insects as a possible solution to environmental degradation caused by livestock production.


Bush Tucker Man


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 04:27 AM

A piece in today's Guardian entitled "Food fight: doubts grow over post-Brexit standards" not only highlights in some detail the poor agricultural practices in the US which are bound to cause conflict in negotiations for any trade deal but also must have us doubting whether we can reach any sort of deal with the US at all (even Toryboy George Eustice has those doubts). If you think it's just about the talismanic chlorinated chicken spat, read the piece. That particular example of fowl play is just the tip of the iceberg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM

Precisely, Bonnie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 02:24 PM

Yeah. Back to the stone age.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:56 PM

Yebbut, yebbut, yebbut..."Weer taking are cuntry back".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM

THEY'LL PROBABLY MINIMISE IT'S IMPORTANCE
jIM


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM

So I wonder how the brexiteers will spin the loss of a British icon such as the mini? Thats taking out country back, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 11:09 AM

If police outside of UK try to fine motorists for not having an IDP, just need to say that they must send the penalty notice for the personal attention of May, and UK tax payers or the Conservative party, or Department of Transport employees will pay it. No further discussion required.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM

Interesting discussion of the future validity of driving licenses held by British citizens domiciled here

"Has anyone got any GOOD news about Brexit?"
APPARENTLY NOT
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/05/bmw-mini-cowley-no-deal-brexit-toyota


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Mar 19 - 08:03 AM

More gloomy reports about a no deal Brexit this time from BMW who suggest that jobs would be at risk in their Cowley plant if no deal is reached over Brexit. This is on top of a similar warning from Toyota.

Has anyone got any GOOD news about Brexit?





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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 01:30 PM

OK Donuel, if we have a trial 'Brexit' then let that include consular officiels at every point of entry in the EU (at no cost to the tax payer) to intervene in case a fascist border-official tries to prevent freedom of movement for UK nationals. Lets have a commitment whereby every time a UK national is denied a single benefit of EU membership, that this is automatically escalated into a full diplomatic incident.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 01:25 PM

Backwoodsman, If May chooses to hand back her library ticket that is her choice. I choose not to give mine back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 12:56 PM

Dave and the backwoodsman seem to admit the ridiculous eventuality of what's coming and the super rich may welcome it OR NOT depending on the version of reality they will see.. So why not let them see what is coming with a 'virtual' or a 'soft opening' of Brexit RIGHT NOW
Never mind the Schwartzfield equation reasoning for this but its time to throw the fear of god at those who reside in the black hole of untold wealth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM

Arrff, arrff, arrff...something to give us a smile as the BrexShit catastrophe continues to roll on and on.

Hilarious - or it would be if Grayling wasn't such an utter twunt, but apparently an 'Untouchable' as far as The Praying Mantis is concerned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 09:57 AM

I am not wholly swayed by the idea Brexit is largely driven by the elite protecting their financial interests. However when bills are pulled apparently because of money laundering amendments it raises questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 05:40 AM

And with regard to Stanron's comment about my 'Fæcal expletives', it's my opinion that Brexit really is absolute shit, and everyone, including the Muppets who voted for it, will end up eating it. Therefore I reserve the right to continue to draw everyone's attention to that, and 'Brexshit' it will remain in anything and everything I post on the subject.

If anyone doesn't like it, I really don't give a rat's arse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 03:10 AM

The weird thing, BWM, is that the people who are spouting the Brexit mantra are happy to believe the far right of the Tory party and UKIP, would like to to trade with Trump and countries far more totalitarian than the EU, yet try to tell us that Corbyn is too extreme and the EU is the big bogeyman. Do you see the pattern here? It is not entirely their own fault. The right wing media and puppet masters of the government are extremely powerful and have done their jobs well. It is up to us to try to destroy their grip on politics. Revolution no longer needs to use violence. Education released us from the thrall of the church. It will do the same with the new religion that has Murdoch as pope but it will take a while. The dinosaurs on here will die out and the young will shake their heads in disbelief.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 19 - 02:32 AM

Of the approx. 34,000 laws on the UK 's statute book, only around 4,500 have been influenced by the EU. Of those approx. 4,500 laws, only 72 were 'forced on us' - i.e. we were out-voted and had to accept the decision of the majority. 72 laws out of a total of 34,000. Hardly a case of being 'controlled by' the EU, is it?

And regarding 'Elites', who do you think has driven the BrexShit campaign for the purposes of their own financial gain? Why it's the UK 's own Elite of course - shady, immensely wealthy characters in the shadows, acting for no other purpose than their own, huge financial interests, pushing the buttons of the bigots, the xenophobes, the Union-Jack-boxers-brigade, the easily-led, and the feeble-minded, in order to get their way. You think you're 'Taking Back Control', but you've been bamboozled by the UK's own Elite into giving them complete control, and their purpose has nothing to do with your best interests. And, of course, the controls which the EU currently have in place to rein-in their excesses will no longer apply after BrexShit. As Al Jolson famously said, "You ain't see nothing yet!".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 08:23 PM

No, but we can read the bloody papers. Anyone for enforced chlorine chicken and hormonal beef, which we will have to take whether we like it or not because we've decided to take back control? Thing is, Stanron, I've given you some particular issues but all you can do is flail about with predigested generalities. Do try to focus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 08:08 PM

Approximately half our trade is with an economy which is failing into recession. You think we should devote ourselves to support that?. I think we should align ourselves with a secure future outside of the EU. You talk about our being dictated to by the US. We are now dictated to by the EU. You cannot provide any evidence that EU authority is better for the UK than proposals by the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:56 PM

What absolute nonsense. Approximately half our trade, imports and exports, is with the EU. About one percent of our GDP is tied up with the EU and almost half of that is tied up with agriculture (and agriculture comprises around 0.75% of our GDP). Hardly any of our domestic laws that are not connected with EU trade and agriculture have anything to do with the EU. The EU has no say over our domestic legal system, our currency, our taxation policy or anything else to do with the way we decide to run the place. We have to abide by high standards of democracy, human rights and food safety. Any objection to that, Stanron, or would you rather have us dictated to by a country with far lower standards who don't need us though we need them? You can't win here, Stan, unless you turn yourself into a Boris. Thing is, some of us, unlike you, have bothered to look things up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:34 PM

The European Union is not a trading bloc first and foremost. We had that with the EEC. Various treaties since then changed the Economic Community to a Political Community. If you don't have the intellectual chops to actually understand what has gone on since then you shouldn't post your misunderstandings here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:00 PM

The European Union is a trading bloc first and foremost. It sets standards for trade as high as anywhere in the world. You can't have a trading bloc of 28 fiercely independent nations without politics. But nearly everything agreed by those countries is agreed by consensus. Any nation or commission who gets above itself is at the mercy of a very powerful veto structure. There is no European army because it has been vetoed by the UK. There is no ever-closer union because the UK doesn't want it. If you think that leaving is taking back control, come back in a couple of years' time, Stanron, and tell me how we've stopped the US from taking control of our trading standards. Do remember to tell us how to get the chlorine out of your Sunday roast. Remember to tell us how those hormones in your beef are helping to make your mouth water, and tell us triumphantly how you've taken back control of our food quality. The trouble is, Stanron, that every time you come on here posting about brexit you bring nothing apart from brainless received wisdom. You've never actually looked into anything first, never. I can only assume that you acquire your unthinking opinions from those braying Question Time audiences. It's a real shame, old chap. But you're not untypical, unfortunately for the well-being of this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 06:11 PM

Backwoodsman, may I say that I prefer your postings without fecal expletives. I managed to read the first five or six paragraphs of your posting before giving up. It will hit the spot for remainers but for this leaver it is just a squashed toothpaste tube of irrelevant diatribe.

We are not leaving Europe. We are leaving the European Union. The European Union is a political construct that follows the pattern of the failed Roman Empire and the failed Catholic church. It is a hierarchical power structure that focuses power out of the hands of the demos into the hands of an elite. Long and soon may it fail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM

Maybe, rather than spouting about DUP 'bigots' (are there no Catholic bigots?) and using the pejorative word 'Prods', Jim should think about some of the initiatives shown here, which also shows the depths of the problems:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47373925

The bit that caught my attention was 'children as young as two already exhibit signs of sectarian bigotry'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 05:46 PM

You're calling me a 'Little Englander'?

WHAT that is THAT about? It's all in your head, Jim.

"Pretty sensible line to draw given the Irish tendency to murder each other". I'm standing by that: I think that this is precisely why the line was drawn where it was: because otherwise there would have been more bloodshed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 05:23 PM

Jim

I will just say once again that it was YOU who predicted that Brexit would lead to a return to "sectarian violence". You, yourself, personally.

Can't be bothered to respond to your twistings of what I posted and what I think.

Whatever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 03:52 PM

yawm!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 03:39 PM

Back to the thread topic.

Restaurant critic A.A. Gill writing about Brexit in the Times before his death in Dec 2016. Words of great wisdom which our resident Brexit-Brigade would do well to consider, educate themselves, and get back to reality...

“It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me.
She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”

"It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”

"Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.

"We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.

"The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity. And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.

"All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

"There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them. The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

"Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty

"We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

"Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”

"When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”

"Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

"Nine out of 10 economists say ‘remain in the EU’

"You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.

"Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

"The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

"No time for walls: the best of Europe, from its music and food to IM Pei’s pyramid at the Louvre, depends on an easy collision of cultures.

"There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.

"The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.

"Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?

"I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM

Happy Birthday Baccy
You don't look a day over 89
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM

900!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 10:06 AM

https://order-order.com/2019/03/03/long-bailey-labour-arent-looking-overturn-referendum/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:46 AM

My partner has informed my that Czech businesses are expecting to face losses of 30 billion Korun (about £1 bn) if UK leaves the EU. If that happend, UK tax payers must compensate Czech companies for the damage the nasty British little shits are doing to their betters. If they don't then they are no better than excrement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM

It would be misleading to suggest that Ireland was the only place British rule left a mess being it of course
The Empire left a mess for the residents to mop up WHEREVER THEY PUT THEIR BIG FEET
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:02 AM

Like every post from Guido it's says absolutely nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 09:01 AM

Let's all leave the deluded old fool in the wilderness where he belongs.

Meanwhile little gems from Guido the font of all political truths!

Strong competition within the Shadow Cabinet this morning for most brazenly dishonest line on a second referendum…


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 08:33 AM

"It is not 'racist' but a matter of historical fact that Irish people have killed other Irish people."
As Brits have killed Brits and any other nationality that gets in their way
You used your racist accusation to justify partitioning Ireland yet it was the creation of a sectarian state by Britain along with the propping up of a sectarian minority that seet one group against the other
"Pretty sensible line to draw given the Irish tendency to murder each other"
Your Little Englander ignorance of the Irish question is breathtaking in its shallowness and your suggestion that the Irish would continue to slaughter each other is as racist as it gets
I really thought that sort of mentality died with the empire that used it to control most of the world
It is [petty significant that throughout the Troubles, despite claims such as yours, that the troops were only there to keep the peace, the Army carefully chose which side it was on and assisted that side in every way possible
The British establishment is still sprinting around like a blue-arsed fly attempting to cover up some of the atrocities it was part in and prevent the perpetrators having to stand trial for their actions

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/northern-ireland-backstop-the-troubles-theresa-may-brexit-european-union-red-lines-a8803336.html
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 08:12 AM

It is not 'racist' but a matter of historical fact that Irish people have killed other Irish people. Much of this happened in what was called 'The Troubles'. Jim himself accepted this when he said he supposed that Brexit might lead to a return to 'sectarian violence'. Note the word 'return'. On that basis he accepts the historical facts, which are that Irish people have killed eachother. I think I might have used words such as 'murdered' and also 'tarred and feathered' and 'punishment shootings' as well, none of which makes me racist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 07:29 AM

An interesting clip

EU army?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uggLsHDEk4

Oh what a twisted web we weave........


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM

"But to narrow the focus simply to the role of the British government for a moment: for all the massive irresponsibility and buck-passing that characterised the five years of crisis, the state succeeded in organising public relief schemes that employed three-quarters of a million workers, and at one point was responsible for feeding three million people on a daily basis.

These are not the actions of a Government or a state bent on genocide."


Now are you paying attention jimmie?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM

Can I just hastily add a comment aimed at those of us who agree that we don't respond to a serial abuser
The Irish Question has once again become a major feature of British politics
We have two posters who have decided to adopt a racist attitude towards the Irish (one always has done)
For the sake of clarity, the subject needs to be nipped in the bud now before it gets a toe-hold
I have said what I believe needs to be said - as far as I am concerned, it ends there
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM

TO NO-ONE IN PARTICULAR
A WIDER VIEW - NOT PARTICULARLY FOR "BOGTROTTER RACISTS"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 04:08 AM

It is quite amusing in its way that 'senior Tory MPs soften opposition to Brexit deal' in the Guardian's phrase. In short, Brady of amendment fame has recommended the acceptance of the deal to the 1922 committee if Cos can come back with a form of words to reassure them the border agreement is temporary. They seem to have forgotten that it was declared to be so 8 December 2017 "JOINT REPORT FROM THE NEGOTIATORS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE UNITED KINGDOM GOVERNMENT ON PROGRESS DURING PHASE 1 OF NEGOTIATIONS UNDER ARTICLE 50 paragraphs 42-56, which make use of phrases like "In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union" which make plain that these arrangement would end if an agreed alternative is in place.


There can be as much flannel as you wish says that the EU and UK do want to reach such an alternative agreement, but I think it is 100% certain any new words Cox brings back will keep that line: everything stays in place until a new agreement is reached.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 04:03 AM

Of course Jim is clearly guilty of being in violation of The European Union Framework Decision for Combating Racism and Xenophobia (2007)

The text establishes that the following intentional conduct will be punishable in all EU Member States:

    - Publicly inciting to violence or hatred, even by dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material, directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin.

The deliberately mishandled famine which wiped out a million and drove out another million over five years
This is a thinly veiled accusation of genocide and should be dealt with accordingly.
I trust the bitter old racist bigot feels proud of himself! He stands condemned by his own words.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 03:15 AM

"It could be argued that people who dismiss as Irish people who came from Scotland several hundred years ago are 'racist', and, indeed, at least one Irish (as apparently defined by Jim)"
I have called nobody but you and Iains racist Karen - you both have sterotyped Irish people - you are "killing each other" - Iarins as "bogtrotters" - as racist in my book as it gets
In 1922 Britain forced through a treaty which deliberately created a sectarian (not racist) state giving the power to the two thirds majority - an unequal state in terms of property ownership, voting rights and employment.
That led to nearly half a century of sectarian based violence and culminated in open warfare
Members of my own family, including two small children, were driven from their home with only what they could carry in suitcases and on a pushchair containing th youngest child
When protests demanding Civil Rights broke out in the late sixties, peaceful demonstrators were directed by the police, through screaming mobs of Loyalist bigots - the result, several years of open warfare
None of this was racist - it was down to a sectarian state created and supported by Westminster
Now the same Westminster is still using the same sectarian group to keep its Government in office, sing teh British taxpayers money to do so
The consequences of Brexit are quite likely to lead to a renewal of violence between the two communities and until the Little Englanders over the water get their head around that fact, that will remain a threat
This has never been about race - the ordinary Irish people get on well together when they are not being used by England (Westminster is equally well-able to use the other national groups in Britain when it suits their purpose
Yours and you new friend's stereotyping of the Irish people is a disgrace
I suggest your go read a book, I doubt if your friend is able
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 01:19 AM

It could be argued that people who dismiss as Irish people who came from Scotland several hundred years ago are 'racist', and, indeed, at least one Irish (as apparently defined by Jim) historians have suggested that at times Irish Nationalism has been tainted by 'racist' views of what being Irish is. Do people whose origins were, say, Muslim count as Irish in Jim's 'origins' based definition I wonder?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 03 Mar 19 - 01:17 AM

Irrational bile sounds good to me. Now let's leave this where it is eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 08:33 PM

Inexplicably, the pound has done quite well this week. Bought another couple of hundred euros, I have... I just hope the buggers will let me into Europe! I hear that a no-deal brexit could lead to passport delays amounting to five hours per aeroplane load. Didn't see that on the side of a bus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Mar 19 - 06:54 PM

I've been discussing Iains with the mods lately

Lololol............a sure sign he's feeling threatened by someone who's mounting a convincing counter argument to his position. He's done to others before so beware.


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