UK 60s Folk Club Boom?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 04:05 AM

"Technology"
The spread of literacy led to the fixing of song texts - part of our work with source singers was asking them about songs they learned from print
The few that did said they hardly changed the songs - they were set texts - Tom Lenihan said he didn't trust 'the ballads' because "they never got them right' (you need to remember that people like Tom came from a living, very creative tradition) songs songs they already knew, much preferring to get them fro other singers (particularly the non- literate Travellers)
Literacy had the eventual effect of destroying the oral traditions because it did away with the need for them
Why should electronic communication - an extension of literacy, reverse the process, be considered another tradition ?
This seems like another researchers 'fad' to me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:50 AM

I was asking you specifically, Jim, for your opinion, and you haven't answered the second part of the question.

You particularly single out Bell. What proportion of the songs in this book are broadside ballads and what proportion would you say are taken from oral tradition?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:22 AM

Some pool player once remarked [in my hearing]when Martin Carthy came on the jukebox singing bonny lass of anglesea , oh its that jazz singer.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:04 AM

" Had I asked other people at the tram stop, "
You didn't so you don't know Howard
If you had and they'd replied it was, would they have been able to define what a folk song was - how can a song made and copyrighted by Dylan belong to the folk ?
If 'folk doesn't mean 'made and belonging to the folk', what does it mean?
Would you pursue any other subject by aking people from busts-stops - from stamp collecting to quantum physics - of course you wouldn't !!
Why should folk song be different that it should be based on mass ignorance ?
As I said earlier, people in general knew far more what folk song was a century ago than they do now.
To study or to run a club you choose to refer to as 'folk' implies a specific type of song, yet you refuse top describe what you are selling - sharp practice in my book
The clubs were'nt 'part of the folk' - this is a new claim - we were borrowing from the folk repertoire
Composer George Butterworth wrote the most exquisite piece of of English orchestral Music, 'Banks of Green Willow', based on the Child Ballad, 'Bonnie Annie', Vaughan Williams did similar with English folk song, 'Lovely Joan' - were they 'part of the folk, or were they borrowing from the genre ?
Your excuses for the scene dying are just that - excuses - we were bon busier aster the clubs died than we were before, yet for decades we filled the clubs
There was at least one long debate just prior the clubs dying and "too busy" never appeared on the horizon - poorly run folk clubs, indifferent performances and not hearing folk songs weer pretty well front runners
I didn't put up the article by the way, somebody who believes the club scene to be in the best of health did as evidence that all was well
I tend to rely on common sense and my own findings rather than arbitrarily pasted opinions
"You make much of folk clubs being active rather than passive,"
Never have - must have been someone else
I said ours (the people's) culture was active rather than passive - they made, sang and swapped their songs - now they receive them passively
What happened at the clubs doesn't come into the equation

"Remind us then, who exactly are 'the folk' "
The term was used to identify the artifacts being gathered from 'THe Common People' as the peasantry/rural working classes were referred to at the time to distinguish them from the educated elite and the formal artists -
Irish writers of the time actually referred to them as 'the Peasantry' as Ireland still had remnents of a Peasant economy
English writer, Robert Bell (1800-1867) actually entitled his collection 'Ancient Poems, Ballads, and Songs of the Peasantry of England'
You shouldn't have to ask this Steve - it's basic stuff
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 02:28 AM

To be clear, I'm not claiming that the folk scene is in as healthy a state as it was in the 60s. Fashions change. For a brief time in the 60s folk music was cool (although this led -mainly by contemporary folk rather than traditional) and the clubs benefited from that. It came to be regarded as a bit odd, listened to be people with beards and sweaters, and probably wearing socks with sandals.

What I am saying is that it's not as bad as you claim, and measuring it by the number of folk clubs (whatever that might be) is to ignore the many other opportunities to hear folk music which now exist.

Can you please give some examples of the "pop" songs which you think are such a threat to traditional song?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 07:18 PM

Jim, you ask for an example of the sort of music I am talking about.

As it happens, I read your reply while I was waiting for a tram, and in the background a busker was singing "Don't think twice, it's alright". Had I asked other people at the tram stop, I believe most of them would have described that as a folk song. I also think they would have disagreed that it was a pop song.

That song, and others like it, was widely sung in folk clubs from the 1960s onwards, alongside traditional songs. They were part of "folk" in the broader sense which all but a few clubs embraced. If you are suggesting that songs like this caused people to turn away from folk clubs in their thousands, all I can say is that it took them several decades to do so. The clubs continued to thrive until the late 80s/early 90s. The reason for their decline has been discussed elsewhere. One reason may have been that the folk club generation found that work and family commitments got in the way. Punk may have offered the younger generation the opportunities for self-expression which the folk clubs had previously.

I haven't disputed that the folk clubs are much reduced, although I query the figure of 180 clubs which seems to have come from a Wikipedia article with no evidence to support it. I have already shown that there appear to be at least 50 clubs in the north west alone (and that's only those who belong to the Federation). I find it hard to believe that this region accounts for around 1/3 of all the clubs in the country. Furthermore there are other venues besides folk clubs to hear folk music, including traditional songs. As Steve said, the clubs were an artificial construct - they worked for a time but other artificial constructs are now joining them and perhaps taking their place, such as house concerts. I see large numbers of young people taking up folk music.

You make much of folk clubs being active rather than passive, but the majority of people who went to folk clubs never got up to perform but sat there and listened.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 04:23 PM

>>>>Hardly a traditional!<<<<

When scholars talk about a tradition' and use the word 'traditional' not a single one has put actual time parameters on this, and that is perhaps how it should be. Just as we look at these music genres using Venn diagrams we have no collective concept of a timeline in which something moves from not being traditional to being traditional. To give an example, we talk about passing on from one generation to another which in the terms of families is about a 25-year period on average, but in terms of children in the playground a generation is just one year group passing on to lower age groups and I suppose the same applies to children in the street but not as rigidly applied.

Whilst the usual processes of oral tradition have been drastically affected by technology over the centuries, there are new similar processes at work with technology playing an increasingly great part. You could say an excellent example is Mudcat itself.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 04:08 PM

Thanks Steve.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 03:30 PM

No, Dave. That's why we call it a revival. We were reviving the music using a completely new format. The whole thing was a false construct. It was not continuing anything that had gone before other than the music itself and that was taken out of context. Even the traditional singers who were occasionally brought in were performing in an alien environment to an almost entirely new audience. But those realists among us were happy with this new music and it helped knowing it was collectively part of our heritage; and we embraced the whole scene, song, music, dance, drama. Those of us who stuck with it for the last 50 years or so were, and still are, inspired by it.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 02:49 PM

I had another thought. Digging up a bush in the garden today must have jolted my brain!

Folk clubs were not a natural venue for traditional folk song. Those songs were sung in the fields and barns and on the ships. They were sung in pubs and peoples houses and at fairs. Before the 1950s the concept of a folk club did not exist. When they formed they gave the people the chance to experience the music without the hard work that it should be associated with. As an entity they are less than 70 years old. Hardly a traditional!

Anything wrong with that train of thought?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 02:24 PM

Remind us then, who exactly are 'the folk' and when was the term first applied to their artefacts, song in particular? (Repeat of post 25th Feb, 3.08 p.m.)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM

Hard to discuss the 50s boom without including what made it eexplode in the fist place
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 11:35 AM

I suggest that the thread be returned to the title above

I do follow what Jim is ascertaining, however people will continue to make music and arrange both old and new songs which may or may not continue to stand the test of time

My view is that the English language will continue to recognise the terms Traditional folk songs and Contemporary Folk songs and some of us will understand what is meant even if the terms are not correct to others

Ray

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 09:13 AM

"recently composed songs which don't always follow traditional forms but which are not "pop"
Happy to accept that fully Howard but how can they be "widely accepted" by a dwindling 'folk scene' that only has a claimed 180 clubs - who are the 'widely'
That some folkies do accept them as such doesn't mean a damned thing in the grand order of things   
Acceptability to whom ?
The future of folk music lies in it being recognised as such in all its aspects - once that has been established you can begin to rebuild what was once a very healthy movement based on the real thing
I'm at a bit of a loss here - can you specify what songs you mean and why they resemble folk
I have no problem with songs made using folk structures and having the same objective - storytelling, communication of experiences and emotions using narratively structured words -
For research purposes, they will never be folk songs until they go through a process, but that's beside the point
In the main, newly composed songs using such techniques have always been accepted
People began turning away in their thousands when they attended clubs which were dominated by songs that bore no resemblance to those they thought they would hear - the homogeneity had disappeared their choice of what they wished to listen to had been removed, the magazines, shops and labels disappeared
That continues to be the case
You can hardly claim that the shift has been a success and our chance of passing on what gave some of us a lifetime to pleasure and stimulation to the next generation was severely damaged
Try applying this attitude to any other musical form - well it "sounds a bit like" jazz, classical music, blues, pop..... and see how ridiculous it sounds
What's so different about folk song ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 08:44 AM

Jim, what you appear unwilling to accept is that there is a large body of fairly recently composed songs which don't always follow traditional forms but which are not "pop". They were widely accepted as falling within the broader understanding of "folk" and have been a normal part of the folk club repertoire for several decades, without being seen as a threat to traditional music. If I understand you correctly, you appear to regard most of these songs as falling into the category of "pop" rather than folk.

Your pessimistic view of the future of folk music seems to be at least in part affected by a somewhat narrow view of what you consider to be "near-folk",ie not traditional but close enough to be acceptable. Even at the height of the folk club boom, this would have excluded the vast majority of clubs, most of which had a broader policy which would allow most contemporary folk whilst still not (as a rule) including pop.

This thread and others like it can never reach a conclusion because we are permanently at cross-purposes. Most of us have a wider tolerance of what can be expected in a folk club (even though it may not be to our own taste). You are of course entitled to your own views but most other contributors see a wider folk scene and one which is in far better health than you would have us believe, albeit one which is changing to meet new times and a new generation of enthusiasts.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 06:00 AM

Guest
No apology needed
Here we are discussing a specific body of songs which were attributed to a specific section of the population - that description has remained valid right up to the present day and will continue to be so until someone replaces it with another to describe a unique culture, which also covers music, dance, tales, customs and lore.... the disciplines are inseparable
I agree the people no longer create, but I don't accept that it is because they are too busy -
People still need diversion - they have gone elsewhere for it - now they have become customers rather than participant swhich, to a degree, minimises their role in society
Theit voice has been removed from the equation so they no longer have a platform for self expression
I've told this several times before, but it's worth repeating
Some time ago I discovered a whole body of songs among those we recorded here in Clare which could only have been made locally and during the lifetimes of the singer
They covered every subject under the sun concerning life in the early part of the 20th century - shipwrecks, land disputes, political warfare, drownings, arranged marriages..... right through to a local railway and fashion - all anonymous and all locally made
An old singer (still with us and now aged 98) summed them up perfectly when he said, "In those days, if a man farted in church someone made a song about it".
We've since found that practice was common throughout Ireland
You want to hear examples of these songs, look up 'The Quilty Burning', or 'The Bobbed Hair', or 'The Rineen Ambush' or 'The West Clare Railway' , or 'The Leon'..... and several more
CARROLL/MACKENZIE COLLECTION
People need to express themselves rather than pay someone to do it for them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 05:19 AM

Apologies to Jim Carroll for what appears to be a misunderstanding. When I wrote that Folk ~ are people ~ Full Stop I was using the word "folk" in it's broadest and archaic meaning given in the dictionary as people in general. I hope that clears that up.

Today "People in general" do not write poems, do not write songs, do not play musical instruments, do not dedicate years of their lives to some clearly defined art form because the vast majority of "People in general" are too busy just getting on with life. Now back in the time long before jazz and before it's offshoot - skiffle, "people in general" worked the land and sailed the seas and the work they did was manual and labour intensive. Part of them "just getting on with life" involved collective effort and to give that work rhythm and co-ordination they sang or chanted to improve the efficiency of what they were doing and to relieve the boredom of it.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 04:29 AM

"Folk song is a living entity whether it is deemed traditional or Contemporary folk song"
No it isn't
It died when 'the people' ceased to be active participants in their culture and became passive recipients of what somebody manufactured and owned
Folk song has been carefully documented and reproduced for over a century - it's that 'folk song' that we took up a lifetime ago and it's that which continues to hold rights to the title
If this were a trial I would be ably to provide many thousands of example of examples of what real folk song is - can you produce a single validated argument other than the opinions of a disappearing group of people who want what they do to be fol song?
Where is the evidence for your claim ?
Simple question (again)
The most commonly song sung today is researched to be Abba's 'Waterloo' and 'The Birdie Song'
Are they folk songs - if not, why not?
Jim Carroll
By the way - if Bach, Callas and Archer are not 'The Folk' who exactly do you mean by The Folk?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 03:33 AM

we are all people,but some of us are also pillocks

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 03:18 AM

Your re-invention of the term makes Bach a folk Composer, Maria Callas a folk singer, Jeffrey Archer a writer of folk stories and Rudolph Nureyev a folk dancer - and 'The Birdie Song a folk song

Maria Callas is/was am opera singer ~ Rudolph Nureyev was a ballet dancer Bach was a composer of orchestral music ~ they fall into a different class
~ Jeffrey Archer is a novelist!

Folk music is music of the people, basic compositions as is folk song, carrying on the tradition without actually being traditional!

Folk song is a living entity whether it is deemed traditional or Contemporary folk song

We are all people ~ I hope!

Ray

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 03:08 PM

Remind us then, who exactly are 'the folk' and when was the term first applied to their artefacts, song in particular?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 02:29 PM

It seems that, as what is being now claimed as 'folk music' has in particular identity, open mike is as good as any
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 02:05 PM

How about "open mic night" for those that do not do folk music?

Oh, hang on, someone has! :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 01:30 PM

"Folk ~ are people"
In which case, we have no way of distinguishing the folk arts from any other art form
Funny - vever had any trouble up to know
The term was created to do just that and it seems an act of cultural vandalism to misuse it - we really were here first - why not get your own term (difficult, I suppose, as the incomers seem totally unable to identify what they are now selling as folk)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 01:16 PM

Folk ~ are people ~ people who make and craft songs & poems~ play music to entertain and inform the result is Folk songs ~ songs of the people by the people for the people!!

Trite meaningless twaddle Ray

The only factual bit there is - Folk ~ are people ~ Full stop. Among those folk there will be a few who make and craft songs and poems. The reasons and motivations for them doing this will vary enormously.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 12:32 PM

"Folk ~ are people ~ people who make and craft songs & poems"
Meaningless Ray
The term was applied to the largely rural working people in order to identify, first their unique superstitions and customs and later their stories, songs and music - Child used the term 'popular "of the people
Your re-invention of the term makes Bach a folk Composer, Maria Callas a folk singer, Jeffrey Archer a writer of folk stories and Rudolph Nureyev a folk dancer - and 'The Birdie Song a folk song
Please don't be silly
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 12:24 PM

Folk ~ are people ~ people who make and craft songs & poems~ play music to entertain and inform the result is Folk songs ~ songs of the people by the people for the people!!

Traditional folk songs ~

Tradition - a process that absorbs, changes and distributes a song until it becomes ownerless
Folk - the people who put it through that process ~ traditional folk songs

Ray

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 08:13 AM

It strikes me that a scene that I have just described above is far more 'up-to-date' with the constant creation of new songs than the poor performances of decades old pop songs that are only significant to those who weer around when they were being well sung
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 07:31 AM

"If we were to take the 1954 defintion seriously"
Iwonder why it is only those who oppose the '54 definition are the only ones ever to raise it !!
Folk song is far simpler define than that
Tradition - a process that absorbs, changes and distributes a song until it becomes ownerless
Folk - the people who put it through that process
Take that as your starting point and you have little need to go further
The making of new songs using 'folk' forms and presenting them together not only them as museum pieces, but it allows both to survive and continue by building a foundation
Everything lse is opportunistic and destructive bullshit - by using pop forms to create so-called 'modern folk songs' will win no new enthusiasts (it hasn't so far) and is quite likely to take on the 'self-destruct to make room for the next one' ethos of the genre
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 07:15 AM

Sandman that has been my argument all along. Ancient methods of creation, transmission and alteration have been rendered obsolescent by the modern world. A rigid definition encapsulating only traditional folk has the implicit acceptance the genre is pickled in aspic or fossilised in amber. you aint going to create a sea shanty when the modern world relies on pushing a button or keystrokes, the same with folk music.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 07:02 AM

If we were to take the 1954 defintion seriously Tradtional folk song has become a museum piece,and only now exists in the form of football chants

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 06:47 AM

Just poted this to a friend off-line
I thought I'd share it

I think that, while the folk scene continues to be a dumping ground for songs that people can't be arsed to find another name for, and while we are plagued with arrogant megalomaniac academics who seem hell bent on burning over a century's worth of research, a vital working people's art form has little chance of continuing to be enjoyed and appreciated - may it RIP
It really was great while it lasted
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 06:11 AM

Whoops keyed too soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6DzGKNYaqM

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 06:10 AM

After all, folk clubs were far better out of Europe :-)

That might isolate you from Celtic cousins! Otherwise you might forget your celtic p's and q's

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 05:46 AM

I just had an idea! Maybe after brexit when England gets back to her former glory we will see a return to the heady days of the 1960's. After all, folk clubs were far better out of Europe :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 05:41 AM

"When i use the phrase Carroll Codswallop, i am not abusing "
Then you need to invest in a dictionary Dick
Forget it
"It must be a clever bit of music to be many things to many people :-)"
As is The Flight of the Bumblebee - doesn't make it a candidate for a folk night
"So there is ONLY Traditional folk song"
Folk refers to the people who made it, made it their own within communities until the original maker is forgotten or has become insignificant and freely passed it on without restrictions for others to do the same
If that still happens, there is contemporary folk music
If it doesn't, there is no contemporary folk music as we have become passive recipients of our culture
If we're lucky, there will be plenty of songs made using the unique structure of folk song, but a glance above suggests that that's not going to happen very soon
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 05:05 AM

Ok... ???

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 04:27 AM

There is no such thing as Contemporary Folk Music

So there is ONLY Traditional folk song

Righto

Ray

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 05:00 PM

Eeeee. He's a clever bloke that young Endeavour Morse. Good taste too. Shaun Evans who play him is a Scouser though so my Manc heritage stops me from praising him too highly :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 04:47 PM

When i use the phrase Carroll Codswallop, i am not abusing you ,iam refrrin to a silly statement that you made, if i called you a nincom poop , that is personal abuse, but i have not called you a nincompoop, codswallop and its possible origin
The story goes that a man by the name of Hiram Codd patented a bottle for fizzy drinks with a marble in the neck, which kept the bottle shut by pressure of the gas until it was pressed inwards. Wallop was a slang term for beer, and Codd's wallop came to be used by beer drinkers as a derogatory term for weak or gassy beer, or for soft drinks

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 04:42 PM

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 04:14 PM

Tell you what though, Jim (checking in during commercial breaks in Endeavour). It must be a clever bit of music to be many things to many people :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 04:00 PM

Bach from the dead?

:D

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 02:48 PM

"Music for a found harmonium was written in 1984 by Simon Jeffes"
My mistake - but if you compare both - he seems to leaned heavily on Bach for his composition - some would call it plagiarism if Bach hadn't been dead for so long
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 02:37 PM

I'd be very happy to hear it played well in a session but I don't think there would be many joining in.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 02:25 PM

Sez you! :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 02:24 PM

"Music for a found harmonium was written in 1984 by Simon Jeffes. My point was that it you did not know that it would sit happily in any traditional music (not song) session and is indeed included in the BBC's virtual session".
It feckin would not.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 02:12 PM

...And thanks for the clarification. I obviously mis-read something so apologise for that anyway :-)

It gives me chance to come back with a bit of light relief that I had not spotted on the BBC session comments page before.

Re: Origins of Music for a found harmonium?
It sounded good when Mr P. Street once did it but it sounds awful in sessions. That key-change is a bit on the esoteric side, and I can’t play the bloody thing on a diatonic harmonica.

# Posted by Steve Shaw 8 years ago.

A Steve Shaw who plays harmonica in sessions. Who do we know like that? :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 02:02 PM

BTW, Jim.

Classical music

serious music following long-established principles rather than a folk, jazz, or popular tradition.
(more specifically) music written in the European tradition during a period lasting approximately from 1750 to 1830, when forms such as the symphony, concerto, and sonata were standardized.

Music for a found harmonium was written in 1984 by Simon Jeffes. My point was that it you did not know that it would sit happily in any traditional music (not song) session and is indeed included in the BBC's virtual session.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 01:54 PM

"Where have I abused you?"
You- haven't - unless it was you who wrote "Carroll Codswallop" - which was what I was responding to
Jim