BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:20 PM

Europe, particularly Germany and the Nordic countries, has taken hundreds of thousands of Syrians and various ME refugees in an unprecedented resettlement effort. Turkey and Lebanon have sizable resettlement camps. I think the UK and US have some latitude in accepting the odd lot while not forgetting that a legal precedent will be established.
One thing that is being willfully ignored is that the means exist of technologically monitoring an awful lot of people awful closely. Maybe we don't want or deserve it for ourselves, but if I was a refugee with honest intentions I'd welcome it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:43 AM

Onwarr Christian soldiers seems appropriate

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:04 AM

Good to see even the Guardian talks some sense,unlike the quaint, lefty cuckoo land the 2 posters above live in.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..........!

In October 2016 in Morocco, 10 women were arrested for plotting a suicide attack during parliamentary elections, four of which had seemingly married Isis members in Iraq and Syria over the internet.
Last year, British security services foiled a terror attack on the British Museum in London, and the country’s first all-female terror cell linked to Isis was arrested and convicted this year. Safaa Boular, a British teenager who went on to marry an Isis fighter online, was part-radicalised by a female Australian national in Syria. and on and on!


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/23/number-of-women-and-children-joining-isis-significantly-underestimated

Their patently false outrage is getting a tad wearing doncha think?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:24 AM

Yup certainly does - it's called having your cake and eating it
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:16 AM

That's it, Jim. But don't forget how the "unfortunate" deaths of children make "solutions" simpler...

Sounds like an echo of something else from long ago, doesn't it...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 08:21 AM

Most bizarre that someone who constantly quotes the Christian Gospel shows not a shred of Christian charity and humanity in his postings concerning a teenager who has just lost her recently born child
What we've cone to expect, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:06 AM

Most bizarre that a self proclaimed atheist feels the need to introduce "Christ on a bike" to make some kind of statement. After all Merriam Webster clearly defines atheist as a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM

The camp of the young lady in question is I believe in the Kurdish enclave in the NE. President Assad has yet to reclaim that area.of his country. The malaria risk is low. There is probably a higher risk of
Leishmaniasis from sandflies. In the time I worked in Syria I heard no mention of malaria, unlike Angola and a lot of tropical West Africa, where not taking antimalarials could pose a real hazard.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:57 PM

"The unfortunate death of the child reduces the complexity of possible solutions..."

Christ on a bloody bike.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:37 PM

I don't suppose Assad is generous with mosquito nets in the Syrian camps, so one can only assume that there must be millions of mosquitoes needlesly dying of AIDS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:55 PM

It is blowing a hoolie where I am. Severe gale 9.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM

On our street, I have to keep early morning vigil to stop the bins being nicked...

oh.. the stresses of living in the developed Western world....

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:37 PM

No excitement - I'm just pondering the fortnightly slog of putting out recycling from behind our garage for tomorrow morning's collection, for which car in garage must first be removed then put back !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM

Iains - What's the most expedient answer then - evacuate the camp humanitarian workers
and then drop a MOAB on it...!!!???




Bonz.. curb your excitement.. I'm not being serious...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 02:51 PM

PFR Those that are offspring of recent immigrants should realise that with citizenship comes responsibility. By joining our enemies are they not rejecting the citizenship we offer? Stripping citizenship from a few such people sends a very strong message to those that may wish to follow. There are no quikfixes. Each measured response has an upside and downside. What message is required to be sent and what is the best means of transmission? The unfortunate death of the child reduces the complexity of possible solutions but makes them no easier. The fact many are incarcerated in a warzone is a fault of their own creation. The war in Syria and Iraq has been largely driven by Isis for the last couple of years at least. What justification can be offered to risk additional lives in order to extract them from a hell they were instrumental in creating? Repatriating the millions of refugees would be a far more noble effort in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:37 PM

Iains - how far back did I say I'd agree in principle with well run humane [remote island ?] internment camps...???

All practical and financial complexities aside...

Surely it's better for European countries to take back their own citizens,
and hold them in constructive guarded quarantine for as long as necessary
- splitting them up and spreading them round in smaller controlable units.
Than having them all concentrated in one festering mega camp where they continue to be uncontrolled and further radicalised...

The small children in this squalid camp are tomorrow's bitter fanatical terrorists...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:53 PM

If anything I have slightly hardened my position. UK law does not acknowledge her defection to Isis is by itself a crime. I would argue it should be. She should be both punished and incarcerated until it is established she poses no threat.

There are those that argue:
she has been groomed, trafficked and horribly abused

She is brainwashed. She was an immature teen when she went. She has lived for years amongst extremists


She was a child when she left and is not yet out of her teens.

etc etc

There are some here who are saying "they were just kids" and are the same people who were campaigning for the referendum voting age to be lowered to 16 on the grounds that people of that age are perfectly capable of exercising mature judgement.

The fluffy bunnies are those that seek excuses and refuse to acknowledge the crime. You backwoodsman have never been among their number on this thread.

I do not think that saying coochie, coochie coo and handing out a giro is really going to hack it!r

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM

Senoufou, you might find the strategies described here of interest:

I'm listen"The roots of extremism, with Deeyah Khan," on The Ezra Klein Show with @TuneIn.

http://tun.in/ti0LDQ

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 10:23 AM

"PFR that idea is all very well Providing a period on incarceration and extensive interrogation establishes no vestigial threat exists."

I'm not going to be arsed to read the entire thread again but, from memory, I'm pretty sure that's precisely what those of us whom you persist in insulting by the use of epithets such as 'apologists' and 'the fluffy bunny brigade' have proposed. It's certainly what I suggested in my very first post on this thread....my post of 15 Feb 19 07:52 AM -

"For, I think, the first time ever, I'm in absolute agreement with Jacob "Call Me Jake" Rees-Mogg - she should be admitted to the UK, then thoroughly investigated and subjected to the due process of law. If that involves her being kept in detention during that time, so be it."

I won't hold my breath for you to apologise for insulting those with whom you now appear to agree - you have neither the grace nor the balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

Given how many people this is going to happen to, the conditions they are forced to live in and what Assad is likely to do about them, this is quite likely to escalate into a massive humanitarian crisis
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:24 AM

PFR that idea is all very well Providing a period on incarceration and extensive interrogation establishes no vestigial threat exists. In the light of my post about underage WW1 volunteers I cannot accept jihadi brides were young easily bamboozled idiots led astray. I see it more as cool, calculated betrayal of their adopted country, as would many other countries. That should incur penalties. Then we can consider reintegration into society(perhaps!)

This is likely the pattern of modern asymmetric warfare. It is well past the time we had the correct legal framework to deal with it. To use a definition of treason developed 700 years ago makes a mockery of both Parliament and the Judiciary.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:05 AM

Ok then.. just keep in mind I try to remain objective and thinking independently for myself.
I don't follow 'party lines'...
Even if my ideas and conclusions do end up in accord with others...

I don't like this girl,
but I think where practicable, there are good compassionate and pragmatic reasons
to give her and other teens like her a 2nd chance...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:35 AM

PFR if I was having a dig at you I would hope I would be far more transparent. I can assure you I was talking solely about the girl and trying to demonstrate that in other jurisdictions her actions would unquestionably have been unlawful, despite all her apologists on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:20 AM

Iains - let's clarify one thing here..

I responded to your line "You support our enemies, then you are our enemy!"
as from the general tone of your posts, and the fact it directly follows a quote of my writing,
it looks in context like a direct dig at me...

I'm sick of all the "If youre not with us you're against us" zealot fukwits...

If however that line is about this girl, not me, then I suggest you should have made that clearer...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:08 AM

"It is not a crime, in the UK, to marry an Isis fighter, or travel to the caliphate. The Australians have made it a crime to travel to certain regions, but a similar provision in the UK is only just about to become law. It is a crime to have aided and abetted a proscribed terrorist organisation. But sentences for that have been far too short to reflect what is arguably Ms Begum’s betrayal of her country by helping its enemies. Those enemies seek to destroy our democracy, our human rights and our people."


https://www.ft.com/content/157c8e12-3053-11e9-8744-e7016697f225

You could perhaps argue the jihadi bride was a victim when first departing Britain but that argument falls apart when after 4 years the "victim" cries help only because as a hardened jihadist her caliphate is evaporating around her ears and turning into piles of rubble.
Forgiveness starts with remorse!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 07:51 AM

Not just my thoughts.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Aiding-the-Enemy.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 07:45 AM

Iains - you are now tipping over into talking complete bollocks.
My guesstimation of that 15 year old as she was
is probably spot on.
How on earth does that make me a supporter of ISIS - today you are writing like a pillock.

I await your next more sensible post to restore confidence in your 'better' intelligence...

Apart from the fact that this girl presents a persona that is very unlikeable,
nowhere have I read how bright she was in school at age 15.
Was she a grade A pupil...???
She might be thick and easily lead, very crafty, or a combination of both.
Maybe right now she is a more of an extremely confused and frightened teenage fucked up loser...???

A somewhat more villified version of a lot of 19 year olds
that end up doing serious violent crime and terrorising decent society back here in blighty..

If she is a comparable threat to a highly trained and capable adult terrorist,
that Javid and the tory press are making her out to be.
How come they have no interest in getting her back for interrorgation,
or already eliminated her by drone...???
She's obviously of little value to them...!!!

Which indicates, there is at least a tiny chance she is still young enough to offer prospects for rehabilitation and reintegration
if she was allowed back here under her own steam for trial and detention...
A risk/gamble few of our supposedly fair-minded British citizenship are willing to consider.....

It's apparent her only worth is as a political football for polarised sections of opposing British political zealots


btw - "You support our enemies, then you are our enemy!"

you can shove that nasty nonsense right up your arse...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:32 AM

250,000 underage voung soldiers volunteered in the UK in WW1, the youngest aged 12. People only questioned their youth, not their patriotism. Their was no suggestion of brainwashing.

Yet the left shout their outrage about a treacherous teen going to join our enemies. They try to explain it away as the 'Jihadi bride' being but a silly misguided brainwashed obnoxious teen.

You support our enemies, then you are our enemy!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:13 AM

An observation worth repeating and reinforcing.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.

Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.

And now:

Not only besandled and besotted but also oblivious

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:12 AM

Knowing our government, their idea of rescue might be to take the baby, kill her, and dump her body in the sea.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:27 AM

Not only besandled and besotted but also oblivious.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM

Possibly, but that is the stuff of fiction. The underlying principle though, conveniently put aside by besandled lefties!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 06:53 PM

Bonz - if a UK newspaper had decided they could make enough money on her story
despite or because of hostile public opinion,
a team of mercs could have been sent in to get her out...

Even a daring 'rescue' mission itself would have been headline story enough to thrill readers such as yerself over sunday breakfast...

Perhaps even better if she'd been mortally wounded in the attempt to get her out...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:58 PM

In any case it would have been totally unsafe to send rescuers into that war zone - have you considered that dearie?????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:05 AM

It’s not really correct to say, as some poster did here, that Ireland has remained silent. A former Irish soldier who joined Isil is now stranded much as the unfortunate Begum is. She will be brought home with her baby; the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, has said unenthusiastically but dutifully that we can’t expect our citizens to be somebody else’s problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 07:56 PM

Idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 06:45 PM

She chose to make herself stateless when joing ISIS,and as harsh as it may sound, I wouldn't be surprised if there never were any children, just an excuse to get back here and cause absolute mayhem.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 06:30 PM

"Poor little girl. Three children dead at the age of nineteen, and no-one to help her."

Thank God we have people like Thompson who can say it plain and simple the way it is. Her post says it all. What a contrast to the several heartless, twisting, unthinking bastards who have posted their hateful bile to this thread. Thompson, I apologise for juxtaposing my rather forthright and directly-put opinion next to your measured lament. Feel free to dissociate yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 04:14 PM

What a shower of stupid bastards those nut-cases who voluteered their lives and ended them in the mud of Flanders must have been - they should never have been allowed back

What a perverted view of history!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 03:10 PM

Javid is an MP. For him long term is the next election. All he is interested in is appeasing the Daily Mail readers until then.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 10:16 AM

Bonz - ..yet...


..maybe a little old fashioned British compassion a month ago
might have brought back a young mum and baby to our care and safety.
That young woman might or might not have been fit to reclaim and rehabilitate to 'normal'society...

However give it 5, 10, 15 years..
who knows what she will become, or how dangerous she might be,
if she slips back here in disguise on a mission...???
Or co-ordinates an event from hiding anywhere else in the world...???

..and she is just only one of who knows how many [British IS] in waiting in those squalid camps...
The surviving camp children with British citizenship
will have already been severely damaged by their experience.
Is Javid going to leave them to rot and die, or perhaps become future adult terrorist threats...???

Javid has not really thought through the long term consequences in his bid to be prime minister asap..

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 10:03 AM

But not here.

Subject: RE: BS: Should come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 08:19 AM

If 'Jihadi bride' didn't previously pose a risk to British citizens,
Javid is certainly doing his best to turn a silly misguided brainwashed obnoxious teen
into a potential bitter vengeful 'White Widow' style terrorist monster...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 07:57 AM

Why use birth control with amy of your young wives? Isn't the point to *have* children? Also, the baby died.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM

Stop desreving boy!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 06:47 AM

"Absolutely, and as for her husband - has he not heard of birth control? "
At least this group of "human beings" have support from where they desreve to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 06:27 AM

Poor little girl. Three children dead at the age of nineteen, and no one to help her.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 05:55 AM

Absolutely, and as for her husband - has he not heard of birth control? Obviously not, brains in their pants both of them!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 05:48 AM

Suffer the children - wonder who said that !!!
Thought Nigel was bad enough
The obscene gloating over the plight of young people in dire trouble is as sick as it gets
What a shower of stupid bastards those nut-cases who voluteered their lives and ended them in the mud of Flanders must have been - they should never have been allowed back
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 19 - 05:21 AM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/04/germany-remove-citizenship-isil-volunteers/

Another country showing a bit of sense