BS: The Independent Group (UK politics)

Subject: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:24 PM

Labour Party splinter group.

FWIW not a surprise, given the leadership.

Michael Foot. SDP. History about to repeat itself, it has to, nobody is listening.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:26 PM

Michael Foot is dead, correct?

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:29 PM

Let's see if any of them have the courage to stand for re-election. Highly unlikely I would have thought so we will just have to wait and see how many are still at Westminster after the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:31 PM

yea and he never made it to PM.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 12:39 PM

so we will just have to wait and see how many are still at Westminster after the next election.

given the country's disenchantment with either party there may be a swag of MP's missing come next time.

Blame Brexshit** - it will have to carry the can for a lot of things, like any price rises, shortages, hoarding, short-time working - (Honda announced today) etc.

**And rightly so IMNSHO.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:30 PM

..apart from high profile slick smarmy Chukkles [who's bound to end up in some cushy job of some sort...]..

... who exactly are the other six non entities...????

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:44 PM

Michael Foot was a good guy - highly intelligent, humane, honest and respected. When he lost the election to thatcher it marked a truly sad and significant day in UK history. it was a thoroughly depressing change in attitudes when those qualities could be trashed by the media and the country could choose to go down the path of brash selfishness and idiocy. it's all been downhill since then. Foot rightly said that wealthy people do not need a good government as they will always do alright - while the rest of us rely on it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:47 PM

Absolutely right, Pete. But if you want to hate Foot or Corbyn, all you have to do is read the right "news"papers. You have plenty of choice.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:50 PM

When he lost the election to thatcher it marked a truly sad and significant day in UK history.

Some would beg to differ

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 01:57 PM

Sorry, Pete, clearly I should have said the right "news"papers and other delusional right-wing sources that feed into the confirmation bias of the feeble-minded.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jos
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 02:03 PM

It would be interesting if a few of conservatives now decoded to form a group of independents alongside them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 02:06 PM

Immediately post Michael Foot, we had the panic and rapid yuppiefication of the Labour Party...

Bloody suits and ties and the mindset and values they pander to...

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 02:56 PM

Anti Corbyn the lot of them.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:35 PM

Corbyn is "disappointed" poor chap, more like finished!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:52 PM

i would have hoped that the disappointed 7 would have spent their moment in the limelight attacking this weird and hopeless government and promising to fight alongside their ex-colleagues to be rid of them. surely they must have far more animosity towards the tories than their friends in the labour party who they have worked with for many years. yet they chose the moment when they could do the most damage to the progressive cause and came out with some nasty and divisive shit - for what? who is this behaviour going to benefit? tom watson may be (politically) correct to say we shouldn't call them traitors but it does look that way. 'Tories' would be another appropriate insult

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 03:58 PM

Corbyn is "disappointed" poor chap,

How very sad! I am heartbroken he is only disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 04:26 PM

I reckon Tony Blair might join this lot which should spell curtains with a bit of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 04:37 PM

The only man in Christendom that makes a poisoned chalice utterly redundant!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 19 - 08:10 PM

Well, they didn't belong in the Labour Party, as they have now confirmed. And they had the nerve to object to the mere notion of being expected to seek reselection of sitting MPs.

Whatever happened to the Gang of Four?

Still I imagine once they've lost their seats, and established the Tories in power for another generation, there'll be peerages and we’ll paid sinecure jobs going.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 02:43 AM

Needs to be regarded as Labour's cleaning out of its Augian Stable - long overdue
Any new party they form will be right wing with policies little different than the Tories, and just as they are, made up of career politicians
Any takers who will get the support of the media
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 03:20 AM

Yesterday it was 7! How many by the end of the week?
Perhaps Jeremy should move fulltime to his allotment. There he will do less damage.
I do like to see the Labour party rip itself apart.Fine entertainment!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 03:28 AM

if history repeats itself[ it often does] they are bound for the political wilderness and obscurity

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:20 AM

It's been fascinating to see the shift of attitude towards Michael Foot down the years and compare it to what is happening to Corbyn
While in office, Foot became a figure of fun - "the man who attended Armistice Day in a duffle coat"
When he was driven out of harm's way he became a respected elder statesman - corbyn seems to be going through the same media grinder

I met Foot once - a gentle, kind humanist who dedicated his life to changing society or the better - his son was similarly inclined
Corbyn, although less experienced, has many of the same qualities and, as far as I am concerned, offers the only chance of changing British politics for the better
Both made mistakes - that's what being human is about
It's when rightist scumbags start targeting people like these, yo know they must be doing something right
Why would Corbyn suggest he "move to an allotment" if he didn't threaten to make a difference - surely it would suit the rabid right to have someone as incompetent as they describe him as being at the head of the opposition party
Frightened rats - the lot of them - lets face it, they can hardly hold their own representatives, too busy snapping at each others throats to run a country and totally unable to govern without giving massive bribes to sectarian parties - as examples of dedicated and principled politicians
Let the rats continue to snap and take it as a compliment
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:22 AM

"Why would Corbyn suggest he"
Should read "whhy would they suggest Corbyn...

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:39 AM

i just need to point out that the letter 'e' occurs 3 times in the word 'independent' i'm not sure how long i can contribute to this group that has so little concern for correct spelling. it's only a minor irritation now but when i feel it can cause the most trouble for our hosts i may have to go full troll and chukka my toys out the pram

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:53 AM

Chukka your toys? Surely you should be umunna to such petty irritations by now...

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: KarenH
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:06 AM

Well there seem to be two groups, the independent one and the independant one. Does Latin help us to get the right spelling here?

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: bobad
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:10 AM

It doesn't bode well for Corbyn when even some of his own advisors believe him to be an anti-Semite.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 10:56 AM

Why would Corbyn suggest he "move to an allotment" if he didn't threaten to make a difference - surely it would suit the rabid right to have someone as incompetent as they describe him as being at the head of the opposition party

What is he going to make a difference to?His carrots and onions?

Believe me it does suit to have a buffoon like Corbyn in charge of the opposition.He is as effective as a poodle in a bear baiting contest and presiding over the destruction of his own party.

His fiasco will make a hell of a christmas pantomime in years to come.

Some one mustbe suffering terrible delusions to ever imagine corbyn could ever pose a threat to the Tories. The only threat he poses is to his own party and still they keep him as leader. Rather shows the low caliber of the average labour party member(Those few that are left!)

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 11:11 AM

From Guido. The labour gift thst keeps giving!

https://order-order.com/2019/02/19/labour-mp-suggests-labour-split-group-is-funded-by-israel/

As one aptly quoted:
"Political parties shooting themselves in the foot is nothing new. Using a Gatling gun is novel. Reloading it is remarkable."

Bring on the clowns!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 11:26 AM

i just need to point out that the letter 'e' occurs 3 times in the word 'independent' i'm not sure how long i can contribute to this group that has so little concern for correct spelling. it's only a minor irritation now but when i feel it can cause the most trouble for our hosts i may have to go full troll and chukka my toys out the pram

You don't have to be a capitalist to be irrited by the lack of capitalisation.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 11:29 AM

It's also quite difficult to accommate people who leave bits out of words, Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 11:29 AM

"
You don't have to be a capitalist to be irrited by the lack of capitalisation.
"
Wonder how e e cummins would have fared here
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 12:01 PM

It is an observable reality, regardless of a man's integrity, or aspirations for the community, the message has to be absorbed by the community. It has to be worded at that level.

Michael Foot didn't manage, Ed Milliband struggled.

At the risk of provoking some of this parish - David Milliband was more electable. He seemed to me to have gravitas, as well as the handsome gene of the family.

My worry was that King Boris had the right bait for the public, And he might well re-load his fishing rod. Beware! He is a survivor - until the mess that will hit the fan after April 1st comes home to haunt him.

All The Independant Group will achieve is the gratitude of middle ground. They are the tip of the iceberg, and it will be a cold spring!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM

'dent' or 'dant... don't matter...

here's the most appropriate spelling...

The Independunce Group....

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 01:38 PM

Heh Heh!
https://news.sky.com/story/independent-group-third-most-popular-party-sky-data-poll-11642205

Jack Straw former Home Secretary says:
Corbyn is a security risk!




Oh Jeremy Corbyn.........

and now he has Hatton and Livingstone !
What could go right

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: peteglasgow
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 01:58 PM

sadly, with the way our political system works - there is no room for a principled stand when voting in england. as a comrade put it to me in the pub just now - 'what is the matter with these (7) people - you are either red or blue these days' if you have been voted in by labour voters you have a duty to support labour and our manifesto. it's very simple - do these people really want 10 more years of a tory government? apparently...

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 02:08 PM

How many more defectors do the Indies need asap to consider forming a mutual backscratching partnership with May,
and a possible coalition govt with the tories next election...???

Wonder what ministry Chukkles Ammonia has on top his wish list...???


Troublesome DUP might need to worry about finding themselves made redundant from propping up the tories,
and even more irrelevant in the greater scheme of things...

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM

Hey can we brexit with you guys?

-Virginia, especially Charlottesville

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 19 Feb 19 - 04:11 PM

Chuka Umunna and colleagues may have got their timing wrong, but their aims are laudable. The job of the opposition is to oppose, and particularly to oppose the Tories' destructive brexit agenda. Corbyn seems to have been seduced by the right wing agenda of Len McCluskey, and if he cannot come out and fight brexit with everything he has got, then he should make way for someone who can.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 02:20 AM

An interesting POV from Craig Murray's Blog yesterday.

Inconvenient things, facts, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 03:30 AM

And another one bites the dust!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/corbyn-not-fit-to-be-prime-minister-eighth-labour-mp-has-quit-the-party-905467.

You could not make it up. Heh Heh!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 03:38 AM

exceptional!

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: banjoman
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:14 AM

I have asked this question in a previous thread but not had any response. "Anti Semitic" is a phrase being bandied about in respect of Corbyn but I ask, what is the difference between that and being opposed to the actions of the Israeli government? I feel that to those shouting about anti Semitism there is no difference. To me and many other party members, there blatantly is.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:26 AM

The common response of critics of Israel as "Antisemitic" is in fact an act of Antisemitism
The last clause of the new definition states clearly that it is antisemitic to link the actions of the Israeli Government with the Jewish People
Accusing critics of Israel of doing this does just that
Even the Israeli Minister of Justice has openly stated that critics of Israel are antisemites and described criticism of Israel as "The New Antisemitism"
Jews who criticise the regime are deprived of their Jewishness by being described as "self hating Jews" - some leading Israelis, including an Army General and several ex-directors of Mossad, the Israeli Security Service - are "self-hating Jews"
The term has been manipulated to protect extremist right wing politics - there's a term to define politicians who place their policies above the opinions of the people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:31 AM

I agree banjoman, there are some people, by no means all, but it does seem to include a couple of the MPs in this group, who would like to equate support for the Palestinian cause with antisemitism. To blame all Jews for the actions of Israel, that is antisemitism according to the IHRA definition and this I agree with, but the statements from Berger and Ryan go much further than this.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 06:08 AM

Four of the group are active 'Friends of Israel' and one has business links with the regime - all are ex Blair's babes and boys
As far as Antisemitism is concerned, the safest way to approach the term is to restrict it to denigrating and persecuting the Jewish People
There are other aspects of the new definition that may become impossible to avoid without being labeled antisemitic
Already an army general and two ex Mossad heads have compared Israel's actions to those of The Nazis - as have many Holocaust survivors and their families
Albert Einstein and a dozen of his fellow scientists warned of the possible rise of Fascism in Israel nearly seventy years ago
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Iains
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 06:23 AM

Now Tories are defecting. Two party politics is fast fragmenting.

Gonna be a lot of homeless chickens come the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 07:08 AM

and some of them have clung on to their party (& Brexshit) despite their constituency being pro-remain by quite a margin.

I live in one such. The outgoing MP was pro-remain!

Talk about complexity. All bets are off for a while.

When the blame game kicks-in, Brexshit will be the target. And no MP will be able to good-mouth it in any convincing way. They will lie, they always do. The public won't forget - well not within the 5 year tenancy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Independant Group (UK politics)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 07:15 AM

WHERE ARE THEY NOW, ONE WONDERS ???
Jim Carroll