Review: Beware Amazon

Subject: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 05:45 AM

A well reviewed Tenor ukulele was a good price on Amazon. I have had polite emails with Amazon regarding a discount as packaged items listed ( gig bag etc. ) actually do not get included, says previous buyer. Interesting that within hours the price has gone up over £30, about 20%. A similar thing happened when I looked at wound .017 strings for a bouzouki, £2.50 went up to around £7!! Is this common Amazon strategy? Uke friends have said do shops, but hard to find ones I want to try.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 06:32 AM

Prices on Amazon(marketplace) are set by algorithms.

search 'Amazon prices algorithm'

See, for example : The infinite loop of algorithmic pricing on Amazon

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 07:25 AM

They've been at this sort of trick since they started.

I've never bought anything from them.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 08:30 AM

You have now entered the secret world of Amazon price monitoring...
Keep a close eye several times a day as they often drop crazy low for a few hours or minutes...

The fluctuations are remarkable, no logical explanation - just take advantage of an ineptly run business that makes too much profit..

I regularly buy music equipment for a fraction of normal price.
At best less than a 1/4...

Then as soon as I press buy now, the price zooms back up to stupid high again for the next buyer to follow...

Hint - if you want more than one of an item make sure you buy at the same time at the low price.

Only once ever have I ever been messaged to say that the order will not be fulfilled as it was a mistake.
but that was a 3rd party seller...
Sometimes the system won't let you do it,
but you never know...???

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: beachcomber
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 08:32 AM

Are there no "bargains" to be found then, on Amazon ? books or whatever ?

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 08:38 AM

oh bugger...

Now let's try again in the right order this time...
[I really must get reading lenses one day...]

=======================================================================

"Hint - if you want more than one of an item make sure you buy at the same time at the low price.
Sometimes the system won't let you do it,
but you never know...???

Only once ever have I ever been messaged to say that the order will not be fulfilled as it was a mistake.
but that was a 3rd party seller..."

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 08:49 AM

i constantly get excellent bargains..
and I don't mean "deal of the day"...

Just a mattter of knowing what to look for, patience, and luck...

A bit like monster carp fishing.. or pulling at a Disco...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM

Clearly 'he who hesitates ..... '
I was also offered a pathetic Amazon credit amount to make up for no gig bag etc. if I jumped through numerous hoops - glad in a way they lost me, I'm not after a monster bargain, just a fair deal.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 11:04 AM

I've found it pays to be alert. Amazon was recently asking $7 for a bag of cracked wheat which usually costs around $3. $30 for a knee brace that I bought elsewhere for $20.

Nonetheless, I've bought many things at fair prices. I'm so glad to be able to say goodbye to stores with ugly music.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 11:10 AM

Price algorithms do have their reasons from the sellers' point of view. If you are willing to play the game, all will be happy.

But: one of ten ukuleles from mass production is hopelessly mis-fretted, many others are barely tolerable. If you buy without thorough trying (by someone who knows how to do it), you risk huge disappointments. Particularly fatal if you buy it as a present for a beginner. It is not a question of cheap vs. expensive.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 12:01 PM

Most 99% of music electronic gear, mics, FX pedals, etc I buy from Amazon,
way below usual retail price, are brand new boxed - faultless...

However, nearly every guitar I have bought from Amazon
has some problem.
Leading to suspicions that guitars sold at bargain price as 'brand new' are really distributor's B stock / returns...???

Some guitars have involved lengthy bitter disputes,
but in the end it payed off as determined complaining and negotiation
was eventually resolved by Amazon very much to my advantage.

You need to phone as many times as it takes to find the right sympathetic Amazon customer service manager.
Don't be afraid to hang up on all the other awkward jobsworths...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 01:45 PM

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've not encountered this with Amazon.

I've not made a musical instrument purchase from them and the last 2 musical related purchases I made were for Daddario PB strings. They were as competitively priced as I found anywhere.

A couple of other past music related purchases I can recall were for a Rode M2 and a CAD GXL1200 microphone. A fair while ago but again my memory is that they were at least at the competitive end of the pricing. It's highly unlikely I'd have used them otherwise.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 01:51 PM

(well now I do remember a couple of instrument purchases - presents. A kalimba for mum, a bit of a fiddle to tune initially but nice sounding and a lovely bit of wood and I'd think reasonably priced. And a couple of Hohner harmonicas for a brother - no problems with them)

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 01:55 PM

by ugly music, leeneia,
you mean the Muzak piped into the air in the shop?

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:03 PM

My biggest worry is about buying fakes which may be either useless, or worse still, dangerous, e.g. phone or laptop batteries. I don't necessarily go for the cheapest ("you get what you pay for" as they say). I read numerous reviews, although I know there can be fake reviews.
My first mobile phone replacement battery was described as "genuine" - which it may have been, but definitely not new - probably salvaged from a traded in phone: came wrapped in a small piece of bubble wrap, no original packaging or instructions. It worked only marginally better than the one I was replacing and died after 6 months. The next one I bought was a Chinese replica: paid a bit more: works well, doesn't overheat.
Lap-top battery: got one that was twice as much as the cheapest available, but had excellent reviews, and half the price of one from the computer manufacturer. And it was good: arrived already charged, lasted longer per charge than the original, doesn't overheat either.
But now, after 3 years of use, getting towards the short charge scenario, so looking again for one as good as that one was (but can't find same again.)

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:09 PM

Not boasting, just presenting reality of keeping a watch on Amazon prices..

I've bought sets of CAD & Lewitt mics at bonkers low prices off Amazon...

They must have been aware their system was doing this,
but are making so much profit they don't care...???

I took advantage too much for my own sensible requirements,
so stopped looking for mics.
Just out of interest - today's prices for CAD & Lewitt look 'normal'...

Though searching under "Musical Instruments & DJ" for CAD
is now inexplicably showing a variety of sex toys and bondage products from page 6 onwards...???
Put on your reading glasses if you think you are ordering what looks like a mic on page 7....

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:14 PM

I'll mention that nearly all my purchases are direct from Amazon Prime.
I tend to avoid 3rd party sellers unless the shop is well known,
or the product so cheap, like cheaper than pound shop prices,
I don't worry if it's 'problematic'...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:15 PM

I've definitely seen fake reviews. Series of glowing ones way to good to be true. I think these often involved free samples given away by sellers and had been under the impression that Amazon had at least made some effort to curtail these.

As for reading reviews in general, I try to make a point of going through the negative ones. Some can be nonsensical eg. "item arrived late" or "wrong item supplied" but I do like to try work out where people have had a genuine problem with an item before making a purchase.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:21 PM

I have seen Amazon prices go up because I didn't buy the first time. I didn't buy the second. Their algorithms should learn that some buyers get annoyed when they are taken for a mug.

If the price is controlled by the buyers willingness to buy now, I can wait.

EBay sometimes have a "Make an Offer" button. Tried it once, didn't work. I wasn't greedy, tried about 5% off.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:23 PM

Meanwhile, Amazon has been the most amazing aid to shopping for us, for most people I know and I suspect for the millions who use them for the ease, efficiency and pre sales reviews, not to mention £79 a year getting you next day delivery, a video library next only to Netflix and a surprisingly good selection of streaming music, not to mention books at member only prices etc etc

Guitar strings, picks, cleaning gear, most of my pa gear.

Buying instruments on line from anywhere is Russian Roulette but if it isn’t as described etc, Amazon returns are simple. Download a returns number, take the item sans box if you wish to the collections place (10 mins away for me) and hand it in letting them scan the return code. Next day, money back in account.

Beware them? Before long, it’ll be the only place you can buy your foil hats.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 02:33 PM

The media part is just a menace to us, none of us are interested and the prompts you can get asking you to try are annoying. Useful to me with Prime is that I can share my mother's Prime on my account so we can split the fee 2 ways.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:05 PM

"The media part is just a menace to us, none of us are interested"


Well me and the mrs are very interested - so that's two massively different opinions...

Excellent variety of streaming movies and TV shows in decent HD quality...
and I can listen all over the house as long as I like every day
to all kinds of diverse genres of music...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:06 PM

oh yes, and Kindle..
Mrs punkfolkrocker looks forward to the start of every month
and the choice of free Prime books...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:21 PM

Sure pfr. I'm not trying to suggest others should not be interested. It's just a service in the price that the 3 in this household have no interest in.

Most media use here is what's on tv and (even though this part gets more limited) I am equipped to record 4 simultaneous free to air satellite programs and share that and cds throughout the house via mythtv and DLNA. And Youtube use.

Most common media purchase here would most likely be say an opera dvd or blu ray for Christmas.

It's just the way different households work out.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:34 PM

Jon - fair do's.. no problem..

just some folks here have a deep set ideological/moral revulsion regarding Amazon,
and some just can't come to terms with a world post the discovery of electricity...

Actually I'm surprised they aint been in here yet having a right proper protest...
maybe the've not woke up from afternoon naps and lit their oil lamps and candles yet...?????

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:43 PM

On that, pfr, I can ponder the size and power of Amazon...

But in practice, we use it and have had very few problems.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 03:53 PM

Yeah.. me & the mrs - as progressive as we like to try to be,
unfortunatley we're not well off enough
to afford the luxury of boycotting amazon on principle...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jos
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM

It can be worth making an offer on ebay items, it is up to the seller and some aim high not expecting to get the price they ask. Some will only countenance a small reduction but recently I offered £31 for an item listed at £50 and it was accepted straight away.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 19 - 09:42 PM

Amazon may appear to be a monolithic seller, but it in fact opens the marketplace to lots and lots of smaller sellers, and I would hazard a guess that it is the individuals who are raising prices when they detect interest. I suggest looking at the actual seller's name and ratings and other items for sale. And you can report unethical sellers.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:40 AM

Both Thomann and dv247.com are online retailers that offer no-quibbles 30 days returns: i.e. an item doesn't have to be faulty for you to return it, you might just simply decide you don't like it. Both of them provide a lot of very cheap but often good quality Chinese-made instruments. If I were going to buy a uke and probably start there.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:07 AM

High streets are shrinking, Amazon becomes larger. Good choices, good prices, armchair shopping. This is the future!
No time wasted traveling to shops, no fuel wasted. The range of goods on offer is phenomenal.

If video killed the radio star then amazon trashed the high streets, ably assisted by business rates.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:28 AM

As amazon attempted to market copies of the manifesto of the killer who carried out the New Zealand massacre I intend to give them a wide berth in future
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:47 AM

Read James Bloodworth's 'Hired' and you'll never again use Amazon.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:55 AM

I've never used Amazon as there seems no way of making a one off purchase. They demand I leave them all my details at the mercy of a password.
Thanks for the extra warning.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM

...as I said yesterday...

A lot of us are not well off enough
to afford the luxury of boycotting amazon on principle...

Consumerist boycots are such a sanctimonious middle class form of protest...???

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM

I don't know, pfr. We don't have Sky tv and, personally (not that I buy one - I just look at the dad's daily copies of the "i" and the local EDP) pay for any Murdoch press or for that matter, the Express or
Mail..

Shopping for goods is another matter though and there are other factors. A small local town with limited shops, parking further away from the shops than my mother would walk without a lot of pain and struggling (and of course the cost of parking) and the say 30 mile each way trip into the city centre not being that feasible for any of us.

On line shopping in itself really is a godsend here. Of course that still leaves the question of Amazon but the reality is that we are going to compare prices and the ability get a large number of our purchases from just one place with just one (ok 3, we each have our own) rather than shopping different places, entering card details each time is convenient, etc. Perhaps on my "highest principles", you could rate me as "could do better" but the realities work out otherwise...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:24 AM

(personally wouldn't pay for)

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:49 AM

Jon - I am mostly in accord with your very level headed view on this...

We have no choice but to leave it to First world Governments/Presidents to indulge in punative trade sanctions
against poorer developing regions...

Me and the mrs would only hurt an even worse off family on the other side of the world,
by boycoting their produce...
Just so we could make a show to our liberal peers of our self rightious indigation against tyrannical political leaders,
or 'sinister' global corporations...

Maybe we should boycot everything made in the USA...???

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 10:04 AM

... or UK...?????

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 10:12 AM

You can have my Amazon Prime account when you pry it out of my cold dead hands, if only for the deals I get on used and remaindered books that I couldn't find elsewhere, at least not at an affordable price. I enjoy going into the marketplace having coffee and interacting with folks but I don't enjoy the big loud box stores like WalMart, Target and Best Buy and Amazon makes trips to those places unnecessary. Also I live in a town that no longer has a music store to speak of and have to travel 40 miles north to a Guitar Center if I want to shop in the 3D.
In my numerous purchases from Amazon I've never felt like I've gotten a bad deal, if they don't have the most attractive offering I buy elsewhere on the web.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 10:23 AM

Jim - where's the evidence of that...???

All I can find are refernces to an accusation made by the Times.
But to read that article it looks like I neeed to create an account with that tory bumrag..
which I refuse to do on principle...

[the principle that i can't be arsed...]

If this manifesto is on sale at Amazon I'd be amazed if it was being sold directly by them.
More likely a nasty 3rd party seller,
which should rightfully be reported to Amazon asap for banning and account suspension...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:28 AM

.. and let's not forget Trump and supporters, and allied right wing media,
are engaged in a vindictive war with the man who owns Amazon..
and interestingly/coincedently enough, the newspaper he also owns...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 11:05 AM

..and now I've had enough mugs of strong black tea and am a bit more awake..

instead of "engaged in a vindictive war" I would better express it as...

Trump and right wing cronies "waging a vindictive war against" the man, his newpaper, and business empire/fortune...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 11:17 AM

As amazon attempted to market copies of the manifesto of the killer who carried out the New Zealand massacre I intend to give them a wide berth in future
Jim Carroll

Jim, this would be one of those small vendors I mentioned, NOT the Amazon company itself. And the seller probably got his ass kicked out of Amazon. I did a search just now and found an 8chan shirt suggesting "Mercy and Forgiveness" (Isn't that a mixed message from that group!) and a couple of American gun-rights groups offerings.

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 11:23 AM

Stilly - in this world of crazies and conspiracists...

I wouldn't even be that surprised if the vendor was covertly 'associated' with the Times et al...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 11:43 AM

As amazon attempted to market copies of the manifesto of the killer who carried out the New Zealand massacre I intend to give them a wide berth in future
Jim Carroll

Where to strike the balance?


https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/03/15/uk-tabloids-facing-moral-brand-safety-questions-over-christchurch-terror-video
It is always difficult to strike the right balance between reporting the news and giving publicity to the wrong ideas.

UK tabloids have been criticised for publishing footage of the Christchurch mosque terror atrocity, in which 49 people were murdered, on their websites.

Despite New Zealand police urging the public not to share the "extremely distressing" first-person footage taken by the gunman, who livestreamed his attack on Facebook, The Mail, The Sun and The Mirror all ran excerpts online.
The Mirror claimed it ran no ads with the content. Since this morning, all three publishers have removed the videos.

Social giants YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Reddit were also playing catchup to delete footage and accounts related to the shooter.
BuzzFeed reports that Mail Online hosted an edited version of the shooter’s video, showing him wielding a gun as he entered a mosque - the footage cut before fire was opened. It also hosted and enabled the download of the attacker’s 84-page hate speech manifesto as a PDF. These have since been removed from the site. At the time of publication, it was continuing to use a still image of the shooter entering the mosque.

I will continue to peruse the online tabloids referred to. I do not agree with a lot of the Guardian editorials either, but I still read them(while holding my nose!)

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM

"Jim, this would be one of those small vendors I mentioned, NOT the Amazon company itself"
I'm sure that's true Stilly, but I think the site needs to take responsibility for what it markets
I haven't followed up the story, and if the seller has been dropped, fair enough
Facebook is up to its uxters in problems for what is posted on its site, but fair play to them over this atrocity - they were able to block 2000200 posts before they went on line and have removed as many from their site
I'm not a great user of the social media but it heartens me no end to see them taking this level of responsibility
Jim

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 12:44 PM

"but I think the site needs to take responsibility for what it markets

Jim - What makes you think it doen't already...???

First google stat I found - "There are over 5 million marketplace sellers across all Amazon marketplaces.23 Jan 2019"

.. accurate enough for our puposes...

Any customer - you, me, anyone, can freely report a dodgy product or seller,
and expect a response from Amazon within a reasonable time...
5 million sellers takes some significant effort to police..
can't be the easiest job...

Even good sellers complain that Amazon acts too swiftly and harshly against them
if a buyer makes a false complaint...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 01:05 PM

.. let's put it this way..

out of all the shops remaining open on ghost town British high streets,
how many do we know aren't surviving by selling dodgy goods under the counter,
or pervy services in the back room...???

It's bloody difficult for consumer protection and trading standards
to keep track of all that lot...

However, Amazon is arguably more effective at policing it's sellers
due to automated high tech systems
and approx 300 million customers who can report any product or seller
we can accuse of being problematic...

Subject: RE: Review: Beware Amazon
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM

"What makes you think it doesn't already...???"
I have seen no indication that they have so far but have acknowledge that they might have
Personally, given the nature of this attack I put this manifesto in the same category as a would child porn - the deliberate killing of a child and its parent in NZ made me feel almost physically ill
I would castigate child porn sites - why not this ?
If Facebook can delete film clips before they hit the site, I see no reason why Amazon can't do so over a matter of days

This is a few days old
"Why tech companies failed to keep the New Zealand shooter’s extremism from going viral"
Still, interest is growing. In the 2020 presidential primary race, Democratic candidates have vowed to take on Big Tech — Sen. Elizabeth Warren has gone as far as proposing to break up Google, Facebook, and Amazon, while Sen. Amy Klobuchar is expected to make tech reform a banner issue for her campaign.

A quick search reveals that while on the one hand The Daily mail castigates the shooting, it publishes far too many verbatim quotes from the killer

I thought the extremely dignified and humane statement by the New Zealand Prime Minster who has instantly announced that she will act on gun ownership and declared that she will never mention the name of the killer publicly is the level of response necessary
Jim