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BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?

Donuel 09 Aug 22 - 01:00 PM
Donuel 08 Aug 22 - 03:03 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Aug 22 - 11:36 AM
Donuel 08 Aug 22 - 08:12 AM
The Sandman 01 Aug 22 - 08:04 AM
MaJoC the Filk 31 Jul 22 - 06:42 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Jul 22 - 06:31 AM
Stanron 31 Jul 22 - 06:12 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Jul 22 - 03:17 AM
Donuel 30 Jul 22 - 08:13 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jul 22 - 10:03 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jul 22 - 08:33 AM
Rain Dog 26 Jul 22 - 05:36 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Jul 22 - 04:06 PM
Stilly River Sage 24 Jul 22 - 03:41 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jul 22 - 06:15 AM
Donuel 24 Jul 22 - 06:14 AM
Helen 23 Jul 22 - 08:17 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jul 22 - 08:09 PM
Helen 23 Jul 22 - 07:53 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jul 22 - 05:46 PM
Helen 23 Jul 22 - 05:06 PM
Mr Red 25 Feb 20 - 11:37 AM
Stilly River Sage 17 Feb 20 - 12:00 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 20 - 05:37 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 20 - 05:27 AM
Mr Red 17 Feb 20 - 03:53 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 20 - 05:33 AM
Mr Red 16 Feb 20 - 05:07 AM
Stilly River Sage 15 Feb 20 - 01:01 PM
peteglasgow 15 Feb 20 - 08:40 AM
Mr Red 15 Feb 20 - 08:03 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 20 - 06:44 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Feb 20 - 05:11 PM
Donuel 14 Feb 20 - 04:47 PM
Donuel 14 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM
Mr Red 14 Feb 20 - 04:36 PM
Doug Chadwick 14 Feb 20 - 04:14 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 20 - 02:57 PM
pdq 14 Feb 20 - 02:53 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Feb 20 - 01:54 PM
Iains 14 Feb 20 - 01:37 PM
pdq 14 Feb 20 - 12:54 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 20 - 06:10 AM
Mr Red 14 Feb 20 - 03:50 AM
Iains 14 Feb 20 - 03:36 AM
Mr Red 14 Feb 20 - 03:20 AM
Stilly River Sage 13 Feb 20 - 06:11 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 20 - 06:00 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Feb 20 - 03:35 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 01:00 PM

The destination is obvious, leave the oil in the ground and bite the bullet of limited energy supply as renewables catch up with demand. But the trillion dollars a year that big oil makes is a behemouth that uses its money to control politics and finance. They can pay off every scientist in the world. We can buy time if we sacrifice as India and China catch up and move away from coal, then share the new energy solution that has not yet been invented.

What has been invented is putting enough reflective material in the stratosphere to reflect enough heat and hope to arrive at the proper global thermostat setting. But that diminishes solar collection and undoing the process may prove impossible.

For every tenth degree increase climate extreme events increases by 20%.
Self reliance is our job so
in the meanwhile compost - no fertillizer and no tilling. Keep mycellium alive. Use as little gas as possible. Whether we win or lose we will suffer so suffer as gladly as possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 03:03 PM

I now have options with federal rebates on underground heat pumps, vertical wind mills and solar. Remember Iains, he had a water driven turbine for electricity.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 11:36 AM

The Democrats in the Senate just passed the largest bill that includes $300B to support countering climate change.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 08:12 AM

Talk about climate extremes, Death Valley floods! https://news.yahoo.com/floods-strand-1-000-californias-125314832.html
The US has its 1st climate change bill this week.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 08:04 AM

Whatever the cause we have problems, imo, it is doubtful politicians will solve it. why travel great diastances to discuss it when it can be discussed on or over the phone zoom
peat harvesting has been banned here in ireland, so what happens peat is imported from germany, so extra fuel usage and travel pollution occurs, better if they had allowed restricted peat harvesting in ireland


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 06:42 AM

> all Scientific Knowledge has an 80% chance of being proved wrong
> in twenty years time

Apologies, but I can't let this go unchallenged. All scientific theories are approximations to what people think is The Truth. Theories aren't usually proven "wrong" so much as "not sufficiently right" in the light of new evidence. The classic case is Newton's laws: they're still accurate enough for NASA to use it as-is to launch rockets, but not *quite* accurate enough for the clocks on Sat-Nav satellites (which require a General-Relativity correction to keep in step with groundside clocks).

Oh, and QI is entertainment, lightly leavened with enlightenment. Go not to the comedians for scientific rigour, for they tell both truth and jest.

.... Again apologies: I'm short on minutes (we're going to Eat Out soon), and writing diplomatically is a slow artform.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 06:31 AM

I only said TRYING to get it right, Stanron. And I wouldn't lay much store by stats given out on a quiz show...


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 06:12 AM

"Science has spent thousands of years trying to get it right. Do try to stick with it. "

Even though all Scientific Knowledge has an 80% chance of being proved wrong in twenty years time.

QI fact, of maybe five years ago. So perhaps in fifteen years you might be right.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 03:17 AM

Science has spent thousands of years trying to get it right. Do try to stick with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 22 - 08:13 PM

The 500 year floods are due to the fact the increased temperature so far will hold 4 times as much water so when it used to rain 2 inchs now it can release 8 or 9 inchs of rain.
This week it happened in Kentucky.

- how do we go from here? We will go by fire and flood.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 10:03 AM

Despite how much is taken to recycle bins, a lot of it still goes to the trash. People put the wrong stuff in, they contaminate the stream with food items, etc.

I've resolved to try to buy drinks in only glass or cans; this does mean the boxes they come in will be a lot heavier, but cans and glass are two items that are consistently recycled.

Last year I started buying the paper envelopes with sheets of laundry soap instead of the big heavy plastic containers of laundry detergent. I'm sure it costs more this way, but sometimes that is how it goes. Trouble is, people in low-income situations don't always have the choice, so until more environmentally sound options are available across the board, it isn't going to have a huge affect.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 08:33 AM

Yes they will do, but it means waiting for two weeks between collections and lugging all my stuff up to the local farm by car. Last time, my nice clean bags and bottle box got mixed up and I ended up with an insanitary bottle box. Also, we live in a very windy area, and unless you're obsessively careful the stuff blows around everywhere, including the emptied bags. By the time I've loaded it all in my car I might as well keep going to the dump, and I can take my non-recyclable there at the same time. Oh, the joys of rural life, eh? However, Morrisons is on the way home from the dump so I can kill two birds...


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 05:36 AM

Doesn't your local council collect the majority of your recycling from your home?

I agree that manufacturers could do more to cut down on packaging. They should also aim to produce packaging that can be easily recycled.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 04:06 PM

Well I agree with that. I spent half an an hour this afternoon at the local recycling, posting cardboard, paper, plastic, glass bottles, waxed cartons and a bit of scrap metal into the multifarious separate skips. I reflected on the people who produce all this packaging junk, who force me to have all manner of storage bins at home, after which I then have to expend extremely expensive petrol to get it to the local recycling, a good few miles away. I'm supposed to wash out all my cans, cartons, bottles and the like (with washing-up detergent and expensive hot water). Then I wonder whether the operatives at the local tip don't just send a lot of it to landfill or incinerators anyway. I get home then read about film stars routinely doing seventeen-minute journeys in private jets, each trip generating more carbon than the average person generates in a year. It all makes me feel like a bit of a mug, frankly. Yeah, we should all do our bit. Then you find out that you almost might as well not bother. As I said, we are failing. I feel incredibly sorry for the next couple of generations.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 03:41 PM

Do what you can on a personal level. Who knows - the butterfly effect? (as the hot wind blows all existing butterflies into an abyss that cracks open in the hot pavement)

Guidance would be welcome. There isn't much of it. As long as the banks and lobbyists can get what they want, no one else will really see progress. First thing to help the environment: get the big money out of politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 06:15 AM

Ach, the trade is far too lucrative and Oz depends on it greatly. Maybe if China invades Taiwan and two or three other countries besides, Oz'll be forced to cut the trade with China. Can't see it happening otherwise. Mind you, I hear that China has some issues with it these days, but the temptation to undercut all other steel industries in the world via cheap ore imports must be all but irresistible. And western countries can pretend that they're going all net-zero, whatever the latest con is called, whilst buying cheap steel, toys, clothing and plastic goods from China, all the while tut-tutting at China's burgeoning carbon emissions. Everything I'm standing up in this morning was made in China. My camera, iPhone, the iPad I'm typing this on and the new Swingball Pro I bought yesterday for my grandson, all made in China. We're all in big trouble, aren't we. In spite of all the promises, conferences and target-setting, atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are still rising inexorably year on year. Check the stats.

I wonder whether you can post without making it personal. Just musing. I've seen lots of posts of yours in recent months that I could easily have taken issue with but I've refrained. You could try it it too.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 06:14 AM

Sometimes picturing an ideal and working backwards to to see how to get there works. This could ultimately mean that business would not be the driver of civilization, particularly nature killing business'. Its a big ask but strategies to get to an ideal will be radical and alien to our way of thinking.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 08:17 PM

Your predictions are not normally very accurate so let's wait and see.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 08:09 PM

Australia's lucrative iron ore deal with China was instrumental in making Oz just about the only western nation to avoid the economic meltdown after the 2008 crash. My prediction is that little will change, regardless of who's in power. Self-interest is a powerful motivator.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 07:53 PM

Following the 21 May 2022 federal election, the newly appointed Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, stated that the new Parliament would first meet on 26 July 2022.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 05:46 PM

But is Oz still selling millions of tons of iron ore to China so that China can make cheap steel with huge carbon emissions at massive cost to the environment? Reminds me of other western countries who claim to be reducing emissions whilst China makes most of their goods...

Too much lying, too much cheating, too much virtue signalling, too much hypocrisy. Donuel is right. We won't put this right.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 05:06 PM

For about 1o years, Australia's federal government had the Liberal Party in control and that party is very much in denial about the urgent need for taking action to address climate change.

The issue of climate change was one of a number of important and urgent issues which created a change of government in May 2022. The people have spoken and there is now a government with a majority of Labor Party representatives and a significant number of Green Party and independent representatives in power. The majority of these representatives have made a strong commitment to take proactive actions to address climate change and I believe that the Labor Party and the Greens will work well together to start to play catch-up for all of those years of climate change denial, and hopefully make a strong and positive difference.

I have voted for the Greens for decades, and my second choice on the ballot papers has always been the Labor Party. I fully support whatever action is needed to turn this planet around and start making a positive difference.

It won't happen overnight, and I suspect there will arguments in the government about exactly what the targets should be, but we are now heading in the right direction, in my opinion.

Someone once said that making changes like these are like doing a U-turn in a semi-trailer truck. It's not quick and simple. It's a complicated process and it takes time. But decisions and commitments are being made to make that U-turn.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:37 AM

Sir James will say the "hard truth" is that it may be better for some communities to relocate UK EA Head.

What I have been saying that the EA in the UK have known for years. They are also saying we shouldn't build houses in the flood plain (duh?), but anticipate it will happen so say we should build above the water and use the ground floor for the cars that created this situation.

BBC reports what the head of the UK EA will be saying tonight at a water symposium.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 12:00 PM

It's not that there isn't enough food on the planet, it is that it is unevenly distributed. A lot of it goes to waste in the Western World.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:37 AM

Just to say, by the way, that your humorous allusion didn't escape me...


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:27 AM

It spat fire and warmed the planet.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 03:53 AM

did it spit?


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 20 - 05:33 AM

The last ungulate I tried to rotate wasn't at all happy about it...


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Feb 20 - 05:07 AM

And get ready for when the locusts descend, can we have giant vacuum cleaners sucking in the protein and mincing it into a burger? Make profit from inevitability.

Crazy, but - ya gotta find ways to feed the billions. Mana from heaven with 5 loafs and 2 small fishes ain'ta gonna cut it, PAL!


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 01:01 PM

Rotational grazing can restore land overgrazed in the past. Rotate crops and ungulates and do your property some good.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 08:40 AM

we could set gangs of livestock free - we don't have to eat them. (though i fear this concept would be impossible to understand for our climate change denying capitalist overlords) and if they do their thing effectively they have less chance of being burned en masse. as a (not very consistent) vegetarian it's factory farming that really concerns me.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 08:03 AM

Wake up to this TED talk - How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory

Basically he is advocating livestock. Mimicking what nature did for millions of years.

Large herds for safety in numbers (think buffalo style) where they graze , shitting and pissing on the land (aka manuring). And moving on to pastures new (aka not overgrazing). Locking carbon in the soil which allows grass to grow for next season. Agricultural version of rotation farming?

This guy is advocating, out of practical experience, not just his academic prowess. He shows success stories, but he can't do it for the 50% of the deserts of this planet on his own!

Science (aka from nature) can provide solutions, but vegans and veges won't like the answer!


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:44 PM

You have to tell people that a battery will reliably take them four or five hundred miles, summer and winter, and that you can recharge at tens of thousands of places in five minutes flat, without queueing. If you can't persuade, you'll have to use force. We can't persuade people to turn thermostats down by one degree, or to stop buying things in plastic bottles. We have a job on, don't we?


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:11 PM

Mr Red - Plan for future mass public transport starting with consideration for folks
who can't walk..


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:47 PM

Steve there has been a great breakthrough in the manufacture of electric cars. It replaces all the expensive materials including platinum for mere pennies.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM

Doug that sounds like smelly air pollution to me

The syncopated
cosmic drumph beat
in the universe
stretches and squeezes
our soul and being.
It takes silence
for deniers to rule.
They are full of stool
And True to tell
they have a smell
Even Light years
away from hell


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:36 PM

and other public transport provision... Shank's pony not good enough, huh?

I have been lucky to be able to walk to work for maybe 10 of my work years, off and on. But things outside your control can change, as well as personal ambition. It does set you up for the day, and wind you down again.

Meanwhile the Environment Agency are toughening us up with scares stories like this Coastal floods warning in UK as sea levels rise, but it has that inevitability the simple stats should tell you. Changing onset of spring, record temperatures. Who gives a fuck arguing about the causation, the sea level is rising, year on year, and there is no inflection in the curve of the rises. If the sea don't get us, the hot summers will, or some bastard child of COVID-19.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:14 PM

You have hit on something there, Steve. Burning climate change deniers at the stake could provide a renewable source of energy.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 02:57 PM

Denial on this topic marks you out as evil. Nothing less.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: pdq
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 02:53 PM

Sorry about the error but 4% is 100 times larger than 0.04%, not 1000 times.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 01:54 PM

Just be glad I'm not absolute ruler of Britain,
because I'd phase out current petro/diesel vehicles
and place strict limits on the numbers of privately owned electric replacement cars...

The future must be heavily biased towards local Bus networks
and other public transport provision...


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 01:37 PM

@ pdq. according to the IPCC (Source: Figure 7.3, IPCC AR4).
The anthropogenic component of the 0.04% CO2 in the atmosphere is 3.7%.
The estimate is of dubious validity, as is some of the proxy data bandied about as the word of God.

There are a vast number of unknowns and climate models are inaccurate.
Making definitive statements about what may or may not happen on the basis of such dubious data makes no sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: pdq
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 12:54 PM

The official US government number seems to be 412 parts per million CO2 from all causes. We can call that 0.04%.

Atmospheric water vapor varies but is usually said to be 4-5% at most. Lets go with 4%.

That sugests that H2O is 1000 times more abundant than CO2 and probably 1000 times more important as a “greenhouse gas.”

Most scientists question the accuracy of this type of data (such as temperature) that dates from before 1850. Before 1780 it is worthless. People who claim to know the atmospheric CO2 level 2 million years ago surely lie about other stuff too.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:10 AM

Mr Red, re my post on batteries and your response. Not for a second was I suggesting that avoiding the inconveniences of limited range and recharging time trumps the need to change our behaviour. I am suggesting that those inconveniences (plus the expense of battery cars) are major obstacles in persuading people to change. Governments can force people to change, of course, by setting unrealistic time scales (end of austerity by 2015, anyone?), and once they force us all to buy battery cars there'll be another inconvenience, this time for petrol drivers in their bangers, in that it'll get harder and harder to find petrol stations. But governments forcing major changes on people tend to make themselves very unpopular...


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:50 AM

Does 4 parts per million of anthropogenically generated CO2 really have the impact suggested?

First justify the claim. The figure being banded about is a doubling of CO2, compared to pre-industrial levels. How near are we currently? Very!
Pre-industrial life sustained globally for at least 2 million years of primates burning trees to cook food, shows climate change indistinguishable from natural changes caused by (take yer pick): magma release/ash, earth's orbit variations, solar flares and (other).

4 ppm refers to IQ IMNSHO


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:36 AM

The Aleutions and adjacent landmass are actually sinking. It always helps to unite cause with effect, rather than hysteria.
The Pacific tectonic plate rubs against the North American plate, giving rise to the San Andreas and Denali strike-slip faults. In southwestern Alaska, those two plates meet head on, and the Pacific plate sinks beneath the North American plate. In this subduction zone, some of the ocean plate melts and the molten rock pushes to the surface in a string of 40 active volcanoes, forming the Aleutian Islands.


Catalina Island off California has sunk each decade for more than a million years by at least two millimeters, according to research by Stanford Uni.
The UN had been premature in declaring the villagers on Tegua (Solomons) to be climate change refugees when a large earthquake caused the island to shoot back out of the water in 2009. That island sank nearly 12 centimeters (five inches) between 1997 and 2009
Vanikoro, also in the Solomons, is sinking by seven millimeters (0.3 inches) a year.Earthquakes and tsunamis strike Vanikoro regularly, but people here are at the mercy of the forces of nature in a longer-term way, as well: On its slowly sinking course, the Australian Plate is dragging Vanikoro along into the depths.
Further confusing the issue is the fact that "sea level increase" is not uniform. It is reputedly higher in the Pacific. Like most inhabitants of the South Pacific, those of Vanikoro must contend with sea-level fluctuations of some 20 centimeters (eight inches) caused by currents in the Pacific, such as the climate phenomenon called El Niño.
CO2 represnts 0.04% of the atmosphere and the anthropogenic component of that 0.04% is reckoned to be 0.4%

Does 4 parts per million of anthropogenically generated CO2 really have the impact suggested? . Water vapor varies by volume in the atmosphere from a trace to about 4% and is also a potent greenhouse gas.
Do the maths. CO2(Human) 4 parts per million
             Water Vapour up to 40,000 parts per million

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Third Assessment Report suggests that MSL may rise by approximately 50 cm in the next 100 years, and that regional meteorology may also change, which would affect the magnitude and frequency of storm surges
I may win the lottery. That is not science, it is not even worthy of being labelled a forecast.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:20 AM

Battery power has a bloody long way to go to match that.

Early days. John B Goodenough gave us the Lithium-Ion battery that made this debate possible, a mere 30 years ago. And at 95 he still heads-up the team trying to go beyond Cobolt on Lithium. But Tesla claim 400 miles - is your 600 mile journey really necessary? A 30 minute break re-charging the car and YOU is very wise counsel.

If we are to divorce ourselves from carbon fuel we must find alternative portable power. Electricity has the momentum, we need it NOW. New Scientist points out that using electricity for hydrolysis is not viable without acres of PV. It is doable at the point of delivery where the acreage is available - say private rooftops - but at realistic levels it would not deliver sufficient on-demand for a busy urban station. Use electricity from the grid? What is that made from?

All of this points us to the possibility that we will have to consider favouring traveling in daylight hours &/or when the wind is blowing. Or get stranded in strange towns. Like I say, science has solutions, we may not like the answers.

One novel mass storage solution seen involves heavy rail wagons driven uphill (by electricity) during daylight/windy days. And let downhill when recovering the stored energy by generating electricity and storing on batteries on each wagon. In future iterations the battery boxes will turn sideways at the top and bottom to maximise parking area. The company claim 95% ability to recycle the whole system at the end of life.

prototype is the second picture


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:11 PM

The Maldives are islands that seem to be shifting and sometimes growing - lucky for them there is room for that dynamic activity - but Alaska natives are moving their homes on the Aleut and mainland shorelines because of the rising sea level eroding the land. Scientists may not have got them all right, but they're more correct than wrong, and a lot more accurate than your misinformation sources. The Arctic Institute.


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:00 PM

There are two blind guys here, Donuel. The demented Iains and you. You are blind when you refer to "you guys." There is only one guy posting here who denies anthropogenic climate change. The rest of us don't care to be insulted by your bracketing us with him. Especially him. Knock it off, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:35 PM

Do we have time left to block off the Bristol channel between Wales and Scrumpyshire
before we return to pre land reclamation waterscapes..

Or is it not worth thinking about new downstairs carpets...???


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Mudcat time: 10 August 12:25 PM EDT

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