BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:57 AM

Noam Chomsky’s opinion of the Tories’ ‘Anti-semitism’ smear campaigns.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:58 AM

Labour is currently unveiling a number of proposed measures in its "race and faith manifesto", including:

    Changing the law to include attacks on places of worship as a specific aggravated offence

    Working with social media firms to combat the rise of anti-Semitism online

    An independent review into the threat of far-right extremism and how to tackle it*

    Reviewing the national curriculum to ensure it teaches about racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, xenophobia and black history, and to continue education about the Holocaust

    Ensuring coroners services meet the needs of faith communities, with "out of hours" services to ensure quick burials when required, allowing some Jewish and Muslim families to bury loved ones in accordance with their religious practice



*Note the absence of an independent review into the threat of far-left extremism and how to tackle it........any guesses as to why?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:59 AM

Apart from that Labour must emphasise how they are going to right the wrongs of the last ten years. Plenty of meat on that bone...

Here is a starter for 10!
Britain’s Chief Rabbi has taken the unprecedented step of describing Corbyn as not fit for high office.
Naturally, Corbynites have responded by calling Mirvis a supporter of Netanyahu, a Boris supporting Tory and a Mossad agent. Even worse, they accuse the chief Rabbi of being “a Zionist”!
and

The largest single donor to Milani’s ‘Make History and Banish Boris Johnson’ GoFundMe page is a woman by the name of Hilary Wise. Readers may remember Wise, who has donated hundreds of pounds to Milani, as the activist who ranted on stage at Labour conference about anti-Semitism claims being smears orchestrated by the Israeli embassy:

Wise has also:

    Signed a petition to expel Labour Friends of Israel from the party
    Signed a petition to disaffiliate the Jewish Labour Movement from      the party
    Signed a petition to have the Charity Commission remove charitable status from the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism
    Claimed Israel releases hyenas in the Jordan Valley to attack Palestinian communities

Milani keeps trying to say he is a reformed character and has moved past his 9/11 truther, pro-armed struggle, anti-Jewish antics.
Will he return the donations?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 08:03 AM

And a response by Julia Bard, well worth reading, and making far more sense than Ephesians Mir is’ s nonsense...

”Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis, who claims without any basis, to speak for British Jews, has attacked the Labour Party yet again. Using terminology that has historically been associated with extreme right-wing politics, he claims that "a new poison" has taken hold of the party.
This General Election is a two-way fight. To attack Labour is to promote a Tory Party that has formal links with far right, openly antisemitic, anti-Islamic, anti-Roma and anti-refugee groups and parties in Europe, such as the Polish Law & Justice Party, Victor Orbán in Hungary, the Sweden Democrats and others.
Our own Conservative party is led by a person who unashamedly and unapologetically uses racist and homophobic language. He has referred to black people as "piccanninies with water melon smiles", to Muslim women as resembling "letter boxes" and "bank robbers". He has ridiculed gay men as "bum boys in tank tops". And the Tory Party in government has inflicted untold suffering through the Hostile Environment and the Windrush scandal.
Mirvis is not a neutral commentator: he is a close friend of the previous Conservative Prime Minister, who he invited for dinner with her husband the night before she took office.
He has not been elected by anyone. He represents one branch of religious Judaism. He does not speak for Jews who are more religious, less religious or not religious at all. Rabbis are supposed to be teachers and moral leaders. This one seems to have gone badly astray.“

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM

‘Ephesians Mir is’??

WTAF.? Bloody sodding predictive text? EPHRAIM MIRVIS!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM

Magic grandad one hour late for school today. I guess he did not want the photo opportunity below. The truth hurts!


https://order-order.com/2019/11/26/labour-empty-chair-corbyn/

Guido on the ball, as usual!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 09:31 AM

Such a shame that the Liar-in-Chief and his bunch have so little to offer in the way of policies that they feel the need to resort to smears.

But, when smears are all you have, I guess needs must...

.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM

Well anyway, I guess it’s fair to say that what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 12:55 PM

Hardly smears! Irrefutable facts!
Check for yourself.


https://order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Mainstream-AS-release-final.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 01:48 PM

WE do check for ourselves...

That's why we can see through the hostile strategic attacks on Labour...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 01:54 PM

It's tory supporting puffed up spiteful little pricks like Mirvis
who could almost put me off proudly identifying with my own Jewish DNA family roots...

He must surely know how much he contributes towards stirring up anti Jewish resentment,
in our worsening divisive polarised political milieu...

What a nasty little man...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 01:59 PM

" Signed a petition to have the Charity Commission remove charitable status from the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism"

That sounds nasty doesn't it? But you can"t always judge organisations by their name.
The priority of that one is trying to shut down criticism of Israel, and in a Sky News interview a spokesman advocated "weaponising" antisemitism as the way to get rid of Corbyn from public life.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 02:59 PM

Neil takes no prisoners.
Absolute car crash of interview.
Predictable....but I can see no way back from that.

We'll have to see what he does to Boris.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 03:10 PM

A quote from a Jewish author on another forum - not sure about giving his identity away, so you’ll just have to take my word for it that this quote is absolutely verbatim...

”Has the Chief Rabbi expressed concern over Boris Johnson's time as editor of the Spectator, when he was editing the raving antisemite Taki? Has he commented on Johnson's silence over Rees-Mogg's antisemitic jibes (calling Letwin one of the 'illuminati', and using the Soros slur) ,retweeting a tweet from the Alternative für Deutschland, , hanging out with the far-right Traditional Britain Group? Or Johnson's congratulations of the election of Orban in Hungary - someone who again uses the Soros trope in order to flag up hostility to Jews?”

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 04:05 PM

Looks like magic grandad has joined the dementors and will be consigned to Azkaban. A far better destination for him than No 10!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 04:18 PM

The car crash was organised. Neil's brief was clearly to stop Corbyn from speaking for more than four seconds. No topic seen as a Tory weakness was allowed. No NHS, no social care, no schools, no social justice. Let's not forget who Neil is. Tory researcher. Tory adviser to Thatcher (he told her to nationalise and deregulate like mad). Murdoch acolyte and editor of the Sunday Times for over ten years. Worked for Sky at its outset, Fox, the Daily Mail and the Barclay brothers. HIV/Aids denier. Climate change denier. The BBC is supposed to be neutral. The fact that it can even begin to consider employing this charlatan is a bloody disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 04:23 PM

What did he expect - the bloke from the next allotment asking about his sprouts?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Stanron
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 04:28 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Neil's brief was clearly to stop Corbyn from speaking for more than four seconds

Four seconds of not answering the question.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 04:40 PM

Corbyn dealt with Neil extremely well. I don't think being continually interupted constitutes a car crash by any means. Neil tried to trap him into apologising for something there is no evidence for, and he, reasonably politely, declined.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 04:53 PM

Yes he did, David. Dignity retained, unlike Neil, who was positively rabid. And the two posts previous to yours demonstrate beautifully how the public can be deluded by a populist right-wing media puppet who cares nothing for shedding light but everything for trying to trash their adversary at all costs. The interview was totally pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 05:20 PM

Well let us see how much dignity compo has post Dec 12th. More like Dignitas I suspect!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 05:34 PM

Neil is so rabid and so extreme, and so hopelessly biased that I cannot comprehend my a supposedly reputable broadcaster aiming for balance would employ him.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 05:42 PM

”Neil is so rabid and so extreme, and so hopelessly biased that I cannot comprehend my a supposedly reputable broadcaster aiming for balance would employ him.”

Why do you assume that the BBC is a ‘reputable broadcaster aiming for balance’, when all the evidence is that they are the Official Mouthpiece of the Conservative Party?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 05:44 PM

i thought Corbyn dealt wth a hostile aggressive interviewer very well

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 01:12 AM

Mirvis, Neil, no surprises...
..and even worse to be expected as deperate tory dirty tricks intensify.....

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 02:39 AM

Henceforth Compo will be known as car crash Corbyn, the man who would be pm, to be consigned to te dustbin of history..

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 02:43 AM

For the same of balance the BBC should now get Owen Jones to interview the greased albino piglet :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 04:55 AM

Corbyn's main problem is his supporters, who keep telling him he doesn't have any problems apart from the wicked media.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:23 AM

Al - I'm not a 'Corbynite'.. i don't go in for hero worship
or cult of personality.

The truth is, it doesn't matter who the labour leader is,
what they believe, or what they say...
The tories will use all their wealth, power, mass media,
and international far right network,
to make it impossible for Labour to win...

No matter how many millions needed to finance their dirty tricks campaign...

Jesus Christ himself could come back to lead Labour
and the tory press would dig up / make up dirt on what he got up to in his 20s...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:10 AM

Spot-on, pfr.

And here’s Another Angry Voice’s View on Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis’s own antisemitic position...

”Boris Johnson's supporter Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis absolutely doesn't speak for the entire Jewish community what he tries to influence the outcome of the general election by attacking Jeremy Corbyn, despite the Tories having far more antisemites in their ranks, and two prospective Tory MPs currently suspended for Holocaust denial and spewing anti-Jewish vitriol.

In fact, anyone who tries to make out that Jews are some kind of hive mind who speak with one pro-Tory, anti-Labour voice is being antisemitic themselves, because they're denying voice to huge numbers of Jewish people who favour social justice, public ownership, and investment in our nation's future, over widening inequality, profiteering privatised monopolies, and austerity extremism.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:41 AM

Nevertheless some Labour leaders succeeded.

I can remember an old series on TV called The Defenders about a father and son , defence counsel team in America.

E. G. Marshall played the father.

One week he had this argument with his son, who was raging about some flagrant injustice.
EG said - Its no use screaming at the law's injustice. The law is a machine, you must engage with it. Take it on , on its own terms.

I feel the same about these left wing Labour leaders...Foot, Kinnock, and now Corbyn.
They don't engage with politics - they just prat about.

Wilson, Smith, Blair....you could actually smell the tory fear.

You notice - I left out Callaghan. Whose election defeat was almost entirely due to the very people who are Corbyn's mates. Callaghan never got to make a single electioneering speech - they disrupted every single Labour meeting.

They brought in 18 years of tory rule and Mrs Thatcher. I think they will achieve something of the same next month.

Its okay. But the people at the bottom of society suffer under tory rule. Its serious stuff - and if you're taste is for histronic fucking about, rather than the acqisition of power - you have your champion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:49 AM

Oh yes.. the past.. learning from history is one thing,
but over-dwelling on it aint much use
in 2019,
the internet age of political disinformation and ruthlessly more effective divide and rule...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:02 AM

PFR - the leopard can't change its spots.

The trots see their purpose in life as dicking about and keeping Labour in opposition - so they are unencumbered with the practical considerations.

They have such fun.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:08 AM

Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis, who claims without any basis, to speak for British Jews, has attacked the Labour Party yet again. In a deliberate attempt to undermine the Labour Party’s announcements of wide-ranging strategies to support minorities who have suffered so badly under the Tories, and using terminology that has historically been associated with the extreme right, he claims that “a new poison” has taken hold of the party.


This General Election is a two-way fight. To attack Labour is to promote a Tory Party that has formal links with far-right, openly antisemitic, anti-Islamic, anti-Roma and anti-refugee groups and parties in Europe, such as the Polish Law & Justice Party, Victor Orbán in Hungary, the Sweden Democrats and others.

Our own Conservative party is led by a person who unashamedly and unapologetically uses racist and homophobic language. He has referred to black people as “piccanninies with water melon smiles”, to Muslim women as resembling “letter boxes” and “bank robbers”. He has ridiculed gay men as “bum boys in tank tops”. And the Tory Party in government has inflicted untold damage on the lives and futures of members of minority communities through the Hostile Environment and the Windrush scandal.


Mirvis is not a neutral commentator: he is a close friend of the previous Conservative Prime Minister, who he invited for dinner with her husband the night before she took office. Though he claims to be challenging racism, he has never, to my knowledge, joined Jewish anti-racists on demonstrations alongside other vulnerable groups challenging the frightening rise of all forms of racism, including antisemitism, that we have seen over the last few years.

He writes as though Jews are a people apart from everyone else, rather than celebrating our part in the fabric of a wonderfully diverse society, living, working and campaigning alongside and in solidarity with others. Instead of representing the majority of Jews who use and often work in the public services on which we all depend, he throws in his lot with the Tories who have wreaked such destruction on our NHS, our schools, our welfare system and the infrastructure of our country.

He has not been elected by anyone. He represents one branch of religious Judaism – Britain’s 62 Orthodox synagogues. He does not speak for Jews who are more religious or less religious than him, or not religious at all. Many thousands of us are members and supporters of the Labour Party precisely because of its determination to heal the rifts that have been created by an increasingly extreme Conservative Party. Labour’s politics are predicated on the need to encourage, respect and value everyone, and particularly to support black and minority ethnic people, who have to navigate a system that demoralises and undermines them throughout their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM

The right wing press have certainly worked their magic on you, Al. Things have moved so far to the right you see anyone left of Ghengis Khan as a communist.

Try a piece of sensible reporting for a change.

Jeremy Corbyn - A mainstream social democrat

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM

Arrgh, apologies for that unattributed extract: thought I'd hit the preview button but I hadn't. It was from a piece in the London Economic by Julia Bard, who is Jewish. It says precisely what I think so I'll let it speak for itself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM

I posted Julia Bard’s piece yesterday, Steve! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:27 AM

And God-botherers should keep out of our politics. Religion and politics are an especially toxic mix.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:34 AM

Callaghan's election defeat was down to the fact that he made the cardinal error of not calling the election before the winter, when most of us expected he would and should have. Instead, we had rubbish piling up and bodies unburied all in a freezing cold winter (struggled to get my first-born home from the maternity hospital on New Year's Eve through the snow and spent hours shovelling snow out of an old lady's unfelted loft the same evening). Then we had crisis, what crisis (yes, I know...) as he stepped off a plane. Then there were dodgy on-off dealings with the ever-murky, ever-Tory, ever-opportunistic, ever morally-expedient (as they still are). In the NUT we had spent years in the seventies fighting Labour education cuts, massive class sizes and compulsory transfers of teachers. Don't blame working people for losing elections, ever.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:37 AM

Ah, shit, John, and I'd read it as well! I thought I'd seen some of her sayings somewhere before...Old age, mate! Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:41 AM

Continual reference to greased albino piglets shows the left reverting to type. Nothing sensible to say so resort to insults. As pathetic as car crash compo.
It must be past time to send him off to the accompaniment of Red sails in the sunset. His car crash is mutating into a train wreck of epic proportions! Not even Casey Jones could save him now.

https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/corbyns-redacted-negotiation-documents-dont-mention-nhs/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:41 AM

No problem Steve - so good, it definitely bears reading again!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:44 AM

I agree about God-botherers. What especially stinks about the latest effusions from them is the sheer partiality of their comments. They might as well stand on a soapbox and shout to the world that we should all vote Tory. For a lying, incompetent, misogynistic, homophobic, morally-lax, racist Trump-puppet. They don't deserve the platform they're privileged to have merely by dint of believing in fairies and they certainly shouldn't be abusing it in the way they're currently doing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:46 AM

Amazing how some people are so unaware of their own irony, innit! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:46 AM

‘Greased Albino Piglet’ is the name given to him by his fellow Eton pupils. Nothing to do with the left reverting to type’, everything to do with nasty toffs.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:59 AM

Iains is trying his best,
but what this thread needs is the highest level of anti-labour bonkers nonsense
that only dear old Keith could bring to us...

He must be so frustrated not to be alive and posting at mudcat right now...

Lifes so unfair like that...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:04 AM

The NHS is not a single object to be sold or not sold. It is a composite that can be sold over time in various ways, such as by extension of patent times which is in the documents, or reducing services in a way that obliges people to go private.

I came across a BMI Healthcare article which starts "Almost two thirds (65%) of people on Britain are not aware that some medical procedures are no longer available to them on the NHS'. (The only reason I don't link to it is that it is is basically a sales pitch for private healthcare.) But there are others: 17 "unnecessary procedures" were dropped by NHS England in June 2018. And so on. If there was some tiny corner tiny corner kept as free at the point of use (and after all, you can make the case that private health insurance is as well) does not mean the rest of the NHS has not been sold.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:38 AM

I can remember one of the trots saying to me, tories and labour....it like a choice between clap and vd. Only communism will sort out this country.
That's where their heads are at.

Still - either you're right, or I am.

We'll soon find out.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 09:00 AM

All I know about 'trots' is the packet of imodium I just got through...

It seems the only folk I ever hear uttering the words 'communist' 'trots' 'stalinism'.. etc...

.. are right wingers obsessed with the paranoid hysteria they are still living in a 1950s cold war...

I've never been a labour party member,
so stand to be corrected if they all call each other comrade,
while swigging vodka, making molotovs, and singing red army marching songs...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 09:25 AM

The effort to brand moderate and sensible policies as far left extremism seems to have taken in an awful lot of people. The link Dave gave a few posts back at 7:11 to a piece from a Norwegian perspective puts it well - here's a quote from it:

Mr Corbyn’s policy-platform, particularly in regard to his domestic policies are largely identical with the Norwegian Labour Party manifesto. Railway nationalisation, partial or full state ownership of key companies or sectors, universal healthcare provisions, state-funded house-building, no tuition fee education, education grants and loans to name but a few, enjoy near universal support among the Norwegian electorate, in fact, they are so mainstream that not even the most right-wing of Norwegian political parties would challenge them.