BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM

Rebecca Long-Bailey, Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips, Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry all secured enough votes from their Labour colleagues to make the cut.
Not an original thought off any of them. The wilderness beckons!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM

”I don't know why you bother following the links, BWM. You know it's going to be a bag of shite!”

Shitz ‘n’ giggles, Dave! I get some good laughs reading his undisguised, nonsensical Extreme Right Wing propaganda, and considerable amusement seeing who’s soft-enough in the head to set any store by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:31 AM

But the gnome knows in his heart of hearts the links are absolutely correct.
If there is no change, shortly there will be no labour. As sure as night follows day. NO possibility of denial for you I am afraid. The electorate has spoken and as a result Labour is a pale shadow of its former self. Entirely self inflicted as well. Boris is unassailable!
ain't life great?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:13 AM

I don't know why you bother following the links, BWM. You know it's going to be a bag of shite!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:08 AM

"As Brian Wilson said: "There is a chance for Labour if we listen. Another dud leader and it could be all over""

Probably not one of The Beach Boys most memorable surfing songs...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:04 AM

"As long as you're prepared to pay those who voted to leave for any benefits you receive, and when the apocalypse foretold by the Remain supporters fails to come true."

errmm... no.. no.. no..

It is the primary default job of all politicians and their advisors to maintain and try to improve
the living conditions of all citizens in our nation..
Not just those who voted for them...!!!

Nigel - I won't expect brexiteer fanatics to ever take any responsibility if their dream turns to long term nightmare
for our economy and ordinary citizens.
Brexiteer zealots will always find ways to shift the blame to anyone but themselves
for a disaster they caused...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:48 AM

Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:24 AM Hilarious!
as is:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/12/long-bailey-think-labour-lost/

Good old Guido has his finger on the pulse, enumerating labour's continuing insanity.

As Brian Wilson said: "There is a chance for Labour if we listen. Another dud leader and it could be all over"

I recommend they listen to the electorate rather than their deluded selves.
Any more for the oblivion express?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:24 AM

”Naturally therefore with their desire to win back former heartlands, Labour’s NEC last night announced their leadership husting locations – namely: not a single one in......the North West

Liverpool, 18th January
Durham, 25th January
Bristol, 1st February
Cardiff, 2nd February
Birmingham, 9th February
Glasgow, 15th February
London, 16th February”

The criminal, drunk-driver, Right-Wing Extremist Staines demonstrating once again what a dense, ill-educated cock he truly is. He should have spent more time paying attention in his school geography classes....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_England

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:08 AM

A gem from Guido
https://order-order.com/2020/01/13/labour-mps-slam-party-hustings-locations/
and another
https://order-order.com/2020/01/13/rayner-compares-northern-accent-black/

Does Labour hate Mondays more than Bob the boomer?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:51 AM

Sorry for the duff HTML. Only the first line of my last post should be italicised.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM

It appears that remainers rely on the "Jim Bowen school of economics"

The vast majority of economists, industry captains and political pundits agree that leaving the EU will cost us money. Which school of economics do you rely on, Nigel? The Rupert Murdoch institute? The Daily Mail academy? The Hogwarts school of making unicorns appear? We have been asking for three and a half years now for you to give us some details of anyone, who knows what they are talking about, saying that we will benefit. All you offer are tired platitudes about it all turning out ok. Eventualy.

Even other leave posters on here have said that we will suffer financially at first but it should get better. Yet they will not put a time limit on that. How about you doing that? When will we, the ordinary people, start to benefit financially? How long will it take to make up for the initial losses suffered?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:27 AM

You have some catching up to do alresdy, Nigel
Cost of voting leave (link to Independent)

That is an opinion of how much we may have lost due to missed sales/growth. It is not really something which has any method of proof. It is also rather old news (April 2019) and talks about the damage being caused by uncertainty over what will happen. We now have a clear leaving date, and a Parliament in which the influence of those trying to prevent us leaving has been virtually removed.
"A week is a long time in politics", nine months even more so.

It appears that remainers rely on the "Jim Bowen school of economics": "Let's see what you could have won".

Where (after the initial referendum) we were able to compare the UK economy with the pre-referendum scare stories of remainers, we could clearly see them for what they were.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM

Marr on Sunday has some stunning interviews. It would appear Labour Leader front runners are convinced the electorate were wrong and they are right. Arrogance and abject stupidity guarantee that as a party Labour are finished. Time and numbers are not on thornberry's side to even make it onto the shortlist. Obviously the tories are by no means alone when it comes to detesting her. A Labour split is the only way to salvage a viable opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 02:44 AM

You have some catching up to do alresdy, Nigel

Cost of voting leave

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 07:44 PM

From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:09 PM
Whichever side lied the most...
Let's see if me and mine get better or worse off in the coming years...???
As long as Brexiteers are prepared to apologise
and reimburse us for any losses their obsession causes us....

As long as you're prepared to pay those who voted to leave for any benefits you receive, and when the apocalypse foretold by the Remain supporters fails to come true.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:20 PM

something that is never mentioned in this debate is peace. peace between nations and peace and respect between englsh people. the whole thing is crazy - there is no real reason to rip up any reason to co-operate between us. if there was you might have told us by now. just relax, light a spliff and think - what the fuck was i thinking? it's all totally unnecessary, innit? really?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:09 PM

Whichever side lied the most...

Let's see if me and mine get better or worse off in the coming years...???

As long as Brexiteers are prepared to apologise
and reimburse us for any losses their obsession causes us....

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 02:55 PM

`Workingtonman it seems to me that you are the one, among many, who was sold an untruth, or a series of untruths, and are not yet able to admit it. When you are I will be willing to accept a pint from you with no hard feelings at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 02:13 PM

come on you leaver types, admit it - you were sold a stupid lie and you bought it. again. you can't remember why it was supposed to be a good idea but you feel you have to carry on the pretence. it's hard to pretend you don't care about your kids (and mine)and their friends and are longing to reconnect. let it go.....you can be a good, positive person again. just buy your nearest remainer in the pub a pint...a wee apology...and we can forget all this nonsense ever happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:42 AM

The main difference between Boris and his dad is that one is a bumbling younger idiot and the other is a bumbling older idiot.
Both are very useful idiots, whereas compo is a useless idiot, and useless by any other metric, other than losing.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 08:07 PM

The main difference between Boris and his dad is that one is a bumbling younger idiot and the other is a bumbling older idiot. The star of Any Questions by a long chalk was the lovely Ash Sarkar. I was utterly bloody amazed at the positive reception she got in Lanson town hall. Lanson is not exactly known for its leftie sentiment (it's about 15 miles down the road from me and I'm there most weeks, mainly for Tesco and Specsavers), and it's solid Tory country these days, but she was cheered to the rafters more than once for her clear-sighted, balanced and articulate - and succinct - contributions. Ash is a Marxist-communist, which I am not (never read any Marx in my life), but she was the shining star on that otherwise tawdry panel. And I have a couple of beefs with Chris Morris, who, until now, I'd thought was sort of OK...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 11:53 AM

WE can always hope the tories get caught out and exposed again
for serious corruption and depravity scandals...
[Despite all their anticipated damage limitation media cover ups]..

Another one's due fairly soon.....

It's not an unrealistic expectation, which Labour would benefit well from...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 11:32 AM

Does anyone really care how compo voted? He is now consigned to the dustbin of history, thrust into the compost bin on his allotment to wither away like the rot he tried to fool the electorate with.
As Pater Johnson said:
"I think that the best possible thing would be for Labour to continue down the suicide route which it embarked upon.”
he added: “And in that context, I long for Bailey, Rebecca Long-Bailey. “I think that she would do the job superbly.“Labour would be unelectable for the foreseeable future!”.
Also
LABOUR leadership frontrunner Sir Keir Starmer launched his leadership campaign in Manchester, urging his party to "build on" Jeremy Corbyn's legacy, hinting at an even more radical future for the Labour Party.
It is clear the denial of reality runs deep in Labour. I had hoped it was only manifested by the extreme left posting here, but in Labour it is both systemic and endemic.
We have nothing to fear from labour for decades! The patient refuses the only cure.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

"When he became leader he led on the party line, pro EU, and not his own personal preference, anti EU."

You are persisting with the tosh that he was anti-EU even though he voted remain (which I assume you now accept as you insist you're not calling him a liar). Whatever else you think of Corbyn, he does have a mind of his own and, like the rest of us on the left, he is a person of conviction - and also a person perfectly capable of changing his mind as circumstances change (I certainly changed MY mind about the need for revolution decades ago). Generally speaking, I would say that anti-EU people did not vote remain. Duh. As I said, his various statements made not long before the referendum are completely in sync with his stated remain vote. Now instead of sticking to your smears (Jeremy's going now, in case you haven't noticed, so no need to waste any more energy on him) why not do what I did and go and look up what I said?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 08:28 AM

It's not that difficult to understand Corbyn's dilemma, if that's what it was...

I don't see a too tremendous personal inner conflict in being against a political body in principle,
but reluctantly accepting that alternatives would most likely be even worse...???

That's something like my own fairly informed reason for voting remain..

I accepted that it was more sense,
and a probably more powerful position,
to try to actively change and improve the EU as a member within...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 07:32 AM

People are allowed to change their minds, Stanron. He may well have been anti EU in the past and then saw the light.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 07:12 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Stanron is predicating his argument on some weird certainty of his that Corbyn is a liar.

I never said, and I never thought, that Corbyn was or is a liar. I pointed out that before becoming leader he was anti EU. When he became leader he led on the party line, pro EU, and not his own personal preference, anti EU.

I have heard it said that Labour party policy is set at conference. Momentum started by gaining control of local groups. They have expanded their influence and now control the central position of power in the party. They are in a position where they can control what conference debates and possibly what conference decides. Momentum is now leading the party.

They don't want a leader elected, they want a figurehead.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 06:37 AM

That's up to you, but Stanron is predicating his argument on some weird certainty of his that Corbyn is a liar. Jeremy may be many things but I wouldn't call him a liar. If he sez he voted remain, I tend to accept it. If you dig a bit deeper into his quotes before the referendum you'll see that his claim to have voted remain fits what he was saying. I'm not doing it now because I'm off to my mum's care home. By the way, there nothing wrong with being a reluctant remainer. They are the people who probably thought about it the most before voting, aren't they? If only the brain-dead, xenophobe leavers, of whom there were millions, had engaged in the same way we wouldn't be in this horrible mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:54 PM
"The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016.

A didactic statement. Jeremy Corbyn claims to have voted remain, but this goes against his previous opposition to the EU. The referendum was a secret ballot, so we only have Jeremy Corbyn's word for how he voted.
Do we suddenly start believing everything that politicians say?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:51 AM

400

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:18 AM

Sorry, try this link

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM

Government pledges £71m for Redcar

Let us accept this may never turn up. Let us also suspect a fair degree of cynicism that it is more about keeping them voting Toey than anything else. Even the statement that it was decided before the election more or less fits that, as persuading them to vote Tory.


Despite those reservations, it is good news for Redcar, I think, and should be welcomed as such. Providing it does turn up.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 02:27 AM

We simply do not know who drives the failed agenda in the Labour party.
Is it Unite? Momentum, the hard left crazies? The present crop on offer in the leadership contest provide little to impress. The fact that Corbyn is allowed to remain as leader clearly demonstrates the fractured state of the party. For as long as he remains without public condemnation or censure, the party is heading for oblivion.
The recent election made it very clear the electorate will not accept any part of what the Corbyn cult offers. Labour has   an upcoming fight between hopelessly failed ideology and pragmatism. The party is in a state of paralysis, surely no other explanation can justify Corbyn continuing to be leader.
Unless the party reinvents itself it will never hold power again. The message of unelectability was enforced by the mass migration of labour seats to the Tories in the Labour heartlands. Betray your electorate-pay the price! Simples!
As for "winning the argument"-words fail.
Such a level of delusion surely demands sectioning, for public protection.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:54 PM

If there's one thing we should learn is that we never know what kind of a leader someone would make until they're a leader. I give you Atlee, a man with a million defects (including racism and misogyny), of whom Churchill (a man with five million defects, one of which is that he was responsible for the death of my great uncle Jimmy) said that he was a modest man with much to be modest about. Without wishing to diss Churchill's war leadership (that can wait for another time), Atlee did more for this country than a thousand bloody Tories have ever done. Didn't look too good in 1945 to start off with, though, did he?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM

I'm curious - out of all the Labour MPs who just lost their jobs,
which amongst them might have been a better leadership contender
than the bunch up for selection...???

.. and what, if anything, could be done about it...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:18 PM

Stanron, you haven't got the slightest scintilla of evidence that he changed because of some kind of pressure from the party. Please stop making things up. He voted remain. You don't want to respect that for reasons best known to yourself and millions of other brainless Mail-reading leave voters. Good for you. Nice point about Johnson, John. We all remember his stage-managed "can't decide but I'll let you know..." bullshit in early 2016.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 04:03 PM

So Corbyn vacillated over supporting or opposing our membership of the EU?

Wuppy-doo! Makes him no worse than Johnson.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: "The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016. Whatever your claims about his demeanour or sentiment, etc, which you are no more privy to than I am, that's the starting point: if you voted remain, you are a remainer.

You keep repeating that as If I denied it.

From his Wiki page;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn

"Corbyn has previously been a left-wing Eurosceptic. In the 1975 European Communities referendum, Corbyn opposed Britain's membership of the European Communities, the precursor of the European Union (EU). Corbyn also opposed the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, opposed the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and backed a proposed referendum on British withdrawal from the EU in 2011. He accused the EU of acting "brutally" in the 2015 Greek crisis by allowing financiers to destroy its economy."

Since he became leader the views he had previously held were changed to align with the Party line. He didn't lead. He followed.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

I don't have enemies here. I do have a couple of bloody irritants in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM

Steve - "Know thy enemy"..

Either to defeat them, or as first steps in healing divisions...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:56 PM

I'd certainly like to know a little bit more about his "interesting life" on the far right...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:54 PM

"The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016. Whatever your claims about his demeanour or sentiment, etc, which you are no more privy to than I am, that's the starting point: if you voted remain, you are a remainer.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM

Iains - if I am talking to the human aspect of the "Iains" persona..

You obviously must know lefties are a diverse bunch, just like any other group of folks..
Your constant insults reducing us to prejudiced stereotypes,
don't actually work as you might want..
They don't sting, I actually find them funny - but I have a perverse sense of humour..
Mostly your insults backfire and just show you up as a person
not to be taken seriously, and easily mocked...

I'd prefer to talk to the Iains who has lived an interesting life of travel and experiences...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:25 PM

The westerns I watched had cowboys and injuns. The ending being good or bad generally depended on whether one favoured the former or the latter.
I agree with you about mobs. Having seen flash mobs come out of nowhere several times in Nigeria and being a paleface, take it from me. It ain't no sensible place to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:48 AM

Iains - I think I get the drift what you are trying to say..

I'm actually rather keen on rugged individuals versus a wicked mob,
or harsh environment movies..


Westerns are my favourite genre...

We need a tough new anti-hero gunslinger in town
to protect the good meek town's folks, and farmers,
and motivate them to fight back
against the brutal evil robber baddies from inside and outside the territory...

You know how those movies usually end...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:30 AM

Hey PFR I have some bootleg copies of Bushtucker man. Are you interested?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:50 AM

I want the tories out and a Labour government.
I want a real Labour party, not a tory lite version.
I'd like to see this happen before I'm 70...

It's up to the Labour party to reflect on why they lose elections,
and what trappings of the past, and political text books,
they need to discard
in order to win back voters..

A party membership in stubborn denial will continue to lose...

600,000 good 'socialists' will not win a general election
where millions of votes are needed...

Working class ex Labour voters need Labour politicians they can identify with..

Sadly this is something ukip/tommy robinson/far right understand better than the current Labour party do...

It's the Labour party that needs to change how it portrays itself,
in a cruel new world of relentless pernicious media and internet hostility
geared up to permanently keeping Labour out of power...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

But will the new leader be a magician. I have a suspicion he/she/it will need to be.

Funny we no longer hear about pesky ruski collusion in our election.
Even the lefties realize that if a horse is dead, there is little point in flogging it.
Rather akin to electing a "new leader", looking at what is on offer.
Now they can no longer frustrate brexit they need another bone to chew!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:14 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Absolute unsupportable tosh, and you know it. Stop reading the Mail is my advice.

Your stubborn refusal to see the obvious makes me very happy. It's just the attitude that could keep Labour out of power for another term or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Absolute unsupportable tosh, and you know it. Stop reading the Mail is my advice.