byker hill

Subject: byker hill
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 07:40 AM

Iknow two different tunes to this song apparntly thers is a third tune.according to one set of notes the song was sung to a tune up she goes, is this a misprint and should it be the m6 /8 jig off shegoes, the two tune i am acquainted with are the 9/8 version Martin Carthy popularised.and another version here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D2OPUo3upU

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: GUEST,Redneckred
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 04:06 PM

The tune performed at the linked site is essentially the same as the version released by the Young Tradition 50 (wait, what? It can't be fifty can it? Let's see, 10, 20, 30 oh f**k, it is!) years ago.

I now feel so old that I'm getting depressed. Thanks, Sandman.

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 05:10 PM

Yes, the designated tune is 'Off she Goes' but the well used tune is much more dynamic as sung by the Wilsons on your clip. The Ranters probably set it to that tune. Martin's 9/8 tune is possibly his own.

The song appears with 'Off She Goes' as the designated tune in The Newcastle Songster printed by Marshall in about 1820.

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria (Sans Cookie)
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 06:37 PM

"Off She Goes" is near as dammit the tune that's traditionally used for the nursery rhyme "Humpty Dumpty Sat on the Wall"   And it's cited as the tune for "Walker Pits", printed in Allan's Tyneside Songs (published 1862 - reprinted with introduction by Dave Harker 1972), though the text was first printed in Bell's Northern Rhymes of 1812.

"Walker Pits" has the same chorus as currently sung with "Byker Hill", plus two of the same (well almost)verses ("If I had another penny...etc" and "When aw cam to Walker wark/ Aw had ne coat, nor ne pit sark...etc). Other verses have since been added, some of them borrowed from another Tyneside song "My Dearie Sits Ower Late Up"

The 9/8 tune which Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick applied to these words is very similar to the Northumbrian Pipe tune "Durrington Lads" - perhaps they got it from the High Level Ranters? Or maybe from Bert Lloyd?

The marching tune used for the same words by The Young Tradition is also the tune of the American spiritual "Where are the Hebrew Children?" On another thread somewhere on this site there is some discussion of whether the YT got this tune from Sandy Paton, or from Red Sullivan. (Worth looking up?)

And in Byker, at the Cumberland Arms sing-around (first Wednesday of every month), the 'original' words of this song are still sung, but to a completely different tune! You can hear it sung by local group Kiddar's Luck here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWqIoJp_hMQ

(Though they do it a bit faster than it's usually sung in the Cumberland.)

And that's enough for now - Wassail!

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM

the tune dorrington lads or my lassie sits up, was used apparantly as mouth musicand dance music and the byker hill words sung,it is a slip jig. i suspect it is the orignal ,after all the song has no story line, in my opinion and i may be wrong the tune CARTHY used is probably the original, i suspect the young tradtion were responsible for the other tune,personally i like both of them

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: Brian Peters
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 03:58 PM

What about this one?

The tune I first heard it sung to?

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria (Sans Cookie)
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:07 PM

Yes Brian, the version in your clip is the one that's usually sung at The Cumberland Arms in Byker.

The singer's introductory patter mentions George Welch - another regular at the Cumberland - as the source. I think that George may even have composed this beautiful tune. If so, then well done George. (BTW, George is a brilliant guitarist, but his riffs are hard to steal because he's left-handed.)

Wassail!

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 04:57 PM

First time I heard Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick perform "Byker Hill"was in a folk club near Sunderland, The Grange, Fulwell, in 1967. They admitted that they had learned it from the album "The Best of A.L.Lloyd"

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 10:51 AM

“WALKER PITS.
Tune––“Off she goes.”

If I had another penny,
I would have another gill––
I would make the fiddler play
        “The bonny Lads of Byker-hill.”
        Byker-hill and Walker-shore,
        Collier lads for evermore!
        Byker-hill and Walker-shore,
        Collier lads for evermore!

When aw cam to Walker wark,
        Aw had ne coat, nor ne pit sark;
But now aw've getten twe or three––
Walker pit's deun weel for me.
        Byker-hill and Walker-shore,
        Collier lads for evermore!
        Byker-hill and Walker-shore,
        Collier lads for evermore!”
[The Tyne Songster, 1840]

Origins: Off She Goes

Subject: RE: byker hill
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 11:38 AM

Tripped up by old search results. That last already well covered in main related in the thread: Byker Hill: background info anyone?