Creative group

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:24 PM

I was thinking more of the Cornish usage. They use the word "visitor" for "tourist". Well thinking about it, perhaps that's not too different from Mmario's usage either.

Moon baby, I was kind of agreeing with you. You are right, the word "lurker" is nasty, and people who are new to the web may not know that it is in common use. I don't think it's too big a deal, but should we talk about these folk, we don't want to use language that is going to scare them away. Of course it COMPLETELY spoils my verse to The Mudcat Tavern

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:35 PM

After all this discussion about lurkers and angels I hate to seem mundane and bland but how about 'reader'. A fairly non-threatening word describing the actions of someone who reads but doesn't post.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:42 PM

Hi - the term "lurker" has been used for years all over the Internet, with no offense intended, to indicate a "silent observer." I'm sure the use of the term started out as a joke, but this particular usage has become common. Kind of like the folk process, ya know. I suppose you could complain that it's not the "official" meaning of the word; but it's the "actual" meaning of the word within the context of the Internet. Instead of taking offense at the term or trying to change it, why not just enjoy the humor that started this usage in the first place?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:54 PM

Why simply enjoy it when you can have so much more fun talking about it?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:59 PM

For what it's worth, I am antoher who see's no harm in the term "lurker" and it's usage in terms of the internet is well understood and is in no way offensive.

There is nothing wrong in lurking and at times, I wish I did more lurking and less posting but my nature is such that I have to say something...

Jon

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:08 PM

I also see no harm in the term but its fun to come up with alternatives. I guess I'm not the only one who sometimes can't help posting. Do they have any local P.A. Posters Anonymous group?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:09 PM

Ever read any HP Lovecraft? The Lurker at the Threshold was one of his creepiest.

LEJ (Fool, not Angel)

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:10 PM

Oh Hey SPAW! All of Bowens Great Lakes Books are available on one of the old book finding cites, I think I saw them on Bibliofind or Bookfinder. I think you would get a kick out of them.
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:15 PM

"Lurker" seems to have become an accepted term throughout the net, with no negative connotation when used in that sense. I think if you tried to use another term, you'd just confuse new people even more than I'm confused already.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:20 PM

Some philosophy from a rum soaked illiterate fellah; who when he left school to go to sea at 16, thought that Logarithms was a birth control method for trees; and that Calculus grew on yer teeth if you didn't brush em.

Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open a thread and confirm it. Or,A closed mouth gathers no feet.

But for the nice people who post here, are not afraid of the Human condition; and the timid ones who test the waters prudently before stepping in, Welcome, I for one enjoy you all. Cheers. Dave

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:40 PM

Well, folkies .... I reckon I'm old fashioned. I have a great love of the spoken word and it's definitions. I've never been comfortable changing words into lingo or slang that defy their definition and have not adopted internet slang as part of my vocabulary. So ... I will not use the word lurk as a positive but would encourage y'all to use whatever words you have adopted for your personal vocabulary. I guess that makes me unhip ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: ddw
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 12:19 AM

Don't feel bad, Moonchild — I was delighted to see somebody else who likes to use words as intended, but I'm afraid you and I are being overrun by the whole new world of computerspeak or slang or whatever you want to call it.

I even fall into the trap myself sometimes. I think I used a form of "lurk" a few weeks ago when I posted a "Glad your lurking days are over" not when I recognized the name of a guy I had met just a few days earlier and he told me he'd been reading but not posting for about a year. I liked the guy, so there was certainly no intent to be offensive when I wrote that; it was just the word I'd heard used for people who only read in forums.

But keep up the good fight. People have a hard enough time understanding each other even when the right words are used. I shudder at what might happen if we got too free with definitions. I fight constantly with reporters who think there's no difference between a steamshovel and a backhoe, an armored personnel carrier and a tank (well, they both have guns, don't they?) or an Airbus A300 and a jumbo jet. My answer is, when you can convince me that a cow ran out from under a porch and bit the letter carrier, then I'll believe it's not important to call things by their correct names.

I guess the language has to grow somehow, but there are limits.

Don't, for instance, tell me we just entered the third millennium. I've fought a losing battle in the newsroom for months over that one and — as far as I know — have never once let it slip through in any copy I've handled.

But back to lurker; connotations shift and dictionaries don't actually tell you what a word means. They only tell you what most people take the word to mean.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 01:01 AM

Gee, just when I was beginning to think we were going to actually have a chat without bringing sex into the discussion, Sophoclese went and snuk it in the back door with the innocent-seeming line "Why simply enjoy it when you can have so much more fun talking about it?" Now if that aint mudcat fer sex, what is? UH-OH. Probably shouldn't open that door. *BG*

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 10:11 AM

What was the question again??

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:29 AM

Danlbear old pal:
The question? To post or not, to post, that is the question, weither it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of ourtragious posts,... oh that the citemaster had not fixed his cannon against self agrandizement... or something like that...
Good to see ya getting a little talkative, oh once silent on looker!
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 03:59 PM

I still reckon the term lurker was probably intended as unfriendly by the nettlesome person who first came up with it in this context. The folk process changes meanings, and tradition should be recognised. But I'd like to see Mudcat coming up with the occcasional; new traditions, recognising that this is a friendlier place than a lot of the net, by and large.

"Listener" would be another good term.Got a few spooky overtones, thanks to Waltwer de la Mare's poem:

"Only a host of phantom listeners
that dwelt in the lone house then

Stood listening in the quiet of the moonlight...

For the rest of it visit this site with some good poems, which I found just, which saves me from having to write the poem out in full

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:06 PM

And I've just checked out that site some more - it's from some fella in Co Wexford going under the name of Melmoth, and it's got some great stuff, including splashing water sound effects at one point. Really worth visiting.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:02 PM

Aine - I remember the scene, at the end of the movie as they're boarding the space ship - but damned if I can recall the name of the film. It's old, B&W, probably late '40s or so.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:09 PM

Why not call them "Gizhygians?" Is THAT offensive to anyone?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:19 PM

Spaw! You can't honestly be thinking of calling them THAT! OH gods and stars above! Just seeing it on the screen and I've had to pour myself a stiff drink to get over the shock. Clearly you've lived an extremely sheltered life and never met the off-spring of a Betelgeusian Inflating Rabbit-Hawk and an Alpha Centauri Polymorphing Shawms Player. Pray you never even THINK of that word if you do. Oh gods where's that drink?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:26 PM

We of the Gizhygian Antidefimation league deplore the implication that a Gizhygian is a non-participant member of any society. Gizhygia, though small and non-agressive, was the birth place of such inspired inovations as the Q-tip and those little kitchy things you hand on the end of light pulling strings. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know, some of your best friends are Gizhygians... Sheesh!
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:32 PM

Aine and Paddymac - Wasn't that line "It's a cookbook" from The Twilight Zone or Outer Limits?? I seem to remember it was a TV show - not a film. My flair for trivia fades after 10:30 CST. That could be a whole other thread - which was better - The Twilight Zone or Outer Limits?? For my money it was TZ - no contest.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:34 PM

THAT'S ENOUGH!!!!!!!AAARRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

I AM REALLY PROSTETNIC VOGON CATSASS AND I AM ABOUT TO READ YOU SOME POETRY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: vikinglass
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:35 PM

Dave (the ancient mariner), I like your way of thinkin'....along with the suggestion of sophoclese and a scotch and water, a real hoot could be had reading and posting. CHEERS to all those folks overestimating their importance in the world and the same to mudcat lurkers( both present and former).

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:36 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:37 PM

Hmmm. That came out a little differently than intended. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Night Owl
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:12 AM

sophocleese...is "oh gods and stars above" considered foul language in your family???? My great grandmother's favorite curse phrase was "ye gods and little fishes". Just curious. (Grandmother's favorite...."my stars and garters".)

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:03 AM

I agree with MC. Lurker suggest someone of nefarious purpose hanging out in the bushes waiting to jump out and grab whomever.

How about Hoverfolk, since they kind of hover around?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:17 AM

Many words have been redefined or taken on new meanins. Some for the better, some for the worse. I feel quite comfortable with the internet meaning of the word lurker and don't see the need for change... thinking of changes the other way, wouldn't it be nice if we could all be gay?

Jon

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:28 AM

I've heard the term "lurker" used on the internet to mean someone who reads messages but doesn't post, since I've been on it. If we have people coming in from other places on the net, they may use the term without the slightest idea someone may take offense. The thing with nefariousness on the internet is the real nasties are never the quiet "lurkers."

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:04 AM

Hey Y'all! Sorry it took me so long to get back here, but my computer has expired and I have to share the hubby's with everyone else is the house.

To clear up my 'It's a cookbook!' reference above -- It's a line from the Twilight Zone episode entitled 'To Serve Man,' which was taken from a short story of the same name. I'm sorry that I can't remember the author's name.

The story line is this: Aliens come down to Earth and go around with this book entitled 'To Serve Man,' fixing all of mankind's problems like famine, hunger, war, etc. Everyone thinks this 'visitors' are wonderful. Only there's one fella who doesn't trust them and their little reference manual. At the end of the story, he finds out that the book is not about how to save mankind, but how to fatten them up for the alien buffet. It's one of my favorite Twilight Zone shows.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:09 AM

Well all that aside Aine, what about GHYSIGIAN?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 09:21 AM

Aine - Thanks for clearing my confusion as to source of the line.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:25 PM

Jon ... if you are playing games and using the word gay in it's original definition, as in being lighthearted, I can see your drift ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: annamill
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:06 PM

Aine, this is one of my very favorite Twilite Zone episodes. The man who discovers the name of the book "To Serve Man" was a decoder and was able to decode the title, but not the text. He had a young woman assistant that worked with him. They worked on for some time when it became the man's turn to take a much desired trip to their friends, the Aliens, planet. As he was boarding the ship, up runs the girl screaming, "John, John, (It may not have been John), don't go!! The book, the book!! It's a cook book!! Gives me chills everytime I think of it.

I like "Angel". Lurking suggests to me, to me now, something subversive..oooooooo. Old school too, I guess.

Welcome, Danlbear!

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:16 PM

Thanks annap! It's been a long time since I've seen the episode, but it has to be one of my top five favourites!

Of course and wouldn't ya know -- It would be a WOMAN that would be able to save the Earth!!! There's more grist for the mill on the 'Sexism in Threads' thread (hehehe).

'It's A Cookbook!' would be a great title for a parody song, don't ya think? Let's see,

They came from the skies,
And to everyone's eyes
They seemed to come in peace
'Tho underneath their covers
Were true 'mankind' lovers
Preferring 'us' above others

Can't think of tune to fit -- anybody got a good idea??

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:27 PM

The original "cookbook" story was by damon knight, who always, like e.e. cummings, insisted that his name be written in lowercase. I'll respect that cause I really think it was a great story, one that cried out for a TV treatment, and they did a wonderful job.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:28 PM

Moonchild, to confirm, I was reffering to the origanal definition of gay.

Jon

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:36 PM

start with the whites of two eggs.....

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:48 PM

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to insist on some onions and garlic

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:49 PM

This seems to fit here. Was sent to me by another Mudcatter. Don't know who the author is. WARNING: Not for the faint at heart.

Imagine if you will... the leader of the alien's fifth invader force speaking to the commander in chief... "They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"Meat. They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."
"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars."
"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."
"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."
"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."
"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat."
"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."
"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!"
"So... what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."
"So what does the meat have in mind?"
"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."
"We're supposed to talk to meat?"
"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."
"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."
"I thought you just told me they used radio."
"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."
"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"
"Officially or unofficially?"
"Both."
"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."
"I was hoping you would say that."
"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"
"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"
"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."
"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."
"That's it."
"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?"
"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."
"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."
"And we can mark this sector unoccupied." ,br>"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"
"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic >rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."
"They always come around."
"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone."

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:55 PM

I got that too Katmyluv and I just cracked up!!

Spaw