Killed for listening to Kurdish music

Subject: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 05:15 AM

Young man near Ankara stabbed to death by three attackers for listening to Kurdish music:

article in Turkish

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 01:23 PM

I saw another FB post about this, quoting a different news service, which brought up an issue I found very disturbing. The reposter's comment (in Turkish) said quite clearly that he'd been killed for listening to a Kurdish song, using the normal and completely unambiguous word "Kürtçe". But the FB translation for the word was "Turkish" - you had to look at the original (hidden by default) to see what hsd really been said. It was as if an article about the murder of George Floyd had been rewritten to say he was a white cop killed by a black gang.

This CAN'T have been accidental. Somebody has managed to tweak FB's translation system in the interests of the Turkish racist right.

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 02:12 PM

thanks jack, it is terrible

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Joe G
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 06:40 PM

I saw this on Facebook too - terrible. Like Trump in the US encouraging racism Erdogan is doing the same in Turkey to the Kurdish people. I loved Turkey when we visited but will never return whilst he is in power

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 07:00 PM

Black man killed in AmeriKKKa for being a black man.

Business as usual.

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 03 Jun 20 - 08:15 PM

This is horrific, all round.

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 03:11 AM

We once made the mistake of visiting Turkey when the right regime was beginning to target the Kurds big-time - we were unaware of the extent of the oppression until we had pointed out the 'ghetto's in the desert - no mains electricity - no running water, insufficient sanitation... just like the way we treat Travellers
Having said this, cultural intolerance is not confined to regimes such as this
The Church in Ireland has a history of helping destroy Irish musical culture, priests breaking up house and crossroads dances because of the "moral threat they posed to unchaperoned young couple" being the main reason given
In 1935, the Irish Government in cahoots with the Church introduced the 'Dancehalls Act which introduced a tax on such gatherings, forcinng te people into the new 'Ballrooms of Romance' Ken Loach's 'Jimmy's Hall' is a superb depiction of what was happening - it brought about Ireland's on 'deportation' of one of it's citizens
This measures small next to this horrific killing, but it emerges from the same stable
Jim Carroll

The Irish hierarchy issued the following statement in 1925 at their October meeting in St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth:

We have a word of entreaty, advice and instruction, to speak to our flocks on a very grave subject. There is danger of losing the name which the chivalrous honour of Irish boys and the Christian reserve of Irish maidens had won for Ireland. If our people part with the character that gave rise to that name, we lose with it much of our national strength, and still more of the high rank we have held in the Kingdom of Christ.

Purity is strength, and purity and faith go together. Both virtues are in danger these times, but purity is more directly assailed than faith. The danger comes from pictures and papers and drink. It comes more from the keeping of improper company than from any other cause; and there is no worse fomenter of this great evil than the dancing hall.

We know too well the fruit of these halls all over the country. It is nothing new, alas, to find Irish girls now and then brought to shame, and retiring to the refuge of institutions or the dens of great cities. But dancing halls, more especially, in the general uncontrol of recent years, have deplorably aggravated the ruin of virtue due to ordinary human weakness. They have brought many a good, innocent girl into sin, shame and scandal, and set her unwary feet on the road that leads to perdition.

Given a few frivolous young people in a locality and a few careless parents, and the agents of the wicked one will come there to do the rest, once a dance is announced without proper control. They may lower or destroy the moral tone of the whole countryside.

Action has to be taken while the character of the people as a whole is still sound to stop the dangerous laxity that has been creeping into town and country.

Amusement is legitimate, though some of our people are overgiven to play. What, however, we condemn is sin and the dangerous occasions of sin. Wherever these exist, amusement is not legitimate. It does not deserve the name of amusement among Christians. It is the sport of the evil spirit for those who have no true self-respect.

The occasions of sin and sin itself are the attendants of night dances in particular. There may be and are exceptions, but they are comparatively few.

To say nothing of the special danger of drink, imported dances of an evil kind, the surroundings of the dancing hall, withdrawal from the hall for intervals, and the dark ways home have been the destruction of virtue in every part of Ireland.

The dancing of dubious dances on Sunday, more particularly by persons dazed with drink, amounts to woeful desecration of the Lord’s Day wherever it takes place.

Against such abuses, duty to God and love of our people compel us to speak out. And what we have to say each for his own diocese, is that we altogether condemn the dangerous occasions, the snares, the unchristian practices to which we have referred.

Very earnestly do we trust that it may not be necessary for us to go further.

Our young people can have plenty of worthy dancing with proper supervision, and return home at a reasonable hour. Only in special circumstances under most careful control, are all-night dances permissible.

It is no small commendation of Irish dances that they cannot be danced for long hours. That, however, is not their chief merit, and while it is no part of our business to condemn any decent dance, Irish dances are not to be put out of the place, that is their due, in any educational establishment under our care. They may not be the fashion in London or Paris. They should be the fashion in Ireland. Irish dances do not make degenerates.

We well know how so many of our people have of late been awaiting such a declaration as we now issue. Until otherwise arranged it is to be read at the principal Mass on the first Sunday of each Quarter of the Ecclesiastical Year. The priests will confer with responsible parishioners as regards the means by which it will be fully carried into effect. ‘And may the God of Peace Himself sanctify you in all things, that your whole spirit and soul and body may be blameless in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ (Thess. v. 23).

Given at Maynooth on 6th October, 1925.
Signed on behalf of the archbishops and bishops of Ireland.
Chairman —
+PATRICK O’DONNELL,
Archbishop of Armagh,
Primate of All Ireland.

Secretaries —
+ROBERT BROWNE,
Bishop of Cloyne.
+THOMAS O’DOHERTY,
Bishop of Galway.



See also: Archbishop Thomas Morris’ Pastoral Letter on Dancing (1960)

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 03:25 AM

I'm going to decide that this thread is mostly political and move it to the non-music section.

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 04:01 AM

I hope I haven't offended the OP with my posting but what I wrote was mainly on musical issues
Jim

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 03:49 PM

I think this is the song he was listening to when he was killed. The video tells the story, which is not in any way political (presumably an old ballad).

https://youtu.be/7T_zS13ZzSI

Subject: RE: Killed for listening to Kurdish music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 04:17 PM

This includes the lyrics of what Erol Berxwedan sings. I don't think Google can translate Kurdish yet; I can ask a human if needed.

https://g.co/kgs/gx54FY