Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'

Subject: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 11:43 AM

I've begun my annual tradition of re-reading my collection of Dick Francis books, beginning with 'To The Hilt.' I've just run across the term 'Hooray Henry,' which he uses to describe the husband of an overpowering, bossy wife.

Can one of the 'Catters there across the Atlantic clarify this phrase for me? Here's the relevant quote from the book:

'. . . and in the weak, good-looking Hooray-Henry (she) had chosen a mate she could indoctrinate.'

Thanks in advance, Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 11:59 AM

I don't know what it means, but Karen and I are both lovers of Dick Francis. The re-readings are always fun aren't they? As much as I love reading his stuff, I always kind if forget the book til I get into it. Makes them the most re-read books we have. Its a strange phenomena.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:04 PM

I knew we were soul mates, ya ole SBT! I have every book he's written, including the one about his career as a jockey, when he rode for the Queen Mother.

I read recently that he's going to retire soon, and that the next book to be released this year will be his last. That breaks my heart; but on the other hand, he has given me years of pleasure with his writing -- and I can always read them again, right?

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:29 PM

A "Hooray Henry" is an upper class twit with a loud mouth. It is usually used about drunken howling idiots at posh races, or just moronic upper class fools in general, with red cheeks and White Cliffs of Dover foreheads, and bad genetic traits. My father used to use it, so that would mean pre-World War II British slang. "He's a Hooray Henry sort of chap, not too strong on the grey matter, but knows his way around a champagne cork, just." That sort of thing.
pip, pip, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:32 PM

Aine,

The Oxford English Dictionary describes a Hooray Henry as being: a rich but ineffectual young man

That's a reasonable definition. I'd go further in saying that a Hooray Henry is a rich, upper class man who is somewhat stupid, and has never had to work in his life. Prone to saying (in upper class, southern english accent) 'gosh how super'

Think of a male version of Princess Diana, and you'll get the idea

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:38 PM

I was hacked over the recent crappola about his wife. Talk about much ado about nothing. Every fan knew as he had often said, that his wife did most of the research on the subjects outside of horses. That's one of the things I enjoy most about a lot of his tales: you always get an education in some field or another--banking, breeding, photography. But his best stuff is almost always the ones that are more strongly "horse" centered. I also like the fact that his "heroes" are generally somehow flawed---just average guys; sometimes, like Sid Halley, with a physical problem too. Got a favorite that you always read first? I go with "Dead Cert" when I start a re-read everytime. "Bolt" is generally next (he kills off the horse you've fallen in love with!!!).

I can see I'm about to go get my copy of "Dead Cert."

Spaw

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:42 PM

Thank you Peter T. and Clare! I loved your denotations and especially, your connotations!

Now, I'm trying to think of a comparable American term . . . nothing's coming to mind yet. Anyone want to take a crack at it?

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:48 PM

Dear Spaw,

I usually pick up 'Decider' first, because I save the ones with Sid in them for last -- you know, something to look forward to! I love Decider because of all the little boys in it. It's amazing to me how Dick was able to characterize each of them so vividly and individually. Every time I read that book, I can just see each one of the boys in my mind.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: _gargoyle
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:51 PM

Similar American characatures are found in:

"Fiffer's People" -

New Yorker Magazine

James Thurbers - short stories and sketches.

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:00 PM

I don't recall a North American equivalent, maybe because the classclustering of rich morons is more disguised at country clubs,etc. When I frequented these people (in an earlier incarnation) I used to call them all Tom Buchanan, because I knew they would have never opened a book, and would not be insulted.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:05 PM

You're a cruel man Peter.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:11 PM

Aine,

I'd guess that the different cultural mores, and differing definitions of 'class' would negate the possibility of any directly translatable term.

I think that 'hooray henries' are peculiarly english.

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:13 PM

Peter Sellers in an interview with Michael Parkinson, talked about why he got out of music (he was a drummer) and said he was constantly annoyed at all the "hooray Harry's". The implication was that they were self-important know-nothings, who were always coming up to the band trying to impress with their supposed knowledge of jazz.

Rick

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:46 PM

Dear Clare,

I disagree that you couldn't find a comparable Hooray Henry 'type' here in the States. I'm put in mind of the prep school sons of the 'old money' families in Boston, New York, and Philadelpha, for example. Also, I'm thinking of the sons of the 'old money' families here in the South as in Savannah, Montgomery, and New Orleans.

I do agree, however, that the 'class' designation would be different here, as the importance of your family would be measured monetarily, and not with a long list of titles.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 02:32 PM

Aine,

I didn't mean that there aren't similar types of people in the US, simply that an accurate definition of 'hooray henry' by necessity invokes a dimwit from the English 'home counties' (the counties that surround London.)

I'm not trying to claim that we have a monopoly on overly rich, underly cerebral young men...

Related is the term 'sloane ranger' which pretty much describes the female equivalent of the above.

(Yes, Princess Diana was one)

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 02:42 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Clare (no pun intended). I remember seeing the term 'sloane ranger' and not knowing then what it referred to, so thanks for that info too! Does the 'sloane' refer to a particular girls' school in England?

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:02 PM

Aine,

The term Sloane comes from Sloane Square. Found this on a London Tourism site. Hope the html is not frowned upon here.

Sloane Square SW1 Nearest Tube: Sloane Square This square, on the boundary between the districts of Chelsea and Belgravia, is synonymous with wealth. The name comes from Sir Hans Sloane, an 18th Century physician and naturalist. His collection of unusual objects and artefacts became the core of the British Museum's collection when he died in 1759. In the 80s this square gave birth to the term 'Sloane Ranger' meaning the wealthy bright young things of Britain's upper classes - the most famous of all being Princess Diana. Although the term is no longer used as much, it does give you an idea of the reputation of the area. In the square you will find the Royal Court Theatre, Peter Jones department store and lots of stylish cafes and bistros frequented by their very rich and chic clientele.

I'd disagree with the 'bright' bit but apart from that, it's fairly accurate...

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:07 PM

That's great, Clare! Thank you so much -- I feel elucidated -- might I even say 'bright' now (ha!).

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:13 PM

Clare, perhaps the "bright" is a social, rather than an intellectual description, perhaps equivalent to the masculine "elegible"?

Glad to see you're still here...I thought you showed great promise even when I was moved to rake you over the coals a bit.

--seed

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:46 PM

Bseed,

Thanks for the compliment, but..

Are you trying to be my teacher writing a report card?... "showed promise - but I knew best..."

Don't patronise me please

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:33 PM

Aha, still smarter than everyone else? I was merely trying to welcome you, despite my harsh words on the other thread. And I did have something material to your previous post you might have responded to, re: the meaning of "bright" in that context.

--seed

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: johnp
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:44 PM

You Oiks need

The Official Sloane Ranger Diary

from Harpers and Queen. Ebury Press

ISBN 0 85223 296 9 (paper for the hoi polloi)

ISBN 0 85223 355 8 (cased-not for proles)

Toodle pip

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:51 PM

god, you do sound like a teacher! i'm not smarter than anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

why the overtly aggressive stance?

thanks for the welcome, and yes your definition of 'bright' has some merit

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 06:24 PM

BSeed - come at me if you're hard enough!

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 06:43 PM

1. If you are going to assist in defining, please be sure you know what you are talking about.

2. A Hooray Henry may well be a member of a class but is defined by a manner of speech. Not the beautiful modulations of Brian Sewell, or even the tasteful clip of Prince Charles, but an overplayed bray which teeters between being loud (and penetrating, for there is a required tonality) out of an utter awareness of the presence or comprehension of the members of the other classes (the sort of blindness which considers a conversation to be "in confidence" even though servants are there) and doing so in peacocking self-display. Class, in England is not about money but about breeding and speech (and knowing how to dance to "Auld Lang Syne", amongst other things).

3. Diana Windsor (possibly the worst thing ever to happen to an English ruling house except for Oliver Cromwell) was far too much an upper middle class trendy really to be a sloane. Sloanes (from Sloane Street and Sloane Square) tended to be a little too tweedy to be trendy and to wear headscarves folded almost small enough to look like a large bandana, topped with a pear of expensive sunglasses (Carrera would do) shielding not the eyes but the top of the head - like a skier entering a bar.

4. "the hoi polloi" is a gross solecism. "hoi" is the anglicisation of a form of the classical Greek definite article, which in certain circumstances (which I have long since forgotten) take a rough breathing (a slightly breathy sound) before the form "oi". So "the " is a tautology. Correctly one should simply say "hoi polloi"

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: wildlone
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:15 PM

Hooray Henry or Prattus Ridiculasii.
Usual dress; When in Country Tweed hacking Jacket,Hunting Stock,Britches and Top Boots, Fine for the Hunting Field, Looks bloody stupid in the Crooked Billet, Stoke Row at 9pm.Must drive a big British 4wd with bull bars, you get a lot of Kangaroos in Oxfordshire.This species can be recognised by its loud braying cry of,"AIR-HAIR-LAIR".A translation of which is "OH HELLO".

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:19 PM

And the loud slamming of the 4X4 doors in the wee small hours, and the throwing of food items at each other in restaurants.

Penny

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Micca
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:40 PM

Much of the behaviour that defines HHs is contained in Richard Stilgos" Red Eyes Formation Drinking Team"

" In restaurants we shout a lot
and throw the food about
so all the other patrons
have a rotten evening out"
and
"He'll pin you in the corner
with his alcoholic breath
and stab you with his finger
as he bores you half to death"

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:42 PM

Richard, most amusing :-)

By the ability to dance (or not) to Auld Lang Syne, I presume you refer to E.R. at that dreadful dome thing?

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:46 PM

Clare, luv--

a. Yes, I am a teacher--but also, I'm a member of a community where most people generally try to treat each other with a bit of respect (even Americans are capable of this--we're not all like our government and economic establishment in this regard). When we are comfortable enough with each other we often relax enough to toss playful insults around, and to receive them in the spirit in which they were intended.

b. I don't feel you are a challenge to my manhood or my personhood, ergo, I feel no need to prove how "hard" I am to you.

c. I still say you show promise--but I mean no condescension when I say it. All I mean is that I feel you have much to contribute to the Mudcat: You seem knowledgable and generous in sharing that knowledge. Your demonstration above of your mastery of HTML indicates that you can contribute in that area and your posts will dress up the appearance of the forum, you have a sense of humor, even if it is a bit confrontational (YOU accuse ME of being overtly aggressive?).

Now, putting all that aside, I'd like again to welcome you to the Mudcat Cafe (our membership is open but we DO like to get to know those with whom we commune). I'm a relative newcomer: I've been here for 20 months. I feel I am among friends here, many of whom have been here far longer, many others of whom have appeared in the last week or month or so. We are a mixed bunch: some are professional performers, far more are less skilled, less experienced, but no less likely to speak our minds.

--seed

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:26 PM

Mr. Seed, I was prepared to jump right in and offer a defense in your behalf....However, you acquitted yourself well and I can add nothing to what you said. Well spoken. Once again, welcome Clare...(even if you would rather not be welcomed!)

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:44 PM

Oops, Banj, I forgot the title you bestowed upon me (and which I think hereafter I will add to my cookie).

--seed (O.M.G)

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:45 PM

BSeed,

Firsty, NEVER EVER call me 'luv'

And you say that you're not being patronising or condescending??? Try speaking to a few women...

Secondly, this is not yours or Bajer's forum. You may well have some cosy things going on with your friends here but I have as much right as you to say anything that I want.

You may not understand my sense of humour - tough. Learn to put up with it.

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:47 PM

Aine,

Sorry that your thread got so confrontational

Clare

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Áine
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 09:32 PM

'S OK, Clare -- I'm sorry, too. It looked as if we were going to get through at least one thread without a spat . . . Come on guys, let's try a little harder, OK?

Thanks to everyone for all the wonderful information! I've added two great expressions to my vocabulary now (well, at least when I read Dick Francis)!

As they say down here in Texas, Y'all done real good!

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: _gargoyle
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 11:20 PM

Hi....my name is gargoyle...and

I am a Hooray Henry!

Whoooosssseeee.....glad to get that off my chest......(Lord only knows who I could have married)

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 12:32 PM

I suppose the US term could be a 'Boston Bertie' or a 'Savannah Sebastian'. Rich young things with more money than sense and an IQ smaller than their shoe size, usually aspiring to the landed gentry, ride to hinds (hounds or foxhunting to everyone else), think a creche is when two Rolls Royces collide and sex is what horse feed is delivered in..... The sort of people that make me want to put on my best 'Liza Doolittle and say 'wotcha cock'.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Little Dorritt
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 01:57 PM

I've been trying to think of an american version of a hooray henry and its virtually impossible- although George Hamilton did flick through my mind at one point but then he's too old and not quite right. Probably James Hewitt is the best example of a hooray henry I can think of, an individual of absolutely no value whatsoever.Funny how people in the UK may aspire to having more money, but no-one aspires to changing class. As for poor Diana, I shouldn't think any young naive woman who's husband and family were as calculating as the house of Windsor, would have turned out any different. she may have been the worst thing to happen to the english ruling house but they are the worst thing ever to have happened to england.Clare, don't be too hard on BSeed irony doesn't translate well into the written word.

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 03:44 PM

Dog-gone it, I want to have an argument with Clare S. too.

Rick

Subject: RE: Meaning of phrase 'Hooray Henry'
From: clare s
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:34 PM

Rick

Be pleased to have an argument :-)

Saying something overtly sexist or bigoted would be a good place to start ;-)

Clare