BS: Are we alone?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 21 - 11:53 AM

Ok mudcatters, maybe it's time to own up which ones of you are space aliens..

.. and that includes you alternative reality dimension aliens as well..

So why have you all been in deep hiding here, disguised as human folk music fans, for all these years ..???

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 21 - 12:47 PM

duh! You guys are still dangerous in primitive nuclear ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 May 21 - 06:47 PM

UFOs are, by definition unidentified. That does not automatically mean aliens. The SR-71 Blackbird used to bring UFO reports when it was tested in Nevada.

   I will wait.... although as a Sci-Fi fan, I hope they are genuine

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 21 - 08:11 PM

Well they could be AI. Explanations of their tech based on ufo maneuvers has been around for 50 years. To produce no G forces the craft would have to be in a negative gravity field. Electromagnetic fields would have to be phenomenal. I would like to see where they are serviced. Maintanence free craft seems like an impossibility to me.

Why do they have the need for daily flights???

Bill is your tech really better than the US military?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 21 - 07:48 AM

At Northwestern I used to visit J.Allen Hynek at his home. Toward the end he was catagorizing various ufos by different charasteristics. That is virtually where we still are today. He was ahead of his time by the position he was thrust into. Most of us do not have a dog in the fight for the truth. Dr. Hynek did suffer for his quest and was disinvited to the American Academy of Scientists Convention by the now unknown status quo ass holes of his day.

As for 'the boys upstairs' they certainly have a perspective on us which is more tolerable over time than our perspective on them which could be summed up in a current populist phrase 'illegal aliens'.
They used to be gods who may or may not have helped or interacted with us. Perhaps in our time they know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 21 - 02:37 PM

In defense of Bill's caution is that the US has had 2 seperate space programs since the 50's. You may have never heard of Dyna-Soar but they had their own one man space shuttle first.
NASA was the peaceful program and the other one was not. The early secret space program was mostly for cold war reconnaisence.
Trump declaring a new Space Force is an example of repetative redundancy.

Occam's Razor would likely come down on the side of the military hiding its right hand from the left hand. A third of the space shuttle missions were military and some are still classified.

So Bill are you saying the US is probably operating special craft globally or is another entity?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 May 21 - 03:23 PM

"Bill is your tech really better than the US military? "

"So Bill are you saying the US is probably operating special craft globally or is another entity? "

I'm not saying either of those things. I was very careful to say... UFO means unidentified.

   It's like religious questions to me. I don't **believe** in Gods or UFOs... that has nothing to do with denial OR acceptance.

The things is...I personally do not NEED answers in either case. If a very clear, obvious manifestation of either happened, I'd be fascinated, but ever since Roswell there have been claimed sightings of 'stuff'...and in the case of religious entities, for many centuries.
Most events are 'witnessed' by individuals or small groups... events seen by larger groups have many time been explained by various natural phenomena.

Repeating: I do not assign probability to any of them. I remain curious, but like the "Fair Witness" in Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land", I report what **I** see and hear..

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 May 21 - 06:39 PM

I'm not comfortable with "believe," Bill, as I've said many times in those "pete threads." ;-). "Believe" means "to accept, on balance, without evidence." The flip side is that "I don't believe" means that "I don't accept, on balance, though I haven't got the evidence." The debate is somewhat skewed, though, in favour of believers. To dig up the usual old chestnut, if you tell me that there is a chocolate teapot in orbit around Jupiter, it's pretty useless for me to say that I don't believe you. You'll simply tell me that I can't prove that you're wrong, which is true. You've succeeded in playing the game on my turf, so grrr. Far better for me to tell you that your claim is outlandish, and that, whilst there's a vanishingly-small prospect that it's true, I require evidence of the scientific kind (definitely not the religious kind), otherwise I'll just ignore you and have another beer. That's how I feel about UFOs. So, I neither believe nor not believe that they exist. I shrug until you can come up with something credible. The ball's in your court, not on my turf...

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 21 - 07:10 PM

The US has reacted with a massive shrug and yawn. There was a day when the Rand think tank deduced that society and religions would be thrown into chaos. Since then there have been so many catastrophes that "ufos are real" is a page 10 story. Besides most folks expect the government was lying.

The 'belief' saga has always been a sideshow.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 21 - 12:48 AM

Perhaps space aliens are still keeping quiet
because they are embarrassed about all that abducting and anal probing
back in the pre 'me too' era...???

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 May 21 - 01:14 AM

The reality is that there have been too many reliable observations, both by Mk 1 eyeball attached to trained observers and by instruments. If the USAF is reopening Project Blue Book, they believe there is something worth investigating.
The next question is "How do we communicate with them?" Are we still too primitive?
An alternate hypothesis may be that these are the equivalent of alien teenagers having a good time and showing off for their girlfriends.
The one thing we can be sure of is that we are not alone.
The paranoid hypothesis is that they are military scouts keeping an eye on us. I hope not.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 21 - 04:19 AM

Well there are plenty of "reliable" observations of ghosts too, but the final decisive clincher is always missing, as with flying saucers. They both make good yarns, and I'm all for that, but that's as far as it goes with me...for now....

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 21 - 07:33 AM

There he goes again.
Just because you have an UNKNOWN cancerous tumor does not mean you do not have cancer. Unequivically the cameras, eyes and telescopes have proven real and physical objects but Joe Sixpack says I choose to ignore ignore reality. In the face of incontravertible proof the old world 'Deniers' be they climate, plastic pollution or UAP, are now silly outliers.

PS Project Bluebook is gone forever, ATIP is what has been reinstated.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 21 - 07:40 AM

What a stupid comparison. That's surprising, even from you. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 21 - 01:22 PM

"Unidentified cancer" is dramatic but its got balls.
Phrases like "old chestnut" are worn out and tedious.

regarding types of UAPs, I find the Dropa ships most intriguing and ancient. The upide down pyramid is new to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 May 21 - 06:00 PM

The poin of my post is that a reasonably authoritative an responsible organization has accepted that there is likely to be merit to studying the question.
Whether you call it Project Bluebook, ATIP, SETI or Area 51, the question is being explored. In every one of these cases, the question is the same. How do we talk with them?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 21 - 08:49 PM

There seems to be plenty of 'body language' in their flight characteristics and mimicry of our flight paths. That tells us something.

We are going to have to make apparant freindly displays and gestures, then watch for response.

We have the tech to project motion picture holographic imagery in the sky. There are plenty of ways for us to take a first step.

Meanwhile social distancing is the rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 21 - 09:08 PM

I wouldn't rule out prior encounters and "talk".

Raise my rent and call me Nancy if 'they' land and emerge looking like ancient Sumerians carrying a little purse in their left hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:03 PM

700 G force at 13 times the speed of sound yet thre is no sonic boom are two clues at the unique travl of the clocked UAPs.

Anyone care to xplain how this could be possible?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:41 AM

I get the concern from physicists that technologically advanced extraterrestrials might behave as powerful human civilizations have in the past. But maybe the concerned physicists should engage a little more with social scientists. The assumption is that powerful, technologically advanced civilizations will act in a destructive manner. That is possible, but perhaps civilizations that reward destructive entrepreneurship are less likely to generate the technological wherewithal for interstellar travel. And if those UAPs are ETs, maybe there is more hope for interstellar relations than either scientists or science fiction envision.
If they are not organic but are like advanced AI self repairing drones that are not programed to break the prime directive, we may never have a "talk".

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: skarpi
Date: 24 May 21 - 04:45 PM

Hallo all ,
No, we are not alone, there is a question going on it is : who is walking among the humans , looking like human, but is not human ?
we are Et, why well , we live on Earth witch is in the Milky way Galaxy going through the Universe, but among us here on Earth are other ´s beings , only 10 % of our Ocean has been checked, so what s hiding down there , or on the dark site of the Moon, few years back I was taken, through the witch I called the tunnel of light, I did not understand this until later, and then I understood that we are not alone, there is also a world between the worlds, I cannot not explain it , yes I am from the land of Elf and Trolls
and the world of the Vikings , and though who knows me tell s me that I am
crazy to talk about this , well we the humans have lost out touch to our Mother Earth and to the Universe, your Americans Natives have still the touch, but most of the human s are to busy looking at the phone, computer´s and things that does not matter s at all, it´s the NOW that count´s not yesterday or Tomorrow, consciousness, love , peace, not hate or greed for power over people, when the humans get that, things will turn to the right for us . But that s me ,
I can only speak for my self, one day they will show them self among us .With all respect of what ever who ever think ,
all the best Skarpi from Iceland North Atlantic Ocean

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:43 PM

While I can not share your certainty of exsistential realities, over time you have certainly progressed from an experiment with english to near fluency. Icelandic is considered to be the most difficult language for english speakers.
I'll give you this; metaphorical truth comes in strange packages.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 May 21 - 05:50 AM

What makes us think that that any visitors would be human? Humans don't have the biggest brain to body ratio and we are not necessarily the most effective in managing our home environment. We are illogical, petty and destructive every day of our lives, frankly, we barely get by.

And I still maintain that we need a third arm and hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 21 - 09:24 AM

I know neutron stars more destructive than humans. Some of my best friends are human. :^}
What separates humans is education and talent.

On one hand we have humans like Martha
and on the other hand mental midgets

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 21 - 10:58 AM

The new news about ufos is still the same old cold war stance. What has been done however is to remove the stigma that used to be suffered by innocent witness's.
Q Anon has their conspiracy thories about the military shift but I won't get into those.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 May 21 - 01:59 PM

"And I still maintain that we need a third arm and hand."

Well, for sci-fi fans. there is The_Mote_in_God's_Eye
..and its overwhelming sequel The Gripping Hand

Long, engrossing stories, but with amazing detail & imagination.

"Robert A. Heinlein, while giving the authors extensive advice on a draft manuscript, described it as "a very important novel, possibly the best contact-with-aliens story ever written".[3] Theodore Sturgeon, writing in Galaxy, described The Mote in God's Eye as "one of the most engrossing tales I have encountered in years"

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 May 21 - 02:34 PM

For second time since the thirties population growth has stopped and is retreating.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 May 21 - 06:50 PM

??? The rate of growth has declined. I don't think overall growth has. Sources?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 21 - 04:52 AM

While some countries have already been on a downward path I'm sure a psndemic has influenced countries overall.

Game changers can happen all at one. Shell, Chevron and Exxon were court ordered to cut emmissions by 45% - within hours of each other yesterday.

The enevitable has to happen at some time.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 May 21 - 05:54 AM

Bill D - PM
Date: 26 May 21 - 01:59 PM

Interesting, Bill. I haven't read either of the books.

My innovation pictures the third hand curled up flat into the bosom when not in use. But just think what a lifesaver it would be!
'
My other proposal may not be as popular: I visualize one's head being able to lie on its side or even upside down on one's shoulders. Painting a ceiling would be a breeze.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 21 - 05:00 PM

Extra arms just like the Independance day invaders?

If UAP's were of a domestic Earth origin, secrecy would be neccesary so their use in unimaginable crimes would prevent an assured getaway.
Tampering with space time can do things we could not catch with our best detectives or investigative reporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 May 21 - 10:47 PM

Consider that we are not alone on this planet. There are those who say that dolphins and other cetaceans have been trying to communicate with us for centuries. Perhaps the "saucer people" are talking with them already.

Is it that much of a stretch to consider the possibility of visitors from elsewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 21 - 11:20 PM

As in Star Trek movie "The voyage home"?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 21 - 11:43 PM

Space Time manipulation is beyond our imagination since we think of space in terms of being 3D but we think of time as a linear single dimension.
Why can't time have 3 dimenions as well. Past, present and future come to mind but I am thinking of a simultaneous 3D quality of time.
No not a time machine per se but nudging space and time to a limited degree so that the UAP's can appear to do impossible movements unrelated to propulsion or areodynamics.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 May 21 - 12:52 AM

Magic is just science we don't understand yet.
We are all time travers, moving at one second per second--except for those who aren't. [Thank you, Spider Robinson.]
Donuel, the idea was around long before Star Trek.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 May 21 - 05:19 AM

: Donuel - PM
Date: 27 May 21 - 11:43 PM

I like to say that it wouldn't be so bad that life is short if only it were wider.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 May 21 - 08:24 AM

hahahha but sometimes its thick.

No sarcasm intended with movie references. I didn't even know about the Tulsa massacre until I saw the movie Watcman on HBO.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 May 21 - 08:17 AM

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011JBIS...64....3W/abstract

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 21 - 10:14 AM

I participated in a radio show on WHAM Rochester NY and other smaller stations where we discussed ufo's and also belonged to a witness group subject to hypnosis interrogations. I met many of the pioneers so after talking to literally thousands of people including military, I had formed a solid opinion but admitted I had no hard evidence. Separating the frauds from the truthfully sincere was easy.
I did not want a career in the field to cloud my judgement so now at long last the truth I knew has been affirmed which is satisfying but still empty of substance. I don't think the pervasive silence from 'above' will change in my lifetime. I think they are smart to have been quiet but obvious for the last couple hundred years.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jun 21 - 10:37 AM

Barack Obama was just interviewed about the recent UFO concerns. He stated that after taking office he did ask if there was any truth to the rumors of alien bodies and spacecraft hidden away at secret locations.

He says he was told "No!"... that there are no confirmed actual sightings. UFOs remain **unidentified**.
This, of course, will not satisfy many believers and those who assert "close encounters".

Me? I'll just wait....

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 21 - 10:46 AM

Actually Obama was interviewed in May and affirmed actual sightings
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/politics/barack-obama-ufos/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 21 - 11:52 AM

I wont even bother waiting, Bill. There are ideas which are far less daft with which to entertain myself. It's up there with the little people, the fairies, ghosts, Bill Gates and his vaccine microchips and God...

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 06:52 AM

Steve will not even wait and prefers to ignore reality. For whatever reason Bill will sit on the fense for now. I am willing to climb the fense and look at demonstrations of advanced physics that may or may not be understandable to us.
Endemic to mankind is a long standing pandemic of ignoring reality however there is a long list of actual scientists who have had the courage to advance science for the sake of knowledge through out history, no matter how 'unpopular' reality is judged by the miniminds.

Some are forever in the minority like the Q crowd. Reality is viewed dimly by the Q crowd, and by golly ya ain't gonna change their minds neither. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 10:57 AM

Harvard University astrophysicist Avi Loeb says the significance of the UAP Task Force report will depend on the evidence it discloses, which at the moment remains mostly unknown. “But this focus on past reports is misguided,” he says. “It would be prudent to progress forward with our finest instruments rather than examine past reports. Instead of focusing on documents that reflect decades-old technologies used by witnesses with no scientific expertise, it would be far better to deploy state-of-the-art recording devices, such as cameras or audio sensors, at the sites where the reports came from and search for unusual signals.”

Loeb goes a step further, saying he is willing to sign up to help unravel the UAP/UFO saga. “Personally, I will be glad to lead scientific inquiry into the nature of these reports and advise Congress accordingly,” he says. “This could take the form of a federally designated committee or a privately funded expedition. Its most important purpose would be to inject scientific rigor and credibility into the discussion.”

History lazily repeats itself in some circles.
For some seasoned investigators, such as William Hartmann, a senior scientist emeritus at the Planetary Science Institute, headquartered in Tucson, Ariz., the current dustup over an influential government report on UFOs is a reminder that, eventually, everything old becomes new again.

Hartmann was a photography consultant and a co-author of the University of Colorado UFO Project’s report Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects. Funded by the U.S. Air Force from 1966 to 1968, that investigative effort was led by physicist Edward Condon, and it had dismal effects on subsequent scientific investigations. The extensive study of UFOs, Condon and his co-authors concluded, is simply not a fruitful field in which to seek major discoveries and “probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby.”

Reflecting on his work for the project, also called the Condon committee, Hartmann says that none of the photographic evidence he examined could establish anything extraordinary about the observed phenomena. “We proved that some of [the cases], including classic photos still being trotted out, were fake,” he says. “That fact alone makes it extremely difficult to apply straight scientific techniques because we know some, not necessarily all, of the data we were given were carefully prepared to delude us. [That is] not quite like astronomy, where we can assume that the photons coming through our telescope atop Mauna Kea in Hawaii are not put in there by a hoaxer.”

Deniers with their lies and false equivalancies are alive and well and will have to die of old age, like our own usual suspects, to allow unimpeded truth to flourish.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 12:50 PM

What if they do make contact..
We find technological means to communicate..
.. and they turn out to be really boring conversationalists...???

The kind of folks we dread having to stand or sit next to at social gatherings...

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 12:57 PM

"Mr President sir, our new alien visitor friends will not stop droning on and on about out how much superior their new spaceship is to last year's model.
They are completely oblivious to any hints it's time to end the meeting..
We are sick of looking at their holiday photos, our whole Earth delegation is exhausted and needs to sleep..
Surely it's time to send in special agent Donuel to outbore them into going home..."

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 01:59 PM

Obama said there are no ***confirmed*** instances of alien craft and that those who ought to know said we do NOT have alien bodies frozen away somewhere.
Of course there are daily reports of *U*FOs, and will always be. Things happens.. and now there are so many real things in orbit that more people will see things.

Let me know when one lands on you lawn and says "Klaatu_barada_nikto

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 04:35 PM

Bill if you insist upon reporting only half of what the man said you should

All indications point to an alien conversation that would be so rapid in a concentrated time frame, compred to our sense of time, that humans would be totally reliant on nn app if we can come up with one. Their single syllable could be like a song with 42 stanzas but as boring as Vogon wav poetry about our insurpassible imbecility. Their sense of humor is primarily stupid human jokes much like our blonde or polock jokes. I think I would like them.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 21 - 06:25 AM

Nothingissacredndthere isroom to pokefun at ufophenomena howevertheydo exist AND SO DOES NEGATIVE MATTER which could be key to ufo
propulsion. negative matter

Where would we find some? Its probably dark matter. Negative mass is an object whose existence is required by the law of the conservation of energy. The fundamental properties of negative mass can explain important characteristics of dark matter. 1) additional centripetal force effects, 2) explanations derived from fundamental principles about the reason why dark matter does not have electromagnetic interaction, 3) repulsive gravity ensuring almost even distribution and lower interaction of dark matter, 4) gravitational lens effect, 5) accelerating expansion of the universe can be explained with negative mass. Therefore, we should seriously examine the negative mass model.

To apply this notion to uap propulsion would involve an encapsulation of negative matter and applying a push upon it from various opposite directions to go in a desired direction.The technology would be fantastic to produce such a real time balancing act.

I am about new ideas and don't give a damn about credibility to people who can't imagine something new. Playing with forces that are essentially similar to gravity will have an effect on time and make
things even more interesting. :^O => :^o => :^.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 21 - 07:47 AM

I too find deniers and nay sayers silly. As silly as saying since we haven't seen any moons elsewhere in the Universe they do not exist. Except in our solar system.