BS: Are we alone?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: skarpi
Date: 05 Jul 21 - 03:20 PM

Are we alone ?
NO we are not .
all the best Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jul 21 - 04:11 PM

If you are an indoor persom you may never have had the experience of finding life everywhere you look. When it comes to in, on and around Earth its everywhere. There are even fish deep underground below Death Valley.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 21 - 08:37 PM

Don..."I have to laugh that an intelligence that can use space/time and mass/energy to propel craft would not know of our technology spread of cell phone cameras."

   Sounds like certain 'proofs of God'. And resembles the story of the 100 MPG carburetor that was rumored in the 50s and of it 60s. Of course no one could find the plans or a model of it... the oil companies hid them! Speculation about 'alien intelligence' that seems to already posit it is a prime example of a logical fallacy.
I repeat. I hope we DO find some... but I'll wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 10:37 AM

Bill I am honest when I tell you sometimes I wish that I could afford the luxury of my early skepticism or that the 4 visual experiences and one audible phenomena had not happened to me. That this topic is just a 5,000 old hoax of history. That it did not resemble a proof of God fallacy. That there is not a different take on intelligent life because we are the only game in town but I can't.

I know our own experience is more important to ourselves than to other people or that coincidence has a major role to play in our billions of interactions. When we consider Kruger Dunning its amazing we can agree on anything at all. There are certain realities we can agree upon but they are usually the self centered ones.

I will remind you of Carl Sagan's book Contact when Ellie appearded before Congress with no evidence and is justifiably criticised despite withheld evidence. While the character was more passionate and invested, I too can not abandon the personal reality of my collective experience. I would sooner claim love is a total delusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 02:11 PM

5,000 year old hoax of history?
probably older.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 03:40 PM

No one can doubt that you... or anyone ... had personal 'experiences'.

We just cannot base general public knowledge on them unless they are some combination of replicable, recordable, predictible, and coherently explainable.

The "Miracle at Lourdes" was a personable experience of two young girls who 'saw' a religious vision. People WANTED to believe it.

It can be hard to distinguish a vivid dream from an "Out of the Body" experience.. and from a near-death experience. (I once had a vivid dream about a friend from high school that had me composing an anxious letter... until I realized that the details were fading as I wrote.) And 12 eyewitness reports of traffic accidents, shootings and UFOs can vary widely.... which is one reason police body cams and other digital monitoring equipment is becoming popular. Right now I can't remember if you ever posted any details of YOUR experiences, but if you experienced something, I cannot doubt that you are recounting things honestly. Neither can I take your honest report at face value.

   There are so many things that can be the source or 'cause' of an experience that sorting genuinely possible events from old hoaxes and honest mistakes is a never ending task.

I will continue to **doubt** but not to directly **deny**.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 04:33 PM

We are in agreement except that a retrospective view of any state of consciousness reveals what it was - be it a dream or other.

PS I once found an original Beethoven scrape manuscript that I began to transcribe to see if I could alter or enhance when I noticed that the note I would write would dissolve after I wrote it,
because it was a dream. It wasn't hard to discern the unreality.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we alone?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 06:46 PM

Yes.. a " retrospective view" of an event tells us most of what we need to know about it...except causality and accuracy.... that is, whether our senses were deceived in any way. Senses and memories are often times confused, and we know that eyewitnesses of events DO disagree--as in Jan. 6th.

Discerning UNreality is one thing. Clarifying reality is usually much harder.