BS: Regional UK Accents

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 21 - 03:09 PM

previous clip norfolk dialect

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 21 - 03:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzt4wKW7Tsg

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Aug 21 - 08:38 AM

Shane McGowan's accent is a mystery to me.

He went to Holmewood House prep school (not far from me in Speldhurst in my 4 years living in Kent in the 70s) and to Westminster School from there. That (~to me) doesn't really conjure up images of a sort of say rough London accent.

---
Pre Covid, I used to meet up with a few people from Strabane in a local N Norfolk pub (landlord is from there) for a musical weekend. They just sound "Northern Irish" to me.

---
On an another bit, I only remember one person getting my county of birth right. He was the postmaster at the post office/shop in Conwy, N Wales. He (apparently from Shropshire) reckoned my own Shropshire bit (muddled with longer periods then in N Wales twice and Kent) was quite distinctive...

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Aug 21 - 05:01 AM

I remember that Strabane clip.

My parents were from the west of Ireland, Galway city and Claregalway, approx 10 miles outside the city. They lived all their married lives in S.E.Kent. Growing up I got used to hearing their accent and ended up not hearing it at all. Friends would remark on their accents,they never lost them, but i would rarely notice it. It would only be the odd word or two that stood out.

My parents did encourage all of us to speak clearly. I like to think that I still do. One of my aunts told me years later, that when she visited us when we were younger she would struggle to understand me and my siblings when we were talking amongst ourselves. She put it down to our accent and the speed at which we spoke. It was a very talkative household.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 12 Aug 21 - 09:30 AM

There is a BBC interview from the past tha I have seen with a man from Strabane.The interviewer keeps stopping him to slow him down but he just speeds up again. The only word you can hear for sure is Strabane!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Allan Conn
Date: 12 Aug 21 - 06:13 AM

Sometimes mind it is not just the accent. Sometimes people are just very quick speakers or they slur. I know a least two people who speak with the same accent/dialect as me but I can't make them out half the time. Nothing to do with the accent as such. Just very fast and no very clear speakers!!

I did watch a documentary with Shane Macgowan of the Pogues recently. He has always kind of slurred his speech but seems to be worse as he is getting older. I honestly could have done with sub-titles for some of it. I am sure it was more his slurring than it was the London accent - but I was left wondering had he been a Glaswegian or a Geordie they might have slapped subtitles on. You're just kind of expected to make out London accents!!

One US actor I just can't watch is Jesse Eisenberg. Again not because he has any kind of way out accent. He just speaks so fast that I can't be bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 21 - 03:09 AM

is it fair then to say that accents were more pronounced when people travelled less,A friend of mine had to act as an interpreter between two people one from kerry one from suffolk.
i have lived in cork county for 31 years but recently experience a 5 minute conversation where i did not understand a word.
this corkonian talked with no movement of the upper lip. i was mystified and left saying go on., away,you dont say, etc, not understanding a feckin word

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 07:10 PM

Just remembering a holiday we had in Aberdeenshire years ago, visiting my parents, but bringing with us a couple of friends from Devon: though it was 2 farmers talking to each other, neither could understand of word of what the other said!

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 03:56 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8pxfqgSBQ Part 1: The History
The Doric tongue so common in the North-East is part of the Scots Language. But where did this language come from, and what makes the Doric special? Our two academics Professors Smith

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 03:55 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8pxfqgSBQ
Part 1: The History
The Doric tongue so common in the North-East is part of the Scots Language. But where did this language come from, and what makes the Doric special? Our two academics Professors Smith

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 03:37 AM

That's interesting Sandman. Here in Norfolk, the word for limping is 'harpling'.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 03:17 AM

herpling walking in a lame fashion

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 03:02 AM

slithering
To walk onward in a sliding motion, especially in a manner that makes others feel uneasy or distrustful. I ignored the sleazebag at the bar until he eventually slithered along to the next woman who caught his eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 02:55 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 02:52 AM
dialect of mid ulster

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 02:52 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdffWwi2EEs

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 04:33 PM

thanks Rain Dog, fascinating

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 02:18 PM

Word of Mouth which was on BBC Radio 4 today.

Michael Rosen asks Professor Devyani Sharma about the latest research into accent bias in the UK. Which are the highest and lowest rated accents, and why does it matter so much? Produced by Beth O'Dea for BBC Audio in Bristol More information on the work of the Accent Bias Britain project: https://accentbiasbritain.org/

Word of Mouth

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 03:27 PM

I was talking about recognising West Country accents with a steward who I did not know at Upton festival
one year. He challenged me to guess where he came from. I got within 3 miles.


Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 02:46 PM

I Remember walking in to a pub in bradford on avon in the 1980s and i asked for a pint, the landlord spoke approx six words ,i recognised his accent from my childhood , i said are you from lewisham.. he was

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 04:33 PM

In North Wales, I'd stand a chance at picking out Bangor as they are supposed to say "aye" after every sentence.

In the Llandudno area I lived in, I think I'd (Shropshire born and not a Welsh speaker) who doesn't speak Welsh) be more likely to pick up whether someone was likely to be a Welsh first language person than anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 04:13 PM

Senoufou: "Taffia" is any group of Welsh people who practice nepotism or live in an ethnic enclave.

See Wiktionary.

It is a standing joke that, in the enclosed communities of the valleys, it is sometimes impossible to avoid nepotism. It is also a joke that corruption is what you suspect when the man awarded the contract is not related to anyone on the planning committee.

There is also the one about the well-off Englishman who is building a second home for himself in West Wales (a perennial source of discontent). Annoyed at the lack of progress, he asks the builders' foreman if there is any Welsh equivalent to the Spanish word "Mañana". The foreman thinks about it for a while and replies "Nothing that conveys quite the same sense of urgency."

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 05:32 AM

Didn't Mick Tems, Dr Price here, have a similar experience with his stroke?
I seem to remember Pattie telling me that when she went to see him first in hospital that he could only speak in Welsh, which is not his first language.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 04:40 AM

It is pretty much the same here in the Borders where locals can often tell what part of the Scottish Borders you come from and even sometimes what town. Hawick is particularly easy to distinguish as it has retained more of the "yow and mey" of the Borders Dialect of Scots that other towns have.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 03:15 AM

I'm so sorry you had to go through that Huw - very worrying and distressing for you and your family. But well done for your determination to push through to a recovery of your speech. I absolutely love your word for Welsh people - 'The Taffia'!!
When our cats were around (all dead now, sadly) I often found myself breaking into an Irish accent (which is how my mother spoke, especially strong when she was cross) if one had scratched the furniture or brought in a mouse.
I sometimes wonder if there is a genetic link to language and accent with memory cells in our brains. (While munching on a buttered crumpet, I often sound like a cave-woman - grunt grunt mmph mmph! Primitive genetic link?)

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: HuwG
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 08:54 PM

A brief discursion on my own orphaned accent. Im earlier posts I mentioned that my intonation was Welsh but my construction purely English.

In February last year, I underwent a major operation. I woke up with one side of my face drooping and slobbering my words. I had suffered a stroke during the operation and had dysarthria, which is mechanical difficulty in speaking caused by numbness of lips, tongue and sometimes the vocal chords, not to be confused with aphasia which is difficulty in formulating coherent words and sentences.

I will give myself marks. My attitude was, "I have at least woken up. Let's build on that." Some six days later, I found that I could speak again, but my Welsh accent, which previously had been fairly muted, was now much more marked, to the extent that fellow patients on the ward found me to be incomprehensible. The accent has since faded once more into the background, but I sometimes joke that my accent is evidence of brain damage.

The stroke management team at the hospital seemed to lose interest in my case when I could pronounce "dysarthria".

Imcidentally, my accent originated with my mother's family, who are from the same part of Wales that gave us Richard Burton, Anthony Hopkins, Martin Sheen and presumably other members of the acting Taffia. However, except for brief periods, I have always lived in England.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 03:25 PM

Ah yes Tattie, I eventually managed to identify quite a few Scots accents from different regions when I lived 'up there'. But I'm sure there are dozens more I never quite distinguished. And how interesting that you (Suffolk) and your husband (West Country) are both thought to be from the same place!
You're right that Norfolk folk elongate their vowels. I had a much-loved neighbour in our last village who was very houseproud. She was always tut-tutting at the mucky houses she'd been in. Apparently they were, as she said, "Contaaaaaaaaaaaminated." My husband picked this word up, and as he's a school cleaner, he often comes home saying,"Them blooming boys' toilets were contaaaaaminated!" (With a hint of an African-French accent too of course)

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 02:45 PM

I used to work in what was then the DVLC in Morrison near Swansea (had its own folk club!).
After a couple of years I could tell which valley people were from. I would not be able to do it today.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 12:35 PM

We have the same problem with friends up here in Scotland, Senofou: I have some of my Suffolk accent left, and my husband has his Devon one, but people assume we come from the same place! To me they are quite different! They don't roll the rrrs in Suffolk as they do in Devon - just elongate the vowels, as you do in your phonetic Norfolk!
But then, when we first came to live in Scotland - 35 years ago now - I couldn't distinguish all the Scots regional variations. I now know the Weegies (Glaswegians)from the Aberdonians and Edinburghers, and the Western isles from Orkney and Shetland. But my friends in West Lothian can tell if someone is from the next town 5 miles away!

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 05:44 AM

I remember Charlie Yarwood recounting that Mervyn Vincet had told him he was going to call tourists hemorroids from now on.
The reasoning was that they weren't wanted, came down in bunches and were a pain in the arse!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 04:58 AM

Wot Dick said. Emmets means ants. That's what streams of tourists swarming down yer in summer remind us of.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 03:36 AM

Just to add, some people try to copy 'Norfolk' speech but end up using the Somerset accent. We are indeed 'carrot crunchers' here in Norfolk, (rural/farming folk) but the accent is very different from that of the west of England.
Loved the idea of annoying grockles by doing a Morris dance routine with ones car! Bit dangerous though hee hee.
We're 'inundairted' here at the moment with tourists at the coast (Yarmouth etc) and they chuck litter all over the place, plus cause parking problems. Ah well. If they're from that there Lunnon, yew dew feel a bit saary fer them dornt yew?

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 03:31 AM

Last night I was enjoying the TV channel of old 70s & 80s pop music, and on came 'Ernie - He drove the fastest milkcart in the West' with Benny Hill. He was actually born in Southampton (Hampshire) but he had the Somerset accent off to a T. Also, the Wurzels (Oi've got a brand new combine 'arvester') I find both these songs hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 03:31 AM

The first tme I heard ‘grockle’ was from locals in Hastings, East Sussex.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 03:23 AM

Grockle was Somerset as well.
Grocklebusting was the practice employed by the local fast car owning youths who would overtake a line of tourists, deliberately zooming past and inserting their car into the next space, one car at a time, even where you could overtake several at once. On one long straight you might overtake four cars in a balletic movement. A bit like some Northwest Morris dance moves!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 02:48 AM

grockle   devon for tourist
emmet. cornwall for holidaymaker

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:59 PM

There are even Radio program titles that are open to being misheard.
I was expecting a bunch of irate very old people when I heard "Crossing Continents" was about to be on.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 01:44 PM

I think a tax on Boris Johnson and attacks on fizzy lager would be quite acceptable

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Jos
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 06:30 AM

I frequently mishear/misunderstand what I hear on the radio even when it is pronounced correctly. For example, "a tax on" is indistinguishable from "attacks on" - both of which occur often in news broadcasts.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 05:57 AM

I keep hearing that something has decayed and then realise that they mean the noun decade.

As a general rule nouns have the stress on the first sylable and verbs on the second.

Quite a few words get said the wrong way; project was one I heard the other day.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:59 AM

;-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:53 AM

Yes, you do wonder whether our language is deteriating... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:20 AM

There are plenty of other BBC presenters whose pronunciation is far from perfect. We hear about ‘shtreets’, or ‘shtudents’ frequently from the traffic-reporter on the Ken Bruce programme, ‘Febuary’, ‘Wensday’, ‘sikth’, ‘restauranteur’, ‘mischiev-i-ous’, etc., etc. regularly on other shows and news programmes.

So I wonder why that fat, greasy, plummy-mouthed ball-bag has chosen to single out as the sole victim of his venom and vitriol a young, attractive ex-international sportswoman, who is currently carving out a successful new career for herself? Presumably he objects to ‘common people’ like her getting ‘above her station’?

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Allan Conn
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:04 AM

I must admit apart from if someone comes out with a word like "squit" I struggle to tell a Norfolk accent from a west country type accent - but my wife can tell the difference straight away. I can tell by her grimace if an actor is getting Norfolk wrong. She herself seemingly has a bit of peculiar accent now though I don't notice it but hr friends from down south do. You can still tell she is English but after 33 years with me her vocab is littered with Scotticisms. So to her Norfolk friends she sounds Scottish but to folk up here she doesn't. When she moved up at first about 33 years ago she did speak like a bit like an English newsreader. Whenever my clients would phone the house and Claire answered I would later have them saying "how did you get such a posh wife" but she honestly wasn't posh she just didn't have any regional accent at all.

My sister and brother-in-law moved from Jedburgh here in the Borders down to Durham about 30 odd years ago too. He has a strange mix-max of Durham and Borders now whereas she speaks exactly the same as she did all those years ago. She is quite broad Border Scots speaking really but you can get away with it in the north-east of England as their dialect isn't that different.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 03:41 AM

Call You & Yours on BBC Radio 4 today at 12.18 might be of interest to some.

Call You & Yours: Do people treat you differently because of your accent?

The crossbench peer Lord Digby Jones has criticised presenter Alex Scott's pronunciation during BBC coverage of the Olympics. He objected to the way that the TV presenter and former professional footballer drops the letter 'g'. He tweeted: Enough! I can’t stand it anymore! Competitors are NOT taking part in the fencin, rowin, boxin, kayakin, weightliftin & swimmin.

Alex Scott responded saying she's proud of her accent and working-class, east London roots.

We want to know: do people treat you differently because of your accent?

Perhaps you've felt the need to change the way you speak in order to get on in the workplace, or in social circles. Or do you have an accent that has opened doors for you? What assumptions do you think people have made about you, because of the way you speak?

Call You & Yours

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 05:08 PM

Ha, Allan there's a similar story aboot the wee laddie hae'in' tae explain himself tae the heidie in Billy Kay's book: "Scots - the Mither Tongue".
Now, I'm another of those who is stuck with the accent of their childhood, though maybe it is nowhere near as broad as it was. I was brought up first in Essex, to age 9, then Suffolk, and when I first went to Uni in London, was laughed at for my "local yokel" accent. 7 years in the East End of London may have Cocknified it a bit, as well as adding a few of the old Yiddish phrases, as the East End still then had a sizeable Jewish population. After London, Sussex for 3 years, Devon for 3, Cheshire and Shropshire for 7, back to Suffolk for 2 years (hooray!) before moving to Scotland 35 years ago.
Despite our long stay in Scotland, and my mother being Scottish, I don't have a Scottish accent, though I have acquired a lot of Scottish phraseology from my Scots-speaking freens here - muckle mair than I ever learned frae ma mither! And I have no idea what my mother's accent was: she having been born in Aberdeen but brought up in Greenock!
I think that the majority of people don't change their accent much beyond their teenage years: a few exceptions, as with your friend acquiring the Kiwi accent, Steve. We certainly saw changes in our daughter's accent, who went from Shropshire sing-song to broad Suffolk, but changed very rapidly after we moved to Scotland when she was 9: didn't want to be called "that English girl" at school!
As for the "dumbing down" or homogenising of accents, my husband, a Devonian, also feels that the proper job Devon accent is being steadily diluted by all the people from London and Brum who move down to the West Country: but even his own accent is far less broad than that of his old pals who have continued to live in Devon throughout their lives.
And as for disliked accents, my mother was mortified when my sister and I developed our Suffolk accents! I just love to hear it, Norfolk as well, Senofou: it's a very difficult accent to imitate unless you have lived there: very few actors can do it convincingly: usually comes out as "standard BBC rural".

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 03:34 PM

Oh Allan I can so relate to this account! In the early seventies I was a newly-qualified teacher in Bruntsfield Primary School in Edinburgh.
I thank my lucky stars I have quite a good ear for accents and can imitate them, because I often felt the Scots did not like the fact I was English. (In 1973, John McGrath's 'The Cheviot The Stag And The Black Black Oil' came out and I attended a performance. My word, the anti-English atmosphere in the theatre was tangible!)
I spoke in a rather nice Miss Jean Brodie accent, and this plus my Scottish surname (a town up in Caithness) got me through the prejudice.
Also, when doing a spelling test with my pupils, it was obvious to me that words such as 'girl', 'pearl' and 'unfurl' were far better pronounced in 'Scottish'. I always said, girrul, perrril and unfurrrel which gave the children hints as to the spelling. (far better than geul,peul and unfeul which is how they sound in RP)

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Allan Conn
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 10:51 AM

There is quite an interesting piece in one book I have which shows how people often simply don’t recognise their own prejudices. It is a book called “Being English In Scotland” written by Murray Watson and it contains info compiled by Dundee Uni.

One of the people interviewed was Kenneth Silver who was the rector at Jedburgh Grammar School when I was there in the mid 70s. He is quoted talking about how incomers were received by us.

“Reaction to English born people was varied. Among the native pupils, many of whom spoke a slovenly form of English with broad vowels, there was a quite obvious reaction on occasions to those English born immigrants who joined them. Those with strong regional accents (eg cockney or West Midlands) were allegedly not able to be understood and they were often poorly mimicked and/or ridiculed”

I am sure he has a point in that kids are kids everywhere and can be cruel. However we were kids! He is a responsible adult who in the same paragraph as condemning how local children ridiculed regional accents actually calls the Borders dialect “slovenly English” and I imagine he saw no contradiction in that. He himself was English but in truth he didn’t need to be as there are plenty enough Scots who dislike how Scots speak too.

There was one incident that stuck in my mind though. Our normal History teacher was absent and Silver ended up taking the class. He got extremely annoyed with me for saying “aye” instead of “no” in fact so much so that I ended up getting detention. The deputy rector Alastair Allan, who I had a lot of time for, was taking the detention. When I entered he said “och laddie whit’ve ye been daein nou” which kind of made me laugh.

The daft thing of course was that as well as being the common word for “yes” in this area the word “aye” is a perfectly good word in Standard English too.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 05:37 AM

Exactly Jos, but it still takes an effort to translate the written word into that accent.
It is interesting that Richmal Crompton was brought up in Lancashire, moved to Derbyshire, taught in South East London and then started her writings.
I presume that it was the latter location that prompted her to give William that accent.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 05:00 AM

Lord Digby is an out-and-out SNOB.

Subject: RE: BS: Regional UK Accents
From: Jos
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 04:17 AM

Regarding 'The way she talks reminds me of the way Martin Jarvis reads the dialogue spoken by William when he tells the "Just William" stories on Radio 4.'

Martin Jarvis reads it that way because Richmal Crompton wrote it that way.