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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Jan 19 - 12:49 PM Apologies Leenia. Not an attempt at unpleasantness. An attempt at levity. Fennario still sounds more Italiante/Latin than Fyvie. I think places in folk songs are all a bit random. Think of Robert Johnson placing Chicago in the land of california. I can recall Peggy Seeger researching a military engagement that never happened in Pensacola, Florida, because it was referred to in a folk song. On these pages you will find several of the worthies above disagreeing with that the Doffing Mistress couldn't occur in Sheffield because its a Belfast song. Though anyone whose been to sheffield will tell you the place is full of Irish folk. Anyway - an apology seems to be called for. Please consider it tendered. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: leeneia Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:15 AM Who wants to read nine years' of posts and risk hitting more nasty stuff like Al Whittle's post from yesterday? |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,Henry Piper (of Ottery) Date: 24 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM Actius Aquila if you had bothered to read the previous nine years worth of posts, you could have saved yourself the effort of making your pointless post which has been discussed to death in those preceding posts !!! |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 Jan 19 - 11:26 PM Actually its a first declension Latin verb. Fennario Fennarias Fennariat Fennariamus Fennariatis Fennariant From Virgil's The Aeneid.... Fennario = I stick a feather up my ass and dance round the maypole (trans) |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,ActiusAquila Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:49 PM According to Wikipedia "Fennario" is actually from a Scottish folk song originally called "The Bonnie Lass o' Fyvie-o". The song has an American name, which is "Fennario". Fyvie is actually the name of a place in Scotland. The song was supposedly taken by Scottish immigrants to America, where over time the lyrics changed, as folk songs do, and "Fyvie" had to change to "Fennario" because the latter had three syllables and would fit the new lyrics. In other versions the same thing happend to "Ythanside" (Scottish river) which changed to "Ethanside", and "Braes o' Gight" (Gight being a place) which changed to "braesogight". |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 01 Oct 17 - 09:07 AM Point well taken, Richard, but "internal evidence" of this kind is rarely conclusive. Maybe a reviser really did do "a very good job of it." How likely or unlikely is that? It's impossible to know. If somebody did, they did. If not, not. Was there a "lost antecedent"? Also impossible to know from the texts alone. So we're back where we started, with little to go on but the earliest publication date. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Mellish Date: 30 Sep 17 - 05:53 AM > There's a lot to digest in Bruce's magisterial note to the song, but it looks as though the chapbook "Derby" version can be dated to the 1790s, but "Fyvie" not till 1828. > So "Derby" can be taken as the likely original, barring new discoveries, of course. The extant dateable copies certainly make "Derby" earlier than "Fyvie", but I was wondering whether that's the only evidence that way. On the basis of the internal evidence of the story as told in the songs, the Fyvie version seems to me to make better sense, with not merely a single place name being changed as was common with many ballads, but a whole string of local place names instead of the abrupt move from Derby to Ireland. If the Fyvie version was derived from the Derby version (or some lost antecedent of both) whoever did that made a very good job of it. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 29 Sep 17 - 06:11 PM There's a lot to digest in Bruce's magisterial note to the song, but it looks as though the chapbook "Derby" version can be dated to the 1790s, but "Fyvie" not till 1828. So "Derby" can be taken as the likely original, barring new discoveries, of course. As for the "corrections," they look like Bruce's attempt to improve a faulty (or faultily remembered) song with better phrases from another version. There's nothing wrong with that sort of editing so long as, like Bruce, you also indicate carefully what the original words were. Otherwise the evidence is misrepresented and the "corrected" song will confuse people who want to see the original text, warts and all. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Mellish Date: 29 Sep 17 - 03:58 PM I have some questions arising from this thread. Are the "corrections" made by Bruce Olson really correct? If so, what makes them more correct than the "original readings"? What is the evidence for Pretty Peggy of Derby being earlier than the Bonnie Lass of Fyvie? Does it make sense that the unsuccessful courtship was in Derby but the troop of soldiers proceeded next to Killarney? |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Mellish Date: 29 Sep 17 - 03:30 PM I'm surprised that no-one commented at the time on one bit of Matthew Edwards's 12 Jan 09 - 08:28 PM post: "The DNB has a record for Margaret Saunders, actress, (1686-1745). She was born in Dorset, Wiltshire ..." What!? Born in two different counties? It doesn't seem to refer to being born once in the normal way and then "reborn" into religion. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,Gerry Date: 28 Sep 17 - 09:06 PM Only on Mudcat could the simple question, "Where's Fennario?" lead to well over 100 posts. Anyway, back in July 2004, Shula noted that the Chad Mitchell Trio had recorded the song, and asked for the words to their version. In January 2014, Batty Kellen posted the Trio recording, with lyrics, to YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43tmYYYeA1s. The Trio recording gives a cause for the captain's death not mentioned in any of the versions previously posted to this thread: the colonel orders the troops to ride on, the captain suggests staying another day, and the colonel, enraged, shoots him. Where the Trio sourced this version, I cannot say. Here are the lyrics as posted by Batty Kellen. Batty's transcription is true to the pronunciations in the recording, which may not accord with the accepted spelling of the place names involved. I have not attempted to make any corrections. There once was a troop, of Irish Dragoons, Come marching down through Fyve-io. And the Captain fell in love, with a very bonny lass, As we marched through the bonny streets of Fyve-io The Captain's name was Ned, he was the pride of the Regiment, The bonniest lad in all of the Army-o. A very handsome sight, he was the ladies' own delight! As we marched though the bonny streets of Fyve-io. Well, I'll give you ribbons, love, and I'll give you rings, I'll give you a necklace of amber-o, If you'll come on down the stair, and comb back your yellow hair, And we'll march through the bonny streets of Fyve-io. There's many a bonny lass, in the town of Achterlass, Aye, there's many a bonny lassie in the Geary-o, There's many a bonny jean, in the streets of Aberdeen! But the flow'r of them all lives in Fyve-io. "Mount up!" the Colonel cried, "and it's o'er the bray we'll ride, Down from the Hielans to Fenario." "Well, it's tarry another day," we heard our Captain say, As we marched through the bonny streets of Fyve-io. The Colonel in his rage, drew his pistol and took aim, At the bonniest lad in all of the army-o. He fired a deadly ball, and our Captain, he did fall, As we marched through the bonny streets of Fyve-io. It was lang ere we left, the town of Achterlass, We had our young Captain to carry-o. And lang ere we came in to bonny Aberdeen, That we had our young Captain there to bury-o. There once was a troop, of Irish Dragoons, Come marchin' down through Fyve-io, And the Captain fell in love, with a very bonny lass, As we marched through the bonny streets of Fyve-io. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,lou Judson Date: 28 Sep 17 - 08:44 PM RE: Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,Emerson Bigguns Date: 26 Sep 17 - 09:13 AM Fennario? Why, it's just up the main road a ways, you just head North-Northwest past the big lake, then you bear left at the fork where the rock juts out from the trees and follow it all the way through the holler - bam! You're there. If this is typical of old country directions, the lake is now a shopping center, the rock was removed and now there's a hotel, and the holler is now a spa. Bam you're there but would never know! |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Joe_F Date: 28 Sep 17 - 06:07 PM The OED confirms Greg Stephens's guess, long ago, that "hautboy" was pronounced "ho-boy". In fact, it was often spelled "hoboy". The Italians spelled it "oboe", and we took that form in & gave it an English spelling pronunciation that renders it unintelligible to Italians *and* to Frenchmen. Such are the ways of English. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,Emerson Bigguns Date: 26 Sep 17 - 09:13 AM Fennario? Why, it's just up the main road a ways, you just head North-Northwest past the big lake, then you bear left at the fork where the rock juts out from the trees and follow it all the way through the holler - bam! You're there. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST Date: 06 Jun 12 - 01:22 PM 'Till Captain Neddy persished from Ma-lerry-O.... |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Mike in Brunswick Date: 17 Jan 12 - 10:49 PM If you type "Fennario" into the Google Earth Search box, you get 16 hits, including 6 in West Chester, Pennsylvania and 4 in Montreal. Only two of the hits actually have "Fennario" in their titles - a restaurant in West Chester and an art gallery in Eugene, Oregon. It's not clear to me why the others come up. You're most welcome. Mike |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:58 PM Maybe it's near "Fiunary." |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:33 PM Here's how I sing it nowadays. It is my belief that a song should make sense and that rhythm and rhyme should be respected. That leaves out rhyming Derby with Killarney. It requires new names; Mary to rhyme with Fennari, and Danny, the closest I could think of to 'angry.' My version is based quite a bit on a song by the Battlefield Band. As we march-ed down to Fennario repeat Captain fell in love with a lady like a dove, and the name she was called was lovely Mary-o. Come go along with me, lovely Mary-o [how can we resist singing "come go"?] repeat in coaches you shall ride with your true love by your side as grand as any lady in the are-o. Come trippin down the stair lovely Mary-o repeat come trippin down the stair combing back your yellow hair and bid a fond farewell to your mother-o. What would your mother think, lovely Mary-o repeat what would your mother think for to hear the guineas clink and the soldiers all a marchin a-fore you oh? How can I come down, Captain Danny-o? repeat how can I come down when I'm locked here in my room and a great deep well beneath my window? [She let him down gently, aware that he kills people for a living.] I love you most of all Captain Danny-o repeat I love you most of all but your fortune is too small. I'm afraid that my mother would be angry-o. Our captain he is dead, lovely Mary-o repeat our captain he is dead, and he died for a maid and he's buried in the Lousiana country o. If ever we return to Fennerio repeat If ever we return, that city we shall we burn and ravage all the ladies in the are-o. [play a breakdown[ repeat first verse, gently. ============ This is a nice tune on my dulcimer. There's a novel by Jane Austen where there are four daughters in the family, and two of them are far too bedazzled by the local soldiers. Is it Pride and Prejudice? Anyhow, reading it puts this song in a broader context. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST Date: 17 Jan 12 - 05:18 PM Good grief! I read the whole thread, without finding the answer. But it was fun. Thanks to all the contributors! |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,Phil Date: 13 Jan 09 - 06:58 PM Fennario is in Mexico. Apparently it was not well regarded by early European explorers as it's original name, Ario, was usually pronounced Eff'n Ario which simply became Fenario in later years. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:43 PM Cheating! |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Leadfingers Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:39 PM 100 ! |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Leadfingers Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:39 PM Nine years , this has been going on ! Just another example of the Folk Process ?? |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:06 PM It's very interesting that these recent diggings (and I do very much appreciate the information) seem to point to a London origin, not an Irish one. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 13 Jan 09 - 10:57 AM I suppose one possible answer to the question "Where's Fennario/Fernario?" it could be that the name is a misremembering (or "folk processing") of "Killarney O" in the original. Not many Appalachian folks in the late 19th century would have been familar with "Killarney." It would be interesting to compare the earliest "Fennario" versions with the "Killarney" versions tosee just how similar they are. That might clinch the matter. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Jan 09 - 10:31 PM Nice find, Lighter. This site Early American Secular Music and Its European Sources, 1589–1839: An Index (EASMES) suggests that the 1782 source for that text and tune is Twenty Four Country Dances for the Year 1782 published in London by T. Skillern. There is a manuscript copy at the New England Historical Genealogical Society, Boston Mass., and an original under our noses all this time at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at Cecil Sharp House! T. Skillern published a series of Twenty Four Country Dances for the Year..., With proper Directions to each Dance for the years 1768 [Printed for T Straight and Skillern], 1787, 1788, 1791, 1796, and 1799 but the edition for 1782 isn't catalogued elsewhere. Matthew Edwards |
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Subject: Lyr Add: PRETTY PEGGY OF DARBY-O From: Lighter Date: 12 Jan 09 - 09:34 PM Fascinating, Matthew. By chance, this website http://www.outoftheordinarymusic.com/ott.html offers the lyrics of a "Pretty Peggy of Darby O" whose first line is identical to that in the Bodleian (but unfortunately not in the online Bodleian Ballads collection). It comes from a Boston, Mass., broadside: There was a Gay Captain in Darby Town, And he was come a Recruiting O: A Pretty Chambermaid his Heart soon betrayed, And she was called sweet Peggy O. And she was called sweet Peggy O. O come down the stairs with your golden Hair, O come down to me said the Captain O; For I to Killarney must now haste away Then bid me farewell pretty Peggy O. Then bid me farewell pretty Peggy O. The Damsel replied you need teize me no more; You are not the man to my fancy O; I will not be ty'd to be a soldier's bride, So you may be gone now for Peggy O. So you may be gone now for Peggy O. Never heed her disdain said his Brother so bold, She is not worth your regarding O; There'll be fair girls enow who their hearts will bestow, When you come to the Town of Killarney O. When you come to the Town of Killarney O. Then over the ocean they soon sail'd away, And safe they arrived at Killarney O; Yet tho' so far away he was often heard to say Here's a Health to the Pretty girl of Darby O. Here's a Health to the Pretty girl of Darby O. Sweet Peggy still ran in the Captains mind, No other he thought was so charming O; Love alone fill'd his breast that he never could rest, And he died for the Pretty girl of Darby O. And he died for the Pretty girl of Darby O. I almost forgot: the original song sheet ("c1782")evidently includes the tune! And there's a nice sound clip too! All in all this text and tune must be at scarcely more than one remove from the original. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Jan 09 - 08:28 PM Its late at night and I'm in between shifts at work so I apologise for returning yet again to this topic. However the English Short Title Catalogue (ESTC) and the COPAC catalogue have turned up a very intriguing result. The virtuous maid of the inn; or the entertaining history of Margaret Saunders, commonly called pretty Peggy of Derby... is a chapbook in octavo with 32 pages published by B Talbot, London (1790?). It was also published in quarto for W Clements and J Sadler, London, 1790 and for the same W Clements and J Sadler in octavo in 1791 with the note on page 3 "Pretty Peggy of Derby O ... some account of her history, and the reason of acquiring the appellation of Pretty Peggy of Derby O". Another, much later printing is by Alice Swindells, Manchester, c.1830. The DNB has a record for Margaret Saunders, actress, (1686-1745). She was born in Dorset, Wiltshire and acted at the Haymarket and Drury Lane theatres in London between 1707 and 1720. What, if anything, she had to do with Pretty Peggy of Derby awaits discovery... Matthew Edwards |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 12 Jan 09 - 08:07 PM Anon., "The Songster's Magazine: Being a Choice Collection of the Newest Songs, Sung at Ranelaugh and Vauxhall Gardens, the Theatres Royal, and All Other Places of Public Entertainment" (London: R. Coster, n.d., p. 7 [dated by the British Library "1785?"; all spellings and punctuation sic]: Pretty Peggy of Derby There was a regiment of Irish Dragoons, They was all marching to Derby O, The Captain fell in love with a young chambermaid, And her name it was called Pretty Peggy O. Oh! come down stairs Pretty Peggy O, Oh! come down stairs Pretty Peggy O, Oh! come down stairs and go back with yellow hair Take the last farewell of your darling O. I tell you now as I told you before, And for what should you teaze me any more, What will your mammy think, when she hears you are sick And the hautboys a playing before you go, A Soldier's wife I never will be, And a Soldier shall never lie in bed with me, For I will make him stond with his hat in hand When he stands in presence of my company. Then spoke his brother, a stout young man, A valiant soldier as he were, Saying, If she'll not go, we shall have sweethearts anew, When we come to the Town of Killarny O. When we come to the water that runs so clear, That joins to the town of Killarney O. The Captain sigh'd and said we are many miles away, Here's a health to the pretty Girl of Derby O. When they did come to the last town, The town that they call Killarney O, His name was Captain Wade and he died for a maid, And he died for the pretty girl of Derby O. (This text seems to me to be a little too clumsy and confused to be an accurate transcription of a song sung on the stage. Bruce Olson's text here http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/SONGTXT1.HTM#PEGDRBY may or may not be from a few years later. That text is very much the same as what I reproduce above, but a bit less confused in the middle.) |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:42 PM Lighter, thanks for the reminder. George Colman (the younger) 1762-1836 was the author of Jenny linkum feedle, Inkle and Yarico and The Quadrapeds of Quedlinburgh and many other successful dramas at his theatre in the Haymarket, London. According to the DNB; "While still at King's,[=King's College, Aberdeen] Colman completed his second play, Two to One, late in 1783. It reached the boards at the Little Haymarket on 21 June 1784 and achieved a respectable run of nineteen evenings." This dates the tune of Peggy of Derby-O as being known in 1783 even if the words by Colman which Olson quotes under the title of The Dandy-O are not "one of his better efforts"! Matthew Edwards |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: paula t Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:33 PM I love the Richard Shindell song. Extremely haunting. We watched him perform it live on his last tour here. Sarah turned to me halfway through with tears in her eyes and just whispered "Wow...." Well worth more than one listen. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 12 Jan 09 - 05:50 PM And who knew that David Fennario is a prominent Canadian playwright? (His name was David Wipers but he changed it.) |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 12 Jan 09 - 05:44 PM P. 11 of George Colman's "Songs, duetts, trios, &c. in the new comedy of Two to one. As performed at the Theatre-Royal, in the Hay-Market," 4th edition. (London, 1785), has an original song to the tune of "Peggy of Derby-O." The melody is unfortunately not printed and the song (in the same meter as the one we're talking about) isn't very intresting. Nor does it mention anything like "Fennario." |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:54 PM Sorry! I pressed 'Submit' before 'Preview' in earlier post. I'm fairly certain that Greg somewhere has provided the satnav directions to Fennario - go straight on through Scarlett Town, and then turn left at Bucklesfordbery. If you reach Ballyjamesduff the you've gone too far. I'm surprised that since the late Bruce Olson posted all his information 9 years ago about the earliest versions of Pretty Peggy-O nobody has managed to check other copies of his source. Bruce Olson in his Scarce Songs cited copies in the Library of Congress and Harvard Library of the "chapbook type songster" The Winter's Amusement; and Jolly Toper's Companion which contains the song Pretty Peggy of Derby O. The copies are apparently imperfect, but the Harvard copy had the imprint '42, Long Lane' which he associated with the printers Howard and Evans, and J Evans about 1794. According to the English Short Title Catalogue thare are copies of The Winter's Amusement; and Jolly Toper's Companion at the British Library and the Bodleian, as well as Illinois and Newberry. Apparently there is a clearer imprint "Printed and Sold by J Evans" with a provisional dating of 1795(?). If anyone is able to examine any of these copies it might give a more complete text than Bruce was able to provide for this earliest version of the song. Matthew Edwards |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:33 PM I'm fairly certain that Greg somewhere has provided the satnav directions to Fennario - go straight on through Scarlett Town, and then turn left at Bucklesfordbery. If you reach Ballyjamesduff the you've gone too far. I'm surprised that since the late Bruce Olson posted all his information 9 years ago about the earliest versions of Pretty Peggy-O nobody has managed to check other copies of his source. Bruce Olson cited copies in the Library of Congress and Harvard Library of the "chapbook type songster" The Winter's Amusement; and Jolly Toper's Companion which contains the song Pretty Peggy of Derby O. The copies are apparently imperfect, but the Harvard copy had the imprint '42, Long Lane' which he associated with the printers |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:21 PM It is not necessary to become a Wiki contributor. I corrected a reference to the former public house the Rose and Crown in Stoke Road Allhallows only a few weeks go. The pub (a grade II listed building, now being convereted to a house) was established as a pub in 1432, but the entry stated it was Georgian. At one stage it had a tunnel to the church. It also housed the church altar table during the reformation to protect it from the King's men. The whole entry about Stoke has now been re-edited and my reference lost. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: PoppaGator Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:38 PM "Anyone" can edit Wikipedia articles ~ anyone, that is, who has bothred to apply and become a Wiki contributor. Surely some MC member has taken that step ~ no? Is there a volunteer to patch up what they have currently posted about this song, and this imaginary locale? (Not me, thank you; I figure perhaps someone who cares more than I about these historical-accuracy issues might be interested.) My favorite part of this old thread occurred back on 02 May 03 - 10:34 PM when leeneia offered her interpretation and described her arrangement. That made a lot of sense to me, and I remain in her corner through the ensuing argument. I think she's absolutely right about interpreting the motivations and actions of imaginary characters. I also like the part about Before I read this thread, I assumed that (for some reason that, upon examination, made no sense at all) Fennario was somewhere in the vicinity of Pretoria, which would place it in South Africa if I'm not mistaken... |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Lighter Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:49 PM Malcolm says, "the piece is a strange mixture of sensible analysis and utter nonsense....Wikipedia is not in itself a reliable source of information and articles in it carry no particular authority." Allow me to endorse his words unequivocally. Wikipedia can be very useful, but only as a firststep. Referring to it as a source of knowledge is basically like asking a question of somebody at a party and then taking the answer as Truth from Above. You gotta check everything with a named reliable source. Named authors don't want to be wrong (though of course they can be), while anonymous posters have little reason to care. Unfortunately the level of thought and scholarship regarding traditional music (individual pieces especially) has been so wildly uneven over the decades that the relevant Wikipedia articles are probably even less trustworthy than most. Well-meaning but poorly informed fans love to post speculation as fact. My guess is that Mudcat is far more reliable than Wikipedia because skeptics seem quicker to respond here than at the Wiki. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:45 PM See my link to Bruce Olson's commentary a couple of posts (and nearly 3 years) ago for the best information available. Evidently the anonymous writer of the Wikipedia entry relied overmuch on misinformation posted in old Mudcat threads and outdated comment in books published a century ago rather than tackle the subject properly: the piece is a strange mixture of sensible analysis and utter nonsense. As I've said many times before, Wikipedia is not in itself a reliable source of information and articles in it carry no particular authority. The same, of course, is true of the Mudcat (though not infrequently you'll find very good information available here, if you are able to distinguish it from the dross) - any web-based resource that allows anonymous or pseudonymous contributions and doesn't distinguish between those who know what they are talking about and those who don't will inevitably spread at least as much falsehood as truth. Bruce was a considerable scholar, and the evidence he presents for an Irish origin of the tune seems indisputable; given the current state of knowledge, though, I'd suggest that the earliest surviving form of the words ('Pretty Peggy of Derby') can't yet be ascribed with equal certainty. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: greg stephens Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:56 PM Richard Bridge: do you have any links/documentation on that claim? Derby is the earliest place I have found in connection with that song/tune, but I am willing to to learn more. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Richard Bridge Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:51 PM I was rummaging around the other night and found the Wikipedia section about this song, and it needs correction in that it seems to assert that the scottish version (Fyvio) is the earlier. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:47 PM The trouble with long threads is that people will post to them without bothering to read them first. Just occasionally they will add new and useful information, but usually they just repeat what has already been said; and that will often, as in the case of "hawkerlad", who revived the thread this time round, mean repeating -as fact- romantic assertions for which there is not, so far as can be told, a shred of evidence. Then, in turn, others must repeat such accurate details as have already appeared, and so it continues in interminable and ever more confusing circles. My link to the late Bruce Olson's material on the song, given above (some years ago) no longer works; since his death, it has been archived at the University of Fresno (and at Mudcat, but that is not always working). See instead Pretty Peggy of Derby, O for the most accurate information on the history and background that you are likely to find online; or, perhaps, anywhere else. Bruce was a considerable scholar, far exceeding anyone else represented in this old thread. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:41 PM Malaria was known as the ague, and was common in these islands. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: greg stephens Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:04 PM As this thread gets longer and longer, I will just add a comment made much earlier: as far as I know the earliest known versions of this song locate young Peggy in Derby, England. Though the Scottish Fyvie version is certainy the most comprehensive geographically, with its Meldrum, Fyvie, Ythan side ,Braes of Gight and the Garioch. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: hawkerlad Date: 05 Mar 06 - 09:47 AM Fyvie, as has already been mentioned is in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. This song dates back to the era of The Marqius of Montrose, at the time of the, "covenanters," and civil war between King Charles and Parliment.(Circa 1644) After his victories in Aberdeenshire, he was set to march on Aberdeen. He promised not to send his Irish troops, who were seen as savages by the locals, into Aberdeen, but found himsel having to go back on his word, and to cover this, mounted them and called them dragoons. Can't say if Malaria was a problem in rural Aberdeenshire in the 17th century or not, but I doubt it since I saw my first mosquito last year at the age of 56. I've always though it was too cold here for the little bu**ers. Global warming? Incidentally - in "our," local version, "lady like a dove," is nowhere to be seen. The Captain's fa'in in love wi' a bonny, bonny lass, And her name it is cried Pretty Peggy O. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,jabrams@optonline.net Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:28 PM Actually, I always wondered if Cpt Ned died from Malaria. Green grow the birks on bonnie Ethanside And low lie the lowlands of Fyvie-O The captain's name was Ned and he died for a maid He died for the bonny lass of Fyvie-O Wasn't the area around Fyve known for it and only cleared much later? |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST,me Date: 29 Jan 05 - 11:03 PM must be from England area guinea SYLLABICATION: guin·ea PRONUNCIATION: gn NOUN: 1. abbr. g. a. A gold coin issued in England from 1663 to 1813 and worth one pound and one shilling |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: GUEST Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:15 PM First time I heard Peggy-O was Hoyt Axton's version in the early 60's. Has anyone a copy of his lyrics? Axton is generally true to original lyrics. If anyone out there hasn't heard his rendition, I suggest getting your hands on it. Powerful is an understatement. Haven't heard Dylan's version - I fell blessed. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: chris nightbird childs Date: 19 Jan 05 - 12:20 AM Yes, it is. As Max said above. It's not far away from my house... I was thinking about going down to the open mike, performing a couple tunes, and meeting the man. |
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Subject: RE: Where's Fennario? From: michaelr Date: 18 Jan 05 - 08:40 PM Guest evildoll asserts that Fennario is in Pennsylvania. Any truth to that? Cheers, Michael |
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