BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis

Subject: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 07:47 PM

Don't give a flying fart about PC, and I'm not even a tennis fan. But I wish to say that Emma is bright, Emma is beautiful, Emma is the most smiley sporty person I've seen for years, Emma has true guts and Emma is going to do our country a ton of good in these dark times. I mean, wow. Go, Emma, and never let capitalism grind you down!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 02:59 AM

‘Our’ Emma?? Oh, you mean the girl born in Canada of Romanian and Chinese parents? Not even as ‘British’ as Greg Rusedski who, although born in Montreal QC, did at least have one British parent.

Not trying to detract from her rising star - a beautiful, graceful, talented young athlete she most certainly is, an absolute joy to watch on and off the courts, and an inspiration to other aspiring young sportsmen and women, but hardly ‘home-grown’! Under the circumstances, ‘our’ really does stretch it a bit, don’cha fink?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 03:55 AM

To me, BWM, that makes her the perfect British citizen! Bit of everything :-) If only other people would realise that the keep Britain Britsh thing fell by the wayside when the first people crossed the land bridge from Europe. We have been accepting other people ever since and since the Raducanu family were welcomed into this country they are as British as you and I.

Maybe they should be sent home? Damned foreigners coming here, driving lorries, picking fruit, winning sporting trophies...

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 04:04 AM

Hee hee Dave, not to mention blooming West Africans marrying our white women! :)
I think Emma is fabulous and an excellent role model for the youth of today. So upbeat, stalwart, cheery, and of course, an excellent tennis player. I love her to bits!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 04:43 AM

Good grief, she's been here since she was TWO, John!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 04:45 AM

It's been a joy to watch these two teenagers fight their way through to today's final, they both possess such fun, aggressive styles with Raducanu being the first qualifier ever to make it to the semis in the Open era.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 07:20 AM

Ha! Come on Dave, you know me better than that - I’m a true believer in Free Movement and I love the diversification of our U.K. population that we’ve seen in our recent history and despite the racism of Brexit and its supporters. I’m taking huge pleasure in Emma Raducanu’s success, and I’ll be screaming at the TV in support of her during the match tonight - exactly as I have done throughout this competition and during this year’s Wimbledon.

But I don’t see her as uniquely ‘ours’ - three other nations are entitled to make a claim, however slight, on her being ‘theirs’ too, her country of birth first and foremost, but to a lesser degree the countries of her parents’ births.

And, TBH, I’d take the same pleasure in watching her play even if she declared any other country than the UK as her nationality. She’s a major-talent-in-the-making, an absolute delight to watch and follow her success, and calling her ‘ours’ makes no difference whatsoever to that IMHO.

A Flag-Shagger I am not.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 07:37 AM

I don't recall anyone saying she is uniquely ours or complaining about anyone else associating with her, John. Bit of a straw man you are putting up there.

Putting it simply, she is as British as any of us and as we are all members of this wonderful inclusive club I feel quite entitled to call her ours:-)

I dread the moment when she first stumbles though and wonder what the rabid Daily Mailers will turn her into then :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 07:54 AM

Hmmm…nowhere have I said she’s not entitled to call herself British. Read the thread title Dave, and think carefully about your own Straw Man! ;-)

I watched her through the rounds at Wimbledon, and I was heartbroken for her when she had to retire in the semis. Heartbroken, not because she didn’t win - as a former not-especially-good-but-very-keen sportsman in several disciplines I’m well-versed in the art of losing well - but because of the manner of her exit. I can’t claim to know what was going on but, to this non-expert in psychology/physiology, it looked very much like a panic attack. Whatever, it was very sad, and it’s amazing to see how she appears to have recovered, and come out of it all the stronger for the experience.

I’ll be raring to go at 9pm tonight, fired-up, and willing Emma on. And who knows, I might even allow myself the luxury of a little bit of national pride!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 08:34 AM

It's on Channel 4, folks!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 08:48 AM

Or Amazon Prime… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 08:51 AM

Yes but it's free to air on Channel 4. A good scoop in m'humble.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 08:54 AM

Bloody tennis.. my wife is obsessed and can get quite aggressive
if I merely suggest watching something different on another TV channel...

So I try to be patient, and put up with the never ending

"shush !!!.. it's nearly finished..."

4 hours later.. "shush !!!.. it's nearly finished..."........


Regarding sporting nationalism..

Britain is so desperate for a winning tennis champion
Daily Mail Readers will reluctantly accept putting up with anyone from anywhere
if they can beat all the other foreigners on our behalf...

I'd love to see the look on their gammon faces
if tennis loving brexiteers were told Emma Raducanu has Romanian Gypsy blood in her heritage...

Please god, let that be so...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 09:11 AM

It clashes with the second half of the Last Night Of The Proms. Grr... Maybe Emma will win it just in time for us to sing Land Of Hope And Glory. How fitting that would be! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 09:13 AM

I did read the title, John, which is why I said I feel quite entitled to call her ours. I suspect we are at cross purposes and not wishing to get any further involved in pointless semantics I shall gracefully withdraw :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 09:34 AM

She was a toddler here, she went to primary school here, she went to secondary school here, she learned her tennis here. One of us!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 10:02 AM

Is young Emma a UK citizen yet? If so, she's yours and you're stuck with her however she performs. Since she was born in Toronto, she was already a subject of Her Maj when she arrived, although the Canadian passport doesn't say so any more.

I have been following the adventures of "our" Leylah Fernandez in the same tournament. Born in Montreal of Ecuadoran refugee parents and currently a resident of Boynton Beach, Florida, she is a typical successful Canadian. Her Dad is all over the papers being over the moon.

Incidentally, these two young athletes are working out yet another phase of the age-old Montreal v Toronto rivalry that formed eastern Canada as we know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 10:29 AM

I find it interesting that the news headlines are just as keen on talking about her as talking about the 20th anniversary of the twin towers attack.
The second thought is that niether of the contestants in the tennis match had been born when that happened. So, this is news as opposed to the "olds" that we get so much of.

Good luck to both of them (but with a bias to "Our Emma").

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 10:38 AM

Yeah, well, Robin, the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon did not happen in Britain, now, did it? Or, indeed, Canada, although airspace in this country was also closed and our airfields had to catch most of the flights that were diverted from American destinations.

The navel of the world may have relocated to the United States, but we don't have to spend *all* our time gazing into it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 11:02 AM

I dunno if she is a UK citizen, Charmion, but as she has been here since she was 2, has been educated here and trained here in her chosen field, I don't think it matters much :-) As the son of a Polish immigrant who was proud to be accepted as a British citizen I like to think that the British people, for all their faults, do welcome others with open arms.

What tickled me not long ago though was our press reaction to another tennis start - Andy Murray. When he was winning he was British but whenever he lost he regained his native Scottish nationality :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 12:55 PM

”I did read the title, John, which is why I said I feel quite entitled to call her ours. I suspect we are at cross purposes and not wishing to get any further involved in pointless semantics I shall gracefully withdraw :-) “

No problem Dave, it’s very interesting to hear different sides in a discussion, especially when the other person has your kind of personal experience.

I almost completely agree with you, my only difference seems to be that I strongly believe that, when representing a country, a sportsman/woman should be a native of that country, born there.

Perhaps I’m out of step with others here - it doesn’t bother me one jot, I’ve spent the past 24 years being the guy who’s out of step, I’m very well accustomed to it! ;-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 01:03 PM

24 years? If only! That 2 should be a 7! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 03:17 PM

Anyway.. two traditional British fingers up to the nationalists...!!!

Tennis players doing it for their country...???

Bollocks.. they do it for themselves and their own personal fortunes...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 03:25 PM

I don't mind anyone being out of step as long as it doesn't affect the whole platoon:-) In this day and age I think it unreasonable to expect an accident of birth to dictate who people represent in their chosen field. Globalisation, migration and even asylum moves people in ways that have never occurred before. In the worst case, would you expect an Afghan child, taken to safety by their parents 20 years ago, to return to that country to represent them at anything? Of course not.

People should be able to, within reason, chose their own nationality and where they live rather than be forced to an identity that was none of their own doing.

But, hey,that's just this child of the universe talking :-D

Anyway, she's on court in half an hour. COME ON EMMA!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 04:29 PM

Good points Dave. I just fear that your approach to the issue will result in the dilution and debasement of the system of national representation and, ultimately, render it meaningless.

But hey, we disagree - I’m fine with that, let’s leave it there, there’s a game of tennis to watch! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 04:31 PM

For ‘debasement’ please read ‘diminution’ - I thought of one word but typed a different one!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 04:37 PM

The match has now started, after much preamble. So, Emma’s opponent is Canadian: and to keep BWM happy, she was born in Montreal. But she has a Hispanic-sounding name but looks Asian: her father is from Ecuador and her mother is described as Filipino Canadian. I don’t have a problem with any of that, given that the world is getting smaller and more multi-racial all the time: in the words of the song “It’s a great big melting pot”. Now excuse me while I watch the match, and COME ON EMMA!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 06:13 PM

Just...

WOW

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 06:15 PM

I see that Toronto has clobbered Montreal; Leylah Fernandez is out of the tournament and Emma Radcanu carries on.

Still very interesting! But the Canadian journos will all be in tears tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 06:18 PM

Very well done “Our Emma”!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 06:19 PM

Radu is fun to watch, she just hits out and keeps the pedal to the metal. 18 year old qualifier wins the whole shebang and doesn't drop a set. Amazing!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 06:54 PM

Well (and excuse me...) bugger me sideways! I can judge a football match for quality but I'm not too good with tennis, but that was intense, it was ferocious, it was evenly matched, it was seat of pants, it was QUALITY (I thought so anyway). I honestly didn't want either of them to lose. They were both beautifully smiley, they love each other, etc., but forget all that, above all they are both bloody good tennis players. A lovely shaft of unalloyed sunlight after eighteen months of misery. Go Emma! Go Leylah!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 12:56 AM

A great performance by both players, but the best woman won, IMHO. ‘Best’ in that she handled the pressure with amazing maturity and, unlike her opponent, Emma didn’t allow herself to be distracted by the unfortunate injury. Otherwise, both were immensely powerful hitters, playing with intensity and determination and, in truth, neither deserved to lose. In the end, maturity held out.

Surely Emma Raducanu’s rise is one of the most astonishing stories of our time in sport, a real breath of fresh air. But, until now, she’s almost had the proverbial ‘nothing to lose’ - let’s hope that the intense physicality of her game, and the pressure that her astronomic rise will inevitably bring, don’t take their toll and she can continue to grace the courts in the top flight of tennis for many years to come.

Well done Emma! You won with power, skill, grace, and personality - you did the game of tennis proud…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 02:30 AM

Emma Raducanu's extraordinary run at the US Open finished in glorious fashion in New York as the 18-year-old became Britain's first female singles Grand Slam champion for 44 years.Raducanu was born on 13 November 2002 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, to Ian and Renee, who originate from Bucharest, Romania, and Shenyang, Liaoning, China, respectively. The original spelling of her family name in Romanian is Raducanu (pronounced [r?du'kanu]) Another example of a positive that an immigrant has brought to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 03:43 AM

I must admit that I am no big sports fan but if every match was like that I'd become a tennis fan tomorrow. My heart was racing, I cheered. I gasped and, most important to this grasshopper mind, it wasn't too long :-) No tantrums and the stress only showed slightly on Laylah when, after pulling back two match points, she had to wait for Emma's injury to be treated. If that injury had been on the professional football field (Sorry Steve) I suspect the injured party would have been carried off!

Some minor things away from the match. I thought the rendition of "The Star Spangled Banner" was particularly horrendous. Why do they have to do that strange warbling? I know I am shallow for this but I took an instant dislike to Laylah's sulky looking little sister and wish they hadn't kept panning the camera to her. I thought it was a bit crass to mention the prize money and have the bank present it to her. And, finally, when did "Sweet Caroline" become the anthem for all English sports?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 04:52 AM

There wasn't a lot of defensive tennis going on there, both girls seem to go for winners at any opportunity, just the kind of play I like to see. When Osaka gets it together again the three of them could form an interesting triumvirate for some time to come a la the now fading Federer, Nadal and Djokovic one on the men's side.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:01 AM

It’s the ‘Murkan way, Dave - where we excel at ‘Pomp & Circumstance’, the ‘Murkans do ‘No Bizness Like Show Bizness’. And, of course, whilst they all loudly proclaim their faith in ‘Aawl-maa-a-aah-tee Gaa-a-ad’, their true god is money.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:14 AM

Emma lives about 5 miles from us !! Very well done to her, an exemplar to her generation, and note that she speaks properly too!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:22 AM

People who live or lived within five miles of me: John Nettles, Tori Amos, Thom Yorke...

But it's not fair. I live in the middle of nowhere whereas you live right in t'middle of t'smoke!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:31 AM

No we don't, we live 2 minutes drive from "enclosed" open fields - ie "the country"!!!!!!!

I must add that I cannot stand tennis, a sport with the most ludicrous scoring!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:51 AM

I've never been a fan myself. I think it became boring when rackets became super-powerful. I loved watching Rod Laver when I was a lad. And I can't bear those bloody yahoos in the crowd at Wimbledon who want to be the last to shut up before the next serve. Another aspect I dislike is the seeding system, a ham-fisted way of "saving the best 'til last." What's great about Emma and Leylah's triumph is that they both smashed their way, gloriously unseeded, through all that nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 06:03 AM

I looked up the official Grand Slam rule on a bleeding injury:

"If a player is bleeding, the Chair Umpire must stop play as soon as possible, and the Sports Physiotherapist must be called to the court by the Chair Umpire for evaluation and treatment. The Sports Physiotherapist, in conjunction with the Tournament Doctor if appropriate, will evaluate the source of the bleeding, and will request a Medical Time-Out for treatment if necessary.
If requested by the Sports Physiotherapist and/or Tournament Doctor, the Referee in consultation with the Grand Slam Supervisor or Chair Umpire may allow up to a total of five (5) minutes to assure control of the bleeding.
If blood has spilled onto the court or its immediate vicinity, play must not resume until the blood spill has been cleaned appropriately."

Leylah needed to have been a bit calmer and more philosophical about it. After all, the interruption disrupted the flow of both players equally, there was clearly no jiggerypokery going on and the correct procedure was being followed.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 06:12 AM

Newstead Wood Grammar School must be very proud!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 06:13 AM

And in football, FIFA's rules state that a player who is bleeding must leave the field and can't return until the bleeding has stopped. If there's blood on the shirt, shorts or socks, they must be replaced with clean apparel.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: BobL
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 07:59 AM

In my rapper sword dancing (look it up) days, we wouldn't put the swords back in the box unless blood had been drawn at some point.

Sorry, I drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 08:03 AM

Competitive Morris. The next national pastime:-) Who remembers "The Cloggies" by Bill Tidy?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 08:47 AM

My wife woke me up from my 'oh no, not tennis again' slumber,
to say

"she won...!!!"..


Note to Nationalists:.. not "we won...!!!"...



[.. though this is the same wife who is a defiantly pround nationalist
whenever Welsh teams or individuals are competing in any sport...]

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 09:31 AM

In my view the reaction to Emma Raducann's success does have a bearing on discussion on UK politics, and highlights the hierocracy of a government which on one hand is committed to anti-immigration policy and on the other jumps on the bandwagon on praising her success - and the likes of fagarse who has also jumped on the bandwagon while having a history of and Romanian rhetoric and shit-stirring.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 02:11 PM

Grrr...who changed my title...grrr...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 03:23 PM

Those colonials just don't understand, Steve ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 03:43 PM

Shame she's not a competitive cyclist or equestrian...

.. We'll never get the sports news headline "Emma Rides.."...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 03:45 PM

‘Those colonials’ are sulking because their girl lost… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 03:48 PM

I haven't seen this much nationalistic fervor around here since old ake was trying to claim "Donal John" for Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 04:13 PM

Far from nationalistic from me, gilly. See my earlier points about Britain being a mix of all nations. I don't think one nation can claim Emma but I am proud to be a member of the same club as her :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 04:18 PM

I was just rattlin' cages, Dave.

I didn't have the sound on yesterday but I think I saw a silver-haired "Our Ginny" Wade court side.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 04:47 PM

She was there, as was Tim Henman. Lots of other tennis stars too but I only remember Billie Jean King by name

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:03 PM

Rocket Rod Laver was there.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:10 PM

Out of interest I looked up Virginia Wade and although she was born here she was brought up in South Africa. So the last female grand slam winner was the reverse of Emma :-D

Who was out front with Martina earlier? Was it Jimmy Connors?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:14 PM

Didn't notice.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 05:21 PM

”I don't think one nation can claim Emma”

Exactly the point I was trying to make yesterday, Dave! I’m very relieved that you agree with me now.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 06:35 PM

She has British and Canadian citizenships.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 02:13 AM

And Romanian and Chinese parents. Truly an international sportswoman.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 02:15 AM

I bless the moderator who changed the title. I tried to a few days ago, but the discussion was so cryptic I couldn't figure out what anybody was talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 03:17 AM

It's what I have always said, John. Let me remind you of my opening words in this exchange

«i»To me, BWM, that makes her the perfect British citizen! Bit of everything :-) «/i»

I can claim to be part English, part Polish, part Russian, part Welsh etc. It does not make my claim to be British any less, nor does it mean that I am not British. Same with Emma. We can say "Our Emma", as can the Chinese, the Romanians, the Canadians and the human race.

As I said earlier, we seem to be at cross purposes over the word "our". If you feel the need for some sort of moral victory, then, yes, "our" is used to describe possession. But it is not always exclusive possession and you need to look at what the speaker actually means by "Our Emma". If you want to continue playing the Nigel that is :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 04:26 AM

No Dave. I’m not sure whether you’re simply failing to understand my point, or deliberately, wilfully refusing to see it.

Emma Raducanu is, first and foremost, Canadian-Born. She is, and always will be Canadian by birth. Her parents are Romanian and Chinese, so she is entitled to claim both of those as her Nationality. She is a British Citizen by choice (no doubt the choice of her parents, but just as valid) and I’m delighted by that. But it has to be remembered that citizenship and nationality are not the same thing - my brother-in-law and his wife are British nationals, but have Canadian citizenship, their daughter is a Canadian national, having been born in Oakville ON, but also has British nationality by virtue of her British parents.

In the light of the above, to claim her as ‘ours’ is nonsense, unless ‘ours’ is being used in the global sense, i.e. ‘belonging to all of mankind’, and I’m fairly sure that wasn’t the sense originally intended in the thread title.

So, far from being one of the ‘no foreigners allowed, send them back where they came from’ brigade which you introduced to the conversation (speaking of Straw-Men), and yes, I am offended that you would insinuate that I am one of those, the very fact of her international background, and that she chooses British citizenship makes me very happy indeed. But AFAIC, Emma isn’t ‘ours’ any more than she’s Canada’s, Romania’s, China’s or indeed, the whole world’s.

And if we, as a country, are so eager to claim a beautiful, successful, foreign-born sportswoman as ‘ours’, I wonder why we don’t have the same attitude towards desperate, traumatised refugees fleeing violence in the war-zones they originate from?

Finally, I’ll assume that your linking me with Nigel was a leg-pull - unlike his usual tactics, nothing I’ve said is a distortion or one-sided view, just straightforward, sensible and, above all, factual, indisputable points. ;-)

Now, the gas-man cometh and I have to prepare…

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 04:42 AM

She's beautiful. She's talented. She can play a bit of tennis. She speaks Chinese. She's a multi-millionaire, and counting. Please tell me she can't play the concertina, I've got to have something left.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 05:23 AM

She can pass exams too! So far, I haven't heard that she can play jigs and reels on the harmonica...

Now then, Dave. Time to remind these curmudgeons that preceding someone's name with "our" is a very affectionate northernism, as in "our Dave" or "our Eric." Usually reserved for family members, of course, but not necessarily exclusively in m'humble.

And Joe. The word tennis appeared in the first post in the thread! I can only assume that you spent Saturday and Sunday with the telly and radio off, with your curtains drawn and with your headphones delivering continuous 150-decibel heavy metal in your attempt to drown out the world outside...

Anyway, all that aside I see that our Novak slipped up... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 05:46 AM

He might be 'your' Novak, Steve, but no way in hell is he 'mine' - can't stand the arrogant bugger! Nor 'your' Roger.

I can take 'our' Emma all day though... ;-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 05:49 AM

As regards the "Emma rides" comment above, she gave up karting and motocross to concentrate on her tennis!

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 06:22 AM

I was being "ironic" there: he's definitely not my Novak either! I'm not that keen on tennis to start with, and I never watch the men's game. All that raw baseline power with rocket-fuelled rackets I find unsubtle and boring.

And didn't Liverpool play well...but with their stratospherically-talented teenager brutally felled by one lousy tackle...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 06:37 AM

Ah, not a great day for Super-Leeds at all, and yes the tackle was appalling - a top-flight professional footballer should know you can’t jump in to a tackle like that, as soon as we saw it, both Mrs Backwoodsperson and I said ‘Red Card!’.

But we’re still Marching On Together… :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 06:38 AM

And yeah, I knew you were pulling my plonker with ‘our Novak’! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 07:35 AM

We need more healthy intelligent attractive foreign blood in our stagnant gene pool,
before the brexiteers build their barbed wire fences around our island...

.. but that still don't stop me rgarding tennis as a posh tory sport...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 07:41 AM

I suppose everytime I am referred to as 'our kid' I should point out that I am not a young goat and do not belong to the speaker.

Hevean protect us from literalists...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 07:54 AM

'Ave yer 'eard from us sis this week?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 07:59 AM

One man’s ‘literalist’ is another man’s truth-speaker, Dave.

Heaven protect us from deniers of the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 08:01 AM

I was going to mention the other 'our' earlier , Steve, but thought it would be wasted on southerners :-D

Name 4 people from Coronation Street who's names begin with R

Roy, Rita, are Jack and are Vera...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 08:20 AM

I’m not a southerner Dave, the town I was born in and still live in is on roughly the same latitude as Manchester - 53.38333 N v. 53.483599 N.

Near enough for me…

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 08:32 AM

Back in the late 80s I shared an East London rented house with 4 or 5 brickies and chippies
who were making top money on the docklands site.

One was a scouser ..

I was a skint arty farty post-grad culture and ideology student,
but he was a good mate, kindly buying me pints on housemate nights out at the local..

He was a really nice intelligent generous bloke..

.. except for his defiant proud blatant racism - flagrant use of the "n" word...

He made it very clear how much he disliked them.
He justified it because he said he grew up in an area of Liverpool
under threat of being beat up by gangs of black kids...???

The only black guys he tolerated, even revered, were those who played for Liverpool..

I puzzled at this contradiction and asked him..

"Because they're our n*****s !!!"...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 09:08 AM

It's not location, John, it's a state of mind:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 09:10 AM

Stockport is 53.4083°N, which is further north than your place, John. And everyone knows that Stockport is, at best, in the Midlands. That makes you a southerner, John...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 10:36 AM

Oi mate stop arguing..

Everyone knows the southwest is the best..

That's why we've got so many bloody rich incomers flooding in buying up all the properties.
Pricing young born and bred locals out of the housing market...

Now Emma has buckets more quid..
has she started house hunting down here yet...???

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 10:42 AM

What was that about diluting the "stagnant gene pool" pfr?

Or is it just a case of not in my back yard?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 10:49 AM

1: oops "mates" plural - not singular..

2: ENRICHING and IMPROVING the stangnant genetic cesspool..


Fat blotchy gammon faced ugly xenophobes might call me a traitor to my race..

but eff 'em...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 11:02 AM

3: if you are trying to be clever implying what I think you are..

Then I say bollocks at ya...

As it happens I am extremely attracted to Oriental and East Euro women...

My mates in Bridgwater were proudly at the vanguard of inviting talented hard working E. Europeans
to visit and stay in our region..

What we're not happy with is the lockdown flood of rich wankers
flooding in snapping up homes with big gardens...

We're sick of all the posh people targetted lifestyle 'news' articles
promoting "getaway from the infected cities" house hunting in the Southwest...

If the rich uninvited guests are here to stay, at least let them be attractive foreigners...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 11:39 AM

"Now Emma has buckets more quid..
has she started house hunting down here yet...???"

Yeah! She was in the chippy in Bude at lunchtime, standing right next to Elvis!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 11:55 AM

Well, I say ‘path’, not ‘parth’, and ‘bath’, not ‘barth’. I say ‘book’, not ‘berk’. I say ‘Will’, not ‘wiw - in other words I speak with a northern accent’. I support a northern football team (I presume Leeds qualifies as northern). And, more than anything, I feel like a northerner. If our Emma can be British, I can be a northerner. So, my state of mind is that I am a northerner, and I don’t give a rat’s arse what anyone else says. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 12:25 PM

When was 21, after a couple of years living and working in Leeds & Bradford,
I retunrd back home to Scrumpyshire with a Yorkshire accent...

Those sneaky Northerners had covertly deprogrammed the wurzel out of me...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 12:46 PM

I think men's sports can sometimes bring out the worst in the players/spectators. I remember many years ago when I presented my not-very-fluent-English-speaking husband to our Village Team manager down on the football pitch. Husband longed to play for our village (he's really an excellent player!)
It was obvious by the chap's dubious expression that he wasn't sure about this. My husband was 'The Only Black in the Village' (Little Britain). I explained that he was from Ivory Coast "...you know, like Didier Drogba!" and the chap perked up. He turned to the team and bellowed, "Oi reck'n Didier Drogba has arroived fellas!"
He became their much-admired striker and his team members were all over him. Photos taken with their arms around him when he scored yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 02:08 PM

N.B. - Virginia Wade, on the One Show, talking about Emma, has just exclaimed "She's OURS!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 02:44 PM

Is she South African as well then? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 02:57 PM

.. or a possible claim for the LGBT community...???

[ok.. Wade is not confirmed.. but rumours persist about women's tennis...?????]

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 03:02 AM

Getting back to the start of this thread I am completely with Steve. There is nothing wrong with celebrating in the achievements of someone from your country or community or town etc etc. The facts that she has links elsewhere is completely irrelevant. And the idea that she is somehow less British than Greg Rusedski is surely a nonsense. This kind of thing is being spouted by a minority on social networking sites. Imagine how the lass feels when she sees stuff like that. There are different ways to be British. As I understand it Greg did not move to Britain and become British because of some attachment through one of his parents being born here. He moved here to live with his British girlfriend and after a few years took citizenship. For heaven sake Emma has been her since she was 2 years old and is a British citizen. She seemingly also retains Canadian citizenship but the UK allows dual citizenship. It does not make her less British. Neither does the fact that she has Chinese and Romanian heritage! So she can give interviews in fluent Mandarin and she learned Romanian recipes from her Romanian grannie!!! That doesn't make her less British. It might make her a marketing industry dream though.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 03:18 AM

I am entirely indiferent to tennis,
but this brilliant young woman is a potential poster girl role model
for exposing the hypocrisy of dominant right wing British nationalist sports fans...

[..and if she did have any Romanian Gypsy heritage, that would be icing on the cake...]

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 04:23 AM

I’m getting very tired of barely-disguised slurs and insults here, of being told I’m a ‘Damned foreigners, send them back where they came from’, and a ‘right-wing British nationalist’, type of guy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Something just about everyone here has apparently been unable to see from where they’re sitting on their high horses is that Emma Raducanu has a truly international background, and that trying to bask in her reflected glory by ‘possessing’ her, and claiming her as uniquely ‘ours’, is highly disingenuous. She’s no more ‘ours’ than she’s Canada’s, Romania’s, or China’s…or, in fact, the world’s.

I’m enjoying her success immensely because she’s an astonishing phenomenon and an inspirational figure for any young person of any nationality who has an ambition to succeed in whatever field they have chosen. What I’m not doing is trying to feel good about myself by trying to take vicarious, nationalistic ‘possession’ of her. That was the thrust of my response to the OP, and it’s the point I’ve been trying to make right through this thread.

That’s the exact opposite of a ‘right-wing British nationalist’ attitude. I’m sad that others can’t or won’t see it, but hey, it’s what it is. Anyone who doesn’t like it can BITE ME.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 04:27 AM

I hope she does become a model for all young people. They need a role model who shows perseverance, determination, courage, maturity, inclusivity, exuberance, unflappablity and so on. Then they can stop copying pop stars, being 'snowflakes', being obsessed with the latest gadgets/clothes/fads. And not fan their silly faces with their fingers any more!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 04:53 AM

"Not even as 'British' as Greg Rusedski who, although born in Montreal QC, did at least have one British parent."

Those were the exact words cut and pasted.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 04:59 AM

BWM - You might have the wrong end of the stick mate...

I'm not even thinking of refering to you, I know you're a sound bloke...

I'm writing for the benefit of certain old brexity mudcatters who may be lurking, or aren't allowed to post down here in BS...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 05:44 AM

‘Those were the exact words cut and pasted’

Eight words, perhaps badly-chosen, but genuinely intended as a light-hearted clarification of the point I was making about her multi-national origins. Cherry-picked to be used as a stick to beat me with. Hardly a fair and comprehensive review, is it?

”There is nothing wrong with celebrating in the achievements of someone from your country or community or town etc etc.

Where did I say there was? Any comment on this, from my last post?…

“I’m enjoying her success immensely because she’s an astonishing phenomenon and an inspirational figure for any young person of any nationality who has an ambition to succeed in whatever field they have chosen.”

Anything to say about my post of 12 Sep 21 - 12:56 AM, wherein I praised her performance to the skies and wished her the greatest success for her future?

”The facts that she has links elsewhere is completely irrelevant.”

Not necessarily irrelevant to those from the other countries to which she has links. They are as entitled to feel she’s ‘theirs’ as anyone in the UK is to feel she’s ‘ours’.

Now BITE ME.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 05:47 AM

Pfr - sorry mate, feeling a bit bruised and battered from this communal kicking for having the temerity to hold a different view to the mob! But I’ve been beaten up by gangs before, and came out stronger and more determined.

Cheers M’Dears!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 06:06 AM

BWM - No problems.. I can easily see you were being tongue in cheek...

Shame mudcat stopped us using smiley emoticons..

I miss my colourful signature eye winking stuck out tongue emoji...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 06:07 AM

Cheers, Allan.

Aside from the fact that "our Emma" in my opening post was intended as a piece of whimsy (if you were to have a natter with me down the pub you'd realise that I'm one of the least nationalistic-minded blokes around), "possession" was just just about the furthest thing from my mind. When I refer to my brother as "our Dave" (which I do all the time) I'm not affirming any "possession" of him, merely expressing the unconscious and lifelong sentiment that he's one of us (i.e., the family).

Emma came here aged two, which means that almost all of her sentient life (outside her family, a variable feast for each and every one of us in any case) has been steeped in things English - all her schooling, her friends, her general environment and all that. I mean, as Britain was once uninhabited, we're all descended from people who didn't start out here. I was born here but my gran on one side was Irish, born in Athlone, and my grandad was Irish but born in England... I reckon that makes me "half-Irish." There's been a lot of Irish influence in my life, not so much now that the oldies have all gone, but it's still all with me. I can play you a very mean Irish jig on the mouth organ, you know...But I'm English!

If you were having a natter with her about general stuff, you wouldn't keep on pointing out to her that she can't claim to be a true and unalloyed Brit because she was born in Toronto and that anyway her parents are foreigners here....would you? Carry on like that and she might decide she doesn't want to a Brit anyway! I don't want her to be "their Emma!"

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 07:29 AM

Do you ever read anything anyone else posts Steve, let alone try to understand, or is it all about ‘winning’? .

Nowhere have I said ‘she can’t claim to be a true and unalloyed Brit’, what I’ve said, over and over again, is that we can’t claim her as solely ‘ours’ in order to somehow feel good about ourselves - she has roots elsewhere, and she’s no more ‘ours’ than ‘theirs’ That’s all. It’s really not a difficult concept.

Now, if you’re not prepared to at least try to understand my viewpoint, and stop the Straw Man nonsense, you’d better join Allan and a few others, and BITE ME.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 09:50 AM

I wasn't really talking to you when I posted that. Just being all general and a bit meandering, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 10:02 AM

Bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 10:54 AM

Please yerself, Mr Touchy! I'm just not seeing that much here to get even vaguely worked up about.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 05:47 PM

I'm with Allan C and Steve on this: she is surely far more British than Canadian after spending 16 of her 18 years here, no matter where she was born, what her citizenship, or the nationality of her parents! Of course she may celebrate some of their traditions and customs. As for calling her "Our Emma", yes it's a term of endearment, just as "Oor Wullie" in Scotland is a favourite cartoon character, and belongs to everyone who wants to claim him as theirs.
My brother-in-law moved to Canada in his 20s, took Canadian citizenship about 20 years later, and is now in his 70s: he is definitely far more Canadian than Emma!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Emma (Raducanu) - Tennis
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 05:51 PM

I don't believe anyone on here has claimed her as "soley ours to feel good about themselves" John. Please feel free to point out where they have if I am wrong.