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BS: Interesting for dog owners!

Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 22 - 03:10 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Jun 22 - 04:42 AM
Senoufou 21 Jun 22 - 05:25 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jun 22 - 10:37 AM
Jeri 21 Jun 22 - 02:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Jun 22 - 02:37 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Jun 22 - 03:41 PM
Jon Freeman 22 Jun 22 - 05:13 AM
Donuel 22 Jun 22 - 07:33 AM
Bonzo3legs 22 Jun 22 - 08:24 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jun 22 - 09:26 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Jun 22 - 09:27 AM
Donuel 22 Jun 22 - 09:38 AM
Donuel 22 Jun 22 - 09:55 AM
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Donuel 22 Jun 22 - 10:23 AM
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Subject: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 03:10 AM

Some info that’s always good to be aware of ???
??

?? Don't worry, he's friendly ??

Those are dreaded words for some and with pet ownership on the rise, we've seen a drastic increase in reports of dangerous dogs or dog on dog attacks. So what's the law and what can you do to be a responsible owner?

* * * * * * * * * *

? I thought only big dogs could be dangerous or out of control ?

False. Any dog, regardless of age, size or breed can be considered dangerously out of control. This even goes for puppies, so bear this in mind when deciding to let your dog off lead.

* * * * * * * * * *

? You shouldn't walk in a park or field if your dog is on a lead ?

Green spaces aren't reserved for off lead dogs. As long as it's a designated walking area and allows dogs, everyone can use the space. If your dog has limited recall and is known to run up to other dogs/people, you should reconsider letting them off lead.

* * * * * * * * * *

? If it's on a lead it's obviously aggressive so should be muzzled ?

Another false statement. Dogs are kept on leads for multiple reasons. They could be recovering from an injury, fearful, elderly or in training. Yes, some dogs are reactive, but if they're on a lead and are being kept under control, the owner isn't required to muzzle them.

* * * * * * * * * *

? My dog was off lead but their dog started it ?

Excluding retractable leads or long lines, (more on those later), if your dog is off lead and approaches an on lead dog resulting in an altercation, you're the one at fault. Under the legislation, your dog would be the one considered dangerously out of control. Think about it like this, if your dog were on a lead, would the altercation have happened?

* * * * * * * * * *

? Ok, so what about retractable leads or long lines? ?

Dogs CAN be out of control when using either of these tools. Due to their length, they can make controlling a dog difficult and they allow a dog to act as if it were not on a lead. Please be mindful when using them.

* * * * * * * * * *

? So what if both dogs are off lead? ?

If two or more off lead dogs get into a scrap, this is a civil matter as both owners are at fault.

* * * * * * * * * *

?? The legislation ??

Under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, it's an offence for the owner of a dog, or the person in charge of a dog to allow it to be dangerously out of control whether or not in a public place. This increases to an aggravated offence if the dog, whilst being out of control causes injury to any person or an assistance dog.

* * * * * * * * * *

In short, please be careful when allowing your dog off lead and be mindful of others around you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 04:42 AM

Quite. Cards on the table, I dislike dogs and I regard most dog owners (not all) as incompetent in the matter of keeping their dogs under control. If I go for a walk on the beach in summer here, I WILL be accosted by a loose dog. Typically, its owner will make no attempt to restrain it. My view is that dogs should be on a lead, unless it's on YOUR private patch of land. I WILL see out-of-control dogs chasing around each other in a frenetic, over-hyped manner, yapping like crazy, which, for a non-dog owner, can be extremely intimidating if it's happening anywhere near you. To finish my rant, it's my opinion that those extendable leads should be banned. Typically, their users are irresponsible in the lax manner in which they use them.

It's far too easy to own a dog, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 05:25 AM

That's very useful information Bonzo, thank you. (And how is Dreamy by the way?)
Round here in this village there are dozens of dog-walking residents, and usually they abide by the rules. But even the friendliest of dogs sometimes insist on jumping up to greet me, covering my trousers in mud!
I do like dogs, but have never owned one. I like to pat and speak to them, but jumping up at me? No.
Actually, a huge boxer type of dog burst into my bungalow the other day when I opened my front door. His owner was nowhere to be seen. He inspected every room in my house, grinning at me in an amusing way. (He was very friendly,luckily - no growling or biting.). Then he exited onto my front lawn and left me a giant heap of smelly poo to clear up. Now that IS unacceptable. However, a neighbour grabbed him and read his tag thing, then phoned his owner on her mobile. He was taken home immediately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 10:37 AM

Yes, that was a good list, and it applies beyond the UK. I use Cesar Millan's approach to walking my dogs - they're all on leash and they're all walking directly beside me. They're not out front. Millan suggests that a dog pulling from the front thinks it is the "pack leader," and when you keep it beside you, you're in charge. I've used this technique for years. We walk with the Gentle Leader head collar so it's fastened over their nose and around the neck behind the ears, the two loops meeting under the chin. They can't pull out of those.

I'm also in control of the food, so once the food is measured in each bowl and the bowls are on the floor the dogs sit and wait for the command to eat. It's a great trick and easy to learn (because when you get it right you get to eat!)

I keep squirt bottles around the house because when people visit sometimes the dogs are overly friendly. They aren't aggressive, but they can be in your space when you want them to back off.

I have dogs because they have a job, to bark at people who don't belong at the house or in the yard. They don't charge the fence and threaten to tear people limb from limb, they just back up a bit and bark. The rest is up to me.

Bonzo, isn't it you who has the rescue greyhound? How is it going? I've heard that once they retire from racing they're basically big couch potatoes. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 02:00 PM

I think there are statistics, but I don't know where they are, so take this with a load of salt. Most dog bites are done by small dogs. I think it's something like a Napoleon syndrome. And the reason why they bite is loyalty, and their desire to protect their owners.
I've dealt with all kinds of animals - I'm thinking Stilly has too, and you pretty much have to realize it's THEIR world. The dogs, gerbils, raccoons, cats, or whomever, can't. Some of us - I ain't naming names ;) - are, for whatever reason, more at home in certain animals' worlds. I'm good with cats. I think I'm better with dogs. And horses. There are people who get upset being expected to adapt to another creature's world, but that never does any good. As someone famous (possibly, but at least, quoted a lot) once said, "it is what it is."


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 02:37 PM

Where I used to live, urban Salford, out of control dogs were an issue. Where we are now, semi rural Skipton, it doesn't seem to be. Definitely a responsible owner thing. Dunno what significance there is but I'm sure there is some!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 03:41 PM

Yes greyhounds are basically big couch potatoes, who spend the greater part of the day asleep, but ours is an excellent house dog who will bark at anything that moves outside! She is never allowed off lead on walks and only shows any interest in other greyhounds/whippets/galgos and their crosses. She is allowed off lead in a securely enclosed field, which are available nearby for hire by the hour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 05:13 AM

My view is that dogs should be on a lead, unless it's on YOUR private patch of land.

I disagree and think there are plenty of places where a dog can be off lead. I think a thing to do is to keep a watch out for people and to be prepared to put the dog on a lead (proper one, not one of these long things) when you are approaching others (or others approaching you).

We’ve not had a dog in years but I used to like going with mum and taking Misty out for a walk on the N Norfolk coast in my earlier years hee. Misty particularly loved retrieving a ball thrown into the sea for her. Trimingham Beach became a favourite for us as it’s quite close (by car) and was usually very quiet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 07:33 AM

Should dog families live in obeyence of other people's fears?
Or is Earth also meant for non humans?
I prefer Jeri's POV over Steve's.
I wouldn't want a neighbor with extortion demands and the assumed right to kill our dog because it would be or bark within the property border as border collies innately do.
There are simply good dogs and bad dogs in relation to good people and bad people. Sometimes nature or disease makes a mistake but mostly mean people can create mean dogs.
I will accept the nature of a person who might say "I dislike dogs - and sic most dog Owners".
Who knows there may be people who are intimidated by chipmunks and simply don't like them. I don't know if its a matter of experience or breeding but there are all sorts of folks out there. I wouldn't want to share a border with all of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 08:24 AM

"My view is that dogs should be on a lead"

This definitely applies to sight hounds, and in particular greyhounds who have high prey drive, and if that kicks in they have no recall whatsoever, and they're gone! A greyhound even not racing fit can reach 40 mph after 4-5 paces!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 09:26 AM

"I disagree and think there are plenty of places where a dog can be off lead. I think a thing to do is to keep a watch out for people and to be prepared to put the dog on a lead (proper one, not one of these long things) when you are approaching others (or others approaching you)."

That's all very well, but the majority of dog owners can't rein in their loose dog quickly enough if the dog is minded to hassle people or other dogs.

I also think that beaches should be out of bounds for all dogs for health and hygiene reasons. I'm disgusted by the sight of a dog frolicking in the waves alongside children. That is downright unhygienic and is a health hazard, yet is still a common sight. Some holiday resorts are becoming more lenient towards dog owners in matters such as the length of season and the hours in which dogs are banned from beaches. They want to keep them coming and spending their money, it seems. Here in Bude you will ALWAYS see dogs on beaches in breach of bans or off leads running free on beaches where leads are a requirement. Always. Guaranteed on any nice, sunny summer's day. The sense of entitlement possessed by some dog owners is staggering.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 09:27 AM

"My view is that dogs should be on a lead"

I mostly agree, with the exception of occasions where dogs are being exercised in enclosed areas where off-lead is permitted (we have an enclosed ex-school-field close by with permissive access, which has a notice on the gate from the estate-owners warning that dogs may be exercised off-lead, and advising that individuals enter at their own risk), or other large, open areas such as beaches where dogs are specifically permitted (there are several on the Lincs. coast which are comparatively secluded and well away from the main 'family'-type beaches)

Otherwise, dogs should be under control on a lead (leash, for our US friends!) at all times, precisely to prevent the kind of close contact that Steve is afraid of.

Even at home, my dog remains in my enclosed garden which I have made escape-proof (even for a Canine Houdini like a Border Terrier!) and, on walks anywhere other than the areas I have mentioned, he's kept on the lead which is attached to a 'Ruffwear' harness from which he cannot wriggle free.

We do use a 6-metre extending lead, but both my wife and I take the utmost care to ensure that it doesn't become extended excessively and, when there are people, or dogs, or both, within fifteen or twenty metres he is 'reeled-in' and the mechanism locked at its shortest length of 2 metres.

I also agree that dog-ownership is made far too easy in the UK, and that owners need to be aware that owning a dog carries significant responsibilities. To that end, I believe that the annual licence requirement should be reinstated at a significant cost - say £100 pa - (although I wouldn't object to it remaining free to anyone on State Pension).


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 09:38 AM

Not far from my house is Bark Social which is an off leash beergarten starting in the afternoon and going into the evening. Yes your pup can have a beer! They do not card the dogs. Right now they are serving morning coffee. Its a combination of tents roof structures and the great outdoors. From what I have seen the dogs get along better than what some of you slavishly call 'owners'.

Bark Social is getting a makeover and menu changes
BARK SOCIAL

ps [ YOU CAN ALSO HAVE BEER ] LOTS OF CHOICES


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 09:55 AM

There are also ancestry.com like labs and tests for your dog.
dna tests on the cheap


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 10:11 AM

My wife belongs to a Border Terrier Owners’ Group on Twitter (or Twatter, as I prefer to call it) and we have meet-ups of dogs and owners two or three times a year in large open areas. Often up to forty dogs, on-lead where necessary, but off-lead where permitted - great fun and a lovely way to spend a Sunday and make new friends from all over the country with a shared love of the breed.

In ten years, perhaps thirty-or-so meet-ups, no animals (or humans for that matter) have been harmed, but a great deal of enjoyment has been had by all concerned! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 10:23 AM

Radicalized progressives might call your meet ups 'racist'.
I see a danger might be, species specific feces disease.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 11:15 AM

My father had a cabin at the beach (Puget Sound) and one of the features of living at the beach is that there are lots of water dogs who live in homes along the shore. Access to the beach is through private land mostly so technically the public can't complain about the dogs out there on private beaches, and frankly, I always felt right at home with someone's golden or chocolate Lab coming along with a ball or a stick and hoping you'd throw it for them. They all went home at bedtime. That was the life, so don't move down there if you don't like the dogs. (Dad didn't have his own dog, he figured there were plenty of others that would visit during the day that he got a good dose of doggy-love whenever he went out on the beach.)

There are a lot of dog owners over-confident of their dog-handling skills. At the animal shelter in my city they have colored dots affixed to the history information about each dog up for adoption. The kennels are over-crowded, and there is always one room that you walk through where you make sure to keep your hands to yourself because they are "code red" dogs. They don't just bark, they snap and bark or possibly even lunge at the fencing. Maybe Cesar Milan could come along and restore that animal to a state of equanimity, but frankly, if the shelters are over-crowded, those are the dogs that should be euthanized first. It saves a person getting bit or worse and the dog's euthanisation at a later point in time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 11:38 AM

”There are a lot of dog owners over-confident of their dog-handling skills.”

I completely agree with you, Maggie. Even after having undertaken eighteen months of training, and reading extensively about dog psychology and behaviour, Mrs Backwoodsperson and I take no chances - we always expect the worst and take precautions to prevent the worst happening. Our experience, though, is that far too few owners do likewise, and a number of times we’ve been told, “He/she has never done that before!” by red-faced owners when their dog has charged up and tried to take a lump out of ours.

Training-courses run by qualified dog-trainers, for owners as well as their dogs, should be a condition of ownership, IMHO.

“Maybe Cesar Milan could come along and restore that animal to a state of equanimity”

There we must differ. I dislike his methods, I don’t like the way he pushes, pokes, prods, and virtually wrestles dogs to ‘show them who’s boss’. I much prefer Victoria Stillwell’s way of getting the dog to want to do your bidding by using gentle guidance and reward.

But each to their own and, if Milan works for you, have at it! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 11:51 AM

”Radicalized progressives might call your meet ups 'racist'.”

And it would be complete nonsense.

”I see a danger might be, species specific feces disease.”

I see a far greater danger of my dog getting an infestation of fleas from the numerous other people’s cats that come on to my property to shit in my flower-beds and then bury it for me to get on my hands when I’m weeding.

But that’s another story… ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 11:57 AM

Cesar recognizes that you have to get the dogs' attention, and I've never seen him be cruel to animals on his program. I haven't watched it for quite a while now, but when my first dog, a pitbull, arrived as a stray, I looked into his training and found that the walk and being in control of the food were what it took to have a well-behaved dog. She loved people and other dogs, was never dangerous, so she didn't fit the scenario he went through with some dogs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 12:09 PM

Yep, as I said - But each to their own and, if Milan works for you, have at it! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 12:48 PM

We don't say 'off lead' over here.
We do have leash laws.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 01:08 PM

I remember "Walkies".


In the 17th century a Russain Duke crossed an Arabian greyhound with a Russain sheepdog and the Borzoi breed began. The Russain Wolfhound is as graceful as a Cheetah and nearly as fast. Walking by a bush the dog made a short snare drum like rhythm with its front paws and *poof* it had a rabbit in its mouth. Americans don't have Borzois if they are particular about long white hair everywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 03:29 PM

"My view is that dogs should be on a lead, unless it's on YOUR private patch of land."

Absolutely not necessary in secure enclosed dog walking fields, made for the purpose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 04:07 PM

We have leash laws. You have no lead laws??


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jun 22 - 04:24 PM

Of course we have local by-laws concerning dogs on lead.

"Secure Fields" tend to be situated on a farm or other private land, which are hired out usually on an hourly basis - such as here


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 05:18 AM

Just re-reading, BWM,
[...]or other large, open areas such as beaches where dogs are specifically permitted (there are several on the Lincs. coast which are comparatively secluded and well away from the main 'family'-type beaches)
Sure. Round here, personally, I think you'd need to be a bit nuts to even consider taking your dog for a walk on Cromer beach in the summer. It's a holiday resort with children and bathers - totally unsuitable. Trimmingham I mentioned before is about 6 miles East from there, no restrictions on dogs, not known for bathers and when we went there (which must be at least 10 years ago), you' would be unlikely to see more than 2 others if that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 05:55 AM

Theddlethorpe, Huttoft, and Mogg’s Eye are all large, sandy, very quiet beaches in Lincs., and all are designated by the authorities as being open to dogs all year round. We adhere to the same standards on those beaches as we would in an open field - we pick our dog’s shit up and dispose of it properly, we take steps to control him as and when we find ourselves approaching other people/dogs, if their dogs and ours react well to each other (it’s unusual for them not to) we let them have freedom to interact, socialise, and play - never had any kind of problem in ten years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Lurcherman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 08:39 AM

My gentle Saluki/Greyhound cross is always off the lead when we are away from the road, he trots behind me apart from when he has a quick zoomie, in my part of Kernow there are lots of places where dogs Can run without upsetting the minority.
I agree those extending leads should be banned, my old boy recently ended up in the vets after he got tangled up in one and it acted like a cheese cutter….stupid person on the other end said…I couldn’t lock it..must be faulty…


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 10:22 AM

”I agree those extending leads should be banned, my old boy recently ended up in the vets after he got tangled up in one and it acted like a cheese cutter”

That’s about as logical as saying motor vehicles should be banned because there are around 24,000 road casualties in Great Britain annually, and it ignories the fact that, in most cases, it’s not the motor vehicle per se at fault, it’s the person driving.

Extending leads aren’t the problem. The problem is the idiots who take no time and care to use an extending lead properly, by observing what’s going on around them, and ‘reeling-in’ and locking in good time when around other people and dogs, or approaching hazards such as blind footpath junctions where another person or dog could be met unexpectedly.

Why should my wife and I - who use our extending lead carefully and judiciously - be denied it’s convenience for no better reason than that someone else can’t be arsed to be observant and careful, and prefers to prat about with his phone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 01:12 PM

Guns aren’t the problem. The problem is the idiots who take no time and care to use a gun properly, by observing what’s going on around them, and ‘holstering’ and locking in good time when around other people and dogs, or approaching hazards such as blind footpath junctions where school children or elderly shoppers could be shot unexpectedly.

Why should my wife and I - who use our gun carefully and judiciously - be denied it’s convenience for no better reason than that someone else can’t be arsed to be observant and careful, and prefers to prat about with his phone?

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Lurcherman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 02:24 PM

The other problem with extending leads and this is not BS is the amount of damage they do to a dogs neck due to the shock on the bones when they are jerked to stop are the end of the lead.
Even small dogs can get a fair head of steam in 3 or 4M..

Lots of incidents reported, up to you if you want to find them


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Lurcherman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 02:30 PM

https://dogtime.com/how-to/pet-safety/33069-retractable-leashes-dangerous-deadly-dogs-humans


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 02:37 PM

”The other problem with extending leads and this is not BS is the amount of damage they do to a dogs neck due to the shock on the bones when they are jerked to stop are the end of the lead.”

You’re absolutely right, and that is the reason we never, ever attach any type of lead to our dog’s collar. We always use a ‘Ruffwear’ or ‘Dog Copenhagen’ harness, two- or three-point fastening depending on whether we are on a street-walk or out in the country/on the hills.

If he is brought to a sudden halt, the stress is spread over his shoulders and upper-torso, no shock falls on his neck whatsoever. However, on walks we are constantly observing our dog, and assessing what is happening around him and us, so sudden, hard stops are rarely necessary.

As I said earlier, we try to be thoughtful, careful, and considerate dog-owners - both to our dog, and to other people and their dogs with whom we come into contact.

It really isn’t Rocket-Surgery. ;-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 02:53 PM

I get your point, Dave, and to be fair I thought about the very same point myself.

But if you genuinely don’t see the difference between (1) a restraint designed to allow an owner to keep a pet dog under control whilst allowing the dog a limited amount of freedom to follow its natural instincts, and (2) a weapon that has one purpose only - to kill another human being at a considerable distance, then I can’t help you and I fear that any further discussion would be fruitless.

As things are showing signs of beginning to go south, and In the interests of preserving friendship, I’ll bow out of the thread at this point


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 03:53 PM

Of course there is a difference between an extending dog lead and a gun but you are using the exact same argument to justify your extending lead as the gun nuts use to keep their AK47s. I use the same point to argue against both. It is not the fault of extending leads, guns or people. It is putting something that can cause damage in the hands of idiots. And in both cases it should be subject to regulation. There are degrees of course but the principle is the same. Don't let those who cannot handle them play with dangerous toys!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 04:30 PM

Greyhounds need a special type of neck collar called a Martingale


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 04:50 PM

"...a restraint designed to allow an owner to keep a pet dog under control whilst allowing the dog a limited amount of freedom to follow its natural instincts..."

Well I think that a good dog owner should be able to keep their dog under control at all times without resort to a lead. A dog can be trained to walk to heel and stay close to its owner. Sticking a lead on it, whether a long or short one, is a sign that the dog is not under your full control. Of. course, it could also be because there's a by-law in force, a law that would be unnecessary were all dog owners required to be in full control of their animals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Jun 22 - 07:28 PM

> their AK47s

AR15s, surely :-) ?

[runs to find tin helmet]


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 01:58 AM

"Well I think that a good dog owner should be able to keep their dog under control at all times without resort to a lead"

This cannot possibly apply to sight hounds, who unlike other dogs, have varying degrees of prey drive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 02:40 AM

Cynophobia (Fear of Dogs)

Cynophobia is the overwhelming fear of dogs. People with this anxiety disorder feel intense fear and anxiety when they think about, see or encounter a dog. In severe cases, this phobia can cause people to avoid places where dogs might be. Exposure therapy and cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) can help people manage cynophobia.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22082-cynophobia-fear-of-dogs


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 02:51 AM

Interesting!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 03:00 AM

I don't have a fear of dogs. Any well behaved animal is a joy and many are affectionate without the need to imprint themselves on innocent bystanders. Maybe it is the owners who cannot control their animals that should be seeking and paying for therapy rather than their victims?


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 03:20 AM

No names were mentioned Dave, it was a general point for the information of any and all interested parties. Funny you should think it was targeted at you though…


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 03:39 AM

On a point of order - Bonzo titled this thread ‘Interesting for dog owners’ and, speaking as one of those, that’s precisely what it is.

Would it be too much to ask the cynophobes, other assorted dog-haters, and general wet-blankets to leave us in peace, go away and, if necessary, start up their own ‘Interesting for cynophobes, dog-haters, and general wet-blankets’ thread where they can fear, hate, and wreck to their hearts’ content?


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 04:10 AM

I knew it wasn't aimed at me, John. I just made the point that I was not afraid of dogs. Funny you should think that I thought it was... :-)

And, yes, it is too much to ask, as unruly dogs affect the lives of everyone around them and not just their owners. I am not a cynophobe, dog-hater or general wet-blanket but I do dislike the entitlement that SOME dog owners feel that they have to encroach on the lives of those vulnerable to the unwanted attentions of their badly behaved pooches.

You seem to be getting the "Jim syndrome". Anyone who does not agree with you 100% must be against you. That is just not the case. I like well behaved dogs. I believe that both you and Bonzo are responsible owners but those who are not give others a bad name. The criticism is not aimed at you personally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 04:17 AM

Cynophobes my fat arse! Sounds like the best form of defence for the indefensible is attack, via castigating people who make perfectly justifiable criticisms of many dog owners. Let's see precisely what it is that we're criticising:

The sense of entitlement of bad owners ("Leave us alone; the rules don't apply to me; don't be such a wimp, he's only trying to be friendly, you must have a disease I've just made up called cynophobia, etc.)

The clear lack of control demonstrated by the vast majority of dog owners.

Dogshit everywhere.

The ownership, legal or otherwise, of vicious dogs that are fully capable of killing or injuring people.

The ease with which dogs can be acquired (all those extra dogs bought during the pandemic that were then cruelly discarded...)

The lack of regulation of dog ownership (any Tom, Dick or Harry can get a dog or multiple dogs without registration or licensing).

You may be a shining beacon and a great example to other dog owners, I know that such responsible people exist, all power to your elbow, etc. But, instead of accepting that you are part of a dog-owning community that's replete with bad apples who should be mortally embarrassing you and who you should be wanting to do something about, you attack their critics, even inventing a disease to characterise them. Wow. We know that any government that threatens the huge dog lobby with regulation, restrictions or the imposition of a costly (but justifiable) requirement to buy a licence would be toast. Shades of another lobby across the water!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 04:52 AM

If anyone in this village dares to leave some dog poo on the pavement, the residents nearby always post a lovely (?) photo of it on our village Facebook! I wonder if they imagine the naughty dog-owner would recognise their dog's poo from a photo? It always makes me giggle.
I actually love all animals, and try to 'live and let live'. The only thing that would worry me would be a vicious dog that may bite, but none of those around here are like that.
Jon, I imagine Holkham beach would be brilliant for giving ones dogs a good run. Massive beach, usually empty of people. I used to take my class there and let them loose, after dragging them round Holkham Hall. (Hope they didn't leave piles of poo!) But the tide comes in extremely rapidly, and can catch one unawares.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 05:04 AM

Yep, and the dogshit gets washed away and dispersed by the tide, to end up as raw sewage full of God knows what pathogenic organisms...


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: G-Force
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 05:13 AM

Would it be too much to ask the cynophobes, other assorted dog-haters, and general wet-blankets to leave us in peace, go away and, if necessary, start up their own ‘Interesting for cynophobes, dog-haters, and general wet-blankets’ thread where they can fear, hate, and wreck to their hearts’ content?

Well, I started just such a thread in 2009 called 'I hate dogs'. You can still go back and read it if you want. Actually, I don't hate dogs so much as stupid pointless inconsiderate dog ownership. But I guess I said all I had to say in 2009.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 05:14 AM

Here we go, the dog haters' drivel!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 05:19 AM

Sorry, mate, it's the bad dog-owner hater's drive. You just left two words out, that's all, a minor fault of course!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 05:30 AM

Sen, I've not been there but Holkham is listed as dog friendly here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 08:38 AM

The rapid tide there is rather a danger though Jon. Once, my class were swamped by what resembled a miniature tsunami, and Jim, the coach driver, and I had to save them as best we could. I had half a dozen children clinging to my skirt, and Jim was grabbed by many of the boys.
We were all soaked to the skin, but luckily no-one drowned.
Afterwards, when writing up their experiences, most of the children (aged about 10) put "Holkham Hall was boring, but the scary sea was fantastic!"
I realise most dogs can swim, but their owners might not survive a tidal swamping.


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Subject: RE: BS: electronic sniffing dogs!
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 09:17 AM

Jeffery Clark's home was raided by the FBI assisted by lectronic sniffing dogs. LSDs

Jeffery was led away sans pants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 09:40 AM

Dogs can't operate MRI scanners but Catscan
https://www.domesticatedcompanion.com/the-most-hilarious-and-original-yard-signs-youve-ever-seen/54?xcmg=1


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 11:24 AM

Since those who don't own dogs and don't approve of most of the actions of some dog owners have registered their complaints repeatedly - it's time to move along and let those who own dogs and have an interest in the topic continue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 12:43 PM

I couldn't agree less. I'm not a dog owner but I have a big interest in this topic. As a seven-year-old I was attacked in the street by an Alsatian that suddenly broke away from its owner. I ended up in A&E and I had to give evidence in a magistrates court against its owner. Subsequently, his dog also bit my best friend and he was back in court. The owner was caught taking revenge against us by posting dogshit with his bare hands through my mum's shop door. A couple of years later my pet cat was mauled to death before my eyes by a loose dog. A few years ago my wife was attacked by two loose dogs whilst cycling and needed first aid for a leg wound and had to have an anti-tetanus injection, and on a separate occasion I was forced to furiously fend off a loose dog from attacking my twelve-year-old son as we rode our bikes in a country lane near here. All of these attacks were unprovoked. Please don't tell me that I have no interest in this topic or that I have "cynophobia." It's pretty typical of dog owners who are confronted with stories such as these to try to tell us that we're making a fuss, we're softies, live and let live, etc. if you own a dog or dogs you belong to a fellowship that contains many a rotten apple, so I'd politely suggest that you aim your barbs at the right targets.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 02:19 PM

So everyone else is wanting to talk about good skills and manners with their dogs and Steve keeps turning the subject back to how he doesn't like dogs and wants it to be about his opinions. You see why I suggested you give it a rest? You weren't named, but if the shoe fits . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 02:30 PM

Please note that not once have I said that I don't like dogs. I know you'd love me say what you want me to say...


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 03:36 PM

Steve, it's perfectly understandable that you're very wary of dogs, having been attacked and bitten like that. My sister was similarly attacked and badly bitten by an Alsatian when she was in her early teens. Her face was ripped, and now she is still rather wary of any dog that approaches her, even in a friendly way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 04:24 PM

It's the world's numero uno cliche, but it's always the owner, never the dog. I don't not like dogs. I'm a biologist who revels in and celebrates the diversity of life. I can even respect a big, ugly slug, as long as it's at least three feet away from my lettuces.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 06:10 PM

Oh dear. I just realised that, in my first post to this thread, I did say that I disliked dogs (before anyone else picks me up...). Well, that's true enough, I can't deny, but it doesn't mean that I single out dogs as public enemy number one. It means that I've had a good few extremely negative experiences with dogs, but that every one of those was the fault of the owner. I could add to the experiences I listed the innumerable occasions that I've stood in dogshit and trampled it into the house or my car then had to whittle it out of my shoe, or the occasions when I've had to clean dogshit out of my kids' hair and clothes or bike tyres. Whilst all that doesn't exactly endear one to the little dears, it remains the case for me that hounds are fully the product of nature and that their shortcomings are squarely the property of their feckless owners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 22 - 07:19 PM

Some people say that dogs have a sense of a person's soul. What BS!
But if the dogs all gang up on Steve, who am I to argue.
In my entire life I was bitten only once and then immediately defended against the offending dog- by another dog. There is some sort of communication that is beneficial when dealing with dangerous dogs.
Steve try again, fail better next time, and learn something that works better than fear. Or not. I really won't lose sleep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 03:27 AM

Sen, I see there are a few warnings and advice for Holkham beach, eg. see this article which followed a family getting stranded and needing rescuing there.

We once took Misty for a walk from Cley beach towards Blakeney Point. It was a nice quiet walk but it is one where I think checking the tide tables and planning is advisable. It would be possible to get cut off by the tide coming in quickly and behind you Blakeney side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 04:32 AM

The only time we needed to be careful of tides was at Croyde Bay in North Devon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 06:02 AM

Idiotic input and well worth ignoring as ever, Donuel.

Ah yes, Croyde beach. Lovely area is that. It's a bit of a drive for us, maybe 75 minutes-ish. I only actually went on to the beach the once. I remember that you have to lug up a steep slope covered in deep, dry sand in order to get off the beach, so made note to self not to do it on a hot day and to get someone else to carry all the kit. :-). Oh, and that whale's skull at the top - is it still there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 06:10 AM

I don't know, we always joined beach at Downend well away from the Ruda caravan park.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 08:53 AM

There are Views of Croyde in this video, see Downend House at the end, where we stayed each June from 1990 to 2002!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 09:49 AM

Some lovely walks round Baggy Point and Morte Point and beyond. I remember a hot afternoon in 2005 sitting on the tailgate of my beaten-up car with its busted radio in Mortehoe car park, eating a butty and having a cup of flask tea, listening to the cricket commentary on the now-legendary Ashes series (can't remember which match, but it wasn't the final decider as I listened to that one on a bench on Bude Canal...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Jun 22 - 02:55 AM

Greyhound logic is that if they bark at nothing for long enough, something to bark at will appear!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 22 - 07:04 PM

dogs that diagnose disorders and read emotions
Its sad for those who still dislike dogs. But people have to want to change before any progress can be made by those poor unfortunate souls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 02:06 AM

There have been recent warnings for dog owners about lungworm, a dangerous parasite which is on the increase. Norfolk is one of the regions affected.
This village has the most beautiful walks-for-dogs (and for humans too!) Through woodland, along the banks of the river Wensum, around various lakes and pools etc. However, some rather naughty people have started letting their dogs loose on our farmers' fields, where crops are fully grown and awaiting harvest. This flattens the crops, and now there are warnings from the angry farmers that they will revoke the Rights of Way around their land.
There are also some who let their dogs loose on the village playing field. I can see why, it's fenced all round so the dogs can run safely. But they leave piles of poo (which the owners don't seem interested in picking up and bagging) so the children/footballers playing there risk getting covered in the filthy stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 04:25 AM

We have a large wetland nature reserve in Bude, important for ground-nesting birds. Next to it is the rugby club's ground. Both areas are plagued by loose dogs (which are not allowed, but, in spite of signs everywhere, are routinely to be seen). The bushes next to the adjoining bike path are frequently festooned with those little scrotums of dogshit. Dog ownership, especially among the more elderly, is rife around here, so outrage is hard to come across. Allow me to express just a little of it here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 06:39 AM

Cley (beach mentioned before)/Salthouse has a major nature reserve with hides and a visitor centre. The bittern is one bird you are supposed to be able to spot in the reed beds.Dogs are banned from this area and I can't remember ever reading of problems in the local media but that's not to say there's not the odd person around who does try to take dogs there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 08:52 AM

Dogs aren't banned from our nature reserve but they are required to be on leads. Ironically, the ones you see actually on leads are usually beautifully behaved. The ones on the loose CAN be well-behaved, but they are the ones that often get over-excited, charge around in the sensitive habitats and shit on the rugby field. They not infrequently hassle to dogs on leads too. As ever, it's the bloody owners, innit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 04:58 PM

Yes I agree with you there, I try to avoid our local recreation ground around 7.45 - 8.15am which is when the dog walking gang turn up with their out of control balls of fluff running wild. Our grey just doesn't like them. For a bit of fun one morning I'll put a muzzle on our grey which, because they are so thick, will keep the dog walking gang away!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 05:26 PM

I was in the park this morning and a very angry bloke was shouting at a lady that her Pekingise had killed his Rottweiler. No! She cried. How could she have done that?


He replied that she had got stuck in his throat...


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 05:51 PM

Very funny!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 12:33 AM

Hahahahaaa Dave, that's hilarious!
The new resident over the road from my house has a daft little chihuahua called Barney. He's rather sweet but yappy, and in my humble non-dog-owner opinion, he's not walked often enough, if at all.
I don't think any dog can be satisfied with merely running round the garden - they do need walks outside the garden to 'see the world'.
He also escapes from time to time, and comes zooming over to see me on The Bench in my front garden. I usually manage to get hold of him gently and carry him back to his owner.
Another new lady in our village is starting up Dog-Training sessions on one of the farms. Lots of well-structured games and lessons for dogs (and their owners!) for a small fee. We all think this is a wonderful idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 05:38 AM

I think I'm seeing an increasing trend around here for dogs to be pushed around in kiddies' pushchairs, or smaller ones to be carried in little over-the-shoulder slings or in the basket on the front of a pushbike. Whilst I don't like to judge, thinking that some of said dogs could be disabled, I do find this sort of thing to be somewhat risible. Still, it's a free country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 09:17 AM

My dogs do have a few garments. The blue heeler wears a Thunder shirt when the weather is stormy, or will wear it next week when the fireworks are going off like a war zone. It is marginally helpful.

My smallest dog has a short uncomplicated coat and in cold weather she has decided that she loves the little fleece jacket I pull over each front leg and that fastens under the belly with Velcro. It was a lifesaver during the super long freeze of 2021.

And if there are body injuries that require the "cone of shame" to avoid licking the wound or dressing, I have convinced all of them that if they will leave the large-size adult t-shirt in place (put on over their head, with front legs through the arms and the waist of the shirt pulled snug and twisted into a knot around the dog's slim waist/abdomen area) that they don't need to wear the cone. People have asked why my dog is wearing a shirt and I explain - the dogs are so glad to not have that cone on that they are always cooperative. Invariably I'll see the other dogs walk over, take a sniff at the shirt where it covers the wound, and are satisfied that the shirt is there for a reason. (They've been checking the state of my surgical wound under the dressing this week - a quick sniff to see how the knee is and they move on). They really do understand quite a lot about the reasons we do things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 02:22 AM

Spare a thought for terrified dogs and other animals during July 4 firework mayhem today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 06:38 AM

Do we have July 4 fireworks mayhem in Blighty? In The People's Republic Of The Choicer Bits Of Croydon, maybe...


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 07:33 AM

No thank goodness, I'm referring to the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 09:49 AM

I'm not keen on the notion of a free-for-all, any time, anywhere fireworks culture, but a couple of times a year to keep your animals indoors for the evening seems good to me. I'd be more than happy to see something like that enforced generally, but with the possibility of negotiated exceptions. Here in Bude we have the usual shenanigans around Guy Fawkes night (spread out over too many nights in m'humble) and a half-hour spectacular on August Bank Holiday Monday for Lifeboat Day. Quite a few people bring their dogs to that one!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 11:22 AM

We have booked an hour in a new enclosed dog field just 10 minutes drive away. There are all kinds of things for dogs to climb on and through, but no doubt our greyhound will stick to her sniffmails!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 11:56 AM

If I walk the dogs around the neighborhood we stay on the street (few sidewalks here) and they walk with me and we're moving along for the exercise and fresh air. But we have a few places around the neighborhood where, once we step onto the rough area of a wood or vacant lot, noses immediately go to the ground and they check out everything that has passed through the area. When I had my first two dogs back around 2005 they loved our walks in the wild prairie across the road where they could root around under tall grass bunches and low shrubs like wild dogs hunting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 04:00 PM

”but no doubt our greyhound will stick to her sniffmails!!

Errrrrrrmmm…’Peemails’? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jul 22 - 11:51 AM

Very true!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jul 22 - 08:21 PM

Some of this reminds me of the explanation for automated factories.

Every total automation factory has one man and one dog.
The man is there to feed the dog.
The dog is there to keep the man from messing with the machinery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 03:18 AM

Yesterday I had a lovely chat with a young woman who lives up the road with her parents. She had with her a nice dog called Rosie. Apparently, a group of Travellers had been visited by the RSPCA and thirty poor dogs had been discovered chained up tightly, half-starved, showing marks of beatings and used as a 'puppy farm'. They'd all been rescued, and their photos put online. My neighbour had chosen Rosie (she named her after collecting her). The poor dog is very nervous, but getting more confident, and slowly gaining weight. (Before the rescue, she was like a walking skeleton.)
I felt so sad - imagine the suffering of those poor creatures! But very happy that Rosie has now found a loving home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 05:43 AM

It’s not just Travellers - recently in a village a few miles from us a couple - both ‘respectable’ and very well-britched company-directors - were prosecuted for organising dog-fighting meetings, and breeding Staffies for fighting.

A person’s personal standards aren’t necessarily indicated by their wealth and place in society, Bonz. As an accountant and a Tory muggins, you should be amply aware of that fact.


Bonzo's remark and the following responses were removed. That kind of slang is never left in place here on Mudcat. -----mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 06:13 AM

if you are anywhere near kendal on sunday you could go and have a look at the south lakes greyhound walk. quite a sight is 60 plus beautiful dogs gliding around silently, no fuss or squabbling. vast majority are rescue dogs (is is our lovely Rosa) and some there are looking for a home. i like to watch the bemused yet impressed expressions on the faces of onlookers. if you want a new dog, please get a well-behaved, beautiful and affectionate rescued longdog. (unless you have a cat, obviously-they just don't mix well)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 11:31 AM

> (unless you have a cat, obviously-they just don't mix well)

Depends if they've been brought up together. Herself's auntie was staff to a cat, and was given a small puppy: they coexisted reasonably well, as long as the dog remembered that the cat was quite definitely in charge.

YMMV. Mebbe it's a size thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 04:25 PM

20 years ago we had a dog and 2 cats who were definitely in charge!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 05:07 PM

We took our greyhound to a new 6 acre secure field this afternoon, where she enjoyed trotting around off lead. The owner of the land has 2 such fields, which are very popular at £10 for 55 minutes + 5 minutes to drive out and lock the gate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 05:22 AM

Crikey that field has slots booked for weeks ahead, must be more profitable than growing stuff!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 07:38 AM

> Crikey that field has slots booked for weeks ahead, must be more
> profitable than growing stuff!

First thought: It probably is these days.

Second thought: "We do crop rotation: wheat, oats, barley, and rock festival."


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 07:38 AM

We are using dogs to sniff out wasting/prion disease.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 07:44 AM

"Second thought: "We do crop rotation: wheat, oats, barley, and rock festival." Sounds like Norfolk 4 Course Rotation gone wrong!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 01:05 PM

The howl of the wolf is familiar to all. I suppose all dogs can howl.
Our wolfhound would match the tone and pitch of the volunteer fire department siren.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 01:24 PM

Over the years my pitbull got to where she howled not only with coyotes on the other side of the back fence (it became a nightly thing for a while!) but she also joined in any fire truck or ambulance or police car siren.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 03:44 PM

Just took our greyhound for a walk, it was 8.30pm 25C and very humid - she walked about 100 yards uphill, stopped and turned around and pulled me back home!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 03:54 PM

Oh, yes, our hound/beagle mix would howl along with the siren from the limestone quarry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Neil D
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 06:55 AM

Steve said that dogs frolicking in the waves with children is unhygienic. For the dogs or the kids?
Someone said earlier that they thought small dogs were more likely to bite and this is statistically true, but is also an example of the inadequacy of statistics. I'll use my two dogs as an example. One is a 65lb pitbull and the other is a 12 pound chug. The chug, Emma Rose, hates everyone and would much more be inclined to nip someone than Bagel the pittie who likes most people. The difference is the potential for damage. If Emma bit you the worst scenario would be a tiny puncture you might want a pinky bandage for. Now if Bagel ever did decide someone needed biting, he could crush bones. Of course I'd never allow that. On the rare occasion that he does take an instant dislike to someone he gives fair warning with his "I mean business" bark. I keep him on a short leash at such times, but I also trust his judgment.
If anyone wondered what a chug is, it's a cross between a chihuahua and a pug. When my wife said we were getting such a hybrid I said it should be called a chi-pug in honor of 70's all-female punk rock band, Chi-Pig. But my wife said "It's already a thing and it's called a chug!" But then, when we had Jack Russell/shit-tzu mix I told anyone who asked that it was a Jack Shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:04 AM

If Emma bit you, you would be wise to get an anti-tetanus jab if you're not already well-protected.
As for frolicking in the waves, it raises the quasi-philosophical question as to what's more important, dogs or children? Our children are precious to us, we invest huge amounts of time, money, and emotion in bringing them up to be the future of humanity. Your dog is your hobby. I'd add to that that dogs do not routinely clean themselves or are cleaned by parents, unlike children, they carry several pathogens in their unclean mouths and up and around their unwiped and unwashed anuses. So no, dogs and children should not mix in the sea. In fact, dogs shouldn't even be on busy beaches at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:13 AM

I've heard people have diseases too. I would like to have known Jack Shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:03 AM

If you don't think dogs and children belong commingling in the same edge of the ocean then you would cringe to see my old chocolate Lab spending hours in the pool at Susie's house (his first owner) with the kids as they threw toys for him to fetch. Everyone survived that shared water experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:04 AM

Of course. But a dog owner allowing his dog, with its dirty mouth and dirty bottom replete with pathogens, to swim with children on the busy beach is assuming equal priority for his dog with children. Well I don't agree with that. He needs to take his pooch elsewhere. Children are the precious future of humanity. Your dog is your hobby.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:11 AM

(I was responding to Donuel). A few years ago a young girl died after contracting E. coli from dog faeces on Dawlish beach near here. Anecdotes are easy to come by but they prove little. Churchill smoked all his life and drank brandy and champagne every day. He lived to 95. My mum smoked for 65 years and enjoyed a diet that I'd call terrible, and she didn't quite make it to 92. Tenets for good living can rarely be gleaned from anecdotes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Neil D
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:21 AM

Donuel, his name was actually Arlo, Jack Shit was what I called his breed. I was sitting on a bench out on Canal St one night and a group was going home from the bar. One of the girls asked "Ooh, what kind of dog is that?" I said "He's a Jack Shit" and her boyfriend said that was the funniest thing he heard all year. You would have like knowing Arlo. He was funny and feisty and brave and cute as all get out. In the movie "Dean Spanley" which I heartily recommend, Peter O'toole's character say that there are only ever seven great dogs on Earth at any given time. Well, Arlo was one of the seven. He left us far too soon and broke our hearts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:32 AM

Many decades ago I had a black lab named Lucky and as an early fall ritual we would swim across Lake Needwood in Maryland every year. Damn the fecal matter, full speed ahead. When we took him to the Atlantic beaches in the summer he would get in the water and wouldn't come out until I bribed him in with a sandwich.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:37 AM

Damn the fecal matter was your choice. Had other people been in the water with you, you'd have been imposing your choice on them too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:39 AM

I know, it still keeps me awake at night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 10:10 AM

That laser attention to the possibility of "fecal matter" from dogs supposes that there aren't birds and fish and tons of other critters pooping in the water. If there's a red tide then you know the water is unsafe; if there is a sewage dump then you know the water is unsafe. Regular everyday critters at the edge of the regular ocean are plenty safe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 11:30 AM

We spend billions trying to keep raw sewage out of our coastal waters. Only to give dogs a pass, because, well, dogs will be dogs...?

Just find a place where there are no holidaymakers in the water, that's all. That's as far as your sense of entitlement should take you. For 'tis a sense of entitlement we are surely seeing here...


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 01:27 PM

I wouldn't want to be a bubble boy but I suppose some people do. If you garden in soil you are exposed to as many bacteria as there are grains of sand. Some people enjoy a long face washing by a licking dog but I would rather limit my exposure. Shit happens. People are buying probiotic shit pills and swallowing them daily. The old adage "eat shit and die" is not a universal truth. I would not ban one's attitude about anything but I do point out the inconsistences. Steve needs true comfort food more than anyone I know.

Arlo Jack Shit seems more than a force of nature he sounds like the expression of truth and joy bursting into life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 02:12 PM

I feel great sympathy for cynophobes (Look it up Steve, nothing ‘made up’ or ‘invented’ by me). It’s very sad that they are incapable of experiencing the joy that the unconditional affection and companionship of a dog can bring to rational people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 03:43 PM

Rational is relative and not a good word choice since a dog bite vistim is rational in avoiding that situation. Dr. Trauma sez a single course of MMDA would cure Steve for life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 05:01 PM

(Ignoring the idiot Donuel for now...)

"It’s very sad that they are incapable of experiencing the joy that the unconditional affection and companionship of a dog can bring to rational people."

I get great joy and companionship with real human beings, even affection sometimes. I find the notion that you get great joy from an animal who can't talk to you, can't challenge you intellectually, who gives you fake love only because you're the hand that feeds it and who is comfortably far more dumb than you are to be interesting, even poignant. It's very sad that you think that not being particularly fond of dogs makes me a sad case. It's all part of the doggie mindset, he's only being friendly so don't be silly, dogs have to poo somewhere after all (parks, playing fields, streets, beaches), and the rules don't apply to my dog anyway because he's such a good little doggie, and you non-doggie taxpayers ought to be grateful that we get you to pay for our dogshit bins (which are an optional facility anyway).

I have a cat. Cats carry pathogens, just like dogs. Generally, cats don't bite and are quiet (if your dog barks a lot, it means that you are a lousy owner). I've lived here for 35 years and have half an acre and no neighbours. My neutered cats have never strayed and have never shat in anyone else's garden. I don't take my cat into streets, parks, playing fields or on beaches. Unlike your dogshit, including the smears left behind when you pick up the shit if someone's looking, my catshit is all mine, exclusively. Just in case you bring up cats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 05:24 PM

Absolute rubbish


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 05:49 PM

For once, I’m in complete agreement with Bonzo. Your need-to-‘win’-at-all-costs is making you look very, very foolish indeed. GTFU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 06:01 PM

You can't counter the things I'm saying, unfortunately. And you started this by calling me a sad case, somehow deficient, because I don't appreciate doggie joy and affection... It's hard to try to outdo the mass of dog-lovers here and it isn't what I'm about. All I'm doing is putting the minority case. John, you're with Bonzo. Less than 24 hours ago you were telling me not to encourage the muppet. It's make yer mind up time! :-)

(Thinks: Will John now swear at me, the usual thing...?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:35 PM

Oops, he already has (I had to look up "GTFU"). I guess that means that you have lost the argument, John!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 12:54 PM

I must say that I agree with the sentiment that it does not mean you are somehow deprived if you don't like dogs. I don't mind dogs at all but I would never own one out of choice. They do nothing for me. What I do not like is the entitlement that some dog owners feel they have over us 'mere mortals'. It is not a right to allow your pooch to run up to children or vulnerable people and lick them. It is not a good excuse to laugh and say "oh, he's only being friendly". It is not acceptable to either leave heaps of dog shit on the playground or, worse in some cases, scoop up said shit in a bag and then leave it dangling on other peoples gates.

Before anyone says otherwise, I am sure that neither Jonh nor Bonzo are in this category but, sadly, many are and if I say it is wrong, I am branded a dog-hater or a whatever-is-is-ophobe. I am neither but, just like millions of others, I am not a cynophilist!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 01:23 PM

I don't hate dogs. I'm a biologist who savours the amazing diversity of life on earth. I hate irresponsible and entitled dog owners. And that is a very large number of them, possibly even a majority. The dog-defenders here are shooting at the wrong target. It's the masses of bad owners, the shit-leavers, the dog non-controllers, the people who don't get that we don't all want their pooches running up to us and who let their dogs bark, who bring dog ownership into disrepute. That's who the wrong 'uns are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 02:09 PM

You won't have that problem with greyhounds because they are always on a lead in public, and if they're not, you won't see them for dust!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 06:52 PM

I've lived here for 35 years and have half an acre and no neighbours. My neutered cats have never strayed and have never shat in anyone else's garden.

Lots of cat owners have tiny gardens and have no idea where their cats disappear to once they are let outside. Yes, there are irresponsible dog owners who do not clear up after their dogs but there are plenty of others who do. I can't recall seeing anyone following their cat, poo bag in hand.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 07:32 PM

I can only speak for myself, Doug. I repeat: I don't take my cat into the street, into parks, playing fields, nature reserves or on beaches. Way over 35 years ago, we lived in Loughton, had a tiny garden and had two cats. All I can tell you is that every single one of our neighbours also had cats. All was harmonious on the catshit front. I suppose that was lucky. I know that many non-cat neighbours of cat owners complain about catshit in their flower beds, etc. It definitely ain't right, I confess. But at least those errant cats don't bark like buggery for hours, threaten your kids or shit all over the streets.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: BK Lick
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 07:36 PM

I just learned that, according to the CDC, dogs and cats are susceptible to COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/covid-19/pets.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/covid-19-pets-prevention.pdf

The salient facts are:
• The virus that causes COVID-19 can spread from people to animals during close contact.
• The risk of animals spreading COVID-19 to people is low.
• Pets can get serious illness from infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, but this is extremely rare.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 02:09 AM

Our greyhound had a greyt time in a 6 acre enclosed field last night just 10 minutes drive away. We had the 8-9pm slot so nice and cool. The grass was cut short so easy for my wife to push her mobility walker, and to see any dog crap so that it can be removed and put in bins provided.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 02:10 AM

During this 'heatwave' which is apparently going to be very dodgy next week, I'm a bit worried about foolish dog-owners leaving their poor animal in a car while they go shopping etc. You'd think everyone was aware of the suffering this causes (and Police might justifiably smash a car window to save a poor dog from dying) but it does happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 02:23 AM

Doug, by BWMs logic if you complain about cat shit you must have a sad case of ailurophobia and need to be pitied by "rational people"

(Sorry John. I couldn't resist :-) )


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 04:07 AM

I can only speak for myself, Doug

As do the responsible dog owners who have contributed here. This thread was started by a dog owner who listed the bad excuses used by bad owners for the bad behaviour of their dogs. The opening post finished with the perfectly reasonable plea:-

In short, please be careful when allowing your dog off lead and be mindful of others around you.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 04:42 AM

cats at least usually have the courtesy to bury what they do...

Seriously, we've had cats and dogs over the years and I can like both.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 05:05 AM

I'm certain that the dog-owning contributors here are all highly responsible, Doug. Also, I applaud the fact that 'twas Bonzo who started the thread, but would point out that the post would hardly have been needed had the world been replete with similarly responsible owners. Sadly, it seems that for every responsible dog owner (who is in full control, can make his dog walk to heel, who treats it well, who keeps it on a non-expanding lead, who trains it not to bark or to run at people or other dogs and who picks up the shit even when no-one is looking), there are plenty who are utterly unfit to own dogs. It's free, and far too easy, to own a dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 06:09 AM

"every responsible dog owner (who is in full control, can make his dog walk to heel, who treats it well, who keeps it on a non-expanding lead, who trains it not to bark or to run at people or other dogs and who picks up the shit even when no-one is looking)

That certainly accounts for all greyhound owners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 07:00 AM

Good to hear it!

There are lots of elderly people in Bude and surrounds and many own at least one dog. The evidence for bad ownership is all too plain to see (and hear) round here. It's the bad owners that get my goat, not the good ones or the well-behaved dogs. I just wish there were more of them. I still think that all dogs should be licensed and that the cost of a licence should reflect the cost of cleaning the streets and parks of dog mess and the provision and emptying of bins. Of course, any politician trying to impose that would be in the same boat as Biden suddenly banning all guns,doubling the price of petrol or siding with Palestine...


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 07:20 AM

I'd be happy with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 22 - 07:37 AM

3 seconds to reduce dog reactivity!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Interesting for dog owners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 22 - 01:28 PM

We’ve employed the three-second rule for many years with our BT. It was taught to us by the dog-trainer when we took him for training classes during his first couple of years.


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