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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Backwoodsman 15 Jun 24 - 05:58 AM
MaJoC the Filk 15 Jun 24 - 05:51 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jun 24 - 04:12 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 24 - 05:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 24 - 04:52 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 24 - 04:28 AM
MaJoC the Filk 13 Jun 24 - 01:45 PM
DMcG 13 Jun 24 - 05:20 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Jun 24 - 02:22 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jun 24 - 04:12 PM
DMcG 12 Jun 24 - 07:31 AM
Rain Dog 12 Jun 24 - 06:42 AM
DMcG 12 Jun 24 - 04:33 AM
DMcG 12 Jun 24 - 04:28 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jun 24 - 04:50 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 24 - 04:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 24 - 03:29 PM
Rain Dog 11 Jun 24 - 03:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 24 - 02:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Jun 24 - 05:58 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 24 - 10:39 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jun 24 - 06:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 24 - 06:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jun 24 - 06:22 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 24 - 05:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 24 - 03:10 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 24 - 02:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 24 - 02:24 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 24 - 02:20 AM
Raggytash 08 Jun 24 - 08:55 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 24 - 05:52 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Jun 24 - 02:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 24 - 02:15 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Jun 24 - 07:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 24 - 06:40 AM
Raggytash 08 Jun 24 - 06:17 AM
The Sandman 08 Jun 24 - 04:38 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 24 - 08:46 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jun 24 - 07:50 PM
SPB-Cooperator 07 Jun 24 - 08:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jun 24 - 06:16 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 24 - 12:06 AM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Jun 24 - 11:20 AM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Jun 24 - 11:17 AM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Jun 24 - 08:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Jun 24 - 07:10 AM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Jun 24 - 06:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jun 24 - 01:14 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 24 - 01:10 PM
MaJoC the Filk 04 Jun 24 - 01:06 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jun 24 - 05:58 AM

It’s an opportunity to practise my expletives, Dave! Mrs Backwoodsperson practises her expletives too… ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Jun 24 - 05:51 AM

> As soon as I see his face the TV goes off!

*Relief*: At least it's not just me who has an allergic reaction to the sight of known bullshitters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 24 - 04:12 AM

You're braver than me BWM. As soon as I see his face the TV goes off!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 24 - 05:10 AM

Watching Farage on BBC Breakfast this morning, it’s blindingly obvious he’s a one-trick pony. If, by some weird twist of fate, Reform won the election, he’d run a mile - we saw it after the Brexit vote, the next day neither he nor his blond, lying buffoon crony were anywhere to be seen, both scared shitless.

He’s all teeth and trousers, a bag of hot air. He can bluster all he likes because he knows Reform won’t win the election and he will never have to step up to the plate, put his money where his big mouth is, and run the country. How anyone with at least one single working brain-cell can contemplate voting Reform completely baffles me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 24 - 04:52 AM

The Tories don't want an electorate that can think for themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 24 - 04:28 AM

I agree with much of that, MaloC. By way of disclusure, my first degree was mathematics and my master's in Computing, so I am very much of the "sciences" nature.
At degree level, there is so much science and maths to learn that we generally are doing the same as at primary school but at a more advanced level. Learn this, become familiar with manipulating it, move on to the next thing. Deciding which of two experiments may arise at PhD level, but even there is is relatively rare and usually limited to justifying your thesis. It only becomes common when PhD people get into places like CERN.
In the same way it only really surfaced in my maths when deciding whether existing texhnique A, B or C is most applicable to this problem.

I completely agree that you should not be thinking of degrees as direct training. But that is exactly where the idea of scrapping degrees because they don't show "a good return on investment' fails. The relationship is far more subtle and indirect than that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Jun 24 - 01:45 PM

> "Compare and contrast these two experiments"

From the science side of the fence, I'd phrase that as: "Which of these two (or more) experimental approaches is more likely to lead to an accurate result?" And at its cutting edge, mathematics is an art form, which happens to be the language which best expresses scientific thought.

As for the employment of nuclear-physics graduates: It's an unfortunate fallacy that degree courses are specific job training exercises. What they're really for is training people how to think, and more importantly how to learn, for themselves.* Take my case --- I started out in maths, got a bachelor's in electronics and a PhD in a radioastronomy subject, found myself seduced by programming, and ended up doing systems administration for a living.

* Getting fresh new nuclear scientists is something of a side-effect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 24 - 05:20 AM

Thinking about this section of the Conservative manifesto:
"We will fund this by changing the law to close
university courses in England with the worst
outcomes for their students. Courses that
have excessive drop-out rates or leave students
worse off than had they not gone to university
will be prevented from recruiting students
by the universities regulator."

You know, that's going to be tricky to define because what happens to an individual is not what happens to the average. Very few people who study nuclear physics will end up as nuclear physicists: there just aren't that many jobs. Maybe they get a job in something else, but should they have been on a different physics course and we should shut the nuclear physics course?

Or take my daughter, who studied Philosophy. For the best part of a decade she was stuck on zero hour and short term contracts for very low wages, but is now Head of HR and Recruitment for her international firm on a pretty good salary. She credits the skills she learned on her course for a good part of that. Worthwhile course or not?

Humanities are all about evaluating arguments and multiple viewpoints, thinking about what things really mean and what lies behind what was said, seeing alternatives. Sciences and Maths less so. "Compare and contrast these two experiments"? I don't think so.


.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jun 24 - 02:22 AM

Just to set the record straight, no party has any seats. Parliament was dissolved approximately three weeks ago, at which time all MPs lost their seats.

With any luck, that event will have ended 30p-Lee’s parliamentary career permanently…

Apologies for nit-picking, but you know the old saying - “What’s sauce for the goose…”. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 04:12 PM

Dave: Why on earth do the TV news providers keep giving Farage equal air time with the major parties? His party has no seats.

Just to set the record straight, they have won no seats.
They do have a seat for Lee Anderson who defected from the Conservatives in March.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 07:31 AM

When I was in my youth, there was a song often on the radio with the chorus "Everybody wants to go to heaven/But nobody wants to die.' It is an attitude I have been very familiar with for a long time. Yes, people want what tax pays for. No, they don't want to pay the tax.


So it was not so much money I was referring to as almoat the opposite: the manifesto has a view of culture that is entirely based on money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 06:42 AM

So many people want to see more help, money spent, on their particular interests, projects etc. That includes individual voters, organisations, businesses, government departments, councils, NGOs etc etc. On the whole they are not so keen on it being paid for by increased taxes unless it is others paying those increased taxes. Money is going to be tight for whoever gets in. That is the one thing we can all he sure about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 04:33 AM

Accidentally, I only talked about the 'performing' side of culture. There is also nothing about things like museums, historical preservation and other 'non-performing' cultural issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jun 24 - 04:28 AM

I try to read all the manifestos from the parties, so I have been looking at the Conservative one yesterday.

Of relevance here is the section on 'Sport and Culture'. This is one A4 sheet. There are two paragraphs on sport, then roughly one and a half columns on culture.

This deals with three topics.

The first is about making TV and film in the UK. That is economically important, but where films were made is not culturally important, in my view.   

The second is about setting up a review to see if anything can be done to stop pubs and nightclubs closing.

The third is about using the BBC licence fee review to ensure it "represent[s] the perspectives of the entire nation with diversity of thought, accuracy and impartiality as its guiding principles", which is a debate in its own right about who judges such things and whether fairness means something that 99% believe and 1$ should be given equal air time. I would not expect such detail in a manifesto, of course, but what is there implies those questions would have to be answered.

But that's it. Nothing about theatres, orchestras, ballet and other dance. Nothing about how those might feature in the school curriculum. Nothing about the small bands who are finding it more difficult to work in Europe. In short, I would say, only the pubs-and-clubs section is really about culture at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jun 24 - 04:50 PM

Oh go on then! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 24 - 04:24 PM

Who's going to claim 500 then? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 24 - 03:29 PM

It's not even a proper political party, Rain Dog, it's a limited company. They have basically just bought their way into the arena.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Jun 24 - 03:05 PM

They have candidates standing in approx 600 seats, I think.
Hardly surprising that they are getting some media coverage.

Talking of candidates, we have 11 standing here in Dover & Deal. Some people have more money than sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 24 - 02:36 PM

Why on earth do the TV news providers keep giving Farage equal air time with the major parties? His party has no seats. He has failed to be elected 7 times. When he was an MEP, he never attended. It's like them producing a documentary on astro physics with Brian Cox and, to provide a balanced view, letting the bloke who read something on Facebook have his say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jun 24 - 05:58 AM

I wonder if Sunak’s regretting his decision to run a ‘Presidential-style’ campaign yet? Thanks to his disastrous gaffes and easily-called-out deceits (Q: How can you tell he’s lying? A: His mouth’s moving!), ‘Presidential’ isn’t the image of him that’s coming over ATM - ‘Desperate and Failing’ springs much more readily to mind.

Looking at the nation across the ocean, I don't think 'presidential' is something to aspire to.
Of course, France has a 'president' as well. But probably not than an inspiring person.
Putin? I'm starting to see a theme here . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 10:39 PM

Saw a brilliant image on SM yesterday. The famous B&W wartime photo taken from a landing-craft on a Normandy beach, with the troops, backs to the camera, wading ashore into battle, and Photoshopped with an image of a suited-and-booted Sunak, briefcase in hand, getting back into the landing craft, ready for the journey back to Blighty.

The title over the photo? ‘The Longest Half-Day’!

I wonder if Sunak’s regretting his decision to run a ‘Presidential-style’ campaign yet? Thanks to his disastrous gaffes and easily-called-out deceits (Q: How can you tell he’s lying? A: His mouth’s moving!), ‘Presidential’ isn’t the image of him that’s coming over ATM - ‘Desperate and Failing’ springs much more readily to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 06:44 PM

Dave: Any comment on Sunak's "factual inaccuracies" Nigel?

He was definitely wrong to suggest that Wales would have any interest in the soccer.

His suggestion of Labour planning for a £2,000 increase in taxes for each 'working household' has been queried, but we have yet to see what is in the party manifestos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 06:36 PM

Any comment on Sunak's "factual inaccuracies" Nigel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 06:22 PM

Backwoodsman:
Interesting that you haven’t disputed anything in my post other than a small numerical error, Nigel.

But nit-picking is much easier than actually debating an issue, isn’t it?


Apart from the 'small numerical error' (also known as a 'factual inaccuracy') the rest of your post was personal opinion. I cannot argue with your opinions. You are welcome to hold them. Please also allow me to hold mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 05:34 AM

One of the things that’s driving me nuts about the GE Campaign is that it seems almost impossible to get a Tory to talk about Tory policies. On TV and radio, and in the press and on SM, they talk constantly about Labour (including the usual lies, such as Sunak’s ‘£2,000 additional tax under Labour’ bare-faced lie).

Seems to be an indication of how little the Tories have got to offer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 03:10 AM

Fairy Nuff BWM. Apologies if I came across as to harsh. I just find that references to the mysterious "they" get up my nose. I think it is relevant to the topic in that the press use it to smear their favoured party's opponents without the risk of getting sued. I call a spade a spade and, often to my own detriment, speak my mind.

Anyroads, yes, back to the main topic of bringing the government's failings to light. And naming the wrongdoers:-)

Not that it will do much good on an obscure music website but it will make us feel better


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 02:42 AM

LOL Dave! We’ve all done it, and certainly will drop clangers again in future!

And, FWIW, I wasn’t ‘attacking’ anyone - just gently letting those I referred to know that I’m on to them and their little games, no ‘naming and shaming’ necessary. Not an ‘attack’ as such, more an act of self-defence/preservation..

So, subject closed AFAIC, and on with the issues of Brexit & other UK political topics…??


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 02:24 AM

:-D :-D :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 24 - 02:20 AM

As I said elsewhere - Attention to detail… ;-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 08:55 PM

"Being strait" !?

Is that like the Bering Strait only shorter ................?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 05:52 PM

I don't. Honestly! I am not being deliberately anything. I just don't understand obfuscation. If you want to attack someone, just do it. Don't sneak around with the no names, no pack drill blllocks. It's politicians and their weasel ways that got us in this mess. Being strait with people is the better option.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 02:42 PM

I think you’re being deliberately obtuse and you know perfectly well that they exist, and equally well precisely who I’m referring to! As I said - no names, no pack-drill.

Now back to the thread-topic…


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 02:15 PM

We don't know who they are BWM. Name names! Let us in on the secret!

Or is it just like the mysterious "they" as reported in the press? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 07:35 AM

”Backwoodsman, don't forget to pay "attentiuon" to detail !!!!! :-)”

I always do pay ‘attentiuon’ to detail, Raggy, but there’s not much I can do when the source of my information gets it wrong, other than be an adult and have the balls to admit to it. And at least I don’t moan to the Mods and get them to amend/remove my errors and the posts of my critics when they’re pointed out (unlike others around here who shall remain nameless but they know who they are). ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 06:40 AM

:-D :-D :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 06:17 AM

Backwoodsman, don't forget to pay "attentiuon" to detail !!!!! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jun 24 - 04:38 AM

Backwoodsman try paying attentiuon to detail


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 08:46 PM

Interesting that you haven’t disputed anything in my post other than a small numerical error, Nigel.

But nit-picking is much easier than actually debating an issue, isn’t it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 07:50 PM

Basckwoodsman: The BBC and other news sources have always given far to much credence and air-time to Farage, putting him up there alongside leading, successful figures in our political arena, whereas he’s a failure as a politician, having failed to get elected as an MP no less than eight times,

7 attempts is definitely 'less than eight times'
BBC

But don't let facts get in the way of your rant!

And, No, I'm not supporting Farage. Just looking for factual comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 08:07 AM

The trouble is every time that repulsive object is given media opportunities, it gets another opportunity to spread more of its toxic bile.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 06:16 AM

Didn't know whether to post this here or on the joke thread!

Just seen on Facebook. How come Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson and Laurence Fox are commemorating D-Day? Their side lost didn't they...

:-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 12:06 AM

The BBC and other news sources have always given far to much credence and air-time to Farage, putting him up there alongside leading, successful figures in our political arena, whereas he’s a failure as a politician, having failed to get elected as an MP no less than eight times, a former absentee MEP who hardly ever attended the European Parliament (whilst presumably accepting the substantial salary), and a one-trick pony in terms of his focus.

Why anyone would have even the faintest scintilla of interest in anything he has to say is totally beyond my comprehension.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 24 - 11:20 AM

May's red lines ruled out any possible mutually beneficial relationship under EEA or EFTA so I stand by my original assertion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 24 - 11:17 AM

unfortunately not


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 24 - 08:52 AM

Is it just me who thinks that the only reason fartarse is standing and reclaimed leadership of that vile nasty piece of works party is so that revolting g*t will be allowed to open its vile mouth in the all parties' leaders' debate. I hope the presenter will at least have the decendcy to tell it to shut the **** up every time it attempts to starts whining and the TV channel hosting the debate will write to apologise to every household if they fail to make an announcement at the start of the programme that "allowing the s**m to mouth of may make decetn people want to vomit"

You may notice I have heavily toned down what I would really want to say about fartarse, and apologies to any sensitive readers who may be offended by the tome of my language.

Rant over - just glad to get it off my chest so I can get on with more important things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jun 24 - 07:10 AM

impossible to fulfill unless the EU were to rewrite all their treaties with respect to the operation of the single market and customs union in its dealings with third countries
As long as the EU have 'special relationships' with Norway & Switzerland they do not have a single method of dealing with non-EU countries. So expecting to deal along similar lines was not asking for something 'impossible'

but effeminately for us mere mortals.
Sorry, I cannot understand your intended meaning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 24 - 06:08 AM

Nigel, on your first point, the leave campaign made promises that they knew were impossible to fulfill unless the EU were to rewrite all their treaties with respect to the operation of the single market and customs union in its dealings with third countries. On the other hand the remain campaign made predictions as to the impact of leaving which is not a promise. Although the impact was not as disastrous as what was predicted, conditions have worsened, not necessary for the wealthy safe in their bubbles, but effeminately for us mere mortals. To be honest, since leaving the EU the fabric of our society is being dragged into the sewers and makes me question whether life is worth living any more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 01:14 PM

MaJoC, the moderators are not interested in this thread unless things get particularly nasty. Which they haven't.

Condescending twaddle could change that of course...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 01:10 PM

”I believe it was Labour who actually managed to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn (and who now seem to be delighted that he is no longer part of the party)”

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the lies used by the Tories as a character-assassination tactic in their 2019 GE campaign (and which lies undoubtedly played a part in their achieving their landslide victory).

”How can you possibly know who has made a choice based on this as the election has yet to take place?”

Your English Comprehension skills seem to be somewhat lacking, Nigel - I haven’t claimed to know ‘who has made a choice based on this’, I simply gave an example of misinformation being put about by the Tories during the current GE campaign. If you can show where I made the claim that I ‘know who has made a choice based on this’, I would be very interested to see it.

You really do need to train yourself to resist picking at those nits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 01:06 PM

Now now, you two. Put the handbags *down*, and step *away* from your keyboards, before your friendly neighbourhood MudElf happens by.

Meanwhile, back at SPB's comment: The problem would be that nobody would be convinced by a full-bore refutation, as the offender need only cry "conspiracy". Bad rumours become self-propagating, especially if they're juicy.


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