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Subject: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 27 Jun 23 - 06:50 PM OK I have been doing a lot more manual work than just playing the guitar, so maybe I deserve chronic hand pain, It is becoming debilitating. I've swapped guitars several times, and I now own five. I've been wearing pressure gloves, and trying to arrange my club set so it's easier on my hands. I have been limiting my paintwork on wagons to five hours maximum in one session, but I can hardly move my fingers most mornings. So- the point of all this whingeing is that I am trying some Chinese medical treatment today. With your permission, I will report back on this thread. If nobody has anything to say I'll stop posting. I am hoping that if this helps me it may help other sufferers. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Holly Tannen Date: 27 Jun 23 - 10:45 PM Nobody deserves painful hands. Acupuncture can be very helpful, as can acupressure massage (tui na) But I think it would take a few treatments. I saw a hand doctor who took xrays and explained to me what was going on. I bought a paraffin hand bath for around $40. I put diclofenac ointment or aspercreme (topical aspirin) on them, stick 'em in the paraffin, let it dry, wipe if off, then stick hands in cold water. I practice (dulcimer) for just a few minutes, then cold water and/or paraffin. Please let us know if you experience any improvement. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,RJM Date: 28 Jun 23 - 03:09 AM As it is painful to play, maybe just keep your hands flexible with piano finger exercises and practise the songs unaccompanied and maybe include one unaccompanied song in a Set to give hands a break |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 28 Jun 23 - 03:31 AM Thanks, Both. On my way to the Doctor. I do about three unaccompanied per set. Thanks, Dick. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST Date: 28 Jun 23 - 03:50 AM It might be a good idea to practise all songs unaccompanied for a week, possibly look at your diet and include anti inflammatpry foods like pineapple cherries celery. i have become very conscious of diet because i am a a gout sufferer, this may have no effect but it will not do you any harm |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: Acorn4 Date: 28 Jun 23 - 04:00 AM Wishing you all the best on this one - we all get these age related things to different degrees. If the worst comes to the worst you still have that wonderful voice. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 28 Jun 23 - 05:40 AM My sympathies. I get pains in my thumb joints, which I suspect to be arthritis; but that's no great loss to music, as it mainly affects my banjo playing. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 28 Jun 23 - 09:19 AM Just back from the Doctor. Firstly Thank you for your kind comments. I'm under the care of Dr Chen. He escaped from China some 20 years ago without his lovely wife, but she has now joined him. He has worked with several musicians with the same problems. He immediately went to the cause of the pain in my right hand and traced it to my neck and shoulder blade. He repeated it with the left which is not so bad. He then applied acupuncture to most of my back, neck elbow area and hands. The latter two areas had me gritting my teeth in pain but eased in a minute or two. I spent 25 minutes resting over his table, and then he removed the pins and went in hard with a massage, together with hot glass cups. It hurt like hell, especially when he rotated my hand and finger joints. He was concerned enough to ask me to return for a total of six sessions. I do have faith in him, despite paying a not-inconsiderable amount of money to cover the costs of the treatment. Finally, I feel as if I have done five rounds with Tyson Fury, however surprisingly my mood has lifted, and I am hopeful that this thread may help other sufferers. Enough about me for now. No playing or painting today! |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Jun 23 - 10:58 AM That happened to my father, who ended up singing entirely without accompaniment. He had some nice guitars and other instruments that he finally sold because he couldn't use them. Here's hoping that 30+ years out there are more effective treatments. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Sol Date: 28 Jun 23 - 12:32 PM Having had various pains on several parts of my body throught my life, I have never yet had treatment of any kind that contributed to a cure of the ailments. Time has been the regular cure for most cases. Now in my 70s, I'm beginning to get a dull pain in the back of my right hand. I'm hoping Dr. Time will do his magic once again. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: RTim Date: 28 Jun 23 - 01:30 PM I remember Martyn Wyndham-Read staying with us and he practiced on the guitar for an Hour after breakfast - mainly I think Chord shapes and transitions and he said it was just to get his hands moving and to get in shape every morning...the older he was getting, the more difficult it was. Tim Radford |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 28 Jun 23 - 01:49 PM If you need ferrying anywhere Nick, just ask. I may not be about but if I am, I'm only down the road. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 28 Jun 23 - 03:36 PM Thank you all for your interest and advice. Tim I am going to give it tomorrow morning as well as today before I try playing anything, and I will have to restart coach lining and scrolling tomorrow afternoon and Friday. Dave that is a very kind offer but I have an automatic vehicle, and there is an electric hoist for Mally's scooter, so we can get around Ok without any lifting. Thanks again. As an update, I have less pain and more mobility in my neck lower back and hands after this morning's treatment. I am hoping that it lasts. My next appointment is next Wednesday. If I am OK, I'll then put this forward as tested help for musicians with overworked joints. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: Acorn4 Date: 29 Jun 23 - 03:41 AM If the problem is rooted in the shoulder might be worth trying an ice pack there - I've had a bit of success in freeing trapped nerves - a bag of frozen peas will do - might be worth a try. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 29 Jun 23 - 05:05 AM Thanks Acorn. I feel a bit like a punchbag this morning, but my hands are a bit better. My next appointment is on Friday the 7th not Wednesday as i said above. I'll try the ice pack tonight. If the next appointment is effective I'll start posting some details for other sufferers, with the permission of Joe. I have also had some advice on posture while playing guitar. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 01 Jul 23 - 01:27 PM You can try this and try that ad infinitum, and almost everything will seem to help some or help for a while, as optimism kicks in. Go see a medical doctor. Whether it's a GP or specialist is up to you. If you have bad luck and the first one is a dud, try another. The issue may be something you don't expect at all. After that, think about this. I met a man once who was noted for his fast, talky guitar style. He told me he could do it because he had had a luthier replace his frets with extra-large frets which enabled his hands to fly over the fretboard, exerting minimum pressure. This might be worth a try because it would take less effort to play. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 01 Jul 23 - 07:54 PM Thanks, Leeneia. My wife is particularly interested in Holly Tannen's ideas (see the first reply to this thread) and she is going to set up a paraffin wax hand bath. Meanwhile, the pain has returned but not so bad. I'll report again on Friday week after my next session with Dr Chen. She also suggested that Dick Miles had the right idea by suggesting that I increase my unaccompanied work and be encouraged by Acorn (see above) and others, so I am working on it. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,RJM Date: 02 Jul 23 - 03:08 AM I do not know if this is a good suggestion, but i would check out heat treatment such as use of a hair dryer "Soaking in warm water or applying a heated compress is one of the oldest, cheapest, and safest forms of complementary therapy. Research has shown that heat treatments can loosen stiff joints and relieve achy muscles. Here is how it works. When you warm up a sore joint or tired muscle, your blood vessels get bigger." It seems slightly odd to me that both cold and heat are recommended for arthritis, but i suppose if you knew the exact cause of the problem, a correct remedy would be easier to get right. at the moment we do not know what is causing the pain, Tens machines are good pain killers in my experience 2 |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: Steve Gardham Date: 02 Jul 23 - 04:39 AM Good luck, Nick. All my best wishes. Steve |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: gillymor Date: 02 Jul 23 - 01:01 PM John McLaughlin has an interesting way of dealing with arthritis. From an interview in the Irish Times- “I’m still into my yoga and my meditation, because that’s an integral part of my life, and before my meditation, I sit down and go into my hands and I talk to them, and I tell them how beautiful they are, how much I love them, and how marvellous and miraculous they are. Now, since the last three years, I have no pain at all. I’ve never felt better musically. We are capable of amazing things, but we underestimate ourselves.” I'm doing this, I figure it can't hurt but I've been dealing with it in both hands for about 15 years now and I've managed it somewhat with a lot of stretching and strengthening exercises that I got from a therapist after a thumb arthroplasty and by easing the action on my instruments with lighter strings and going with instruments with shorter scales and capoing up the neck more with different chord voicings. Another thing I've done is shifting the position of the guitar, I've found that angling the neck up a bit and moving the instrument slightly to the right makes barre chords a little easier, basically just going with what's comfortable. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 02 Jul 23 - 02:16 PM Thanks, Steve and Dick, and also Gillymor. I have swapped to lighter strings and also reangled the guitar. I seem to be OK while I'm playing but then in some fairly acute pain afterwards. I was playing at a private gathering this afternoon, and my right hand has had it for today, but my left just feels a bit tired. Funny because I'm left-handed, and I was painting all morning. This I suppose tells me to take Dicks advice and get some exercise going on the right hand thumb joints. (And then fill a bowl with warm water, and swipe the hair dryer!) Thanks again. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 07 Jul 23 - 04:58 PM Another painful session this morning. extended acupuncture, and a deeper massage. There is a definite improvement in my mobility generally. I played for an hour tonight, and my hands although tired are still better than a week ago. In light of this, I would urge other guitarists to consider a few treatments. The price will be in excess of £200 for six, which has to be factored into your decision. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 07 Jul 23 - 04:58 PM Another painful session this morning. extended acupuncture, and a deeper massage. There is a definite improvement in my mobility generally. I played for an hour tonight, and my hands although tired are still better than a week ago. In light of this, I would urge other guitarists to consider a few treatments. The price will be in excess of £200 for six, which has to be factored into your decision. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 21 Jul 23 - 07:11 PM Coming up to the end of the sessions with Dr Chen. The massage was a deep tissue one today and very painful. Unfortunately, I lost the use of my right hand for a while afterwards. This evening I couldn't turn a door handle or grasp anything. I put on some pressure gloves and slowly the use came back. I'm glad to say that mobility returned and is better than before. My back and neck are also easier. Next Friday is the last treatment, and I think it has all been worthwhile, so I would recommend it to other sufferers. Dr Chen works in Burnley Lancashire and is easy to find, and he may recommend other practitioners. I have decided to divide my time 50-50 between unaccompanied songs and guitar. There is no point in undoing all the good work. So this will be my last post on this thread unless there are questions and I hope it has been a help if you are in the same situation after years of making music. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,RJM Date: 22 Jul 23 - 01:58 AM Good luck with your music and good health |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST Date: 27 Jul 23 - 02:47 PM I wish you all the best, Nick -from your biggest fan (well, in Southampton at least!) |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: Steve Gardham Date: 28 Jul 23 - 05:12 PM All the best, Nick! |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: vectis Date: 01 Aug 23 - 01:26 AM Hi Nick, My hands started hurting a year or so ago. I got a blood test to check for rheumatoid arthritis which came back positive. The New Zealand health service gave my hands and feet a thorough checkout via untrasound, xRays and MRI scans so I know what damage is already there. Conventional treatment of painkillers prescribed and working so far. Try to get tested to eliminate or confirm whether you have RA or not. Best guitar moved to someone else and light weight strings on the other guitar rendering it playable. Lots of unaccompanied stuff with a few needing guitar has proved the best route for me. Best of luck for the future. XX |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Bob the Shantyman Date: 03 Aug 23 - 10:16 AM I hope that your hands heal soon Nick. I suspected that my hands were beset with osteoarthritis and my GP referred me to an Ortho, Consultant who gave me steroid injections. On the day he told me that it would hurt - it did. As the injection took place the pain was massive, but soon wore off. When I saw a physio for follow-up, she treated me to a hot wax hand bath which felt really comfortable and helped - a lot. We bought a hand bath and wax on our way home from the hospital. I only need to use it occasionally but it is well worth the investment. I am even getting to grips with an English concertina and so far the fingers have only complained once. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: Guitarists painful hands (Nick Dow) From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 03 Aug 23 - 06:29 PM Things are a lot better thanks to Dr Chen. I'll be getting a wax hand bath soon. |
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