Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000

Subject: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: GaryD
Date: 06 Feb 00 - 09:04 PM

A while back there was a discussion about another edition of Rise up Singing, from Sing Out..any news about how long before available? was wading through copyright ok's... I love the old one & it's getting dog-eared.. want more songs in that great format.. best music buy I've made in a while.. Thanks.. Gary

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 12:08 AM

Don't they have a website? I think I went there once. If you find it and ask them direct, please share with 'catters.

I didn't like the format for the chording though, do you? I found they didn't work well for people who didn't already know the song well. we do a lot of songleading for singers and players, so that was a problem. I did like the categories and artwork tho.

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 08:48 AM

Peter Blood, RUS editor told me awhile ago (he's sort of a distant in-law of mine) that it will still be a couple of years in all likelihood before RUS II comes out. Also mentioned that he's aware of the criticism of RUS for excessive PC-ness, and there will be somewhat wider scope, more bawdy and rowdy material, in "Gender-Neutral Offspring of Rise Up Singing".

As for the chord notation, it works pretty well given that you have to learn the tune somewhere else anyway--and folk music SHOULD be learned primarily by ear! It takes a few minutes to get onto it, but it's well worth the effort. (You do have to learn to count bars, another invaluable skill.) I don't think they could go any lower-common-denominator with their available resources. I do find that the chords presented are often oversimplified and sometimes just wrong--but try telling a "by-the-book" devotee that...

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 03:37 PM

Oh I like the format fine for my own home study and then it is a handy reminder what chords I want once I know the song... it just is hard to start a jam session re-orienting everyone to how the book works, and hard to get people to pony up for a copy when they have had trouble making it ework for them... we try very hard to get all levels of players participating and the most loved format seems to be chords above words, in each and every verse.

We specialize in activating the inner music channel we believe is hard-wired into every human soul, especially those who are completely convinced they are non-musical. So any barrier we can eliminate has to go. Our people tend to want more and more songs, and less time polishing them... they may go home and polish but when we play together it's a giant song sampler with as many sampled as possible before the older and geezier among us are too tired to keep going-- and we have the keys to the place so when we fall over, that's it!

Anyone passing though N Central PA definitely contact me, we have a ball!

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 04:03 PM

Hi - I e-mailed Peter Blood and asked him to drop by and give us an update.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: GaryD
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 11:31 PM

Thanks, Joe... I'll be sure to keep in touch..I know that there's an incredible wade through copyright restrictions, but it sure would be nice to speed up the process.. I still don't know how they solved the problem with the great music HERE!.. Incidentally, can I copy songs here & from DT & pass them out to sing at non profit functions like jams? ...Gary

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Feb 00 - 11:55 PM

Don't go there!

Seriously, I don't think copyright problems are ever really solved, and they seem to be a current issue in Mudcat. See current thread about "Mudcat Under Attack" and related older threads linked through the current one...

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 01:47 AM

Well, Peter Blood says there's been a delay, and publication date is unknown. Problems getting permissions. Darn.
In the meantime, might I recommend a new book from Dover Press, 500 Best-Loved Song Lyrics (click)? No tunes or chords, but there are some good old songs in this book.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Dharmabum
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 07:39 AM

Been hearing rumors for years about a RUS#2.Shame we've got to wait a few more, but I guess all good things take time. Where in N central PA,Praise? I've got a place in Ulysses. [e-mail] Ron.

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 09:26 AM

Hey, if you're tired of RUS #1, you're not the only one. But where did this notion start that all the good songs should fit into one book? Go find some other sources. Start here. You've got a keyboard and a printer hooked up, right? Use them.

W-O

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 09:43 AM

I have quite a few songbooks and can never resist one if it has at least one song I really want to learn and a fair price. I have found "new" verses to some old favorites this way and I enjoy seeing how different arrangements of the same tune go.

To keep them organized fairly early on, I started xeroxing the covers & tables of contents to go into a binder. That lets me know what I have (in case I've lent one, I note who/when) and it makes finding a song much easier than pulling down every book to look in the indexes. Whatever I adapt or re-arrange then gets copied into my personal playing binders.

How do you keep organized without being so organized you never play?

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 02:59 PM

Believe it or not, there are some very organized people out there who play a lot--My guitar teacher, old Uncle Albert, has folders of charts and sheet music for every repertoire of songs that he performs--even more amazing, he has lead sheets that are transposed for horns--

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 05:05 PM

I got an e-mail back from Sing Out! today which confirmed what Peter Blood said - the copyright permissions are taking a long time to obtain, and that's what's holding up the process. They have no idea when the book will be published.
There are drawbacks to everything, I suppose, but Rise Up Singing has worked very well for the Sacramento Family Song Circle for many years. We try hard to be open to non-singers, and I'd say two-thirds of our people are not what you'd call "musicians." There are some talented musicians who stay away from us because we don't offer enough of a challenge for them, but our circle fills the needs of the ordinary people who just want to have a good time singing in a group. Rise Up Singing suits us because it gives everybody access to the lyrics of a wide variety of songs. For group singing, nothing can beat it.
We do try to keep the circle fresh by introducing a few new songs every month, but we spend most of our time singing the "old favorites" that most people know. I admit that I go to several other groups to get a wider variety of music, but I have to say I like our family song circle best.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 08 Feb 00 - 11:56 PM

Can't beat Silber's FolkSingers Wordbook IMHO. JAB

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: canoer
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 02:00 AM

Agree, for groups, it's RUS plus Silber's plus "The Ultimate Fake Book" and everyone can sing forever. Lomax's big black "Folksongs of North America" (if I recall right) is nice to look at occasionally; and it's got chords where the chords otter be.

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 09:49 AM

Been looking for the songbooks mentioned, can you provide publisher info so I can order?

Our group seems to attract more players than singers, except when the nursiong homes, etc. call us to come over, then we use a binder of accumulated strange stuff. I am very careful never to copy a large amount out of any one source nor a large amount of any one song, bnecause we use them more for the small number of us who comne regularly and we regulars buy the books. I feel like we support the songbooks by each of us being avid purchasers of anything with what looks like good new material or good traditional material with arrangements we may not have had.

We aren't big enough or in a good enough local economy to get books funded, except hymnals, etc. thru the church's music budget. No one seems to have the will or energy to do a fundraiser or the heart to charge for our house calls. It's more a ministry and a fellowship with us, I think.

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 06:06 PM

Praise,

I think both Irwin Silber's book and Alan Lomax's are out-of-print. Actually, I am sure about Lomax's. You can certainly find Lomax on a used book site. You may also find Silber there. Let your fingers do the walking.

Roger in Baltimore (and a hearty welcome to you, newbie!)

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: GaryD
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 06:29 PM

Great food for thought..I'm going to try to obtain some of those you mentioned.. By the way, I don't know why, but my address for SING OUT doesn't work any more..can't find a new one..are they down right now? Which one do you use?

"Musc Reflects the Soul of Mankind"...anon.

Subject: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 07:33 PM

Hmmm. A search for "Irwin Silber" at Barnes & Noble brings up an interesting variety of books, including Folksinger's Wordbook. A search for "Blood Patterson" brings up Rise Up Singing - the spiral-bound edition is listed as "other format" (paperback is immediately available, but not as easy to use - better to wait the 1-2 weeks required for spiral).
A search for "Alan Lomax" brings up the paperback edition of American Ballads and Folk Songs, and also a new reissue of a terrific collection of songs for activists, Hard Hitting Songs for Hard-Hit People.
As I stated above, you may like 500 Best Loved Song Lyrics from Dover Press, which is a good tool for group singing.
A search for fake book will bring up a treasure chest of books, but they're quite expensive. Still, maybe $36 isn't a bad price to pay for tunes and lyrics to 1200 or more songs. My favorite is The Ultimate Jazz Fake Book from Hal Leonard, and Warner's The Most Fantastic Fakebook In The World (get a load of THAT title).

Oh, by the way, Sing Out! is at http://www.singout.ORG/
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 07:45 PM

Tanks, youse guys.

Have the Anne & Frank Warner Collection "Traditional American Folk Songs" and will tyr for the others. Also have vol. 1 of a large Jerry Silverman collection that's good, and he did a blues collection to which we have.

I have so much stuff I can't imagine there are songs I don't have but there are!!

Roger in Baltimore-- Newbie dooby do to you and a hearty thanks for the hearty mates at Mudcat like yourself!

Do newbies get tired of Mudcat or do they just move on in and never go home?

Why can't we get a good cup of coffee here?

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Feb 00 - 07:46 PM

Tanks, youse guys.

Have the Anne & Frank Warner Collection "Traditional American Folk Songs" and will try for the others. Also have vol. 1 of a large Jerry Silverman collection that's good, and he did a blues collection to which we have.

I have so much stuff I can't imagine there are songs I don't have but there are!!

Roger in Baltimore-- Newbie dooby do to you and a hearty thanks for the hearty mates at Mudcat like yourself!

Do newbies get tired of Mudcat or do they just move on in and never go home?

Why can't we get a good cup of coffee here?

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: Dani
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 09:18 AM

'cause the waitstaff is all hung over from hanging out at the Mudcat Tavern, I guess.

Care to open the Mudcat Diner? Anyone who can pronounce 'youse guys' knows a good diner when he smells one.

Cheers,

Dani

Subject: RE: Help: Update on 'Rise up Singing' 2000
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 11:56 AM

I don't think you would care to eat what I seem to specialize in dishing out, heh heh heh but seriously, I think the Just Desserts projects is already taking us in that direction.

Remember when folkies were the only people smart enough to drink espresso?

To the diner!

We will need new "cat names reflecting our diner personalities. Obviously it's a 24 hour one and breakfast is the main event after all-nighters.

What would be served at the Mudcat Diner? Will the Thought for the Day become a daily breakfast special?