EGO. Does size matter??

Subject: EGO. Does size matter??
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:46 PM

I have made some harsh remarks here about people that an ego, larger than their talent or whose ego's get in the way of the music. However in all truth, in order to perform to any degree, we all do need this 'thing'. The trick is to find the balance between the confidence and self-belief required to perform whilst maintaining the requirements to remain an acceptable human being.

It would be interesting (and good gossipy fun) to hear of any examples of those who do not manage this, for I am sure we all know some. It would be good to learn from these and to find out if anyone describes us. (There is talk of one such individual on Rick's 'airplay' thread).

I think part of the trick is to always accept that they will those who will be those better than you and that there will always be those who are worse than you and to be prepared to listen, encourage and learn from both of these groups.

If I am honest and there does not seem much point in saying anything here if you are not, part of me is very competitive and only likes to play games I am good at and that I can win. It has taken a long time to recognise this and move on to where I can still be competitive without needing to destroy the opposition or find a new game. The ageing process helps with this.

A little competition musically is not entirely a bad thing, as it does tend to stretch you but it is not a war. Maybe this competitive urge, is more a 'man' thing?

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:22 PM

I think there's a distinction between showing off and being competitive.

I find myself wanting to get up and show off sometimes, let people see that I have some good stuff to share, and that I belong there in the circle where people are making the music.But I don't think I feel competitive within the circle. I think, for me, making music is much more about sharing and cooperating and building a common language and culture than it is about competition.

But then maybe if I thought I was good enough to just blow people away, maybe that's what I'd want to do. But I don't think I would, because the people I most admire in the folk world, like Martin Carthy, aren't like that.

Clearly there are some people for whom an intense competitive drive is important. When it's allied to major talent, like Bob Dylan, it may be a pain, but we reap the benefits, I suppose. When the ego is bigger than the talent, it's just a drag, but it can go along with some kind of success for some people, perhaps more in other types of music.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: MK
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:38 PM

An old axiom.....always be nice to the people you meet on the way up the ladder, because eventually you'll be seeing them again on the way down.

It's not about competing unless you go to Winfield, Kansas every year.

It's about doing and making, from what is within your soul. If what you play, makes others feel inferior, then it's their problem. If listening to someone else who you decide is better than you, and, it makes you feel in some way, inferior, then it's your problem.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:48 PM

I think "ego" is an absolute neccesity to be a "Sucess", a la Dylan et. al. But is it necessary to play well, or perform well? Probably not, there is a difference between ego and self confidince. I like to think that I have the necessary amount of the former, and more of the latter. I am not at all competitive in any area--stage fright galore the 2 times I competed in fiddle contests, but I would love to be on Stage 1 Winfield--even right after McCutcheon!

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:14 PM

Hello All, I have always been amazed that people don't throw me off the stage every time I get up there. For me the joy and need to do it is so great that I have always left it up to the crowd to choose if they want to be there:I have to be...... I guess I have enough "Ego -Force " to allow me to leave their discition up to them. I think almost everything in the arts comes from the compultion to have to do it . There realy isnt any choice about if you want to do it, it's more that you have to do it. Scared or not you are "Called". Is ego force and ego different???? I hope recogniseing Ego force and not always being led by one's ego might be different. Any thoughts out there??? All the best Guy. PS I'm off to San Francisco for the next two days and then on to lecture at the Phili flower show. I will look in soon.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 09:17 PM

been tossing and turning this topic so long .... that misfortunes seem like success in my songs.... competing to be what I naturally am.... might be feeding the hogs while I'm eating their ham....

the integrity shown on a stage before judges.... or the politics in through the court bearing grudges..... does not indicate who is trusty and clean..... nor can we discover ourselves when were mean....

but the high flying ego, does soar on hot air.... to proove itself always is it's only care..... the folk in folk music, didn't find themselves there.... the fun say, the great say, let the ego beware!

Oh! I insist! in the credible hours.... on the meaning of freedom from fighters and towers..... in the thrill and the thrall of the performer's call.... as a folky, no joky, youre there for us all!

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:08 PM

Hope spaw doesn't get hold of this one, --OF COURSE SIZE MATTERS!!

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 11:29 PM

I believe that one must have a certain amount of ego to perform at all. Those who have control of their ego make it work for them.

The first time I ever met John McCutcheon I had no idea who he was. He was not yet a national name. I was just learning to play the fiddle and was very proud of the tunes I knew. A group of us were sitting around at a festival picking (I was the only fiddler) when this figure appeared out of the dark and stood listening. As he was carrying a fiddle case some one asked him to sit in. He declined, saying that he prefered to listen. And listen he did, for a good half hour before moving on.

Next day I saw him on stage and was blown away. He could have done it the night before but chose not to.

troll

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 03:00 AM

YES! I knew I liked McCutcheon for more reasons than one.

That's a true gentleman, I think--good story, Troll, and good point, too. It isn't necessary (or desirable either) to shine "just because you can."

A little courtesy and respect for other people go a long way in my book.

Lin

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 03:07 AM

I heard the term some time ago, "Rational Self Interest" used to define the healthy use of ego...

And I kinda like it...

But that's just my opinion... LOL!!!

{~`

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 11:33 AM

nice, troll, I say yes!.... if we get to be best.... we stiil do the test..... on ourselves with the rest.

the ones in I see.... that competency.... do graciously.... supportive belief.

it isnt the size that cheapens the prize but critical eyes placed to injure nice tries.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 01:57 PM

I am surprised not to see more examples of those that have got the balance wrong.

Am I the only one to experience the player who does not add to any of the earlier proceedings but waits to the end and hogs the stage? This one usually hasn't bothered to bring their own instrument but will expect someone who has to give up the time that they could be playing their instrument, so that the star can shine.

Or the one who insists on playing the same fast riff, loudly to any and every song being played?

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:08 PM

or the too loud obnoxious ones, expressing their din.... or the nervous anxiety of those who must WIN!.... or the feigned friendly greetings again and again.... or the backhanded compliments, the slight of hand sin....

rumbley tumbley shall we all just dive in?

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 02:31 PM

Well, since it was about ego, we all started talking about ourselves... Figures.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 06:25 PM

can we be the best by just being ourselves,... just like regular folk? do regular folk need to be the best? are normal people competitive? are regular people normal? are irregular people eating improper food group combinations? do people who compete to be the LEAST competitive show any less ego? is it possible for someone to just "be good" without concerning themselves with the "pecking order"? does anyone get better because of their social positioning? ttr

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Caitrin
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:00 PM

Well...
I tend to be a little schitzophrenic about my musical ability. On one hand, I think I'm a pretty good singer. On the other, I worry that I'm really not and I'm just fooling myself. As a result, I tend to crave compliments and attention.
I figure some ego is necessary for being a successful performer. There are so many people who will shoot you down that you need a pretty thick skin to survive it all with your psyche intact.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:51 PM

I think it was musical ego that drove me to want to play--just the fact that others could sing and play music made me kinda jealous. So here I am, a good music player, at least from what I've heard, and after years of family telling me I had a lousy voice, I learned sound volume and vibrato by myself, and can now sing baritone well, I think, but others would probably think I'm bad. My ego to perform is almost noexistent. I'm am so frightened and nervous when playing for anyone but myself, that I can't play right, which destroys the whole concept of performing. There is so much I want...and so much that is impossible for me to grab onto. I guess I'll end up a musical Emily Dickinson or something. It's like Foster & Lloyd say: "Man...I can't have nothin'!"

--Mbo

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: MMario
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 09:54 PM

Mbo - you're not the only one. I was shaking so hard the other night it's a wonder I could hold the button down. For thirty years the most common description of my singing voice I ever heard was "dying cow"

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:07 PM

Well, folks, I got news from you about Mbo, which he won't confess to tho' he knows it right well. He has been doin' a litle cyber footsie with me own Barky and sent her a file of himself singing in that there baritone of his. And itis one mighty fine, no qualifications, baritone! I said so, and more important, Barky said so! So it must be a fact, in my opinion!

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: MMario
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:09 PM

true 'nuff.

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:16 PM

Amos, that was more of a light tenor. I'll sing "Stars" from "Les Miserables" on Hearme on Sunday, then everyone can heard what my real baritone sounds like.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 10:33 PM

One of the greatest gift given to human beings is the ability to product music. As for our egos, I would say that is something we have to constantly contend with to assure it does not interfere with our heart's desire to create song.
Little Neo

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 00 - 11:46 PM

ME thinks there are two qualities to "ego" although its not a word I use. One is strength, meaning resilience, and persistance, and certainty. The other is the assertion of these without merit, which makes for grandiose claims and all the other things so off putting to us critters. It is almost as though the negative kind is a dramatization of the positive...

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 08 Mar 00 - 07:43 AM

Amos, maybe the negative kind is grandiose and the positive kind is grandeur.
We inheritantly have grandeur (though most of us don't realize it). It is a natural quality of the Self.
But the ego seeks grandiose, like you said a negative greedy kind of dramatization of the positive.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: EGO. Does size matter??
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Mar 00 - 10:28 AM

the greedy ego sets the stage.... for dreams of power are "all the rage".... to eat a slice of pie undone.... could surely spoil our dancing fun....

so when we offer these tasty bits.... to those who come with even wits.... they must remember flaky crust.... and nicely cooked inspires trust....

ttr, well done, mad catters!