BS: I'm scared of Americans and Guns

Subject: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST,lizzie
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:25 PM

I'm new here, and I live in england.

Why do so many of you americans want to have guns? Nobody with any sense needs a gun. Humanity invented these things called 'words' a while back - used reasonably, they work quite well!

please stop wanting 'the right' to own guns, it makes me scared

Lizzie

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST, Threadie
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:34 PM

Right on darlin'. Imagine the Brits with guns eh?

Oh Praise....?, another newbie.

Come and welcome her....

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:45 PM

Lizzie...it's a bit difficult for a hunter to bring down a deer by shouting "Bang! You're dead!" The use of a rifle is generally more effective. And believe it or not, the preservation of many of our wilderness and wetlands area here in America is often directly attributable to hunters. I own a 16 ga shotgun and an 8mm Mauser hunting rifle myself, and I do believe in the right of citizens to the responsible possession and use of such dangerous weapons for activities related to hunting.

I will not attempt to excuse the possession of handguns, semi-automatic, or automatic weaponry by the public. There is, I believe, no excuse for possession and use of such. And I believe that the use of shotguns and rifles should be more tightly controlled, through a licensing program such as that used by the Motor Vehicle Bureaus in most states. I also believe that fines and punishments for crimes in which guns are used should be greatly increased in severity.

When you state that "nobody with any sense needs a gun", you badly oversimplify the case regarding guns and gun control.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:50 PM

Don't be scared of us. What you see on the news about people killing each other with guns and what not is actually a fairly small percentage of the American population (I know these damn statistics again that have been shown over and over again). I grew up in North Idaho where guns are pretty prevalent (hunting rifles and handguns). I grew up around guns and I know how to use them. You have to understand though that with our country's history and the histories of the people who fled here from their own governments and other persecutors, a good many folks here are leery of the government taking away anything they see as being theirs by right. That is all I have to say on the subject. Blessed be.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: JedMarum
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:52 PM

this is a joke, right?

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:54 PM

Well, Lizzie - I have to admit that although I'm strongly in favor of banning handguns and restricting the use of hunting weapons, gun's aren't something you see every day in the United States. Sure, you see police officers carrying them in their holsters, but I can recall only one occasion in my life when I saw somebody carrying a gun in a way that frightened me. The guy and his wife had shotguns pointed at me, afraid that I was some sort of bad guy. It took me a while to convince them that I was indeed a Federal agent, armed only with a ballpoint pen. After that, they settled down and put away their guns, and we all had a good old time.
-Joe Offer, retired fed-

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Caitrin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 06:56 PM

First, all guns are not used for killing people. Some are used for hunting and target shooting. Many people who want to own guns do not want them for the purpose of shooting people. The idea that everyone who has a gun plans to kill someone is positively ridiculous. It is a serious mistake to equate a hunting rifle with a handgun. Used responsibly, guns should not be feared. They should be respected and treated with a definite sense of their power. Unfortunately, there are lots of gun owners who do not treat their weapons with proper respect, which results in my father having to pick up a woman whose chest has been perforated by a shotgun which was left chambered, cocked, safety off, ready to fire, and unattended. Also unfortunately, there is a criminal element which does use guns for killing people. Thus, many people feel the need to have a gun for protection from others with guns. So, yes, there are many Americans who want to have guns because there are people on whom words are not effective.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST,Lizzie
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:01 PM

This is what scares me:

I say that no-one with any sense should need a gun. Lonesome EJ then tells me that I'm naive.

Maybe I am, but I'm scared by the fact that I even need to bring this up:

Guns are wrong!

Guns kill people!

Gun control NOW!

Sorry, but I feel strongly

Lizzie

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Margo
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:01 PM

So Lizzie, what do you do when someone WON'T negotiate with words? It's a FACT that words don't always work. The British troops were very surprised to find the American colonial farmers armed and ready to stand up for themselves. I guess not much has changed there! :o)

Margo

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:03 PM

Lizzie; While I can understand your feelings about guns, I must say I am a bit dismayed that you are scared of us Americans. Yes, the press does tend to convey a violent society when America is mentioned and there is some truth to that. But, it is a small minority of our society. I own one gun a replica 1863 Springfield that I use strictly at Civil War reenactments. I have fired live rounds meaning bullets through it once at a demonstration for the Boy Scouts. I like to think I'm a nice and non-threatening guy. If you base your fear on what the media portrays, then I hope that you will either visit us here in the United States or get to know some of us here at Mudcat. I believe that will allay your fears. V/R Neil

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:07 PM

I've known English people with guns and they would be just as scarey as Americans if they wanted to use them the wrong way...

Jon

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Caitrin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:14 PM

I hate sounding so bloody NRA-ish, but this is ridiculous! A handgun is NOT the same thing as a hunting rifle. I firmly stand by my right to kill deer and eat them. Words are not known for their ability to create venison. Where does your dinner come from, Lizzie? Unless you're a vegetarian, somebody killed it. Now, whether he used a gun or not, I'm not sure. However, it's definitely quite dead. People tend to complain, otherwise. Every gun is not used for killing a person!

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:21 PM

Caitrin, I have been a vegetarian at times in my life but I have never had anything against a person who shoots an animal for food. I do however object those who kill animals for pleasure... brings me on to one of my pet hates - fox hunting - I'd love to see the participants swap roles with the fox.

Jon

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: JedMarum
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:35 PM

and why are we so willing to ban handguns? firearms are not only for hunting? Who needs to hunt in America, these days?? Very few of us! Handguns I believe are owned primarily for personal defense. I realize many people also owns them for the sport of target shooting, and even some for hunting.

I believe we ought to consider banning alcohol. It destroys many many many more lives each year then do firearms, and it has no value to a reasonable person.

and while we're at it; I don't like bad things. Let's stop them all from happening!

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:50 PM

Jed, didn't they try banning alcohol in the US once and didn't that bring about an increase in deaths by gun shots?

Jon

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: JedMarum
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:55 PM

yes - and yes; gun shots, bombs, stabbing, widespread lawlessness.

that's my point. it wouldn't work.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Caitrin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 07:58 PM

I agree, Jon. Respectable hunters eat what they kill. I have serious problems with people who shoot animals for trophies.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 08:19 PM

Lizzie: Obviously, you've stepped in a wee bit of a pile here. I don't hunt because I don't need the meat. But In this country much as people don't like it, our constitution does specify the right(Not Privilige) to keep and bear arms and maintain a well regulated militia. (People tend to forget the well regulated part of that statement) Trying to ban anything in this country tends to become a sticky situation. I am not a real big fan of hand guns and I am no fan of assault weapons.(Those are not sport weapons and no-one I know who hunts would consider using an AK-47 to hunt deer). Our government need to strt tacking on some serious jail time and punitive fines when guns are used in a crime or are provided to minors. Again, welcome to our country and to Mudcat Cafe. I believe, in time, you will find both to be a positive experience. Best of luck, Neil

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST,Twitchy
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 08:26 PM

What you should really be more scared of are:

Iranians, Islamic Fundamentalist countries or North Koreans with nukes...

...or the U.S. become militarily involved in the Taiwan dispute with China.


There. Now you have something to be genuinely concerned about. Sleep well tonight.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 09:38 PM

On another thread, a UK woman appeared from time to time in various incarnations with various aliases, bemoaning American patriotism, capitalism, lack of gun control, and what not. Now Lizzie, if you're the same gal, please don't open one of your endless cans of worms (that's American for Pandora's box). The two cities in the USA with the strongest anti-gun laws are Washington DC and New York; they also have the highest rate of violent crime. If you think that outlawing guns will solve the problem, then all Britain has to do is outlaw them in Northern Ireland and voila! everything is peaceful and problem solved.

If you are another alias of Red Barbie or Plane Jane, please cut out the anti-American stuff on this site; it doesn't belong here. If you are someone else, well, God help us! Two of you over there?

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 09:45 PM

And, there are ALREADY SEVERAL GUN DEBATE THREADS! This one smells like a rat!

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: JedMarum
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 10:11 PM

agreed kat and bud, hence my first comment; "this is a joke, right?"

...course I still got sucked in!

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST,moonchild
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 10:12 PM

I JUST LOVE IT WHEN I SEE THREADS ... ASKING IF WE AMERICANS KNOW THAT WE ARE HATED; KNOW THAT WE ARE DISLIKED; KNOW THAT WE ARE THOUGHT OF AS FOOLS BY OTHER COUNTRIES ... THAT ALL AMERICANS ARE MURDERERS BECAUSE WE DON'T BAN FIREARMS ... THAT ALL AMERICANS ARE WARMONGERS BECAUSE WE HAVE AIDED OTHER COUNTRIES.

It is a privilege to post your thoughts on this website, which, in case you haven't figured it out is the "child" of an American, with it's homebase in an American City, in an American State, and funded by many American Dollars, as well as "dollars" from overseas.

So ... if you don't like Americans ... find a website that is maintained by Cuba or Russia or Iran or Iraq and see how far you get when you voice your opinions about them.

For those of you who wonder what it's like to be the Ugly American, let me tell you ...

I "lost" a fiance to the Vietnam conflict and have regretted not standing tall to be counted during that time, with the knowledge that it would have been my right as an American to do so.

I marched and demonstrated for the right of all women to make their own choices regarding their bodies, with the knowledge that it was my right as an American to do so.

I have "fought" everyday in my career for other women and men to be treated fairly and equally in whatever careers they choose ... and I continue to do so because it has made a difference.

I was "raised" with my parents telling me everyday that I could be whatever I wanted because of those basic rights outlined in the Constitution of the United States.

None of us live in Utopia, g-d forbid ... and human nature and genetics and environment will always be in evidence.

And ... before any of you tell me to calm down, I've been reading this dreck for several days and I am calm.

So, before you slam Americans, please clean up your own backyard ... moonchild

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 10:24 PM

Calm down Moonchild, I only see one post that maybe anti-American and if it is that rather than niaevity, it is surely a troll.

Jon

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: thosp
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:02 PM

Lizzie ---- in that order?

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: canoer
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:06 PM

Dear Lizzie,

I've got all the guns & rural hunting upbringing etc. abovementioned. And I still think you are perfectly right to be scared. We who are in this country, with its unique history, looking from the inside outward, think it's quite normal. But I have no doubt that the rest of the world, from outside looking in, has more than sufficient grounds for pause.

Quite a situation, ain't it?

--Larry C.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Metchosin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:45 PM

canoer, I too grew up in a household full of guns, with bullet holes in the venetian blinds to prove it. As a child was I scared? Yer damned right I was! And this was a household with a responsible "hunter" who taught his children to "respect" his weapons.

Did my brother and I bring our children up in a "household of guns" and in the same manner? No bloody way!

I too find the "culture of the gun" frightening Lizzie, despite the fact that some of its aspects are not foreign to me.

"I've seen the bullet and the damage done" with apologies to Neil Young.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Mbo
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:46 PM

Y'know, back in the 20's, animals in stockyards that ended up on our dinnerplates weren't killed with guns, but with sledgehammers.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Metchosin
Date: 19 Apr 00 - 11:51 PM

now they use an explosive bolt, Mbo, split the difference.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: canoer
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:02 AM

Give it up, Mbo, how much profit can there be in supplying sledgehammers to people who want weapons?

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:11 AM

If you want to see how long responsible and rational people stay responsible and rational, put them through a divorce.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: DougR
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:13 AM

Let's ban sledgehammers!

DougR

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Biskit
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:17 AM

Lizzie, I understand your fear,I don't partake in it but I understand. What I fear are people like yourself screaming to take the guns away from honest lawabiding citizens. Are we to let only the criminals have guns? how would I protect my beloved wife and children from these same said criminals? I cannot even hope to convince you that there are BAD PEOPLE in this world, people that could do harm to you and the people you love if you had no-way to protect yourself.But the criminal element is the minority not the majority in this country, most of us are everyday hard workin' god fearin' types that would, only when the lives of our loved ones or our selves are threatend with violence respond in kind. I know of NO-ONE that would look forward to such a thing, except the ones that we protect our selves against.Stand up for what you believe in Lizzie, but don't try to force your beliefs on other people that's facism and that won't fly in this country.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: JamesJim
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:17 AM

Does a water gun count? I have two of em'.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:18 AM

Just a bit of history, canoer...no suggestions on my part.

--Mbo (who read "The Jungle")

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:34 AM

it's time to chnage the constitution? because you don;t agree with it? well, have at it.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Kelida
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:37 AM

Honestly, I find it lamentable that scientists throughout all the ages of have found it necessary to invest so much time and money in two fields of research that completely contradict each other. One is the design, manufacture, distribution, and perfection of killing machines of all kinds, and if not machines, than chemicals, diseases, or something else designed to kill. The other field of research that is very popular is medicine, intended to help people survive their run-ins with killing machines. Killing anyone for any reason is wrong, except in the case of murderers and rapists who commit the worst two crimes of all--they should rot in hell as soon as possible. In any case, there is no reason why anyone should ever need to kill anyone in the first place.

On the other hand, America's Constitution guarantees at least some reasonably regulated right to bear arms. So to all those people who want unlimited right to arms, what exactly would a person use a cannon to hunt? Ducks? There are some weapons that normal people just don't need, although in this day and age people should have access to some protection.

Geez, I'm confusing myself. This topic kind of goes in circles with me because even though I am an ardent pacifist, I still believe in pretty much complete personal freedom, but also in the laws and restrictions that have created America. . . I think that may have just made it worse.

If anyone can decipher what exactly I meant by all that, feel free to tell me. . . I'm sure I had something worthwhile to say. . .

Peace--Bridget

"We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane." /br/--Kurt Vonnegut in Breakfast of Champions

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Biskit
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:41 AM

Dearest Woodward, I'm sorry, truly sorry that that worst of all offences happened to you BUT THAT ANIMAL you called a law abiding citizen is anything but! as I'm sure you well know. Please don't twist my words into something less than a lie. Truely, -Biskit

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Amos
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:48 AM

Thanks for the act of courage, woodward, in writing the short but powerful post above. I know two other decent, honest, intelligent women who had similar experiences.

If things in my town ever got so bad that I honestly believed I needed a gun to protect my family, I would be more than happy to register it, to wait five days for a background check, or any other reasonable control. I would hate to think my choice had been written away from me back when I didn't need it.

This assumes there are times when you need one, at least in some places. Current history seems to bear this assumption out; it is very clear to me that psychosis in the individual reaches a point where words no longer penetrate. Your Mister Sterling obviously was not available for discussion.

Maybe you could argue that without their guns, such men would not commit their crimes. Maybe this is so. Any criminal who is already involved in law breaking could get one even in a highly regulated environment, though. So perhaps the nominal banishment of them would be something like Prohibition -- a well-intended act which then made hordes of people act like criminals.

A

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Biskit
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:52 AM

Bridget, your thinking wasn't confused, your thoughts came through loud and clear. I myself am a confirmed pacifist!!! I don't believe that there is a need for assault rifles or other stratiegic weaponry to kill deer or ducks, or anything else you intend to feed your family, however these people that are always screaming for gun control have lost sight of the fact that most violent crimes are not commited by folks who procured their guns by legal means. If you take the guns away from law abiding citizens then only the criminal element will have guns, and the police are limited in what they can do by law.....it just would not work.-Biskit-

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Kelida
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 12:54 AM

Why can't everyone just get along? Seriously.

Peace--Bridget

P.S. My parents made me quit my last job before I got the one I have now. Guess why. I got robbed at gunpoint. They never found the guys. So what, though? The thing is, scary stuff happens sometimes, but it doesn't mean that no one should have guns because a few people abuse the privelege. If the government put half as much effort into finding, prosecuting, and incarcerating these people (and sticking to the original sentencing), a lot of crimes wouldn't happen. Look at the statistics sometime on how many criminals are repeat offenders. Lock 'em up and throw away the key.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: SeanM
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 01:06 AM

(rant)

For the most current example of what Prohibition does, look at the effects of the "Drug War" on the USA and the world. As a result of this travesty, we have one of the largest (if not THE largest) prison populations as a percentage of population, entire city areas devastated by drug money fueled gang warfare, corruption up to the highest levels of government (Iran/Contra, anyone?), a Congress that has enacted several severely un-Constitutional laws (which are finally being repealed by the Supreme Court), and a mindset that values punishment at all costs over rehabilitation.

And that's just in this country.

The US has exerted pressure several times to create "Drug War" machinery in other countries, and has strongarmed other governments into shutting down treatment programs (Britain's heroin maintenance program being a prime example).

Where does this tie in to the subject of guns and Americans in general? I think that the duality of a government yelling "Drugs are illegal" combined with a vast majority of said government's citizens blatantly ignoring said law creates the same sort of lawless atmosphere that bred the organized crime of the '30s. With that comes the lessening of the value of human life, and the attendant social problems. You see the results amongst a small but increasingly frightening minority - - kids with guns, bloody shootouts, drive bys, etc. Thankfully, they are exactly that - a small minority of the population.

The Drug War isn't the entire problem. But god knows that it's a big part of it (IMHO).

(/rant)

M

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Biskit
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 01:14 AM

Personally I'm in favor of public flogging for the more minor crimes, and quick execution, for the violent offenders. You know in the middle eastern countries if a thief is caught they'll cut off a finger on his right hand ,if he's caught a second time, they cut off his right hand, this is significant because they have community food bowls, lotsa people eat out of the same bowl they eat with there right hand, they wipe there hineys with there left hand, and no-one will let you eat out bof the bowl they are eating out of with the hand you wipe your hiney with, erego the thief,..if he was stupid enough to be a repeat offender starves to death. VIOLA'! there are very few thiefs, and even fewer repeat offenders. Now I know that someone is gonna disagree with this, but chances are the person doing the disagreeing hasn't ever came home from vacation and all there possesions, have been turned upside down and what they couldn't sell or trade for what ever their drug of choice was, they broke.Oh GAWD! I'm off on a tangent again are'nt I -Biskit-

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 01:16 AM

I had several guns in my house when an ex-boyfriend came by and raped and beat me. They didn't do me any good. In all the years I was raised owning guns and target practising, I never used one in self-defense. I feel no need to own a gun anymore, haven't in a long time and my kids have only very vague memories of targetshooting.

I am one of "these" people who are hollering for not just laws, but also for parents to be more responsible for their children in what they let them be exposed to through medial, and for keeping violent criminals in jail for at lest a good portion of their term. Read a facsinating book on the travesty of the drug war by a guy who was undercover and a high mucky-muck. It is a sham and has filled our prisons in a PR move to convince everyone it is working.

There...I got sucked in, too.

kat

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Biskit
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 01:26 AM

yeah kat this is an easy one to get sucked into emotions run high on both sides of the coin and there is no correct and right all arond answer. to many variables... Peace, Love an' Joan Baez- Biskit-

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 02:05 AM

Oh dear, a lot has happened here since my last visit. Woody and kat, I am crying for both of you and for all the people (female or not) in your position. Oh, this is going to be tough.
I would not hesitate to kill any scumbag who tried to rape me, IF I COULD. The qualifier is If I could.......he could take the gun away from me and use it on me, he could use a broken bottle, etc. But it wouldn't make me hate him any more/less........(crying here) Our daugher was digitally molested 6 yrs ago, and none of us have ever gotten over it, really, let alone her. But we HAVE to be civil to the bastard because he was never charged, let alone convicted, and Hubby is a cop........innocent until PROVEN guilty......
Oh crap, I don't know if I can do this or not. So many thoughts, so little brain cells.
In Iran now, it is legal for ANY man to kill ANY woman violating the Islamic law, and they don't have to use guns, they can use the swimming pools in the backyard. Just for not wearing a chador/veil.....
I guess it is time to come clean, We have 4 handguns in the house, and 5 hunting rifles, and 4 antique rifles. Hubby is a cop and carries one all day every day. Do I feel safe? NO, I do not.And all the guns are unloaded, and I do Not keep one by the bed.
Last year, only 2 mos after my mother died, our son was arrested for Aggravated Assault; he shot his own car while trying to defend himself from an assault by 5 other (ethinic) people. He is now a felon, they are not even minor offenders.
Oh golly I can't do this now, this is my next thing to work through. But I guess the bottom line is, that Americans are so BLOODY minded, that they won't let ANYONE tell them what to do, whether it is right or wrong....will try to make sense of this tomorrow. Sorry my friends, just too difficult right now.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 04:14 AM

Whoa!

Tony Martin used a gun to defend himself (I believe) and has now been convicted of murder.

The problem is one of the perceived freedom to coerce. It starts with the ability ot coerce through words and social pressure. THat creates the need to "coerce" right back. THen it moves on to economic pressure. You'll never work in this town again buddy. THen it moves on to physical violence - touch my wife and I'll kick you to pieces - stop telling me what to do or my frineds and I will kick you to pieces. THen it moves on to weapons.

If you are not right in what you are doing then it should not be acceptable to coerce. But our whole society is built on the opposite premise and justifies resonable force in self defence.

Like at Columbine High, the greater (yes I mean it - ask enyone who has been systematically bullied) crime - of destroying a person's self respect because they are not in the group with power - is so often one step back.

Power destroys - and creates the need for a countervailing power.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST,Simon in Hampshire, England
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 08:17 AM

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 08:33 AM

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of Americans to justify what in most other Western countries would be considered insanity. Just look at some of the inane excuses...we need to hunt....supermarkets sell meat... we need to conserve nature....by shooting at it...we need to control bullies in schools...by shooting them....we need to defend our property...by shooting people...we need to defend ourselves against the government.....by shooting officers of the law.....we need to teach kids to be responsible about guns...by teaching them to use lethal weapons thereby showing them that this is a toy...fun at the practising range.... Oh, give us a break and grow up,,,,This is not 1776 or 1850 or 1920...this is the 21st century, the age of the cowboy is over. There are few things about which I have such strong feeling but I have good reason to see this gun arguement as just pkain stupid. The only thing that is right about these arguements is when people say, Guns are ok in America because America is different...sadly, this is all too true. I think America is a great place..but this annal fascination with deadly toys is absurd.

Subject: RE: I'm scared of Americans and Guns
From: Mbo
Date: 20 Apr 00 - 08:38 AM

Wasn't it a David Bowie song that says "I'm afraid of Americans, I'm afraid of Americans, I'm afraid I can't help it..."

--Mbo