John Ball

Subject: John Ball
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 03:20 PM

When I looked up this song some months ago, I got both text and tune. Recently I checked (on the audio capabilities of my new iMac) and was told that permission to reprint the song had been denied. Is this a growing trend? Did the publisher suddenly tumble to the digital tradition's use of the song (a damn good one, by the way)? Just curious...

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 03:49 PM

As I understand it, the Canadian publisher of some of Sydney Carter's work denied DT access to them. I'll bet you can find the words with a forum search, tho, and hang on to those older downloaded versions of DT, as some stuff is still there, tho removed from newer versions.
The songs did vanish during the time the Harry Fox agency was threatening us, so possibly they represent the publisher. I'll bet Sydney Carter would be okay with our use of them.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: Songs Removed from the Digital Tradition
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 03:51 PM

For those who are curious, this (click) is the current entry in the Digital Tradition for this song by Sydney Carter. You'll note in the Official Rules of the Digital Tradition that we do our best to honor copyrights. However, it's a difficult balance. We don't want good songs to be killed by their own copyrights.
The company which holds the rights to Sydney Carter's songs requested that the songs be removed from the database, so the songs were removed. If somebody wants to request the lyrics to a particular song, probably somebody will be willing to share the lyrics.
-Joe Offer, a person with no official status who's been around here for a long time-

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 04:10 PM

Here is a link I found which has the words of Sydney Carter's song And the tune of course is "A Gift to be Simple/Simple Gifts" (more or less) which is in the DT.

And it's all the fault of Michael Flatley!

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 06:08 PM

This link to Lovely in the Dances has lyrics to 14 Sydney Carter songs, including John Ball.

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 00 - 08:46 PM

Now that is a much better link than the one I found, Jeri - it's a great record too.

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: Barbara
Date: 28 Jul 00 - 01:20 AM

I don't think I call the tune a variant of "Simple Gifts", MGoH. "Lord of the Dance" gets pretty close, as does "George Fox" but I think Sydney went a little further afield on this one. The tune is more stirring, martial even, and the chorus starts on the second note of the scale for the first three notes, which is not the structure of the B part of Simple Gifts. The verse could be a variant, I guess.
Can I post the tune on Alan's page without POing the publisher?
Blessings,
barbara

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 00 - 02:53 AM

I've been watching for "Lovely in the Dances," but haven't found it in the U.S. Does anybody know if it's available here?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: georgeward
Date: 29 Jul 00 - 02:53 AM

Joe,

I just got a copy from Andy's Front Hall this afternoon!Long distance for you, I believe, but the shop number is (518) 765 -4193 -George ::-.--O

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 00 - 09:54 PM

Your right Barbara, John Ball's noithing like Simple Gifts - thread drift sometimes creeps into the head and does terrible things. And John Ball is a song I'm fond of, so there's no excuse for the mixup.

So to make up for it, here is a link to

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 00 - 09:57 PM

Your right Barbara, John Ball's noithing like Simple Gifts - thread drift sometimes creeps into the head and does terrible things. And John Ball is a song I'm fond of, so there's no excuse for the mixup.

So to make up for it, here is a link to A Dream of John Ball by William Morris.

Subject: ADD: John Ball (Geoff Boxell)
From: GUEST,Geoff Boxell
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 09:44 PM

I have written my own lyrics for John Ball:

JOHN BALL
(Geoffrey Boxell)

When Adam delved and Eve span,
Who was then the gentleman?
Listen one and listen all …
To the words of good John Ball.

Read the Bible, those who can,
Know you now that we are but man.
The glitter of your world one day will pall:
So say the words of good John Ball.

In God's eyes equal are all –
Written in the letters of Apostle Paul.
Dread lords and ladies, you may fall:
So say the words of good John Ball.

Sons of Adam, daughters of Eve,
Those of low rank ne'er should grieve:
Jesus saved us all from the Fall –
So say the words of good John Ball.

You masters all, tread with care,
Hand us justice and be most fair,
For we may rise and take it all –
So say the words of good John Ball.

When Adam delved and Eve span,
Who was then the gentleman?
Listen one and listen all …
To the words of good John Ball!


For the tune contact me as I only have an MP3 of it

---

Click to play (joeweb)

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: growler
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 03:41 PM

I have been singing this for some years, I don't know if this is the original, but this is it

Who'll be the Lady and Who'll be the lord
When we are in the love for one another
Who'll be the lady and Who'll be the lord
In the light that's coming in the morning

Chorus
Sing John Ball and tell it to them all
Now is the day that is dawning
I'll crow like a cock
and carol like a lark
In the light that's coming in the morning

Eve be the lady and Adam be the lord
When you are in the love for one anotherAnd the light that's coming in the morning
Eve be the lady and Adam be the lord
In the light that's coming in the morning

Chorus

Labor and spin in the in the fellowship you're in
Labor and spin, in the love for one another
Labor and spin in the fellowship you're in
And the light that's coming in the morning

Chorus

Labor and stay in the fellowship I say
Labor and stay in the love for one another
Labor and stay in the fellowship I say
And the light that's coming in the morning

Chorus X 2

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 04:35 AM

I posted the MIDI for Geoff's song. See link above.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: John Ball
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 06:43 AM

I thought that you must be referring to a different set of words - the tune I have heard used is neither simple gifts nor lord of the dance, it is a good one though.