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BS: We Lost Another One
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Micca Date: 09 Aug 00 - 06:15 PM Litlle John, maybe the motto that is appropriate is , I think its McPherson( or Clan Chattan?)" Touch not the cat but with glove" |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: SINSULL Date: 09 Aug 00 - 06:08 PM Now you've gone and done it, Little John. And I'll bet you haven't a clue. It's the socks, John. Spaw can't resist short skirts and knee socks. so I am quite sure you will get your wish and your flame. And you have no one to blame but yourself. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: catspaw49 Date: 09 Aug 00 - 06:04 PM That's great Jacko......and Rick, I'm glad to see your great sense of humor kicked back in!!! try not ot pay too much attention to Little John though.......I just found out he's a cross-dresser. And Flamer John, Bert just gave you some great insights and advice and you just saw another piece. Little John has been around a pretty short while, but its my dumb and sometimes aggravating style to find some simpleass thing and pick on it. I'm not creating or even trying to create a clique and the joke is always out front for anyone to see. Quite a few around here poke a little fun at others and in my case, I know some people who are ANXIOUS for me to insult them........Not to be a part of a clique, but its at the point where if I don't have some smartass thing to say, everyone wonders why, like am I sick or something? A lot of them are far too stupid to be considered "inside jokes" anyway. People relate to each other on different terms in different situations based on what we perceive in the others personality. Do what Bert suggests......If you had posted that before, maybe you wouldn't have felt the need to play the flame game. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: jacko@nz Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:51 PM Gidday all I've hung around mudcat more off than on for some years and must have missed all of what you are talking about. Perhaps I only see the bits relevant to the music I am interested in. Those bits are why I'm here. I have, to my great delight, just discovered 'Hearme' and can't beleive my luck. I've already talked with some of you and I hope to become a friend to all of you Jacko |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: little john cameron Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:39 PM Ah feel awfy left oot anaw, hoo aboot ah we bit o flame ower mah wie?Ah grew up in the land o' flame.Whit aboot the fiery cross?? When ye can go aboot in a kilt wi' yer knobby knees stickin' oot an' yer "Skian Dubh" tucked intae yer socks ye dinnae hae tae worry aboot flamers. Apairt fae that they widnae last ower lang here in Newfoundland ah can tell ye. In the words o' the great Billy Connolly"Awa an' bile yer heids ye bucnch o bampots" LJC SEE WHIT HAPPENS WI THAT THEN ??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: DougR Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:23 PM Rick: I agree with Wesley. I hope you and the other more knowledgeable folks will continue to post interesting threads. I enjoy reading many of those you suggest you may no longer post and have learned a lot just from reading. I am not expert enough to participate in many of these posts but enjoy reading them. As to flamers, well everything has been said and said again. Ignoring them is the best advice posted yet, I believe, and I really do try to do that now. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:21 PM Rick, I do not believe that any form of flaming in itself destroys trust although I suppose I am suffiently thick skinned not to worry about reciving nasty comments as a result of a post here. I suspect where the trust has been undermined for some is the knowledge that some of these flames can only have been made by Mudcat regulars and I can quite understand why that will make some people feel ill at ease. Having said that, I do feel that there is a danger of becoming too paraniod about things and even though a few people did get hurt recently, I don't see that as reason to lose faith in the majority of people here. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Bert Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:09 PM Hi flamer John! You've brought up some points that I think need explaining. There is no Mudcat clique, any one is free to post whatever they choose. Just because some people post regularly and we get to know them, doesn't mean that there is a clique. Post a few times yourself and well get to know you too. As for the jokes. There are NO IN JOKES, every joke and every post that has ever been made (with very few exceptions) is still here and alive. Search for 'Possum' or 'Neil Young Center' or whatever the current reference is about and it's all there for you, as much as for anyone else. You'll find more that you ever needed to know. It's all yours to peruse at leisure, there is NO EXCLUSION. And if you don't want to do that, JUST ASK, someone will be delighted to tell you about tiples or wombats or whatever. In fact if you set 'age' to 3 years and hit refresh you'll get everything. Post here and you're one of us. But flame here and you're likely to get your balls chewed off;-) 'Cos most of us don't like being flamed. If you have something to say or discuss most of us will listen or reply politely. But this is not a moderated forum so there's one or two assholes who delight in stirring up trouble. Just ignore them. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Rick Fielding Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:55 PM "Flamer John", thanks for your post. Obviously you would NEVER warrant nasty things said about you just on the strength of that post. OF COURSE it can seem "cliquey". Didn't we have a couple of pretty civil discussions on that recently? "You don't get the jokes?" Me too! I miss a lot of the "Brit" references. I hardly get ANY of Little John's "dialect" (and he's a FRIEND of mine!). When I get talkin' about whether Riley Puckett used a fingerpick instead of a flatpick, I know full well that only 2 or 3 other people care one way or another, but for us it's FUN! Nothing more. By the way, in that particular thread, I got flamed big time for "not just having FUN with the music, instead of anylizing it to death"! Hey, that's no problem. Obviously the flamer doesn't know just how much fun I DO have playing AND talking about fingerpicks. That ain't the kind of flaming that destroys trust. Damn, I've been trying not to get involved in these kinds of threads....but...but...oh what the hell! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:41 PM Aw thanks Sinsull - I didn't know I had any groupies. I am glad you mentioned Hearme as IMO, the sessions there are a shining example of what we really do have here - people just dropping by to play or sing or even just listen coupled with a little bit of friendly banter and everyone is welcomed. I wish more people would pop in once in a while and join in and maybe get to know a few of the posters here a little better or just hear what they sound like. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: MMario Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:25 PM I'm sorry. I cannot find sympathy for someone who claims to feel excluded, yet will NOT give a consistent name or tagline or ANYTHING to hang an identity on other then abuse and anger, and who reacts to a self-percieved "exclusion" with vehement anger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: SINSULL Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:22 PM I was recently told by an anonymous guest that I have my head up my ass. Actually I was relieved. I thought Kendall's piles were "catchy". Kat, I would hate to believe that you are holding back out of fear of flamers. I don't always agree with your ideas and I hope you don't always agree with mine but I would rather hear disagreement from you than get a pat on the head. Jon, I can't say this often enough - I wandered into Mudcat out of boredom one day and stayed because you and Harpgirl on Hearme were sheer magic. I read your posts (even the technical ones) knowing I will always learn something. Consider me the senior citizen among your "groupies". In the past two days I have gotten personal messages from two different people questioning whether I was angry with them. The only sense I can make of it is the recent discussions/disagreements regarding flamers. I am not angry at anyone, not even the flamers. I hope that those who choose not to post will continue to read. And I hope the above GUSH will be read in context - When a talented contributor leaves, we all lose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Gervase Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:17 PM Hey, calm down! If John feels left out, welcome him in. The guy's honest enough to admit that he over-reacts to the perceived cliquey nature of this place, so hear him out. John, don't feel excluded. This place is so shambolic that no-one could possibly grasp all of the in-jokes, running gags and peevish feuds that litter its threads. And don't feel shy about contributing. There are enough ways to imply that someone's a wanker without flaming them. If there's anything you want to air or are looking for, just start a thread - no-one's going to kill you for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Little Neophyte Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:16 PM I am still around because I believe in this place. I must admit the crap does get to me at times but as long as I am here I will focus on the meaningful aspects the Cat has to offer. I treat the Mudcat as if I have invested in a long term committment. I will continue being a Mudcatter through the good times and the bad. When I can not find much joy around here, I busy myself with other things. That does not mean I leave, I just place my energies elsewhere until my mood passes. What concerns me is that people do have feelings. Although this is just a website, personal feelings do become invested and they do become hurt. That is part of life, but when it happens too often it can bend the balance too far for me. Although I love this place, I do have a breaking point. But while I am here I will continue to put my best efforts into creating interesting topics, read those threads that interest me, contribute where I can and joke around when I feel it is most inappropriate. If I am going to be involved in the Mudcat, then 'by gosh', I am going to be involved as best I can. Otherwise what is the point. Bonnie
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Lepus Rex Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:07 PM Aw, poor flamer; doesn't have any friends, doesn't understand... "I don't fel like I'm part of the group, *sniffle*" Who cares? Piss off then. Maybe you should examine WHY you feel a need to belong to a herd. Or just sit there and watch with your mouth shut like the impotent sheep that you are. Or better yet, why not get together with those paedophiles you sympathize so deeply with and pull the pins out of a couple hand-grenades? ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: GUEST Date: 09 Aug 00 - 04:01 PM 'flamer' you make no sense at all - please try harder |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: GUEST,A flamer Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:54 PM Why I flame. I'd be grateful for an audience, before judgement Here in the UK, there's recently been a consistent campaign to 'name and shame' paedophiles. This has inevitably resulted in vigilante attacks on innocent people. This is WRONG To some people, correctly or not, there is a 'mudcat clique' and some of us feel left out. We don't understand the jokes, we don't feel 'a part' of it. Out of anger we occasionally write rubbish. We don't mean hurt, but we feel left out, we don't get the jokes, we feel alone. When, as some contributors do, we are called the worst things that it is possible to be called, what do think our reaction is? We're not proud, but a bit of understanding would be appreciated... John (on the assumption that giving a name is important) |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Gervase Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:38 PM Rick, I for one would miss your posts on other stuff and the contributions to you to all kinds of threads. Jed's not alone in making the 'Cat a daily visit, and I know there are legions of people browsing who never post but who find this place a useful and entertaining resource because of its wonderfully eclectic nature. I suppose the only answer is for us all to get a little thicker-skinned and resolve carry on posting just what the heck we like in the tradition of the Mudcat. Remember "sticks and stones..."; and a lot of the trolling and flaming is as juvenile as that. But if anyone does get crapped on, I'd like to think that there are a few here who would respond supportively to a PM if the crappee (the person who gets it from the crapper, as it were) wanted to let off steam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jed at Work Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:18 PM I do see a change in the tone of some of the messaging from people here at the Mudcat, as Rick and Kat have just said ... even if we can rise above the sh*t and move away from the idiot posts, you still find yourself being a bit more guarded about what you respond to, and how. That is unfortunate. I like to think we could all be comfortable with responding more naturally. I am surprised sometimes, by thoughts/subjects that are expressed here in threads that I think would be fascinating - and then they die a quick death! But, that's just the way it goes, I guess. I remember one such thread several months back about Shenendoah. There was some good feedback - but very little, and the thread disappeared quickly - now, I see it brought back to life and it has lasted longer in this iteration then it did originally! Rick you are a well known and well respected Mudcatter, and I believe that puts you in the sights of the hate mongers, sometimes. Kat you too are a bit of a high profile Mudcatter, with your well spoken perspectives, your strong opinions and your humor. Again, you seem to have attracted more then your share of troll attacks. Spaw has taken a couple of whacks too, as have, I presume others. I don't read all the threads, so I don't always catch the stuff. The good news though is, most Mudcatters recognize immediately the sh*t as sh*t - and the good threads still out number the bad. I have gone weeks when I have very little to say, and weeks when I post frequently. But even in the quiet weeks, I visit the site almost daily. It's nearly always worth my time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: GUEST,ttcm Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:15 PM If Jenny hadn't been so aggresively small minded and unpleasant, she wouldn't have ever caused such abuse. In a place like this, those who are 'abused' should wonder why that is.
The person formerly known as ttcm states that he had nothing to do with this post, and has not posted any "flame" messages since he posted his public confession several weeks ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:03 PM No kat, I think you are being too negative and I do not believe that the trust is gone or at least it hasn't for me. I think that as with any aspect of life, one needs to be careful over who you trust but I can think of a large number of people here that I do trust and some that I have trusted with what are personal things about myself and I will continue to do so. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: little john cameron Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:02 PM "Nemo me impune lacessit" Motto o' the Black Watch. LJC |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: katlaughing Date: 09 Aug 00 - 02:50 PM A respite from it all is a good idea. If we all leave, only the flamers and tolls will remain, so, for better or worse, I hope most of us decide to stick around, even in a limited capacity. I am feeling a lot like Rick, these days. The trust is gone and there are a lot of things i just don't post anymore because it just doesn't seem worth it, including links to important musical things I've heard elsewhere that thought Mudcatters would enjoy. A person gets tired of being a target. Sure does make me sad about the Mudcat, though. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Mbo Date: 09 Aug 00 - 02:14 PM I perfectly understand why this person would want to leave. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Wesley S Date: 09 Aug 00 - 02:02 PM Rick - I hope you will continue to add psts about old time country and acoustic blues. Just because some of us { myself included } don't add to the posts doesn't mean that we aren't getting something of value from them. We just may not be knowledgeable enough to add to them. About "flamers". Many years ago on vacation in San Francisco a man walked up to me on the street and screamed at me - " I hate your shoes". He walked on verbally assaulting everyone he passed. I gave him a wide berth - ignored him and moved on. I wish we could do the same thing to flaming posters. After all - these are just words on a computer screen. To me they're not "real". Their words only have an effect when we give them value and importance. They are sad and unfortunate people. We don't have to take on their negativity. Like a two year old having a tantrum - any attention to them is what they desire. If we ignore them they will eventally move on. Or perhaps assume a name and join the mudcat as members and contribute something of value. Until then I plan to ignore them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Rick Fielding Date: 09 Aug 00 - 12:50 PM Sorry to see another go. Apparently they decided to leave in a dignified manner rather than making constant public threats which I find manipulative (whether intentional or not) and distracting. I wonder how many of us have changed the "nature" of our posts? I certainly have. When I was first told about this place by Sandy Paton, (like him) I rejoiced. A place to talk folk music with knowledgable people, share humour, even discuss issues of the day with some verrry articulate folks. The increasing popularity of Mudcat naturally irked some folks but never bothered me too much. I just ignored the silliest parts and maintained my "music PLUS chat" position. Occasionally I reacted when it seemed that only three or four people here were interested in some posts that I found fascinating (Old-time country, and acoustic blues stuff) but generally, I adapted, and like a broken record kept maintaining "it's still the best place on the net". Where I've had a lot of trouble is the seemingly "pointless flames" that don't appear to even be an angry reaction to a point that someone else has made. You read it, and wonder why someone's on your case...and then you start wondering "who" it is, and how you managed to offend them. Nine out of ten times, if that person confronted you with a problem, the two of you could have worked it out. With a "guerilla" flame, you just can't resolve it, and gradually it erodes your trust in the whole forum. I guess we all have a "style" so to speak, and mine is probably a combination of technical instrumental tips, some "road stories" from a long time working folk musician, and some silly Python-style humour. Oh, and occasional "sucky things" about the wonderful people I've met and picked with, through Mudcat. A few weeks ago I used some of that humour in a post and suddenly an anonymous flamer calling themselves "Lyndon Larouche" started two threads using one of my jokes to imply that I was insulting two of the best people I've met here, Mick and Kendall. Sure those guys are smart enough to know when they're being "had", but for two days I had to look at those threads, and wonder what I'd done (if anything) to personally anger the flamer. The fact that I got two anonymous e-mails telling me "who dun it" in great detail (a person I'd never met, and only spoken to once when they called my radio show) sure didn't make the mistrust go away. So, I guess if I stick to "tech" threads, and leave out most of the anecdotal/humour/"geewizz, aren't we great" stuff, it's worth sticking around.(actually I just did post about meeting two more catters in the flesh, but felt the need to bury it in an unrelated thread) I understand though, why someone would leave. I still miss Dale Rose, he always had something knowledgable to add to those "nurdy" threads that I love. Rick Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Aug 00 - 12:06 PM Sorcha, I am sorry that someone has found it necessary to leave because of flamers and trollers but one needs to be realistic. These creatures exist in every public forum on the internet and nothing is going to change that. I believe that compared to other forums that I visit, Mudcat actually gets away very lightly on this sort of behaviour and that far too much time is wasted here in discussions over flamers, etc. Perhaps one of the problems with Mudcat is that overall, it is so friendly and genuine friendships can be made that people start to view this place as a shelter, free from all the unpleasantness and are unduely upset by the occasional bit of nastiness that eneviatibly occurs. If one can accept that flamers and trollers will exist, we are then faced with how to deal with them and although I am not very good at it, there is only one anwswer and that is to ignore them completely. These people need to see the results of their mischief and starved of that, they generally give up and go elsewhere or try to bait someone else, they can not win if they are not responded to. Just think, somebod could be rubbing their hands with glee right now, seeing that their actions have sparked of yet another discussion about them. Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Art Thieme Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:50 AM I've been here less lately. There is just less lately that I want/need to respond to. The more things change, the more they get different. That's as it has been and as it will ever be---as it should be. And that's O.K. It's the old pleasure principle though---It's natural to be drawn to places where our input is felt to be wanted/needed/important/appreciated/accepted/valued. Where it is attacked with vile derision and in-your-face raucus hockey-game screaming and yelling ugliness like at a non-scripted political convention----well, I just naturally (as in human nature) choose to be into a good book. There's no less appreciation of those I admire and like and even love. I'd just rather swim in a pool of calmer watter than dive into a churning cesspool. Swimming in dung is not easy. And if you drown there... you will be in turd (enterred) there. ;-) Love, Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Ritchie Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:40 AM I can't remember off hand how long I've been around, but every now and then I see a familiar name and you know.. I like it. It's like seeing someone that I have n't seen since standard 4. I will return to this thread when I've more time. Some good reading here ! regards Ritchie (the second toughest in the infants) |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Mrrzy Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:32 AM ...the only thing I have any control over is my own reaction, says one of the above posters. That is true of behavior, but not of emotions. It would be great if it were true for emotions. But one of the things humans have very POOR control over is their emotional reaction to perceived (fill in the blank with whatever bothers you most). That is, I can't keep a flamer from making me mad - but I can stop myself from posting WHILE mad, or posting at all, if I think it would be "stooping to their level" - and then I get the added glow of feeling just virtuous as all get-out! I rose above it, whoo woo! And THAT is the real reason for not giving in to the attention-seekers (martyrs or trolls) - because it feels so good to ignore them! Having re-read this, I feel bound to hedge that not everyone who leaves in a huff (or out of one) is necessarily a martyr. At least one member that I know of has been driven away by real, personal, threats and worse. To stay would have been martyrdom in that case, and who needs that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jed at Work Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:22 AM Right on, Jeri. Well said!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: dwditty Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:17 AM Jeri, thank you. I tried to post a similar response a while ago, but after it was all typed, I couldn't get it into the forum (503 error). Fate is a wondeful thing, because you said it much better that I did. Please add me to your list of friends. dw |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: CarolC Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:03 AM For an excellent example of very deft handling of people who post for the purpose of causing problems, see the Thought for the day August 8, thread. Sorcha handled it beautifully, and everyone else followed suit. As a result, the intruder never returned to that thread. Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: catspaw49 Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:01 AM Jeri, you are always wise and intuitive and often hit the nail more squarely on the head than anyone else around here. I've never been big on all the assorted "vows" that have come up at times, but yours is worth taking. I tried to say a similar thing the other day in Max's "Thought Thread" but you have put it far better. As to our member......I too got a PM and I hope it is just some time away and I said so in my reply. There are others who have written me in a similar fashion and some have returned, others have not...but they might. I'll sign up with you Jeri. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Jeri Date: 09 Aug 00 - 10:46 AM I apologize for the length of this in advance. This "taking a break" is not a bad thing. I have done it, and I know others have. Sometimes when I feel myself taking things a bit too seriously, when things said on the forum have affected me way out of proportion to what they should, I back up a bit. Sometimes I only read music threads for a while. When I've done this, I realize it's not the state of Mudcat that's the problem, but my reaction to it. Even if it begins with nastiness here, the only thing I have any control over is my own reaction. I wouldn't want to leave here, because I'd feel like I'd be letting the trolls and flamers become more important than the friends I've made here. I wouldn't want to concede the battle. This is just me though. Perhaps for others, the bad stuff really is stronger than the good stuff, or for whatever reason, they can't ignore the creeps. I rarely have a problem with the creeps anyway - it's the friends who get sucked into replying to the creeps, lash out and jump on other friends that really bothers me. This has been far more difficult for me to deal with than compulsive insulters who can't help themselves. If people (including myself) ignored those sad individuals, I doubt their postings would have any affect on the tone of the forum or my feelings about it. I've slowly come to the conclusion that even if those of us who've been around here for a while learn to ignore the flames/trolls, there will always be new people who fall for them. For my own peace of mind, I have to learn to ignore them as well. I'm sorry this person has come to this point, but believe me, at least to some extent, I can sympathise. I hope when they've had some time to sort things out, they'll come back. If they decide the tone here is more than they can bear, I wish them peace. I will respect their decision. I hope they remember they have friends here, and most of us would rather talk about good things than bad. I hope those of us who remain can do the same. Here's my own personal Mudcat vow, for what it's worth: I promise to see all people here, unless they demonstrate other intentions, as friends or potential friends. I will remember that when I type replies. I promise to ignore those who wish to make enemies, because that's not why I'm here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: JedMarum Date: 09 Aug 00 - 08:57 AM Some people need to cause others pain and aggravation - others think frequent bickering is normal. The Internet puts us into familial intimacy with those we would not choose, necessarily - therefore strange bedfellows. The most offensive of these flamers and trolls exibit pathological traits that would keep them at a distance from most of us in the 3D world - but here they are free to wander into out parlor and converse as freely as our invited guests. I am sorry your friend is leaving. There is so much good stuff that goes on around here, but I understand that the pathos that exists here in varying levels may be more then she is willing to stand. Please give her my best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Aug 00 - 08:46 AM Good comments from Joe Offer. I agree that the best treatment for the really nasty is to ignore them. I avoid really nasty people. Moderately nasty people I am pleasant to...up to a point...sometimes they soften their attitude. Quincy, a friend of mine also has a useful expression..."I make it a point never to get in a pissing match with a skunk." And if I may quote Bob Dylan...(as I usually do)... "Everything passes, everything changes, just do what you think you should do. And someday, maybe, who knows, baby, I'll come and be crying to you." |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Dulci46 Date: 09 Aug 00 - 08:24 AM I agree with Callie. Hearme is great and very inspiring, one of the most rewarding parts of mudcats. I to come here for that. There is much more good on mudcats than bad, and I personally don't understand why anyone would respond to any of the bad things. Simple! Quit responding and soon there won't be any bad! Judy |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Callie Date: 09 Aug 00 - 07:52 AM Hi folks For all those disillusioned because of a few selfish characters: come to HearMe sometime. It still continues to inspire me and pretty much the only thing I come to Mudcat for now. Hope to hear you there Callie |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Quincy Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:43 AM Sorcha, I agree with you totally......Life is too short and can be difficult enough for some people without it being made worse whilst engaging in what should be..and usually is a "pleasure" I've only been a member for a short while and I must admit that I was a little concerned about people going out of their way to upset others. It's an awful shame when members are leaving because they worry that whatever they write is going to have a personal attack fired at it. Reading it on our computers in the sanctuary of our own homes makes it all the more personal. I think Joe's advice to "leave them alone" is the best available. They should be ignored and they will soon get bored. An expression I heard recently says "Never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it!" Here's to a peaceful, friendly future, best wishes, Yvonne
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Brakn Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:36 AM Joe you're right to be "concerned about those who quietly slip away, or those who never even start to participate because of the nastiness". I know that I visit this site a lot less than I used to. That is probably down to content. People shouldn't go because of others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Bugsy Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:27 AM Thanks for that Joe, Very well put. Cheers bugsy |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: GMT Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:27 AM As an aging hippy type I still believe in love, peace, forgiveness and all that sort of thing. BUT it also takes strength to survive in a community if that community does not provide support or at least understanding to individuals. I do not have any blood brothers and sisters (as my SOH keeps pointing out) so I don,t understand how people can hate each other but love them at the same time. I've had to settle for not hating. I'm newish hear and I hope I don't lose a potential friend before I have a chjance to know them. I have already seen Mudcat provide support on an individual basis to many here and it is a pleasure such caring. As WyoWoman said ignore the iritating litlle ****** and stick with the people, who admitedly may not agree with you, who are bright enough to have adult friendships. Thanks for your time. Gary |
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Subject: Dealing with Flamers and Trolls From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Aug 00 - 03:12 AM Here are some definitions from Netlingo.com:
troll v.,n. 1. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." 3. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners. I have to say that I have become a bit cynical about people who make a big show of leaving the Mudcat because of flamers - many of these people might warrant the title of "trolls." The people who attract flamers are often quite obnoxious themselves, especially those who leave with a long farewell message that usually generates a hundred "don't go" responses or more. I am concerned about those who quietly slip away, or those who never even start to participate because of the nastiness. Those who make a show of making martyrs of themselves are every bit as bad as the flamers, I think. They prey on the sympathy of good people. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them. There is another problem that occasionally arises here - people who are threatening in their behavior. It is of utmost importance that you do not try to deal with these people. If you ignore them totally and inform Max or me or Pene about them quietly with a personal message, we can quietly make them disappear (to an extent). PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE YOURSELVES. If people seem dangerous, LEAVE THEM ALONE. Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: WyoWoman Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:42 AM It isn't necessary to leave, unless you have reasons in your personal life that dictate this necessity (and sometimes you simply do). Just don't play with people who won't play nice. Ostracize they little butts. And keep playing with the fun playmates. ww |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: BigDaddy Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:41 AM Please define "trolls" and "flamers" for a new member. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We Lost Another One From: Clinton Hammond2 Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:33 AM People come and people go.. All things ebb and flow... I know the member of whom you speak, and said will be missed indeed... |
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Subject: BS: We Lost Another One From: Sorcha Date: 09 Aug 00 - 12:22 AM I have recieved a PM from a person who has been a valued member. This person is leaving/taking a break from Mudcat because of all the bitterness in the posts lately and (s)he is SERIOUS. This person has all the bitterness in personal life that can be handled, and can no longer emotionally afford to participate in the 'Cat because of the acrimony here.
Is this what it is coming to? Is this what we want for the MudCat? I have only been here since January 2000, but this is not what I want for the Cat.
Said person DID NOT ask me to post this, and will no doubt be upset/embarassed to see this (person may be lurking, and sending PM's) but I, for one, have HAD IT with the personal attacks/flaming/bitterness expressed lately in the posts.
I agree that Max,Joe,Pene, etc. are NOT the Dad in the front seat. They should not be having to deal with this because it should not be happening.
I have no problem at all with GUESTS, just with Trolls and Flamers. I admit I am NOT perfect, and it is difficult to be Good and IGNORE when I should, but do we really want to drive away the folk who could benefit from this site?
Apologies to ALL the GOOD people here who don't take the Bottom Feeders up on their garbage. You all (y'all) know who you are, and I am only occasionally among you and I know it.
I know I will probably take some flak for this thread, but that is OK. I am trying very hard to be a REAL grown-up like some others of us. Let's try to get back to that Community Feeling, even if the community has resident Curmudgeons. I don't mind those at all. Actually, I welcome the curs, they add to the variety and spice.
So, get yourself down to your local Animal Shelter, and adopt a Local Curmudgeon. rant off, sorry, but I am dis-heartened. |