BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: ceitagh
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 07:37 PM

Doug,

yes, do pick up a Terry Pratchett novel, I highly recommend it. Great reading, absolutely hilarious. I don't expect it to change your political views tho, it hasn't mine (B/C, if i were american, which i'm not, ;-))

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Susan from California
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 08:18 PM

Gore & Lieberman--M But I'm a yellow dog Democrat :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:06 PM

Ceitagh: I'll do that. Can you recommend any particular one (novel)?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: RWilhelm
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:25 PM

I was going to say none-of-the-above but I agree with Lepus Rex. Tipper and all her sorority sisters must be stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:53 PM

Tipper Gore is a name that gives me the shivers. Not that I'm referring to the lady herself (don't know much about her), just the name...

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: tar_heel
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:57 PM

god,what a bunch of liberals in here!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: tar_heel
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:58 PM

bush!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 11:14 PM

Chuck - when you go to a steak house, ya probably don't want to order the salmon. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: WyoWoman
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 01:38 AM

Gore/Lieberman, S

(Carol, Luther and LEJ, stop eating with your fingers. Use your entrenching tool...)

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 06:49 PM

Those of you moaning about a two-year campaign should remember tht Tony Blair made re-election his top priority from day 1 of a five-year stint.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 07:22 PM

"It seems every time we elect a Republican, we find an excuse to make war on civilians in "third world" countries (e.g. Nicaragua, El Salvador) or befriend dictators like the Shah of Iran, Marcos in the Phillipines, etc" -

Well, don't go forgetting that little business in Vietnam. A Democrat affair as I recall, till Nixon took over and extended it until it ran out of steam.

How come with 200 million or whatever it is people to choose from it ends up with a run-off between Bush and Gore? And only a tiny fraction of Americans will vote for either of them. And one of them will end up effectively being President of the planet, and we all have to put up with the result.

Why can't you have a straight fight between Hunter Thompson and Michael Moore?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 07:32 PM

We are greatly outnumbered, Chuck, no doubt about that. So that makes us a minority, right? All good folks though, just the same.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: celticblues5
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 07:40 PM

Much as I dislike the idea of little Susie Creamcheese Tipper being first lady, I'll go with G/L. The Republicans only have one issue I agree with (which, you'll be thankful, I'm NOT going to mention, not wanting to open a huge and very unmusical can o'worms). Every election it seems like one has to choose the lesser of the two evils, as they say.
Saw Hadassah L being interviewed the other day, and she was at once poised and warm, seemed very sincere & open. Bradley & Lieberman would have made an interesting ticket!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 08:33 PM

When Bill Clinton was elected, I thought, "we're back from the shadows again". When I listen to Al Gore, I think, this is a man who understands about vegetables being green and about peeing in streams (and that's important), and I think, I want this man for president.

Respectfully,

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 08:49 PM

Peeing in streams? He sounds like a slob... Get him housebroken, and I might consider it. (Yeah, right!) :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 09:03 PM

Now there's a ticket,CarolC! Arty Choke and the Whisperin' Stranger!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: death by whisky
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 10:53 PM

I can't ignore Clintons part in N.I's peace process. Plus,he gave us pothole free roads from Listowel to Ballybunion.....!!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 10:59 PM

You're right, Doug R, all good folks. Thanks for being positive about the avalanche of liberals here(of which I might be considered one...although I'm a bit more radical than most "liberals", seeing I don't even believe in political parties of any stripe whatsoever).

I generally like the Democrats a little better than the Republicans, but wouldn't vote for either one of them.

Curiously enough, the Democrats seem to get involved in just as many foreign wars and interventions as the Republicans, contrary to what someone said earlier. Bush attacked Iraq (After assuring them through the American ambassador in Baghdad that the USA had no concerns about a forthcoming Iraqui attack on Kuwait!!! Saddam believed him...what a sucker!). Then there was the totally phony propaganda story about Iraqui soldiers turning off babies' incubators in the Kuwaiti hospital...even Amnesty International was fooled by that one...what a public relations coup! What a crock.

Then Clinton bombed the aforementioned pharmaceutical factory in Africa, some other small places in Asia, and finally launched the Kosovo intervention. I'm not going to argue the pros and cons of Kosovo here (God help us!), but it looks to me like there's precious little difference in warmaking tendencies between the Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats TALK more peaceably, but in practice they are virtually indistinguishable from the GOP. No surprise to me. It's someone else you don't hear about (and don't get to vote for) who calls the shots on all of these decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DonMeixner
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:10 AM

Mallard Filmore, he'll do well in DC. He understands the importance of getting a bill passed. He is a graduate of Drake university.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:52 AM

If Mallard Filmore of Drake wins...duck!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: ceitagh
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:19 AM

Doug- try Guards Guards. I think you'd like Captain Vimes. I *know* you'd like the Patrician. :-D

Oh, just a thot I'd like to throw out there....anyone know where one can find a party for socially conservative socialists? I did a quiz once that showed I'd be really left wing if i weren't so determined about personal responsibilities and the sacredness of life. I guess I even out to moderate something, but i'm not sure what.

Ceit

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: GUEST,bob s.
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 03:01 PM

Did you know that Bill Clinton is considering changing the Democratic seal from a donkey to a condom, because it represents inflation, halts production, and gives you a false sense of security while you are being screwed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:25 PM

Well, although a distinct minority, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only member of the vast right-wing consiracy out here in folkietune town! As paridoxical as it must seem, I love the traditional old tunes commonly associated with "folk" - although the "protest songs" of the '60s never did much for me - and listen to "Rush" too! Speaking of the "protest" movement, I think that my teenage enfatuation with Joan Baez was eventually broken when all she would open her mouth for (at least what got recorded and I heard) was to wail, whine, and b!+$# about how awful things were. Now granted, things were a little seamy back then, but Mommas still loved babies, some good dogs were to be found, God was still in Heaven, and as I recall there remained in a few sheltered corners some things worthy of celebration... despite the bum politicians (both R and D). Most Folkies seem to have pretty much gotten over it in the past 30 or 40 years, but some, alas, just can't seem to let it go. Personally, I resonate with the healthy dose of skepticizim I sense here, although It's a challange not to let it get me down. Having surveyed the aforementioned Libertarian Party, I find about 85% of their principals essentially harmonic, 10% not all votes in yet (or, as my Quaker Freinds might say, "Awaiting furthur Light") and the remaining 5% (including the dreaded "choice" issue) engendering some discomfort. I think if they ever come up with a viable Candidate, I would have to seriously consider getting behind them. I understand that they are starting to make some inroads in local and State offices, so stay tuned. I don't think that a party more dedicated to restoring a Constitutional Democracy can be had at any price.. although it's going to be a hard sell to folks accustomed to rolling on the dole or being "taken care of" by Great White Father in Washington. As to the choices at hand: I was for Allan KEYES, despite his sadly thin political resume. Since his political demise (I'm hoping that there might be a Cabinet position for him) I'm rooting for the "W". The spectre of 4 more years of the Clinton Machine (which, dear hearts, is what we may expect from an "ALGORE" Administration despite some theatrical "distancing" of late) frankly chills me to the bone. After the complete gutting of any moral authority America might have had left abroad, our national defense has been squandered, abused, and sold (primarily to the Communist Chinese Government, who brought us the Tienimen Square Massacre). Any political credibility we might have had has gone down the flush; our enemies have been capitulated to and our allies have been routinely betrayed. It seems that people of the global community have little but contempt for us, and frankly, I can't blame them. Our lofty status the (or even "a") "Superpower" is deteriorating rapidly as our "leaders" seem hell-bent on reducing America to 3rd-world squalor. "W" may not be perfect, but I do beleive that he has at least a modicum of integrity. And that, as I have learned from years of working with the "Mentally Retarded", can make up for a heck of a lot of cunning and charisma! I'm thinking of a Political "rallying" song for "W', much like "Lincloln and Liberty" was in 1860. You're gonna love it... or then again, maybe ye wont, eh? But regardless, I think that "Mudcatters" are a crowd with sufficient class to enjoy one another's company and music.. learning from and growing by one another - while setting some of our other diverse passions aside for a season. Now THAT, I submit to you, is something to celebrate!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:20 PM

Hmmmm....okay, Uncle Jaque...interesting comments. Next time, though, break it up into a number of paragraphs (hit "enter" twice between each)...it makes it easier to read. Somebody told me about that a while back, and they were right.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:02 PM

Uncle Jaque, interesting points. I, too, think the Libertarians make a pretty good case but they have a long way to go. There is a much sharper difference between the Libertarians and the Democrats than there is between Republicans and Democrats, I think.

I love folk music too, but the protest songs didn't do much for me either. Perhaps because I was older than the kids marching in the streets singing protest songs.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:14 PM

MY God! Not one Mudcatter for Pat Buchannan! Or that other looney from the Natural Law Party (the folks who brought you Yogic Bouncing.

Hey, this a consensus we can build on!

'Course since I'm Canadian, I'm not going to mess up the accuracy of this poll with a vote that just won't count.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 08:19 PM

Best suggestion I saw was Lox's that you could only get elected if you got more than 50% of the vote. Though I'd advise that you made it at least 50% of the people entitled to vote. Some countries have that kind of rule.

Maybe as a compromise they could make it that the fella elected has his or her salary and pension tied to the proportion of the total electorate that votes for her or him. Except that I suppose the salary and pension aren't a very important part of the financial rewards of the job. Who was the last President (etc etc) who left office poorer than when they came in?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:17 AM

Hey, don't be so quick to judge the Natural Law Party. They are seemingly quite unusual...until you actually meet some of them, and discuss a few things in depth. I have met them, and they are people of WAY above average intelligence and perception, with extraordinarily high ideals. There are some absolutely brilliant people in the Natural Law Party.

I voted for them in the last 2 elections, on the basis of my direct acquaintance with their local candidate here, and a number of their other members.

I can't say enough good about them. The "yogic flying" thing is real, but they should not have publicized it, because it's simply too offbeat and it makes people think they are weird. As you indicated, it's a sort of bouncing, actually, that occurs in deep meditation, while sitting in the lotus position. You have to go quite deep before it happens, but it is real. It has to do with altering the base frequency of your whole body system, which is vibratory...as is everything else in this reality.

More extraordinary things than that can be done, and have been. Like firewalking, for instance.

Needless to say, I knew they didn't have a dog's chance in Hades of being elected, but I respected them, so I voted for them. I vote by my conscience.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:18 AM

So far,based on the results of this scientific poll of primarily middle-aged,sandal-clad ex-members of the SDS with a strong tendency to sit around strumming their twelve strings rather than holding down a steady job,who also prefer spending on-line time at the Mudcat Cafe rather than making $8 stock trades at priceline.com, we can confidently declare Gore/Liebermann the clear leaders!

Notice:poll carries an error margin of +/- 99%

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 01:04 AM

I think that's a safe assumption, Lonesome EJ. DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 01:21 AM

Lonesome EJ, who gave you my dossier?

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 02:33 AM

I'm from Texas and I say: Dubya = no way!

Sure, Nader would be good, but don't you fear a Republican being elected president, more? The Supreme Court is awfully old. Please vote your conscience, but please vote!

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 11:39 AM

Lonesome, how did you know I was wearing sandals, you old scoundrel?!!! Ha Ha!

I hold down a steady job. I own a small export company that manufactures steering wheels and sells them mostly to the USA and Australia. Thank God for that...I do not relish the thought of having to make my whole living from playing music. As it is now, I just play enough of it to thoroughly enjoy myself, and when I get paid it's like a Christmas bonus.

Yes, I would rather be chatting on Mudcat, or strumming my 6 string...and I do.

SDS ain't quite radical enough for me, Lonesome. I consider both the right and the left to have some good ideas, and yet to be seriously out of touch in that they waste their energy fighting each other, instead of combining their good ideas. After all, they both sincerely want a better world. It isn't a question of right or left any longer.

It's as pointless as having a war between the sexes.

I declare peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:25 PM

Right,Hawk.Now if we can just get a Presidential ticket that features The Two Jesses....Jackson and Helms.

LEJ:>}

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 01:49 PM

Guest J.B., what's you're being from Texas got to do with it? You mean if you were from Oklahoma you'd be for Bush? Or maybe you're implying that you are the only Texian that won't vote for Bush?

I'm FROM Texas, and I'm going to vote for Bush, so we will just cancel each other's vote out, I guess.

:>) DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 04:18 PM

Ummm...I don't know much about Jesse Helms...can someone enlighten me on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 07:35 PM

Is it a bird?..is it a plane?..no it's SuperGore.

I've found it surprising that noone seems to have commented on the fact that the Gore looks not at all unlike Superman, as incarnated by Christopher Reeve.

That's not intended to have any political significance, but then this sounds like an election that seem to be primarily about politics.

However that seems to be the shape of elections these days in a lot of countries. Both sides seem to have pretty well the same politics, and the argument is about which is more to be trusted, and which gives you the worse nightmares. (And I think it's safe that for most people in Europe anyway, Bush getting elected is a pretty scary nightmare. But I suppose that for the people who'll vote for him, that's just another good reason to vote for him.)

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 07:44 PM

Little Hawk: a little leg-pulling there, I suspect. Jesse Helms is a very conservative republican senator in the U. S. Senate, and a thorn in the foot of liberals.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 07:53 PM

I left a "doesn't" out of the second paragraph - should read "That's not intended to have any political significance, but then this sounds like an election that doesn't seem to be primarily about politics." Makes a bit more sense now.

I kind of thought Jesse Helms was that nutty wrestler that got elected up in Minnesota to embarrass Garrison Keiller.

But isn't being called Jesse a disadvantage to a candidate in America? Or is it like "A Boy Named Sue", and it just serves to toughen them up?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: GUEST,Matewan
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 08:24 PM

Jessee Helms? You mean Senator Pigshit? The Turd that Walks like a Man? No, he's not a "very conservative senator"; he's a slimy, racist sonofabitch owned lock, stock and barrel by the tobacco companies and the factory hog-farming corporations, and an embarrassment to the human race. I'm suprised the Church of the Creator hasn't endorsed him- or maybe it has.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Biskit
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 08:38 PM

I really liked McCain, I believe he would've been a good leader.With the choices that remain,.....it's really a toss up between Fred Flintstone Or Snoopy,Does anybody know if Pat Paulson is running this year??? Peace -Biskit-

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 12:41 AM

Guest, Matewan: Other than that, do you have any strong feelings about Jesse Helms?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 01:17 AM

McGrath, that's Jesse Ventura we elected, heh. Much more entertaining than the guys he ran against. Well, Fancy Ray McCloney's pretty entertaining, in a way, but he came in last...

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 03:00 AM

Well, I was trying not to weigh in on this due to my connection to the campaign of Al Gore. But I must respond to my dear friend, Northfolk/Al Cholger.

Al, you know that my sympathies lie on the far left end of the spectrum. But after some 31 years of fighting in wars, being in strikes, working with young men and women involved in gangs, community activism, union organizing and political activism, I have become very sensitive to the cost of my actions. It is like, when you know a strike is inevitable and you sit in your chair and worry for the casualties you know will come. After all these years I have come to the conclusion that the best change comes from within. Don't get me wrong, I am as radically oriented as I ever was. But my days of jousting with windmills and damn the cost, are over. Too many casualties. I have figured out by watching termites that I can achieve the goal, without the risk to those I represent, by eating at them from the inside. I recognize that we still need radical activism of the type that I practiced when I was much younger. It draws attention to the problems. But as for me, I work from within. This is the same reason that I haven't supported The Labor Party here in the states. I salute those, like yourself, who devote yourself to this way. But my time is best suited working from within. I will meet you in Promontory (oblique reference to the meeting of the transcontinental railways here in the US, for my friends from other places). So to bring this back to the topic at hand, I am supporting and working actively in the Gore/Lieberman campaign. I feel that to support any of the so called third party efforts will lead to a Bush Presidency. And the effect of that on our environment, labor laws, the fiscal health of our country, Social Security, and on and on is too horrible to contribute to.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 04:20 AM

Doug R., I meant that just because he's from Texas doesn't mean all Texans will vote for him, we know him too well. "All hat and no cattle" is one saying that comes to mind, which is how Doonsbury portrays him.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 07:21 AM

Okay, I now know who Jesse Helms is...oooo...scary, scary. How about a triple ticket of Jesse Jackson, Jesse Helms, and Jesse "the BODY" Ventura? They could run the country like Julius Caesar, Crassus, and Pompey in ancient Rome...by decree. That would be a lively scene. Of course, that coalition fell apart after a while and degenerated into a war, but it would be fun while it lasted, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 02:14 PM

But Jessie Matthews looked a lot better and could sing and dance. That's a proper Jessie.

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 02:49 PM

Sayyyyy, McGrath... She IS better than Ventura. I'd vote for her!

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: DougR
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM

Guest J.B., I knew what you meant I was just giving you a friendly jab. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Presidential Poll
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 07:02 PM

An old friend once said that he favored hereditary monarchy over democracy. He explained: "The hereditary monarch is trained for the job from birth, and within recent generations at least, he or she usually doesn't even want it. Generally these days, kings and queens do at least a halfway decent job, or at least try to avoid looking like a complete jackass. In a democracy, leadership goes to people who want it. That makes me immediately suspicious. If somebody wants the job, they're probably the last person on earth who should have it!"

But since we have the system we have, I'm afraid I have to go with Gore/Lieberman. One advantage of Gore getting in there is the book he wrote eight or nine years ago, "Earth in the Balance: Ecology and the Human Spirit." He says some pretty heavy-duty stuff in that, and if he doesn't get on the stick about environmental issues, that book is sure as hell going to come back to haunt him. All in all, I think he's generally okay. I really favor Nader, but he's an idealist and I'm afraid that if he actually got elected, the "Powers That Be" would eat him alive, if not assassinate him. I'm afraid, sadly but realistically, it takes more of a Machiavellian to be effective in that job. Sigh. . . .

In response to Lonesome EJ: Although fairly close, I don't quite fit the demographics as outlined. I'm at least middle-aged and on the brink of geezerhood. I have never owned a pair of sandals in my life. Granted, I would much rather sit around strumming my six string (classic) rather than hold down a steady job, but since I'm retired from the dreaded nine-to-five, I can and do. My main job right now -- self imposed -- is writing a retrospective on the folk music scene in Seattle during the Fifties and Sixties. And I seem to be spending more time milling around the Mudcat these days. I have no knowledge of stock trading (and my Social Security check doesn't supply my with enough funds to fiddle with even if I did). Also, I was never a member of the SDS. In fact, during the Sixties I was an Ayn Rand fanatic!

I'm a lot mellower now. . . .

Don Firth