Lyr Req: John Tams singing

Subject: John Tams singing
From: Galen
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 03:37 PM

Greetings all!

I am looking for lyics to a song that was sung by John Tams (Hagman) in the 'Sharpe' episode 'Sharpe's Gold'.

The only line I remember goes: "If ever I'll be a soldier again, the devil will be me sergant"

Thank you in advance. Galen

Subject: Lyr Add: ROGUE'S MARCH^^
From: GUEST,Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 04:25 PM

The song is Rogues March....

Tuppence I got for selling me cloak
Tuppence for selling me blanket
If ever I list for a soldier again
Devil shall be me sergeant
Poor old soldier-poor old soldier
If ever I list for a soldier again
Devil shall be me sergeant
^^

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Dave (TAM)
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 04:27 PM

sorry the last two lines should read - If ever I list for a soldier again Devil shall be me sergeant ..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 04:23 AM

Hi, Dave - I fixed the mistake in the lyrics. Are there any more verses, or any background information? Is it traditional? Anybody got a tune?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 05:03 AM

Yes its traditional Joe... I can sing it, but cannot read or play music so someone else will have to come up with that. John Tams recorded it on the Virgin label "Over The Hills And Far Away" the music of Sharpes Rifles. I only know the one verse . Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: Tune Add: ROGUE'S MARCH^^
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 07:34 AM

This is not 100%, but I think it's near enough

MIDI file: MIDI1.MID

Timebase: 480

Tempo: 150 (400000 microsec/crotchet)
Key: C
TimeSig: 6/8 36 8
Name: ROGUE'S MARCH
Start
0000 1 76 127 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 77 127 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 79 090 0239 0 79 000 0001 1 81 090 0239 0 81 000 0001 1 79 090 0719 0 79 000 0001 1 76 127 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 79 090 0239 0 79 000 0001 1 81 090 0239 0 81 000 0001 1 79 120 0239 0 79 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 79 127 0479 0 79 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 76 090 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 127 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 74 120 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 72 090 0239 0 72 000 0001 1 77 127 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 81 090 0719 0 81 000 0001 1 79 127 0239 0 79 000 0001 1 81 090 0239 0 81 000 0001 1 83 090 0239 0 83 000 0001 1 84 090 0479 0 84 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 74 127 0719 0 74 000 0001 1 72 090 0719 0 72 000 0001 1 84 127 0719 0 84 000 0001 1 83 090 0719 0 83 000 0001 1 81 127 0719 0 81 000 0001 1 79 090 0719 0 79 000 0001 1 84 127 0719 0 84 000 0001 1 83 090 0719 0 83 000 0001 1 81 127 0719 0 81 000 0001 1 79 090 0479 0 79 000 0001 1 79 090 0239 0 79 000 0001 1 76 127 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 74 120 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 72 090 0239 0 72 000 0001 1 77 127 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 77 090 0239 0 77 000 0001 1 81 090 0719 0 81 000 0001 1 79 127 0239 0 79 000 0001 1 81 090 0239 0 81 000 0001 1 83 090 0239 0 83 000 0001 1 84 090 0479 0 84 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 74 127 0719 0 74 000 0001 1 72 090 0719 0 72 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

Original ABC
X: 124
T:Rogue's March
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:100
K:C
EEE E2E|FGA G3|EFG AGF|(G2F) E2E|
EEE EDC|FFF A3|GAB c2E|D3 C3 |
c3 B3 |A3 G3|c3 B3 |A3 G2G|
EEE EDC|FFF A3|GAB c2E|D3 C3 ||

Wassail! V
^^

Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROGUE'S MARCH^^
From: wildlone
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 01:45 PM

I found a version of this on a web site some time ago
I sing it somtimes around the camp fire at our Napoleonic re-enactments

The Rogue's March

Melody - Drum tune

I left my home and I left my job
Went and joined the army
If I knew then what I know now
I wouldn't have been so barmy.

Chorus:
Poor old soldier, poor old soldier
If I knew then what I know now
I wouldn't have been so barmy.

Gave me a gun and a big red coat
Gave me lots of drilling
If I knew then what I know now
I wouldn't have took the shilling.

Chorus:

Sent me off on a real old boat
By Christ she was no beauty
Far far across the sea we went
Afore to do my duty

Chorus:

Fought the Russians, or was it the French
Really couldn't tell, sir
All I know is they fought so hard
They sent us all to hell, sir.

Chorus:

When we got back home again
To desert was my intent, sir
I sold my cot and I sold my coat
And over the wall I went, sir.

Chorus:

Went to a tavern and I got drunk
That is where they found me
Back to barracks in chains I was sent
And there they did impound me.

Chorus:

Fifty I got for selling me coat
Fifty for me blankets
If ever I 'list for a soldier again
The devil shall be me sergeant.

Chorus:

dave,pioneer 23 reg RWF.^^

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 03:16 PM

OOOhhh thanks, always wondered if there were more words to this.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Dead Horse
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 07:17 AM

Those lyrics posted were written by me, 'cos i thought the song needed them. We used to dance Longsword to that tune. John Tams brief version is the only fragment known to have survived (?) Some argument to "tuppence i got for selling me coat" my version is "fifty i got ...... refering to 50 lashes of the old cat 'o nine tails.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Dead Horse
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 07:23 AM

Background info This tune was official tune in British army for marching disgraced soldiers "off the premises" after receiving due punishment. Dated to roughly Boer war or perhaps earlier ? The words (unofficial) were composed by rank & file soldiers in barracks, so may not have gone to print. My version owes a lot to "Kerry Recruit"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 12:37 PM

Speaking of John Tams, just tried to pull up "Pull down, Lads" (I think John and Roger Watson penned this one), and can't seem to find it.

Anyone have the lyrics?

Cheers,

-- Arne Langsetmo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: wildlone
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 01:13 PM

Thanks Dead Horse, I hope you did not mind my posting them, I got them from through re-enacting.
Are you in any group?
dave

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PULLING-DOWN SONG (J. Tams/R. Watson)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Feb 01 - 03:18 PM

There's an old thread with a couple of transcriptions of The Pulling Down Song; one is from a recording by a band I've never heard of, the other is from somebody's memory.  Both contain numerous mistakes ("folk process" be hanged, at any rate when it's used as an excuse for not learning a song properly, particularly when the writer is still very much alive).  This from the original Muckram Wakes recording (on A Map of Derbyshire, Trailer LER 2085):

THE PULLING-DOWN SONG

(John Tams and Roger Watson)

Pull down, lads,
Pass the bevvy round, lads.
Tara to Sylvie,
Tara to Jean:
We'll soon be on the road.
Don't think on what you're leaving,
Don't think on what you've found;
Just tear off the Tilt,
Pull out the Chat:
We'll find another ground.

Pull down, lads,
It wasn't a bad ground, lads.
We've made some brass,
You've had a lass:
It's p'rhaps as well we're going.
I know how it can hurt, lads,
To leave her standing here;
For there's often fears
And there's always tears:
But you'll be back next year.

Pull down, lads,
The Sets are cooling down, lads;
Tha Ark's all packed
And the Dodgems stacked:
A bite of scran, then go.
We'll leave it as we found it,
They'll soon forget we've been;
For we trade in fun
And we go and come;
We're often scorned
But seldom mourned.
Oh, I hope you know what I mean.


I'll see if I can sort out a midi for the Mudcat Midi Pages.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:33 AM

Thanks. Looks pretty good the way you have it transcribed.

A couple of differences from what I hear (dunno what's right, which is why I asked):

Pass the _berry_ round lads?? ("berry" for wine?)

Pull out the _chart_? (i.e. map)

The _arc's_ all packed? ("arc" for arc lights).

Vocabulary: The Dodg'ems stacked (Dodg'ems are bumper cars) Sets = generators, AFAIK Tilt = tent scran = food?? Anyone know more specifically?

* * *

Muckram Wakes was Roger and John's band a while back.

June Tabor has a wonderful haunting version of this on "Airs and Graces".

For those wondering, this a tune about the travelling circus folks and their lives. . . .

Thanks once again for the help.

Cheers,

-- Arne

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 11:48 AM

Bevvy=drink (esp in Liverpool) from "beverage".
RtS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 01:23 PM

I can't vouch for my spelling of Ark/Arc, as I no longer have the sleevenotes and can't check.  I can guarantee that the rest is right, though; a "chat", if I remember correctly, is a general-purpose word like "what's it's name" or "thingummybob".  I think that "tilt" is a canvas cover or awning, but this is at a distance of some years.  Yes, "scran" is food.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Feb 01 - 01:27 PM

A tilt is a canvas lorry cover. My uncle used to make 'em.

Les

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 09:39 PM

Good thread! I didnt know until now WHO had written it.....& I've only ever heard it sung by June Tabor.

Wildlone, thanks for posting the words to 'The Rogue's March' - funny how on here you can just 'bump into' the writer!

& to the GUEST, Dead Horse - thanks for writing them! Good stuff!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 10:37 PM

Ooops...only just noticed the dates of the posts on here that I've 'responded' to....

I blame The Duck.....*G*

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GeorgeH
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 07:35 AM

I thought the two versions I have of this (June's and Muckram Wakes' original) both attribute it only to Tams, but I could be wrong!

June's album gives translations of the difficult terms!

I think it's "pull out the chat", and that it refers to the plug connecting the generator to the ride, but this could be pure fantasy on my part. I'll try to remember to check.

I need hardly add that the (very fine!) Muckram Wakes album referred to has been Bulmered . .

George

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,SallyT
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 02:39 AM

Hi Anne,
Just glancing through the Mudcat, interested to see what's going on. I do need to mention that John Tams alone wrote Pulling Down Song.
He worked with Roger and Helen in Muckram Wakes, Muckram was a tiny hamlet close to where John grew up in Derbyshire.   I have been with John for 27 years and recently on moving house, we came across his original scribblings and notes for the song.   He is working with Barry Coope at the moment and the song is often included in their set. It is one of my favourites.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: GUEST,Henryp
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 03:48 PM

It's good to chat! In Till doomsday in the afternoon, Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger discuss The Cant;

The word chaet is frequently used in conjunction with an adjective describing its function or quality. Glimmer chaets are anything to do with a fire, from fire-tools like tongs, poker and fire-irons to fuel in general. A church bell, literally translated, as "a good preacher's thing", and a been looer chaet (with all the possible definitions of the three basic words) could be almost any precious or worthwhile item.

Subject: RE: : John Tams - The Rogues' March
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 01:37 PM

----Some argument to "tuppence i got for selling me coat" my version is "fifty i got ...... refering to 50 lashes of the old cat 'o nine tails. Dead Horse 03 Feb 01----
,..,

Surely so indeed ~~ cf the verse in 'Arthur McBryde'

Ye need not be bragging about your fine clothes
For you've only the loan of them I do suppose.
If you were to sell them in spite of your nose
You'd be sure to get flogged in the morning!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: John Tams singing
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 06:17 PM

The wonders of Youtube - not around when this thread was started!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVneCNSF7wQ