old typography in ballads (yogh)

Subject: old typography in ballads
From: Susan of DT
Date: 22 Aug 97 - 09:41 PM

I need help from a middle English scholar! I was entering ballads into the DT from a source using older letters. I recognize the letter "thorn" but not the one that looks sort of like a "3". What is it and what is it's sound, so I can transcribe it. Thank you.

Subject: RE: old typography in ballads
From: Murray
Date: 23 Aug 97 - 02:44 AM

It's called "yogh", supposedly a form of the letter "g", which got its own varied value--"y" [as in "yoke"] at the beginning of words, and "kh" [= Scots ch as in "loch"] at the end; in the middle of words, sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes GH [which doesn't occur any more]. I should think generally you can transliterate it by either Y or GH, depending on the word.

Subject: RE: old typography in ballads
From: Susan of DT
Date: 24 Aug 97 - 01:33 AM

Thanks Murray. We figured you would be the one to come thru with this.

Subject: RE: old typography in ballads
From: Susan of DT
Date: 24 Aug 97 - 04:54 PM

Murray The song was Robin and Gandyleyn from the Oxford Book of Ballads and most of the yoghs were at the beginning of words, but the rest were internal, none at the end.

Subject: RE: old typography in ballads
From: DrWord
Date: 27 Aug 97 - 03:35 PM

kni3t "knight" and many other Anglo-Saxon words with "gh" in the middle. The other character you may encounter is eth, which is the voiced counterpart of thorn, and appears as a crossed d -- transcribe it "th" And then there's the letter ash which looks like ae run together -- short a sound.

Subject: RE: old typography in ballads
From: Murray
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 01:14 AM

Susan: you can safely transliterate the initial yoghs by "y"s - i.e. 3eue = yeve [= give], 3ouyn = youyn [= given]. 3elpe = yelpe [= boast]; and internally, I think there's only "my3t" in stanza 14, which you can make "myght" I suppose--it's pronounced exactly the same in Scots.

Subject: RE: old typography in ballads
From: LaMarca
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 03:43 PM

Susan, I've got a 1910 edition of the Oxford Book of Ballads that has no weird characters for Robin Hood and Gandelyn (except Robin Hood and Gandelyn themselves, of course). If you like, I can transcribe the lines you can't get after I return from Labor Day vacation. By my reading of this ballad (my Middle English not being the greatest), it appears that the two of them have an archery contest a la William Tell, and Gandelyn kills Robin Hood when he misses (?!?!?). Or is it the other way 'round? Or is some third innocent person killed?