BS: George Bush, next president

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: RocketMan
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 06:37 PM

Uncle Phil gets my vote! Why isn't Bill Monroe's birthday a holiday???

http://www.bluegrasstelegraph.com/philibuster_campaign.htm

RMan

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 06:32 PM

Ralph Nader has some good positions and causes...**Ralph Nader** would be a terrible 'leader'...he has as much sad baggage and skeletons in his closet as the others....he has his place--stirring up issues...even Ross Perot had 'some' experience as a manager....Nader would be lost in the total experience of the presidency....if you want to vote for him as a protest, be my guest....but....

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: GUEST,TedD
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 06:24 PM

Ralph Nader is far and away the best candidate for those of us who are not wealthy or multinational corporations. The obvious reason he is not in this series of "debates" is that he would totally shred those two clowns, and spoil the nice script.

Subject: Ralph Nader
From: GUEST,TedD
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 06:22 PM

Ralph Nader is far and away the best candidate for those of us who are not wealthy or multinational corporations. The obvious reason he is not in this series of "debates" is that he would totally shred those two clowns, and spoil the nice script.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: DougR
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 05:52 PM

Jed! will you for heaven's sake quit confusing folks like Frank with facts????!!! Jeeze! He believed so strongly in what he was spinning, I note that he posted it in another thread too. I think we got your message, Frank.

Let's see now, a sweet Cider for Lena, Jim wants a Makers and Kendall is hitchhiking to Ricks for Canadain Club. We got Canadian Club, Kendall! Why you wanna run off to Caniday, Kendall?

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: JamesJim
Date: 14 Oct 00 - 12:08 AM

Way to go, Jed! I hate "spinning" and "spinners" from whereever it may come. It's obvious that the great State of Texas has made progressive strides under "W." For those who think trashing him and the State is a way to win, I suggest looking back at the first Clinton campaign. Arkansas? Where did they rank in education, etc., etc. during that time? Seems I remember the same stupid "Bubba" comments then. It didn't work then (and shouldn't have) and it won't work now.

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: GUEST,guinnesschik(cookieless,again)
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 04:55 PM

Hear, hear, Jed. I find the quote "Bubbaland" a generalization and insensitive. I have NO "Bubba's" in my family (who have been Texans since the state's beginnings) and only even KNOW two.

And thank you for the well researched response. I'll vote Republican, because it's as close to Libertarian (on the issues that matter to me) as one's going to find.

Ask me why, and I MIGHT even tell you.

;-)g'chik

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Jed at Work
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 04:24 PM

Frankham - I realize you don't mean to ridicule Texas or Texans with your post discrediting our Governor, but comments such as "Bubbaland" (not yours) and your the misrepresentation of selected facts in your quote - highly insult my intelligence, and my home. I took the time to research and respond to those purposely biased comments and have listed them below.

First of all, it is important to state that most of these statistics are rankings in spending - as if spending was the only criteria for success in a given area. Bush and many other Repubicans take strong exception to that notion. Saying, for example that Bush is spending less on state funded social programs is very likely crediting him for achieving a Texas voter mandate - as opposed to an pointing to an example of some shortcoming in his success. Having said that, it is still worth going over the points of attack one at atime.

50th in spending for teachers' salaries

• A legacy inherited from Bush's Democratic predecessors was an education system in need, including undervalued teachers. Governor Bush, has increased the state minimum salary for teachers increased 33 percent.
  
• It is also important to note that much of Texas has very low cost of living figures compared to the national averages. When adjusted for cost of living and teacher experience compared to national indices, Texas ranks 9th in teacher pay. I believe the significant improvement in teacher salaries and the leadership Texas has shown in standardized student achievement tests underscore Bush's commitment to improving teacher excellence, and progress toward achieving that goal.
  
  

49th in spending on the environment

• Since Governor Bush, has been in office environmental spending increased 29%, up $369 million and while this is not the only measure of commitment to environmental issues, it shows a dramatic improvement over Texas's environmental spending history.
  
• Since 1995, state funding for Texas' environmental agency increased 14%, up $84.5 million.
  

48th in per capita funding for public health

• Last year, Governor Bush and the Texas Legislature spent $1.8 billion dollars for health care initiatives in Texas. This marks a new record in State spending for public health programs.
  

47th in delivery of social services

• As is commensurate with popular opinion in America, and more specifically Texas, under Governor Bush the welfare rolls have been cut in half
  
• In support of the people in transition from these programs Bush and the Texas legislature provided $18 million in transitional benefits to help those still moving into meaningful jobs.
  
• During his tenure Texas has increased childcare funding by $357 million. That is an 87 percent increase over the money spent by his Democrat predecessor.
  

42nd in child support collections

• Until January of 1999 child-support collections in Texas were the responsibility of the Texas Attorney General (a Democrat).
  
• In 1999, following the removal of this responsibility from the Attorney General, Texas posted its largest annual increase ($111.4 million) in child-support collections. This represented the largest amount ever collected and outpaced the growth in caseload by 8 percent.
  

41st in per capita spending on public education.

• Again, under Governor Bush there was significant improvement in this area, 56 percent of all new state spending was dedicated to public education
  
• State funding for public schools increased by $8.3 billion. This represents a 37 percent increase in state funding per student
  
• And since it is important to remember that spending is not in and of itself a measure of success; it is important to note that Texas has led the nation on improvement of student test scores.
  
  

BUT ... Texas is:

5th in percentage of population living in poverty

• Under Governor Bush, the poverty rate decreased 21.5 percent and the total number of Texans in poverty decreased 17 percent.
  
• Under Governor Bush, the child poverty rate decreased 19 percent and the overall number of children living in poverty also decreased 19 percent.
  

1st in air and water pollution

• Again, there is improvement to report here.Texas reduced the release and disposal of toxics by 43 million pounds, a 14 percent overall reduction.
  
• Under legislation signed by Governor Bush, Texas became the 3rd state in the nation to require pollution reductions and permits from older, unpermitted utilities - a 50 percent reduction in four years. The job isn't complete but this shows major improvement.
  
• Under two pieces of legislation supported and signed by Governor Bush, Texas will reduce their emissions by more than 250,000 tons each year -- the equivalent of removing 5.5 million cars from Texas roads.
  
• More than 96% of Texas public drinking water meets all standards, up from 88% in 1995.
  

1st in percentage of poor working parents without insurance

• The national rate for this area has increased almost four times as fast as that of Texas.
  
• Texas has slowed the growth of the uninsured to .3% over the Governor's term, while.
  
• Last year alone, Texas provided over $4 billion in health care to the uninsured.
  
• Last year, Governor Bush signed legislation providing an $80 million increase for Medicaid reimbursements to physicians and hospitals providing care for the poor.
  

1st in percentage of children without health insurance

• In order to improve our standard in this area, and resolve the legacy of Governor Bush inherited, he signed legislation providing health insurance for more than 423,000 children.
  
• Under a separate program, Governor Bush and the Texas Legislature provided $25 million to make children of legal immigrants eligible for the children's health insurance program.
  

1st in executions

• No arguement
  
• Commensurate with Texas (and in fact national) voter views, Governor Bush has enforced the death penalty as directed by our courts.
  
• It is also important to remember that Bush has championed law enforcement and justice. Texas is a safer place to live under Governor Bush: violent crime has decreased 20 percent and violent juvenile crime has decreased 38 percent.
  

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: GUEST,Parthenon
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 03:22 PM

It is a shame to say that if either presidential candidate put up for dog-catcher in a normal town, he would be unlikely to be elected. Can't the most powerful country on earth do better than this, it scares the daylights out of me

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: GUEST,Lena
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 03:09 PM

Oh God.A sweet cider for me.Isn't the boogie man from my childood days,mr Bush,dead or so?!

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Frankham
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 01:17 PM

The state of Texas, under the leadership of Governor George W. Bush, is ranked:

50th in spending for teachers' salaries; 49th in spending on the environment; 48th in per capita funding for public health; 47th in delivery of social services; 42nd in child support collections; and 41st in per capita spending on public education.

BUT ... Texas is:

5th in percentage of population living in poverty; 1st in air and water pollution; 1st in percentage of poor working parents without insurance; 1st in percentage of children without health insurance; and 1st in executions (avg. 1 every 2 weeks for Bush's 5 years). Just think of what he could do for/to the country if he were president!!

Just thought you might like to know.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Troll
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 10:53 AM

Why settle for the LESSER of two evils. VOTE CTHUHLU!

troll

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Allan C.
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 10:07 AM

All I really want is for there to be a presidential election which does not amount to the choice of the lesser of evils.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Troll
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 09:53 AM

Lepus Rex... Inboth Iraq and Belgrade a de facto state of belligerence if not war exists or existed. In Iraq there is a clearly defined "no fly zone" of which the Iraqis are well aware. It is in place, at least partially, to prevent genocide by Saddam on the Kurds in the north and the Sunnis around Basra in the south.
As far as Blegrade goes, what happened there was tragic but certainly not deliberate policy. And again, it was done for a clearly defined reason with warning beforehand.
I do not say that I agree with the reasons in either case. I am simply ststing the facts as I see them.
The attack on the USS Cole was made by an unknown enemy, with no warning, in a situation where no declared state of belligerence exists. There are, believe it or not, conventions which govern whether or not a state of war exists and, to date, none of those conventions have been met. The fact that the Cole is a warship is not germane.
If it was indeed Osama bin Laden, let him issue a formal declaration of war and then it will be a military action.
Until then, the attack on the USS Cole was, and will ever be, a terrorist act.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 09:11 AM

lol@kendall - I gotta laugh. I know it's timeto put this thread to bed, and I knew I shouldn't habe eeven looked in, but I did, and wound up posting one final message.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: kendall
Date: 13 Oct 00 - 08:28 AM

Break out the Canadian Club Rick, I'm on my way...

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: JamesJim
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:56 PM

Doug, can you tell me how many I've had already? I know I've been drinking way too much lately. I seem to alternate between crying in my beer and celebrating something or other.

I was feeling euphoric last night, but I am not very thrilled about what happened today. We lost some great Americans and many others were injured. My 401K went south. War is brewing in the middle east and a lot of innocent people are being killed over politics and religion. The price of crude oil just hit an all time high...and when I woke up this morning, Bill Clinton was still President (could this be what is meant by cause and effect)?

Please give me something a little stronger this time -- Maker's on the rocks will do!

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM

His time, or ours Doug?

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:44 PM

MBO! Why are you wasting your time in a thread like this?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:26 PM

But what about the socio-political impact of Red Hugh O'Neill's gallowglasses-with-mattocks at the battle of the Yellow Ford?

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:21 PM

bbc, you sweet doll you, you can have anything you want! Sure good to see that good old bbc again on threads! Smaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

Ok, Spaw! What's your pleasure? How about a Lone Star beer? Might as well get use to it. It's probably gonna become the national beer after the first of the year (giggle)

Mousethief: you ACTUALLY did that? Wow! I'm impressed. Are you retired? I am, so I have lots of time, but I'd never do that. You're a good man!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:50 PM

Yeah Doug...I'll take your drink and a lot more if Bush gets it. To quote from "Animal House," "I suggest you start drinking heavily."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Troll
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:45 PM

M.Beau, this IS fun.It's also important that we all, no matter what our political persuasion,discuss whats going on. Otherwise we must rely on the pre-digested crap that the parties put forth as information.
Where else would I learn that Kendall-a staunch Democrat- doesn't like Gore?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:32 PM

Is it me, or has Mudcat turned into a political forum? What happened to all the FUN BS?

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library)
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:28 PM

Doug: I looked through the Gore thread. There were 2 Bush-bashing posts, and two that strongly called him to task for misstatements or past behaviors. And maybe five in which the people said they hoped he lost, and another five stating a preference for the Democrat over the Republican party. Out of 48.

On the other hand there were 2 Clinton bashing posts (with Gore being found "guilty by association" either implicitly or explicitly), and 1 Gore-bashing post.

The rest were about specific issues, or whether one should vote at all, or about the flawedness of the system.

So yeah, the group seemed to be more heavily leaning toward Gore than toward Bush. But a Bush-bashing thread? Nah, I don't see it that way.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Skeptic
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:06 PM

Oh come on. I'll bet Gore and Bush will be equally adept at ignoring, insulting and misunderstanding other coutries, friend and for alike.

My trouble with Bush is that he comes across as if he derserves to be president because he's from the right family, has money and friends with money, and gosh darn it, his sort are just supposed to run things, else why would he have money, power and position?

Granted, Gore isn't much better. There seeems to be a little feel of noblise oblige there. And I'd prefer it be his VP that's one heartbeat away the Oval Office.

I find Gore's domestic agenda to be less opressive than Bush's. Granted Gore is into feel good political correctness. I'd prefer that over what seesm to be trend toward a a quasi-calvanism. At least the politically correct crowd pays lip service to diversity. I suspect that deep in his heart, Dubya knows Pat Robertson's right.

Regards

John

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: bbc
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:45 PM

I'll go for the drink, Doug, but I do hope it's a victory cup! It's nice that you're serving now. :)

love you,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:23 PM

OK, your point is well taken. The old man, with the help of 14 other countries ALMOST licked Saadam Hussien. Have you noticed that there is only a handful of people in this "discussion?" I'm tired of it, and, I know I can not change your minds, and you sure as hell wont change mine. Enough already!

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:01 PM

Wow, troll, I hadn't thought about Clinton spiriting Gore back to lead the investigation, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Clinton desperately wants to be remembered for something other than a stain on a young intern's dress, though, so on the other hand he might not want Al's help. I guess we'll see.

Kendall! The Texas governor will enter the White House with exactly the same credentials on foreign policy that former Governor Clinton did. Bush does have access to a former president with excellent credentials on foreign policy though, and they probably visit about it over cups of coffee or something. I'd think Bush probably will enter the oval office with a great deal more information in that regard than the Arkansas governor did.

Don't know why BS wasn't included in the Gore for Prez thread. I added it to this thread because that's exactly what it was intended to be.

Who was that ordering a whiskey? Oh, Bart! You got it, just name your brand. This bar is well equipped.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:58 PM

Just one thing, Troll: Terrorists don't attack military targets, they attack civilian targets. As despicable as bombing an 'innocent' Navy ship may be, it's no worse than the US shooting down Iraqi military airplanes, and certainly much better than the US bombing civilian targets in Belgrade. Like it or not, once 'terrorists' attack a military target, they're no longer 'terrorists', but an army. We're all using the same techniques, after all.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Troll
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:08 PM

Mole, it was H.L.Mencken who said that.
Kendall, I really can't recall any major foreign policy triumphs during the Clinton Years. Unless maybe you mean the bombing of that pharmaceuticals plant and the massive effort he mounted in Rwanda to prevent genocide there. Now we have had a US warship attacked, apparently by terrorists.The world awaits to see what Clinton will do.
My guess is that he will call Al Gore to Washington to sit at his side in the Situation Room to show that he (Gore) has a good grasp of foreign policy, while the Bush team will get the same briefings as the press. In other words it doesn't matter that americans are dead, let's play this for every ounce of political gain that we can.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:51 PM

Its silly to think bush would be better at foriegn affairs. He is governor of "Bubba Land" Gore has been a heartbeat away from being president. How can you compare the two offices?

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:40 PM

Why is there no "BS" in front of the thread about AL Gore? Just wondering.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:38 PM

Wait a minute! Wasn't George Bush our last president? Before the sax playing guy? Didn't we already throw his smirky ass out? O-o-o-o-h, that was his daddy. . .

I'll drink whatever you're buying (as long as it's whiskey) and then we can argue about which of the donkeys and pink heffalumps would make a better caretaker of el Casa Blanca (Of all the gin joints in all the world, these two mopes have to pick this one). Ain't politics grand?

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:37 PM

I am moving to Canada

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:21 PM

Alex: The Gore thread is devoted to "issues?" Wasn't aware Bush bashing fell into that category!

Midchuck: what's not to understand? I don't think Jed is joking and I take him to mean that they are both good men and the country is not going down the drain if either man is elected. I agree with him, I just think Bush will do a better job of governing. Someone in this thread parised Gore's credentials in foreign affairs based on the fact that he has been in Washington so long. That's precisely what bothers me about him.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:45 PM

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:30 PM

You do that Bob, and if that airhead wins, I will be here, forever to remind you!

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:46 PM

Jed said:

"We have two well qualified, intelligent, well supported choices as our major candidates for this job.... I am sure that either man will make an honorable president..."

I assume that's intended as a joke, but I miss the point.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: LR Mole
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:17 PM

Well, as Sinclair Lewis said (unless it was Upton Sinclair), no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.I'll drag myself to the polls, though, feeling more deserving of pity than scorn. Beyond anger is only a sort of hollowness, and that's the U.S. resonance, I think. Just water, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: LR Mole
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:16 PM

Well, as Sinclair Lewis said (unless it was Upton Sinclair), no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.I'll drag myself to the polls, though, feeling more deserving of pity than scorn. Beyond anger is only a sort of hollowness, and that's the U.S. resonance, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Jed at Work
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:41 PM

Make mine a guinness, since the cyber world is the only one in which I can drink alcohol (tri-glyceride issue, booze is poison to me, sadly), I might even have two, since you're buying! ;-)

It seems to me that the US has taken this election more seriously then ones in the recent past. We've heard more issues then most can understand (the devil is ALWAYS in the details when it comes to issues, and therefore our discussions about them can't really go beyond philosophy and sound bites). Anyone who cares to notice will have seen and heard plenty from each major candidate, and if they wanted to look further, from all candidates.

For me, stated philosophies, recent record, political alliances, expressed views, presentation skills, body language and what they say when speaking extemporaneously (yes even in the guarded situations of staged debates) gives me plenty of information to make a decision. We have two well qualified, intelligent, well supported choices as our major candidates for this job. All the hateful talk and cynicism by us and other voters not withstanding. I will cast my vote, and I will hope for a victory for my candidate - but I am sure that either man will make an honorable president, and either will do his honest best to do the job well. I am much philosphically aligned with one then other, but I will honor the position no matter who gets elected.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: GUEST,Bob Schwarer
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:06 PM

Thanks, Kendall. I will be sure to vote....for Bush.

Bob S.

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:59 AM

I find it amusing that the competing threads so closely resemble the candidates they are named after. The Gore thread seems to be focused on issues, whereas the Bush thread is a bunch of silliness and folderol.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:52 AM

There you go again, Kendall! You're holding back again!

Drinks are on the house (which means somebody might have to help Kendall up the stairs). :)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Troll
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:15 AM

What we really need is a choice that says "NONE OF THE ABOVE"!

troll

Oh yeah. Diet Coke, DougR

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:04 AM

Hot whiskkey, please. If you need the recipe I'll post it. I'll be drinking a lot of it if this thread title turns out to be true!

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:56 AM

If Bush is president does that mean I don't have to show up for National Guard duty either?

Make mine ginger ale, please. Ginger beer makes my eyeballs hurt...

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:36 AM

It probably could stand improvement, the Secretary of defense is a republican..

Subject: RE: BS: George Bush, next president
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:29 AM

"...and the NRA will run the defense dept."

YES! (Or maybe you suppose it's being well run now? Hmmm?)

P.