Help: The Foggy Dew: 'Valera true'?

Subject: RE: Help: Additional Information on 'Foggy Dew'
From: GUEST,The Celtic Bard
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:59 PM

Ced2, thank you for including that missing verse. The version of the song that I have on CD includes that one but I could never finding it. Even listening closely to the lyrics of the song, I still couldn't understand some of the words. Again, thank you.

Rebecca <><

Subject: RE: Help: Additional Information on 'Foggy Dew'
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 01:42 PM

Master, I've read many of the links, but would love to see a concise summary of the historical facts. One that tied the song lyrics in would be even better. I'll watch for your essay here.

Subject: RE: Help: Additional Information on 'Foggy Dew'
From: GUEST,Fretless
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 04:50 PM

Master, You don't say when the paper is due. If you have time for some fiction that is set in the years of the Easter uprising and incorporates that event as a central episode of the story, read Roddy Doyle's A Star Called Henry. A very different evocation from the one provided by the song.

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: GUEST,markh
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:27 PM

Pronunciation: Cathal - you leave out the T, and the a's make more a short "oh" sound, I have it from someone with that name.

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:55 PM

Amazing and wonderful -- eight years of silence on this important thread, and a sudden update, completely relevant if minor, out of the blue. You have to love it.


A

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 11:43 PM

Relevant, except that McGrath already contributed the same information 7 1/2 years ago...markh must've missed it!

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 02:47 AM

I have no motive in asking but why did Dominic Behan castigate De Valera in his song ' The Patriot Game ' ie.
And Still De Valera is greatly to blame,
For shirking his part in the patriot game.

eric

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: Gulliver
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 11:47 AM

Firstly, when De Valera gave up the fight against the Free State government and decided to enter constitutional politics (1926) he was abandoning his old Republican principles. He had to take the oath to the King of England and recognise Ireland's Dominion status with the British Empire (as against asserting that Ireland was an independent republic), among other things. When De Valera was successful at the polls and formed a government around 1931 the Republican hard-liners (his ex-comrades) continued their fight "for the Republic" in the form of Sinn Fein and the IRA--which declared their allegiance to the First Dáil (of 1919, I think).

The IRA was declared an illegal organisation, members were imprisoned during the 1930's and during and after WW2 they were interned for several years. Several IRA members were executed for various offences involving guns and bombs during this period.

Hard-line Republicans like Dominic Behan considered De Valera a traitor for giving up the fight back in the 20's, especially in the light of so many of his own ex-comrades having been executed, sometimes in a brutal manner, by the Free Staters, and then turning against his ex-comrades in the 30's and 40's. Dominic's brother Brendan was imprisoned twice (once in England and later in Dublin) for his Republican activities.   

Don

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: GUEST,jay
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:29 AM

Just a small point. Dev didn't lead Ireland out of the commonwealth -John A Costello did in 1949 . DeValera thought that if Ireland left the commonwealth unilaterally ,it would damage relations with northern unionists and stall Irish reunification. That is what did happen . After Costello made his announcement ,the British government passed a bill making unification subject to unionist consent.
I believe The Foggy Dew lyrics was written by a catholic priest . It certainly gets very mystical at some point , going on about seven tongues of flame shining over the lines of steel . There's an interesting thread about the English foggy foggy dew song elsewhere on mudcat . The tunes are different aren't they?

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: Gulliver
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:37 AM

Yes, Guest, Jay, that's correct about 1949.

As regards the author, I found this on the web:
In Songs of the County Down, by Cathal O'Doyle, the author is given as Canon Charles O'Neill, a parish priest of Kilcoo and later Newcastle. "In 1919 he went to Dublin and attended a sitting of the first Dáil Éireann (Irish Parliament). He was moved by the number of members whose names were answered during roll call by "faoi ghlas ag na Gaill" (locked up by foreigners) and resolved to write a song in commemoration of the Easter Rebellion".

The music is from a manuscript that was in possession of Kathleen Dallat of Ballycastle. That manuscript gives Carl Hardebeck as the arranger. It was recorded in 1913 by John McCormack. (from www.cormacbreatnach.com/the_foggy_dew_2006.asp I presume the piece recorded by McCormack was the manuscript music)

We play it occasionally at sessions. I like the song (though both my grandfathers were in the British army at that time and several of their cousins were killed close to Suvla Bay).

Don

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: Gulliver
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:47 AM

Amos, yes, that's quite a seamless transition, isn't it? It says something about time...

Read more about Carl Hardebeck here

And I never cease to be amazed at what can be found on the WWW...

Don

Subject: RE: Foggy Dew 1916
From: MartinRyan
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:58 AM

Just to tidy up a little: that's Cathal O'Boyle.

Regards

p.s.
I have seen the song attributed to "P.O'Neill" i.e. the nom-de-guerre often used by the IRA. It's as well to get these things right!