Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones (Morris Dance)

Subject: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Dec 00 - 09:22 AM

Sweet Jenny Jones is a morris dance in the Adderbury tradition. At the start of the dance we sing a couple of lines:

My sweet Jenny Jones is the pride of Llangollen
My sweet Jenny Jones is the girl that I love (or the girl I adore

I've searched the DT and the forum, but there's no trace of her. Anyone know where I can find the rest of the words? The tune is on Lesley Nelson's Contemplator site, but with a different title (something like One Fine Summer Morning)

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Dec 00 - 12:52 PM

Well, I found a brief mention of the song at www.horsebrass.com, which is the website of a Real Ale pub in Portland, Oregon (!); somebody has quoted a Welsh song which may or may not have anything to do with it (I can't tell, 'cos it's in Welsh), but does mention Jenny Jones and Llangollen, where apparantly there is a pub that bears her name:

Re: The Mystery of the Jenny Jones Pub, Wales

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Margaret V
Date: 08 Dec 00 - 06:52 PM

When I was young, my grandmother, from whom I got my interest in Wales and things Welsh, gave me a horse brass that pictured Jenny Jones. At the time I didn't know who Jenny Jones was (just that she was Welsh) and I still don't really know what a horse brass is (just that I had one). Perhaps Jenny Jones horse brasses are common and that is why they were discussing her on that pub's website. Anyway, later in life I saw Jenny Jones again in the form of Staffordshire china figurines of the 19th century. Here is what Kovel's has to say regarding the Jenny Jones of Staffordshire figurine fame:
"Jenny Jones was a dairymaid at Pontblyddin Farm. Her sweetheart, Edward Morgan, was a ploughman. Morgan spent 20 years with the navy and returned and married Jones. In 1825 actor Charles James Mathews met the Morgans and heard their story. He composed the 'Song of Jenny Jones and Ned Morgan,' which was used in a show in 1836. The romantic ditty was popular for the next 20 years. Figurines of Jenny Jones, Edward Morgan, and the pair leaning on a milestone were made in the 1840s."

I don't know if this is the same song as the one offered on the pub website, or indeed if Pontblyddin Farm is near Llangollen... but thought perhaps this might be of interest. Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Dec 00 - 09:02 PM

Definitely of interest, Margaret; thankyou.  On the strength of your reference, I had a look at the Bodleian Library Broadside Collection, where, as it turns out, there are quite a few "Jenny Jones" songs; parodies of, answers to, etc., so it must have been pretty well-known.  Here is one:

Jenny Jones  Printed between 1823 and 1834 for B.W. Dickinson of York.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Dec 00 - 09:25 PM

My God!! I went to Middle School/High School with a Jenny Jones.......she had BIG boobs when most of us had none, and was never shy about showing them off in gym class.....I had forgotten all about her.......

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Dec 00 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for those links, Malcolm. My rudimentary Welsh tells me that the first verse mentions many other places in the vicinity of Llangollen, but not what it says about them.

The morris tune consists of two 8-bar sections, and the dance is ABA repeated 6 times. Both the Welsh and the broadside versions would fit very well if the tune were played AABA.

Interesting that your first link gives yet another variant of the second line ("the girl I love best") - I've just checked in Lionel Bacon's "A Handbook of Morris Dances", (The Morris Ring 1974), and he gives those words too. It appears the folk process is alive and well among morris dancers - well a song of two whole lines is bit too much for us to get completely correct, I suppose.

Does anyone know any more of the song which accompanies the morris dance?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:01 PM

OK. Margaret the Slave Driver wants info on Jenny Jones … and who am I to argue? So here (in translation) is the low-down on the tune known as Cadair (or Cader) Idris according to one of our experts, Huw Williams:

An original tune by John Parry (bardic name: Bardd Alaw), based on the style of old harp tunes, and written by him in Denbigh in 1804. It was first published in "The Welsh Harper, being an Extensive Collection of Welsh Airs" (1839). It is interesting how Charles J. Mathews, the famous entertainer, came to set the English words for the tune, and how it came to be known in English circles as Jenny Jones. According to "The Life of Charles James Mathews" (Charles Dickens; London 1879), Mathews visited Wales during 1824-1826, and he heard a harper playing the tune on his harp in a hotel in Llangollen. He had never heard the tune before and had no idea who had written it, but he liked it so much that he memorized it. In the farmhouse where he was staying in Pontblyddyn there was a maid called Jenny Jones and a farm servant named David Morgan. Mathews wrote a ballad for the tune, giving it the name of the maid. One night, he said, he sang the ballad in the house of friends in London, and at the end of the evening of entertainment, an old man came up to him and said that he had written the tune and that it had been awarded a prize in the 1804 Eisteddfod under the title Cader Idris. That old man was Bardd Alaw. Later Mathews used the ballad under the title Jenny Jones in a revue (review?) called, "He would be an actor", and it is said that the tune was whistled everywhere in the London streets after that.

*****

OK. Me again. I take it that the words everyone refers to are those by Ceiriog - which would put them around the middle to latter part of the same century. He churned out a lot of stuff typical of the time. Not my cuppa, really. The English (One morn from Llangollen's dim violet valley) follow the same general idea of the Welsh.

Hope that's of some interest!

Sian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: GUEST,Bobbie Dennis
Date: 13 Mar 04 - 04:27 PM

I purchased a cassette tape in 1996 in the Blue Ridge Mountains by the name of "The Village Green" - Dance Music of Old Sturbridge Village (North Start Reocrds, 95 Hathaway Street, Providence, RI 02907 - catalog 1-800-346-2706). The instrumental piece JENNY JONES

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: GUEST,Bobbie Dennis
Date: 13 Mar 04 - 04:32 PM

.... sorry, I got blooped off the page for a second. I am a beginner to intermediate harp player, and I liked the instrumental version of Jenny Jones. I was interested in find the music to this now that I have some information about the lyrics.

Would anyone happen to know where I might find it? I will try going through the North Star Records company...

thanks...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 11:43 AM

A bit of the song can be heard on Gandson of Morris On

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 10:47 AM

Bobbie -- Search on The Language of Heaven and Michael Lewis - his compilation cd has an instrumental version of Cadair Idris which is Jenny Jones. Perhaps Mr. Lewis, a famous Hollywood writer of music scores, who also has a great interest in Welsh music, could help you.
You might write to some of the Welsh harpists - I'd suggest Rhiain Bebb at Tant Records in Wales - Tant has a web site.
You might also find a tune book with it labeled as Cadair Idris.
I've thought this would be a good song to do, if it had a chorus (more than the first 2 lines above) - I guess I need to write one, unless someone knows of one.
Chris

Subject: Lyr Add: JENNY JONES (from Bodleian)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:38 PM

From the broadside image at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, Firth b.25(158).

JENNY JONES

My name's Edward Morgan. I live at Llangollen,
From the vale of St. Taffy'd, the flower of North Wales.
My father and mother too live at Llangollen.
Good truth, I was born in that sweetest of vales.
Yes indeed, and all countries so foreign and beautiful
That little valley I prize far above,
For indeed in my heart I do love that Llangollen,
And sweet Jenny Jones too in truth I do love.

For twenty long years I have plough'd the salt seas
And serv'd my full time in a man-o'-war ship;
And 'deed, goodness knows, we had bloody engagements
And many a dark storm on the pitiless deep;
And I've seen all the lands that are famous in story,
And many fair damsels to gain me have strove;
But I said in my heart I do love that Llangollen,
And sweet Jenny Jones too in truth I do love.

I've seen Queen Victoria and the Lord Mayor of London,
With kings of far countries and many a queen,
The great Pope of Rome and the Duchess of Dangouleme [d'Angoulême].
Up from King George to Sir Watkin I've seen;
But no, not princesses, kings, dukes, nor commissioners,
No, goodness knows it, my envy could move;
For indeed in my heart I do love that Llangollen,
And sweet Jenny Jones too, in truth I do love.

I parted a lad from the vale of my fathers
And left Jenny Jones then a coquet young lass;
But now I'm returned a storm-beaten old mariner.
Jenny from Jones into Morgan shall pass;
And we'll live on our cheese and our ale in contentment,
And so thro' our dear native valley shall rove;
For indeed in our hearts we both love that Llangollen,
And sweet Jenny Morgan with truth will I love.

Subject: Lyr Add: CADAIR IDRIS (Welsh)
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 11:39 AM

The Welsh version below - I think both versions need a good chorus, not just a repeat of the last line. Any suggestions? (Also if you google around there is a cool Morris Dance video with the tune.)
Something like a chorus starting with "Oh, I love the Valleys, and I've seen the World..........." but I'm no expert.......
Chris yn Wheaton

CADAIR IDRIS - Ceiriog

Bu+m innau'n rhodianna yn Nyffryn Llangollen,
        Yn dringo y mynydd i Gaer Dinas Bra+n.
Yn edrych i fyny at Gynwyd a Chorwen,
        A mynydd Rhiwabon yn deifio gan da+n.
Mi a welais la+n ddyfroedd, aberoedd y Berwyn,
        A da ardal Dyfrdwy ar aswy a de;
Ond mi welais la+n fwthyn, nis gwn i beth wedyn,
        Nis gallwn i weled dim byd ond efe.

Disgynnais o'r Castell, a chroesais yr afon,
        Fel curai fy nghalon anghofiaf fi byth;
Ac fel heb yn wybod i'm traed ar fy union,
        At dy+ Jenny Jones ymgyfeiriais yn syth.
Ac er iddi eistedd ymysg ei chwiorydd,
        A'i thad wrth ei hochor yn siarad a+ mi,
Gyda'i brad o'r tu arall, nis gwn i mo'r herwydd,
        Nis gallwn i weled neb byw ond hyhi.

Yn eglwys Llangollen tra'r clychau yn canu,
        Os aethum yn wirion mi wn pwy a'm gwnaeth;
Unasom a'n gilydd byth byth i wahanu,
        Yn dlawd neu'n gyfoethog, yn well neu yn waeth.
Mae'n dda gennyf bobpeth, 'n enwedig fy hunan,
        Mae Jenny yn gwybod yn well na myfi;
Mae yn dda gennyf ganu, mae'n dda gennyf arian,
        Ond nis gallaf garu dim byd heblaw hi.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM

Here's my chorus - any suggestions for changes welcome -

   G                   D
I left the Valley, and sailed the wild ocean,
    A                         E7    A               
Saw many a fine face -- made many a penny
             D                   G          A
But there is nothing so rare, so pure or so fine
       D            G         A             D
As the pride of Llangollen, - dear charmin' Jenny

If this works, then I'll need a Welsh version and an agent!

Chris yn Wheaton

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 11:10 AM

Is the tune the same as the one for "I wonder will anyone marry me now ?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 Mar 04 - 07:45 PM

Yes, Dave. Basically the same tune

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones (Morris Dance)
From: GUEST,Starbuck Friend
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:34 PM

I stumbled upon this site looking for the lyrics to Sweet Jenny Jones. The lyrics that are up there are great, but they don't include the phrase "My sweet Jenny Jones is the pride of..." etc. Do how does that fit into the song?

I am a member of Golden Star Morris in Norwich, and when we dance Sweet Jenny Jones, we always sing:

My sweet Jenny Jones is the pride of North Walsham,
My sweet Jenny Jones is the cheapest and best!

I have heard a rumour that it's referring to a specific type of cider (presumably named after the Welsh Jenny Jones from the song) but I don't know if that's true or not.

i would love to know how this phrase fits in with the rest of the lyrics, so if anyone can shine any light on this is would be great.

thanks
Starbuck

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sweet Jenny Jones (Morris Dance)
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Aug 13 - 03:14 PM

For those here who may be interested, I just published a four part series on my pancocojams cultural blog about the folk song "Jenny Jones" (including "Sweet Jenny Jones" & "Jennie Jenkins", the African American playground rhyme "Aunt Jenny Died", and the Jamaican Mento song "Come To See Janie".

The source for that Jamaican song was given by Q in his post in this Mudcat thread: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=40845 "jamaican folk music"

That source is "p. 50, with musical score.
Olive Lewin, Coll., 1973, Forty Folk Songs of Jamaica, General Secretariat of the Organization of American States, Washington, D.C."

"Come To See Janie" is like "Jenny Jones" in that the lyrics are about a suitor who comes to the woman's house, is told that the woman can't see him because she's engaged in some household activity, and is eventually told that the woman is dead. Also, like "Jenny Jones", "Come To See Janie" includes rhyming verses about the woman wearing a dress of one color after another. However, besides the fact Janie" is a variant form of the female name "Jennie" ("Jenny"), the only similarity that the Jamaican song "Come To See Janie" has to the African American rhyme "Aunt Jenny Died" is that the central woman character dies in both of those compositions.

Btw, in that series I included a hyperlink to that above mentioned Mudcat thread, as well as a hyperlink to this Mudcat thread (and others). I also quoted Margaret V Date: 08 Dec 00 - 06:52 PM in Part II of that series http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/08/jenny-jones-and-other-related-folk-songs.html and also included a video of a Morris dance group singing & dancing to "Sweet Jenny Jones."

My thanks to all those whose comments I quoted.