Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: pavane
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 06:05 AM

My wife does a lot of singing in 'old folks homes' aka nursing homes. Yes, she does keep the volume down, but there is always one who doesn't want music - they just get wheeled out!. The current age group seem to like early rock & roll, Rock around the Clock, Buddy Holly, and Connie Francis songs always go down well. On the occasions when I have been able to go as well, (It is normally weekday afternoons, when I am at work) we do some folk, usually Welsh tunes and the odd song. It always goes down well, and music in general seems to bring to life people who have barely moved for weeks. There was one old man singing along, when the staff didn't even know he could speak! It is usually the music from people's youth that is remembered best, so in a few years, yes, it will be Black Sabbath etc.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: mooman
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 05:53 AM

Ah...I wish I had seen this show. If Reg Presley is even more scary now than he was 30 years ago that should be a sight to behold!

mooman

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 05:51 AM

If people in old folks homes start listening to Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Floyd etc etc in a few years time - will anyone ask for the volume to be turned down???

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: pavane
Date: 25 Jun 01 - 05:32 AM

According to a story I heard several times, Dave Dee was once a policeman, and attended the crash in which Eddie Cochran was killed.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,John Hill
Date: 31 Dec 00 - 07:34 AM

Nostalgia's not what it used to be

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Rachel D
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 04:01 AM

Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich are playing Sherfield English Village Hall this year.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: DougR
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 01:39 PM

Spaw, sometime back I lost my Orphan Annie decoder ring, but I could send you a genuine Jack Armstrong hike-o-meter if you'd like one of those.

DougR

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: little john cameron
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 12:00 PM

Ah saw the ane aboot DOO-WOP an ah thocht it wis great.Ye're richt aboot gettin a fricht when ah saw whit they aw looked like efter aw these years,but the singin wis jist as guid as 40yrs ago.It aye amazed me whit could be done wi C-Am-F-G. LJC

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:57 AM

Some of the best shows that I have seen lately have been by Willie Nelson and Bob Dylan. These guys ain't to young, but I can't wait to see them again. But I think this just concurs with 'Spaws point, they are songwriters who wrote and continue to write tremendous songs.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Russ (I think)
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:19 AM

Russ signing as whatever sequence of characters pops into my head. Senior moment. (If it were only just a moment.)

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:08 AM

Say what? You're Russ signing as Steve or Steve signing as Russ or Fred signing as Jablonski or.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:48 AM

OOPS! I mis-signed the tomcat thing.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:45 AM

Ws and Steve.........Its actually both sides of the coin. Again, I think that one of the differences btween folk and pop is that in folk the emphasis is most often on the song and in pop, most often on the performer.

I agree that its kinda' pathetic on the one hand, but Steve's point is equally valid and gawd knows a lot of us want to recall that "lost youth." 'Course, looking at some of these people just makes me think how old I'm getting!

Damn interesting and entertaining thread.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:40 AM

Steve, exactly.

When watching an over-the-hill entertainer I usually recall the ancient joke.

Why do tomcats lick their genitals?

Because they can.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:30 AM

Let's not blame the performers so much, they couldn't do it if there wasn't an audience for it. Remeber that this is pop music that we're talking about, the purpose of which was fun. If watching these performers brings back some people's youth, what's wrong with that?

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 08:43 AM

Notwithstanding Guest Russ's comments, I think this kind of thing is pretty awful. It's not that the performers are old -- I am happy to go see old people perform music, as long as they are still creatively active (a few years ago I took in an outstanding performance by Stefan Grapelli, who must have been about 90 at the time). I'm happy to go see a movie starring Paul Newman, or listen to a performance by B.B. King, because these people continue to create meaningful works of art that reflect who they are now.

But I don't see much value in a 65-year-old trying to pretend he's still a 25-year old, playing some piece of pop drivel that he managed to land on the charts when he was a youngster. In fact, I find it very depressing. It kind of carries the message that this was the only moment in the performer's life that had any meaning, and the performer is now desperately trying to hang onto that moment because he is no longer capable of doing anything meaningful. AND, if that "one brief shining moment" consists of Peter Noone singing "Dandy" or "Mrs. Brown You've Got A Lovely Daughter" -- well, it's not really much to hang your hat on, is it?

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 07:01 AM

Yeah but, Rick, when you describe Reg Presley (Troggs front man) as having the weirdest expression, please remember he is also into crop circles, aliens, ufo's and etc. Perhaps he IS an alien....;-)

Or perhaps the alien is really Cliff Richards. Or does he just have a portrait of himself, which gets older and older, in the attic???

Cheers

Dave the ageless Gnome

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 01:23 AM

Does anyone feel like the Jonathin Winters character on "Happy Days"? Remember, as Orcans aged they got younger and younger...ending up in diapers. I feel I'm getting less and less mature, and more childlike every day. Can you imagine our PARENTS spending all this time on Mudcat (if they'd had computers)?

Rick

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 03:19 PM

I think you missed it there Doug. Rick said a lot of folkies age gracefully, but you and Kendall aren't aging at all. You've been a pair of old farts for a llooonnnggg time. Russ and I are joining up.....Can you send the Secret Decoder Rings soon?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: DougR
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 02:20 PM

Rick: You do have a point. Not all of us age as gracefully as Kendall, Sandy, and I do, of course, and I did see the show you refer to, but I didn't watch the whole thing. Too painful.

DougR

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Grab
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:30 AM

the strains of "Ferry Cross The Mersey"

"Strains" is an apt way of describing that. I know I'd rather have a rupture than listen to it... :-)

McGrath's "Good things improve with time" has the flip-side that "Stuff which isn't, doesn't". Some stuff may seem cool at the time, but looks desperately crap when you look back later. Other stuff is timeless. I know for certain that in 20 years time, I'd not want to go to a concert to listen to Kylie singing "I should be so lucky", so I'm not sure why the 60's version of bubblegum pop should be any different.

Grab.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:22 AM

Spaw, I love it when you talk dirty to me.

FARTS UNITE!!!!! TO THE BARRICADES!!!! (Hell, where are my glasses?)

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Steve Latimer
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 08:15 AM

Rick,

I'm pretty sure that Carl Perkins died a few years ago.

Someone who had a centre named after them made a pretty good point, "It's better to Burn out than to fade away".

I didn't see the Brit show, but I did see the Doo Wop show and I thought it was very good.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 12:07 AM

Of course I made the diferentiation Paw...but that was back at the beginning...and you know hard it is for some old folks to hold a thought....BUT DON'T FORGET FOLKS..elderly ROCKERS don't have to be...what's the word I want...."silly", how 'bout that?

Lots with pots are still great...like James Brown! Aretha! McCartney (oh shit, I shouldn't have used him as an example) THE MOODY BLUES! Long John Baldry! Ringo, for heaven's sake! Oh yeah, Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee Lewis (he hasn't killed a wife for years but he still rocks)

But I stand by my opinion that the Trogg guy and Peter Noone were scary! Oh, and that Gerry may not HAVE a pacemaker yet, but he still screwed up "Ferry Cross The Mersey".

Rick

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 04:47 PM

Ya' know Russ, you have a point. I myself reached the moment you mention about 10 years ago when still in my early forties and it is great not to give a shit. For instance, let me say that you're fucked up. Wasn't that great?

Actually Dougie, Rick and most of us DID make the differentiation between folkies and rockers. Sandy sure doesn't count does he? Or Seeger or Art...........Now Kendall on the other hand..............Well, let me just say its senseless talking about Kendall to begin with.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Troll
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 04:42 PM

RIGHT ON RUSS! That's tellin' 'em bro.
Lepus, bert, Amergin, that's what you get for thinking. Us old farts are having fun .

troll *****BIG Grin***

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 04:14 PM

What else would you have them do?

If they are having fun and making some money, what further justification would they need?

One of the joys of maturing is reaching the point where you TRULY do not care what anyone else thinks. When I was so much older than I am now, I said I didn't care but I really did. Now that I am younger, I don't even bother to say that I don't care, but I really don't.

I personally would prefer to die with my boots on. If I were an aging rock star I would hope to die while cavorting like an idiot on stage.

There's a lot of rhetoric in this thread that is based upon very bad assumptions about what is proper behavior for people of a certain age.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Amergin
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:48 PM

Lepus, so did I....

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: DougR
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:37 PM

Aw Come on, Rick! **Grin** I can attest to the fact that life is not over at age 69! **BIGGER GRIN** "Pushing 70!" Well, I'll declare! You may have Kendall, Sandy and a few other "old," folks (including me)jumpin' on your case, for such (get ready now) ***GREAT BIG GRIN*** intemperate remarks!

DougR

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Bert
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:24 PM

Yeah, I was expecting WOAD or something like that.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:16 PM

Huh... I thought this was going to be about Stonehenge or something...

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 02:25 PM

Hamish Henderson, Fred Jordan, Bob Copper, Francis McPeake, Pete Seeger. That'll do for a start. Any of them under 80?

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Troll
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 09:37 AM

Steve, thankyouthankyouthankyou. A fun site.

troll

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Allan C.
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 09:35 AM

It can be a thing of wonder to listen to someone recount their days of past glory (well, at least for the first time or two!). All too often it is a pathetic thing to watch someone attempt to PERFORM the things of past glory. The good news is that there are still some folks who can still portray those days with a great degree of skill. Gladys Knight and the Pips is among the latter. She/they did a show some time ago at the White House. She still looked vital and put on a heck of a good show.

It has been said that the mistakes you make (even some of the old bumps and bruises) eventually come back to haunt you. I am sure that my 22+ years of smoking (now far behind me) will eventually catch up with me one way or another. (A lot of doctors have observed a distinct and obvious effect of smoking upon the texture and appearance of the skin in many people, for instance.) It comes as no surprise to me that some of the early rockers are now showing some of the side effects of their earlier lifestyles.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:51 AM

I was channel surfing the other night and saw that the show was on. I kept flipping the dial. Keep in mind that most of these folks were never the bright lights of the music scene -- The Troggs had two hits, Herman's Hermits was a kiddie band, Gerry and the Pacemakers never would have gone anywhere if the Beatles hadn't made such a big splash that anyone with a Liverpool accent was guaranteed a shot. Eric Burdon had a little more musical substance, but most of these guys were lightweights even when they were in their prime.

I think McGrath hit on the critical point -- what have most of these guys done in the last 35 years other than continue to rehash their brief moment in the limelight? It's pretty sad, really. If the crowning moment of your life was getting some piece of pop fluff played on the radio when you were 22, and forever after you spend all your time and energy trying to recreate it (rather than moving on to something more meaningful, music-related or not), it has to get you down.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:59 AM

...and spare a thought, when the '60s survivors tour on their old hits that Marty Wilde (father of the bodacious Kim- glad you gave up singing for gardening, girl) at 60 still has to sing "Teenager in love"!
RtS

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:39 AM

Troll (at the risk of serious thread creep), if you want to know who wrote the book of love, check out Mr Gradgrind's literal answers to rhetorical questions.

Steve

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Troll
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:14 AM

Tom Petty is a good ten years younger than Jagger et.al. He didn't leave Gainesville for the West Coast until the early 70's with Mudcrutch and didn't form the Heartbreakers til maybe two years later.
His family does tend toward the lean side tho. When he was a kid he had to stand in the same place twice to cast a shadow. He started out playing bass and I think it weighted more than he did.

troll

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:57 AM

Well Keith turned something.......I'm not sure just what, but then again, I'm not too sure what it was when he started. Funniest interview I ever saw (and I have about 10 minutes of it on tape) was done a fe years ago with Hunter Thompson talking to Keith Richards. Uh, let's say they were both talking in the same place although each could have been talking to a lamp, a wall, each other, or the ghost of Smoky Joe...........It was a complete riot.

Of the older rockers, Tom Petty still cooks along pretty well, but there's always been a bit of the Florida cracker/country boy about him and maybe that helps.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:41 AM

Now BIG MICK. THERE'S a man who's ageing well. The problem seems to be that the very short rock stars become very rounded and the taller ones like Mick (Jagger, not Lane) and Keith turn anorexic.

Rick

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:27 AM

Bullshit, Fielding. I have seen you play any number of instruments. The fingers work fine................can't speak to the other parts..............LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 12:07 AM

Spaw if you put Eric Burdon, Gerry Marsden and Van Morrison on a stage together right now, they'd look like three very short elderly accountants....VERY RICH accountants though. On the other hand, David Crosby apparently still has what it takes to be a gene pool. Who'da thunk it. Now I still have all my hair, but that's the ONLY part of me that works!

Rick

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:58 PM

Spaw, what do you have against baldness??

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 10:54 PM

I had bypassed this thread for some reason and opening it is the proverbial can of worms.

Its like looking in a distorted mirror........these guys look like hell, but I'M okay!!! Gawd..........I went to a 30th reunion a few years back and it was a two day thing starting at a hangout called the "Pour House" that was the place to be when you could buy beer. So here's all these 50 year olds playing teeny boppers again and it was kinda' frightening. Now I hadn't seen most of them in 30 years so I'm sitting around wondering who that old bat is or why all these fuckers are bald! It was a bit gruesome when they got into the dancing bit..........

I saw the promos for your show Rick since one of my PBS stations is using it too, but I missed it. I was actually wanting to see it in that same bizarre way. On the other hand, VH1 is doing a good job with their "Legends," "Storytellers," and "Behind the Music" series in giving me an "Old Fart" fix. The more mellow of folkier types may not fare any better in the looks department (neither do I), but at least the act has matured too. A few months ago I caught someone who sounded like Paul Simon, but looked like a little, fat, bald, Jewish guy. Is there any need to mention James Taylor? I thought not.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Troll
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 10:17 PM

It's tough to know when to quit. I saw Jimmie Rodgers (Honeycomb) on the Sha Na Na show some years ago. It was pretty pathetic. The voice wasn't there anymore. Even Sinatra, who should have known better, hung on too long.
I hope I'll realize it when my time comes.

troll

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:07 PM

Thanks Art...and I won't be 60 for a while yet.

Now looky here Bert! On your WORST day you've got more sex appeal than that Troggs guy! My point was not that the Brit invasion guys shouldn't still be making music (well some of them anyway) it was the self-consciousness of it all. I forgot Eric Burdon. I thought he was fine.

But I gotta say that the American bands from the same era (and before) who are mostly black, hold up soooo much better.

In Toronto we have the legendary Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins, who has grown into his persona quite nicely. He's the sort of "grandfather of Rock" around here.

But as far as folk music goes... Well just take our friend Sandy Paton. He still gets those hearts a fluttering when he sings in that beautiful high register....but he doesn't dance, dress in a tight black suit, dye his hair with shoe polish....and sing "Wild thang....I thank you moooooove me"!

Rick

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:43 PM

Rick,

This do hit close to home ! (And I will hit 60 next year!)

Just allow me to say that I was recently asked to do a story-telling fest-- all tall tales since I can no longer pick anything worth showing anybody. Those tall tales were the introductions to the songs in the old days---just a way of setting up what I REALLY wanted people to hear---the ballads and songs I'd managed to find and keep. I knew it wasn't gonna be easy and as it turns out it was completely bizarre -- me just sitting there rattling off the intros without the music following. All I can tell ya is, I'm glad there weren't many people there to see me fumbling around trying to remember out o' context bits and pieces. That'll be the last time I do that even for big money. ---------------- Yeah, we gotta know when to stop in spite of all the good intentions and the wishful thinking of our fans.

By the way Mr. Rick, your CD This One's The Dreamer is a fine piece of work. I just listened to it again this afternoon.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Clifton53
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:21 PM

I didn't think Eric Burdon was TOO bad, I think he was light years ahead of any of these guys to begin with, and kept his career going a bit longer when he teamed up with WAR. Naturally, to growl and scream as he did when he was in his twenties, is too much to expect of him I guess.

Another thing that struck me funny was, although the stars of the acts were there and excluding the Troggs who I'm pretty sure are composed of the original members, and mind you I didn't see the whole show, didn't the backing bands seem a bit young? Accounting for those who may have passed on in the interim, I think it says a great deal that MORE original members didn't join in.

Nostalgia has always been a big draw, and quality suffers in the bargain.

Clifton

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:07 PM

Good things improve with time. And they change.

The trouble with the kind of thing Rick's been looking at is that the performers are pretending/attempting not to change.

Real musicians, in any genre, get better and better.

Subject: RE: Ancient Brits, HOW could they do it!
From: Cobble
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:04 PM

Be careful we are only getting you back for all the old foggies you send over here. I know them we have had them for years. Start nameing them brits or I will start compiling a list for later. Vengence will be ours.

Cobble.