Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: John P
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 12:05 PM

Hal an tow, jolly rumbalow,
We were up long before the day-o
With provalone on rye bread,
With mustard, hold the mayo

Sorry . . .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:56 AM

At slight (!) risk of thread drift, is "ll" in Kernewek pronounced as "ll" in Cymraeg (Welsh) ?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: GUEST,Little Robin Hood
Date: 25 Feb 09 - 07:25 PM

What about an unscrambled version, like this?

Robin Hood and Little Shaun
to the greenwood they are gone
And we will to the forest go
to see what they do there oh!

Smiles from Sherwood,

Little Robin Hood (not Little Robyn, above)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Nerd
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:09 PM

I've been wondering when the "Take the Scorn and wear the horn" verse was added. That's nicked from Shakespeare, and I don't think it was in the song prior to the twentieth century. Anyone know?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Forsh
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:57 PM

Well, I like the Waterson verse, let's call it a folk tradition: the development of a song as it progresses thru time & geography!
I will certainly sing it as the first song of the Clennell Hall Folk Festival Later today!
Great Weather Guarenteed there in Alwinton, sunny Northumberland, come all ye!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 07:44 AM

From "Mighty River of Song". Page 37.

NORMA

We got it from As I Roved Out Peter Kennedy's programme on the Home Service. Lal and I heard somebody singng it there so we never heard the somg as it's sung in Helston. It isn't sung the same. We got the words from somewhere, maybe the Society, maybe Tony Foxworthy, and we sort of remembered the tune as it was by these two old men who sung it on As I Roved Out. We put this tune to thise words but we didn't think it was complete for some reason so our Michael wrote that first verse, "Since Man has been created?". Now people sing it and they think it's part of the Helston song. It's not! In fact we've had people from Helston say "Why do you sing it all wrong?" {Laughter} It was because we didn't know how it was sung basically!"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Little Robyn
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:56 PM

Halanto, jolly rumbello,
We were up long before the day-o
To welcome in the summer, the summer and the may-o,
For summer is a-coming in and winter's gone away-o

The tune is slightly modified to fit those words.
You'd have to ask Norma or Mike who modified the words and why.
They might have found an earlier version in some archives and it might have been that way until the 'folk process' took over. The Padstow May song has changed over the years, only slightly but enough to be noticeable.
But if Mike admits to writing the extra verse, then probably he 'adjusted' the rest of it.
However, we learnt the Waterson version first and it still feels easier to sing.

Robyn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 04:15 AM

How different is the Watersons version and who helped them shape it so?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Little Robyn
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:41 PM

The Waterson version is very singable but isn't the way it's done in Helston.

Halanto, Jolly rumbello,
For we were up as soon as any day-O,
And for to fetch the summer home,
The summer and the may-O,
For summer is a come-O and winter is a-go.

Or is it winter is a-gone-O? I've got both versions stuck in my head now.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:59 AM

Since man was created
his works have been debated
and now are celebrated
the coming of the horn

I learned this from Barry in 1972.

I think it was made up and stuck on the front of the song. It's not on Frost and Fire I don't think

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 01:55 AM

Mike Waterson wrote that verse. It doesn't belong to the Cornish tradition.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Forsh
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 06:46 PM

As I decided to try to find a definitive version to this song, I have trawled the site for threads, However, non appear to mention the verse my dad (Alan Forshaw) and 'Rumbylowe sang:
First Verse:
Since winter was created
his works have been debated
and we have celebrated
the coming of the spring.

Familiar to anyone else?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 04:31 AM

The Hal an Tow is enacted each year at Helston Flora Day (May 8th depending on Sundays and Market days).
If you are in the area make sure you don't miss it. The day starts at 7am with the first Flora Dance and the Hal an Tow begins at 8.30am and continues through the town with the mummers play being enacted at several points.
Marion (Cornwall)

Subject: Lyr Add: HAL AN TOW (in Cornish)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:01 PM

That's interesting as a parody, and I do like the sentiments expressed in the last verse.  We should make it clear, though (so that nobody misunderstands) that the song is Cornish and belongs specifically to an annual, traditional festival (revived in 1930 after a period of quiescence of around 70 years) and so is one of those relatively few songs that still belong to a particular, identifiable community, and perhaps shouldn't be messed around with, out of respect for the people to whose tradition it belongs and who keep it alive.  Here is the translation into Cornish given in Kennedy's book:


HAL-AN-TOW

(Translation into Cornish by Talek and Ylewyth)

Robin Hood ha Jowan Výghan
An dheu res éth dhe 'n fér, O
Ha ný 'wra mós dhe 'n gellywyk wér
Pyth 'wrellons ena dhe výras, O
Rag helghya yorgh, O
Rag helghya yorgh ha da
Hal-an-tow, fest cabúly, O
Rak ný a séf dyworth an tarth a'n jéth, O
Ha rag dhe hedhes Haf dhe dré
An Haf ha 'n spernen wyn, O
Rag Haf üs ow-tós, O
Ha Gwaf üs ow-mós, O.

Pléma an Spanyer-na
A wra fás mar vrás, O?
Y whrons ý dybry an blüven goth
Ha ný a dheber an golýth, O
Yn oll an týryow
Py lé yth yllyn, O.

'Wos Sen Jory an marrek-na
Sen Jory ef o marrek, O
Yn mysk pup oll yn Crystyoneth
Sen Jory yú an gwella, O
Yn oll an týryow
Py lé yth yllyn, O.

Durson' An Mary Moses
Hag oll hý nell ha nerth, O
Ha danvon crés dhyn yn Kernow
Ha déth ha nóswyth ynweth, O
Ha danvon crés dhe Gernow
Ha bys vynary, O.


I still haven't found a way to make long accents ("-" superscript) in .html, so have substituted acute accents; these are not used in Cornish, so shouldn't lead to any confusion, though obviously it's less than ideal.  I can't at present find biographical details for Talek and Ylewyth, but these are their Bardic names, not their real ones.  Both are 20th century.  I mistakenly described the first link I gave above as the DT entry; it is in fact another thread,  lyr and tune Helston Hal an Tow.  The DT entry is here:  Hal An Tow.  The first link is to the English text, verses 1,2,3 and 5 of which are translated into Cornish here.

Malcolm

Subject: Lyr Add: HAAL-ANH-TOH (Ian Hall)
From: Thyme2dream
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:26 PM

(From Calach visiting my babe in Kansas)
Ok, english/cornish wallowers, here's a celtic/gaelic/scottish version, which allowed me to sing it up here and not get pelted with rotten vegetables by an angry anti-southern mob!!!!
Haal-Anh-Toh
By Ian Hall

You'll take no scorn to wear the horn,
It called the clans 'fore you were born.
Your father's father wore it,
And your father wore it too.

What happened to the Romans?
They conquered brave and bold-O
But they couldn't bowl us over,
And they couldn't stand the cold-O

Haal an toh, jolly rumballo,
We were up, long before the day-O
To welcome in the summer time;
To welcome in the day-O
For summer is a comin' in,
And winter's gone away.

We thank the old brave Ossian
Who killed the forest beast-O.
We roasted it and salted it
And bade him join the feast-O.

What happened to the Danish,
As the shores they tried to reach-O.
We watched them sailing on the sea.
And fought them on the beach-O.

We wear the eagles feathers,
And boast of Alba's might-O
And with our brother Albion,
Grant peace by day and night-O.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 01:22 PM

The most useful references here are, in the Database (Digital Tradition):

Helston Hal an Tow

and in past discussions in the Forum:

Lyr Req: Hal n Toe
Hal An Tow: notes?
Want first verse to Hal an Tow

The Cornish text given in Kennedy's book is a modern translation into Cornish of the traditional English-language song.  There isn't a great deal of variation in the song because it's associated with a specific place and annual event; only in recent years has it been sung (by revival performers) outside of its traditional context.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 11:23 PM

If you were to type hal an tow into the rather obvious "Digitrad and Forum Search" box on the main Forum page, there's a pretty good chance that you would find some useful information.  That's what search engines are for.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 07:35 PM

This is when I really wish I had a scanner...

Robin Hood ha Jowan Vyghan
An dheu res eth dhe n fer O
Ha ny wra mos dhe n gellywyk wer
Pyth wrellons ena dhe vyras O

Sorry, but I'm giving up on this. If you have a really good reason for knowing this in Cornish by tomorrow I'll help. Otherwise buy the book that I mentioned above. It gives pronounciation advice too.

The book gives a bit about the history, basically concluding that no-one knows the origin. There's a reference as early as 1660 to 'Haile an Taw'

Sorry for not helping more, but typing Cornish for a stranger on a Friday night, well I have to draw the line somewhere...

Ed

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: GUEST,Obloquy67
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 07:13 PM

Yes, I meant Lyric Database. I thought there were some foreign (to me) lyrics out there, and thought they were Irish, but they must have been the Cornish ones. A transcription would be appreciated. Do you know the possible dates of origin of the song, as well? thanks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: GUEST,Zebedee (at his dad's house)
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 07:05 PM

LDB? does that mean the Digital Tradition Lyric Database or something else?

As far as I know Hal-An_Tow is a Cornish song. I'm not sure why there would be any Gaelic lyrics.

Peter Kennedy's 'Folksongs of Britain and Ireland' gives the lyrics in the original Cornish. I can transcribe those if you're interested

Ed

Subject: alt. verses to Hal An Tow
From: GUEST,Obloquy67
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 06:18 PM

Anyone know any, besides the ones in the LDB? Esp. Irish/Gaelic, with pronunciation help? Thanks so much.