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As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn?
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Subject: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Hawker Date: 18 Feb 01 - 01:27 PM I was sat in church with my children this morning and we sang 3 hymns. The third was The Lord's My Shepherd.... and I found myself thinking it is a shame that this hymn is oh so often saved for funerals, I prefer to sing it to Crimmond than the usual chuch version, but it is a lovely hymn. I would be hard pushed to pick a favourite, but I love... There is a green hill far away Brightest and best and MOST of the Christmas carols! What about you lot out there..... What is your favourite hymn? (You don't have to conform to a religion to like hymns!) Happy Sunday, Lucy |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: nutty Date: 18 Feb 01 - 01:36 PM My great-grandmother taught me " The Old Rugged Cross " which I still love although it isn't heard very often these days "Morning is Broken" never fails to bring joy to my heart but the hymns that gave me my love of harmonies, are probably the non-conformist ones - such as " And Can It Be" and "Blessed Assurance" |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Sarah2 Date: 18 Feb 01 - 01:39 PM I still love that Anglican children's hymn, "The Saints of God."
I sing a song of the saints of God ...etc. (It's in the DT, I see.) Sarah |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: nutty Date: 18 Feb 01 - 01:40 PM The Hymn I most love to sing with children has to be THE MAGIC PENNY |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: bflat Date: 18 Feb 01 - 01:55 PM Nutty, if you feel The Magic Penny is a hymn then okay. It was a song written by Malvena Reynolds. I'm no scholar but I doubt it was intended for an audience of children which it certainly has become popularly used among. Two of my favorites are Quaker Hymns: How Can I Keep From Singing and Simple Gifts. Ellen |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Sourdough Date: 18 Feb 01 - 01:55 PM Faith of Our Fathers and Lead on Oh, King Eternal |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Matt_R Date: 18 Feb 01 - 02:15 PM On Eagles Wings Come To The One What Can Seperate Us? You Are Not Alone |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: nutty Date: 18 Feb 01 - 02:16 PM Now that, bflat, is another question -I would not attempt to give a definition of "a hymn" |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Katcina Date: 18 Feb 01 - 02:19 PM In The Garden My Grandma sang it to me when I was little and it still frequently runs through my mind. KatC |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Linda Kelly Date: 18 Feb 01 - 02:37 PM How great thou art and I vow to thee my country (which for someone as unpatriotic as me is a little bizarre, but my brother had it at his weddng and it brings back memories) |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Hawker Date: 18 Feb 01 - 02:39 PM Yep, Love a lot of what has been said myself, and when you start thinking, theres loads (bit like traditional songs really - which they are of a fashion!) Blessed Quietness is another God's Railroad to heaven is another - the tune is the same as Union Miners - and the reference to railroads gives you its age! God's aeroplane is Good fun too Let the light from the lighthouse.... Help!!!I could be here all night!!!! Jerusalem has to be favourite too Oh, and I vow to thee my country Defining a hymn may be a touchy subject! my old man has said the one we knew someone would.....it the opposite to a her (yawn) |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Banjer Date: 18 Feb 01 - 03:58 PM Its hard to pick a favorite! I like most all the gospel hymns, and some that aren't considered church music. One of the latter that jumps readily to mind is Reno & Smiley's 'I'm Using My Bible For A Roadmap' |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: GUEST,Annette Date: 18 Feb 01 - 04:48 PM My favourite is may be not a hymn, but the song with "And we shall build Jerusalem, on Englands green and pastured land". |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 18 Feb 01 - 04:59 PM It's Jerusalem, and it's Englands green and pleasant land. My favourite for all sorts of reasons, the main being it's high and loud - Guide me O thou great Redeemer/Jehovah - to Cywm Rhondda. Had it at my wedding, my daughter's christening, my father's funeral, it just fits so many things. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: GUEST,guestguestguest(intruder)pagan Date: 18 Feb 01 - 07:27 PM love church music, hate church... have to put it this way... Amazing Grace Gaudete and that St Patrick song that goes... "hibernia's champion saint all hail, with fadeless glory crowned" and i have been know to celebrate St Swithin's day, april 14 |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: R! Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:08 PM Pange Lingua and Tantum Ergo have always been favorites of mine. I love the sound of Latin hymns. Jerusalem is good, too. Reen |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: GUEST,kendall Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:28 PM Let The Lower Lights Be Burning |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Lanfranc Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:53 PM "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind", sung to CHH Parry's beautiful tune "Repton". "My song is Love Unknown", words by Samuel Crossman (1624-83), setting by John Ireland. IMHO one of the most exquisite marriages of words and music in existence. "Just as I am", to the tune used in "Olivet to Calvary"
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Matt_R Date: 18 Feb 01 - 09:01 PM Oops, it's called "The Love of God", not "What Can Seperate Us". |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Bill D Date: 18 Feb 01 - 09:09 PM "The Halleuja Side"..."Only Remembered".."Will There Be Any Stars in My Crown"....."The White Pilgram"...."Beulah Land"...."Almost Home"....."Gathering Flowers for the Master's Bouquet"..."Meeting in the Air"...."Cabin in the Corner of Gloryland"... and almost anything by Mrs C.S. Morris...Pentacostal shouting and marching at its best! |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: GUEST, WYSIWYG Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:36 PM Here is the beginning of a wonderful journey through the land of hymnody, not so long ago:
Or in case my clicky failed, paste this URL into your browser: This went to a part Two, and there should be a clicky on to it from the above. Maybe someone will go back into Part Two and add a clicky that comes to this thread, for people to use later on when searching hymn threads. BTW, I was called "Praise" back then but have since had a name change that changed my post entries retroactively. Have fun! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Burke Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:48 PM Refer to the old thread for mine. Most of what I sing is hymns or 'spiritual songs' Neither How can I keep from Singing or Simple Gifts are Quaker Hymns. Simple Gifts is a Shaker song. How can I keep from Singing is words by Anne Steele late 1860's with music by Robert Lowry. Lowry's compositions can be found in many evangelical hymnals. The attribution to the Quakers was a mix up by Pete Seeger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: alison Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:37 PM Be thou my vision, and St Pat's breastplate "Christ be in me, Christ within me....." slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:59 AM "Lord of all Hopefulness," which is sung to the tune of "Be Thou My Vision." I dearly love gospel music because it's so much fun to sing, but I have trouble with the theology behind it - so I'm on a crusade to ban it from our Catholic parish. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: nutty Date: 19 Feb 01 - 04:07 AM Joe - I would love you to explain that last comment as I have real difficulty in understanding. The "THEOLOGY" behind Gospel Music????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Llanfair Date: 19 Feb 01 - 04:40 AM I'm not a churchgoing christian, but "Jerusalem" gets my vote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: InOBU Date: 19 Feb 01 - 10:35 AM The one that stands out in my childhood is... to the tune of Oh Taninbaum... The workers flag, is deepest red, |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: LR Mole Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:04 AM Psul Theroux in "Saint Jack" has a British funeral in Singapore and mentions how important it is to trill the "r"'s in "Jerusalem":Brrrring me my bow /of burning gold/ Brrring me my arrrows of desire..." Emerson, Lake and Palmer did a nice reading of that. Personally, though, I'm fond of Gregorian chant, a thing not heard in church any more. Kumbaya, my tuchus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:10 AM Mole, d'ya know about Taize? ~S~ |
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Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: CHATTER WITH THE ANGELS From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 01 - 12:31 PM CHATTER WITH THE ANGELS (spiritual)(/I> (F)Chatter with the angels soon in the mornin' Chatter with the angels in (C7) that (F)land. Chatter with the angels soon in the mornin' Chatter with the angels-- join (C7)that (F)band. I hope to (Bb)join that band and (F)Chatter with the angels all (C7)day (F)long! I hope to (Bb)join that band and (F)Chatter with the angels all (C7)day (F)long! This is all there is in the Wee Sing book I got it from. (Melody's there too, see children's bookstore.) Don't see why it could not grow more verses-- called verse and response. Singin' with the angels soon in the mornin' Singin' with the angels in that land. Singin' with the angels soon in the mornin' Singin' with the angels-- join that band. I hope to join that band, be Singin' with the angels all day long! I hope to join that band, be Singin' with the angels all day long! Praisin' Dancin' Prayin' Laughin' Workin' Lovin' Thinkin' Study Flyin' Marchin' *G* And I guess if we want to drive the chariot and swing low, we bes' be drivin' with the angels too. It's zippy, in 4/4, with lotsa dotted notes to swing the rhythm. Gret for clappin'.... oops, clappin' with the angels... ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: LR Mole Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:04 PM Taize? My people called it corn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:25 PM Mole, LOL! But do you? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: mousethief Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:40 PM And could it be that I should gain an interest in the Savior's blood? Died he for me who caused his pain? For me, who him to death pursued? Alex
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: DougR Date: 19 Feb 01 - 05:54 PM "Beautiful Saviour," (some hymnals would have it as "Fairiest Lord Jesus") "Amazing Grace," "Abide With Me," "Oh God Our Help In Ages Past" DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Hardiman the Fiddler Date: 19 Feb 01 - 06:47 PM "The Day thou gavest, Lord is ended." Hardiman |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: mousethief Date: 19 Feb 01 - 06:56 PM Also "Harvest Home" -- esp. as sung by Steeleye. Amazing Grace of course. "I know that my redeemer lives." Holy HOly HOly. All hail the power of Jesus' name (the tune in the IVCF Hymns III hymnal, not the traditional tune).
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Penny S. Date: 19 Feb 01 - 06:59 PM I don't know whether I put it in the other threads, but a family favourite is "Thine be the Glory," which my Dad first heard in Belgium during the war, as "A Toi la Gloire, Jesu resutit(?)". We had it at my mother's funeral. I was delighted to hear it on the radio last Sunday - until I heard that the words were entirely different - de-Thou'd and no longer to the Risen Conquering Son. A disappointment (tho' I had sometimes wondered whether Mithras was involved somewhere!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Burke Date: 19 Feb 01 - 07:31 PM A de-Thou'd hymn, not Lutheran by any chance? It looks like Cyber Hymanal has it the way you like it. Thine is (be) the glory Joe, don't try a blanket ban on the gospel hymns, some of them are probably fine. On a individual basis look at them & point out to the priest, or whoever makes the decision, how they are incompatable with Catholic theology (if they are). |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 01 - 07:42 PM Well dang Hardi, then how come you ain't home yet? *G* ~Your Best Wife |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 19 Feb 01 - 07:44 PM I've always liked "Turn Back, O Man, Foreswear Thy Foolish Ways" as a classic example of the kind of misdirected, condescending and contrived sanctimony used by one group of people to round up and control another. And I love the music and primitive tribal feelings of well-done hymns. But for the most part, I can't get myself to like 'em in practice, because they screw up children's heads. Not something I feel should be done. Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Burke Date: 19 Feb 01 - 08:08 PM Amos, given that the number of hymns runs into the thousands, that's an awfully blanket condemnation. There are hymns I don't particularly like but there are lots of other songs can screw kids heads up too. There are good hymns as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 19 Feb 01 - 08:20 PM By gar, yer right. It is a blanket condemnation. I should limit it for the sake of clarity to those hymns, often Christian, which require small children to construct visions of the universe for which they will be unable to find any evidence in experience and which require them to subscribe to paradigms whose sole relevance is authoritarian decree or mass unthinking agreement. That's the kind I meant. Not all of them. My apologies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 01 - 09:11 PM Amos, what does it tell you that for three threads' worth of posts now people have been sharing something they have experienced as positive? Do you think that any of that positivity might have been an experience that began in their childhoods? Do you ever ask Christian children what they are experiencing? Do you know any parents actively engaged in Christian parenting? (Mudcatter Susan in California is in your area BTW.) This would not be the place to ask kids what they experience, or hook up with a great number of parents, I suspect, who would want to get into this-- you'd need one on one contact with people who pratice their faith in this way that seems so harmful to you. And an open, inquiring mind-- I know from our friendship that you already have that. Just wondering, though, what is your basis for those evaluations? And what would be the purpose for coming into a thread where people are sharing their love for something, to condemn it? Then, you seem to have said several different things-- first, that some hymns are OK, but then that how they are used makes them wrong-- so in practice they are all wrong.... but then your second post sets a limit of some sort that is not specified-- I don't get it. ~Susan |
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Subject: ADD: The Master's Bouquet From: Bill D Date: 19 Feb 01 - 09:12 PM ok now, Amos...sing along with me: *grin*.(I can't help sort of agreeing with you, and I can't help singing this either, 'cause it sounds so nice on autoharp)... I usually sing it only among adults who have already decided what their view of the universe is, however, so I doubt I mess up anyone's mind. THE MASTER'S BOUQUET Death is an angel sent down from above Sent for the buds of the flowers we love Truly it's so for in Heaven's own way Each soul is a flower in the Master's bouquet
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 19 Feb 01 - 09:18 PM Hell, Bill, I'll sing it with you, if I can play my autoharp along with you. I'm electric, BTW, are you? I'll take the rhythm part. And sing high harmony. What key? ~Susan (waving bye bye....)
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Bill D Date: 19 Feb 01 - 09:46 PM key of G...(you'll notice I keep my face stern and eyes straight ahead, so's I don't give anyone the idea I'm taking the imagery seriously...*grin*) (Bok, Trickett & Muir once introduced a song called "The Middle Class Life is the Best of All" by saying......"you don't have to believe everything you sing" |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 19 Feb 01 - 09:51 PM Well, sing on, ye lambs and chattel. I sure enjoy the music, make no mistake. Good thing you don't have to believe everything you sing! Master's bouquet, indeed! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Pete M Date: 19 Feb 01 - 10:06 PM I'm with Amos on this. Now there are a lot of hymns, Christian and other, that are fantastically enjoyable songs; but if we are going to agonise over wether or not to expose children to songs about foxhunting because our agricultural systems have evolved to a point where this is no longer an survival issue for the country worker, and our belief system to the point where we can appreciate that we have responsibilities for the well being of other living creatures and that they were not put on this earth by some god or other for our exploitation; surely it is far more important to consider the underlying concepts behaind the majority of hymns. Now I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should or should not believe, nor what they should or should not sing, but to suggest that because children enjoy what they experience and are 'positive' about it misses the point entirely. We could all bring to mind regimes and belief systems which have cynically exploited the ability to mould the minds of children from the Jesuits to the various factions currently using children as assault troops in central Africa. Having said all that Crimmond, Cwm Rhonnda, and the Evening hymn and last post played as part of Sunset can all bring a lump to my throat in the right conditions. Pete M |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: GUEST,mgarvey@pacifier.com Date: 19 Feb 01 - 10:14 PM Tantum Ergo and O Salutaris. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 19 Feb 01 - 10:15 PM "Good feelings" about mythology do not an effective and compassionate civilization make. Clear, self-powered thinking and self-reliance produce the strength from which people can afford to be open and compasdsionate with each other. I have a vivid memory of a film showing a young boy, blonde haired and earnest, wearing a uniform shirt and neckerchief and lederhosen, singing "The Future Belongs To Me" at the top of his lungs with rest of his jungbunde, and the joy the boys took is singing together was wholesome and charming. Whoesome and charming until you added a more experienced perspective and realized what the said jungbunde was. I am not drawing a parallel between religous training and the Youth Corps; but I am saying that the fact that they may enjoy the experience is not a metric of much value. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Matt_R Date: 19 Feb 01 - 10:31 PM Well I didn't know any of these kinds of songs until last year. So no messed up childhood here. And I don't call 'em "hymns" either...I just call them songs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Bill D Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:00 PM ...um...Pete M?? THE Pete M?, that is, N.Z. Pete M?...is that you? It's been over a year.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Pete M Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:16 PM Hi Bill, yes 'tis I. I plead insanity and occasionally having to work for a living, but I have not been keeping in contact regularly. I hope I'll be around for a bit again now. trouble is the 'Cat is so damn compulsive I get sidetracked from work too easily! best wishes Pete M PS we should be getting near book sale time again, I keep an eye out for more Footrot Flat books. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: cowboypoet Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:34 PM On the traditional side, "Whispering hope, "O how welcome thy voice, "Making my heart "In its sorrow rejoice." I used to sing the descant while my Granddad sang the melody. He built a church for a small congregation once, because he got tired of their holding prayer meetings in Grandma's parlor. People thought he built it because he loved God, but I think it was more because he loved Grandma. And privacy. On the non-traditional side, "When He Offers His Hand" by Townes Van Zandt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Bill D Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:40 PM well, Pete...glad to see you!...(compulsive?..naawwww...I can quit Mudcat anytime...have done it twice a day for several years!)... (I'll figure out a nice trade for FootRot flats books..or maybe there is something you crave from this part of the world..) |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Benjamin Date: 19 Feb 01 - 11:50 PM My favorte hymn would be "Rock of Ages". "Precious Lord" is another nice one I enjoy singing. Nothing beats a great soul singer singing a gospel tune. Thank you Al Green! |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 20 Feb 01 - 08:16 PM Amos - that German boy singing sounds awfully like a scene from the film of Cabaret..... set in Germany of the early 1930's. And it translates as 'Tomorrow belongs to me'. St Patrick's Breastplate - I bind unto myself today, the strong name of the Trinity - known as Paddy's Vest, and converts to a brilliant triple jig. Had that at my daughter's christening too. Seemed appropriate somehow.... LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Burke Date: 20 Feb 01 - 10:41 PM Amos, thanks so much for clarifying your statement. I think I get it now & think I tend to agree. Music in general is just much to dangerous. I think the only solution is that we have to ban them from listening to any kind of music entirly until they have reached the age of disgression. Say, 21 or so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Michael in Swansea Date: 21 Feb 01 - 08:30 AM How Great Thou Art and For Those In Peril On The Sea Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Feb 01 - 11:07 AM It's very interesting. Amos did not address my questions (because they were the wrong ones, for him), but in e-mail someone has shared with me their personal recollection of harms related to what Amos said. And I am listening closely, because people who have been harmed in the name of religion have seldom spoken so clearly and responsibly to me about it. Oh I listen to it all. This time I can actually HEAR. Those of us who never experienced those harms-- it's unimaginable until you hear the story of one who did experience it, and extrapolate from there to the empty pews. How would those who avoid the pews like ther plague know it's any different from what they experienced? I suppose it's equally unimaginable, unless we who have not been harmed tell our stories as personally and hearably as my dear correspondent wrote to me. Thanks, Amos, for raising all this, whether you meant to, or not. When I read your post I must admit that I felt for a moment like you'd never heard a word I'd said. Now I realize it was I who had the burden of hearing, this time, and I have. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 21 Feb 01 - 11:32 AM Aww shucks, WYSIWG, thanks for the other-cheek! :>) As for banningmusic I think it is an AWFUL idea! Absobloody AWRFUL! The problem is never with the music. The problem lies in the bonding of highly beautiful media with cognitively problematic postulates and reality-structures. Military music has a similar problem -- it is stirring and emotionally exciting, but the cognitive freight is sometimes a bit much -- the glory of the fatherland justifies the death of its enemies at our hands, taraaataraaa! Metaphysics can be a very entangling subject, I am sure we all agree. And if you are wrestling with a metaphysics which doesn't align with your own observation, then you are kinda corraled into a philosophical schizophrenia. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: LR Mole Date: 21 Feb 01 - 11:54 AM Gawd, what a place this is. As the four moptops said (in a good hymn itself, I think),All Together Now... |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Feb 01 - 12:21 PM Yesz, Amosz, they call me Moon because I'sze szuch a shining exszample. I think the main thing (one of them) is that feelingsz are not a reliable guide to action. The poszitivity I referred to, the sztirring you refer to, all dat sztuff-- isz confuszed with what we call feelings. Without being governed by judgment and intentionality and all that other good sztuff whut is we loaded with asz human beansz, isszz gonna get messszzy. Or worsze, meszszszszszszszyyyyyy. I waszn't talking about feelingsz, in my Questionsz to Ponderificate, tho I can szee how they may have szeemed to be the szubject. Why the z's szome of you may you aszk? Oh that'ss juszt my way of szaying thesze thingsz may be hard to hear clearly and a bit fusszzy asz they are tosszzed acrosszz a line of communitycation. *G* Szee? *G* Claro que szi. ~Szuszan |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: mousethief Date: 21 Feb 01 - 01:13 PM God forbid we should allow parents to raise their children in their own religion. This is surely not what the framers of the Constitution had in mind. Perhaps, Amos, you would like it if all the kids were taken off into some sort of camp and raised with some sort of God-neutral programming? Every worldview is a mythology. Yours too. It is the intrinsic right of parents -- in the USA at least -- to raise their kids into their own mythology. It is seriously wrong to try to take this right away from them, as you appear to propose. This is the route all dictatorships tend toward -- such as the Nazis you dragged into the conversation. Raising up kids to denounce their parents' mythology -- that is what the Jugendband did. That's what the Soviet youth brigade did. It's just not the American way. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Penny S. Date: 21 Feb 01 - 03:49 PM Thanks for the link to Thine be the Glory - actually, I have a secret stash of Songs of Praise and Congregational Praise for my own use - it worries me to know that there are children growing up without access to the original poetic versions, though. Penny Oh, and Hi Pete! |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: GUEST,Pete M at work Date: 21 Feb 01 - 08:03 PM 'God forbid we should allow parents to raise their children in their own religion.' Here, here, Mousetheif. This would not only solve my objections, but a lot of the worlds problems. By all means tell your children about your religion but have the good grace to say that its what some people believe but that the majority of people don't. If they want to believe in fairies or syrens or any other mystical being when they can make up their own minds, that's fine. By all means teach them ethics, which are demonstably universal constructs of the human condition, and teach them to question everything. And before anyone asks, yes I do practice what I preach, you don't get much more agnostic than me (In my book atheism is as much religion as any other) but one of my sons is now a committed Christian - entirely his choice, and we niether encouraged nor discouraged him. Pete M |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 21 Feb 01 - 08:22 PM Well, you gotta examine the ramifications of a system change as fundamental as laying in a religous structure. Well it is easy to say that all viewpoints are bonded to some mythology or other, that may be only marginally accurate. There is a great deal of difference, for example, between approaching the unknowns of the universe by extrapolation and speculation, a committment to the discovery of new insights, and a willingness to explore many viewpoints vice approaching the unknowns of the universe with a position of compliance, perpetuation of recieved truisms, a reluctance to compare and contrasts experiential and experimental data, and a desire to adhere to solutions because they reduce confusion whether or not they can be verified through any heuristic process. These are very different approaches. If your influence in educating another being is significant, as it usually is with a parent, for example, then you have a responsibility to examine the impact on the whole system of your influence. A strong moral code, for example, often provides stability and strength during maturation. On the other hand, being provided key data on the basis of authoritarian sources as the only rationale, tends to lessen the strength of the being in being able to see and think clearly. A person who senses that he has the right to find out, to reach, inspect, explore and view the universe first hand will tend (other things being equal) to have a keener intellect and a more rapid analytical ability than one who has been taught that some parts of the universe are beyond reach, beyond question, and beyond knowing. Especially if those parts are presented as being EXTREMELY important. The notion that the most important element in the universe is not only invisible, silent, only approachable through certain acquired behaviours, and at the same time is INTENSELY interested in your sexual pecadilloes adds up to an absurdity. Yet it is not uncommon for this mixture of beliefs to be presented as certain truth by some parents in our culture. While this is an extreme case, perhaps, the elements of reason vs. unreason are detectable in much lesser cases. That said, it is of course none of my business what lessons transpire between a parent and huis or her child, even if they are highly aberrative and disabling lessons -- unless of course the child happens to grow up in my sector of the Universe and happens through tortuous machinations to get elected President or something. Come to think of it.... Regards, Amos |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Amos Date: 21 Feb 01 - 09:49 PM And since it is about time I actually spoke to the topic of the thread rather than git all spun up about it, my favorite partial hymn is: Abide with me, I need thy presence 3. Swift to it's close
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: Stewie Date: 21 Feb 01 - 10:41 PM I'm a lapsed-catholic/agnostic who was educated by the Jesuits. We had to sing a hymn about Ignatius of Loyola that began 'Thou whose grand heroic story'. Does anyone know its title? It was a real belter - even better than my other favourite 'Faith of Our Fathers'. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Feb 01 - 12:14 AM Well, Amos, if I can sing through tears, I'll do that one for you. But only if I can catch Hardi at home with the violin at a mutually convenient time. So you can hear how we do it in church. All year long, we often close Saturday night's come-as-you-are service in the big old church, with this dear old hymn. We always seem to see the same thing when we do this one-- people leave replete with calm joy, saying little but looking much. It has been a poignant part of fall's season turn past harvest, when you can smell leaves on the ground all soft with the beating rain. It's very sweet in the winter, when the old people have braved icy winds to walk by gaslight and to gather near hissing steam heat with us. It's lovely in the spring as darkness settles songbirds to sleep just outside the finally-open favrile windows. But I think you'd like it most especially as the service closes in the summer dusk, with the big oak doors open to the Green just out front and the courthouse just beyond. People strolling in the park (tourists visiting the Wynken, Blynken, and Nod fountain centering the Green) often are drawn up the high steps to ponder the sweep of the space of our church. When I warm up before the service, that old-timey autoharp sound you've heard goes all the way out across the Green with my good Crate amp, and in those acoustics I don't sound half bad either. (Especially when I think no one is listening but God and strangers!) In come the ladies in soft flowing summer dresses, and their fresh-shaved, chino'd spouses-- on vacation and soaking up our little, old-fashioned, sweet town-- holding hands. Heck, you can even sing along iffen yew's a mind to. } : ~ *> = [Christ's peace], ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: LR Mole Date: 22 Feb 01 - 09:50 AM On the way to work this morning, "Now Be Thankful" by Fairport fell out. Be nice to hear that in a church. |
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Subject: RE: BS: As it is Sunday...Favourite Hymn? From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Feb 01 - 10:40 AM How's it go, Mole? I'll do it if I can learn it. ~S~ |
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